One of the great things about Magic is it escapes the other brands out there, allowing but not forcing them to be used. Godzilla was done extremely tastefully, with very little negative comments outside of preference - if players didn't want the promos, they could use the regular variants and they certainly didn't need to be purchased in a limited window product only available in limited languages and regions. I think the reaction here is warranted because we saw what happened when it was muted - Wizards kept pushing the power level of buy-a-box promos to sell more boxes, until they went too far and printed Nexus of Fate which was so powerful it needed to get banned, and still hasn't been reprinted. Having to play a trademarked Walking Dead character to compete in Magic is crossing a line, and even if the reaction is a bit hyperbolic, it may be necessary to avoid this continuing with other brands.
Thalia in regular print costs about $7, so you are getting at least $28 value for a $30 product with a full playset.
It's tempting to look at Lair based on current value. Thalia has already dropped to $5 for NM copies on TCG in advance of this printing. Foils can now be found for around $10. This set is doubling the number of printings/versions from 4 to 8, so should expect to see significant drops in existing inventory as a result even with a limited print run - especially given the heads up to anyone interested in buying.
Encourage anyone thinking about Lairs in terms of current market value to go back and look at card prices before and after printings. Similar to other reprints existing cards take a huge beating with these things.
Secret Lair is what is known as a “short window print to order” product. It requires having a single uniform ordering point, otherwise there’s no way to monitor the time cut-off. Also, with print to order, you want a single uniform shipping point. In addition, we want the product to get to as many players as possible (and yes, we’re working on the global reach issues) and many players do not have easy access to a local game store.
Local game stores are very important to us and we’re making more products than ever sold through local game stores, but not every product works cleanly through them, Secret Lair being a good example. It’s just logistically and financially unviable.
I agree the traditional model of semi-predictable booster boxes / etc won't work with LGS stores on print-to-order. But who says we have to use a traditional model? This isn't the only industry challenged with this lately. Recent online ordering from retailers like Target/Walmart/HomeDepot are adapting where you can order inventory online and schedule it for pickup at a local location where it is not already in stock. It provides the best of online (per-buyer) ordering and retail pick-up without the messy retailer guess-logic on inventory management.
Imagine for a second LGSs were treated as Secret Lair distribution centers, and when ordering you could select an approved LGS of your choice, potentially with a perk for doing so like reduced cost, a promo planeswalker, etc. The LGS gets a bulk shipment representing actual orders, and buyers have a reason to give them some foot traffic. I would personally use this option if it was available, because it gives me the flexibility of dropping by the store when it works for me, rather than worrying about not being home with an expensive package shows up.
Wizards could give a small kickback to the store for the saved bulk shipping cost. Just a thought!
Agree with Stoogeslap here - it is worth the investment even though even though it'll slow your process down during a period of uncertainty with the reserved list. You are also competing with big stores where buy lists have plummeted for these duals, so it's a hard market right now. Another investment is a very good scanner - show up close scans front and back on ebay to dispel fears of counterfeit cards.
Yes, becoming more common with commander. A few decks will have multiple commanders so you have to sleeve things around a bit to switch, and in the rare event you agree to tuck it into your library you'd have to exchange the sleeve. But worth it in my opinion and rare for most decks.
Here are a couple options (search on Amazon)
"N E W Professional Holographic Matte White 100 Pack Card Deck Protector Sleeves Precise Fit for MTG Pokemon and More!"
These look interesting and cause the commander to pop a bit without being unreadable.
I personally like a classic KMC Hyper Matte in Silver. I've been looking for better holographic or reflective / foil looking sleeves, but aside from some anime artwork options haven't found anything nice yet.
As the full paper value of this is ~$130 and contains mostly sub $1 cards, it may be hard to get approx value from this set. Also note that Mountains are not legal for a Colorless commander, so in this case you would need to replace those with Wastes - which would bump up the cost of this deck by ~$25-$30 depending on where you can find them. But if you went through the effort of replacing those, I think it would sell a bit higher.
If in doubt, put an auction up in eBay and give it a longer duration (maybe a 14 or 30 day auction). If multiple collectors see it and find this highly desired, you'll fetch a good price.
Did you record you opening the return package? If so you will have at least some evidence backing up that the buyer did not return the item purchased. It is hard to be protected by this, but possible.
Ah so this must be what the FedEx notification I just saw is for. Doesn't look like I'll see this until next Wed but will post if it's different than what's been shared already.
Like the artwork but the halfway between extended Mythic Edition planeswalkers and regular border looks odd for some - the tops of the non-legends look awkward to have some of the background but then fades away into the extended art. Should have cropped the background color near the title box and had the extended art bleed through all the way. Temporal manipulation for example just looks odd. Also they should have gone with new art all around - such a pleasure to see some of these!
Heard back from customer service, and received a unique URL that allowed me to place the order (limited to just 1 box instead of 2). I received a notification the package was sent, and expect to receive it in the coming week. This is consistent with other customer reports, and they followed up with text messaging updates to confirm shipment. I'll report back if something falls apart, otherwise will close this experience. I think they stepped up a bit after a total failure the day of.
UPDATE/EDIT 10/07/2018:
While I still have not heard back after emailing them about my order, they have posted another link to a specific support page for those in the same situation. I've done the same and will report back. Hope this info helps.
ORIGINAL POST 10/03/2018:
What a nightmare today was for WotC and the Mythic Edition.
If you’ve experienced an issue with Hasbro ToyShop today, please email CustomerService@HasbroToyShop.com. Affected customers may also be contacted directly. Hasbro phone lines are closing down for the night, and responses might not come till tomorrow morning.
Reports from callers who spoke with customer service rumor that they will re-check orders that partially went through (were charged or got an order number but no email or order showing in their history, or multiple orders made by mistake due to errors shown) to try and confirm existing orders. I'm in that camp and will post an update once I hear back from customer service.
To recap the festival of failure today (all times PST):
08:00AM: WotC Tweet confirms Mythic edition would go on sale in 1 hour. No link to the item page, confusion noted in replies as some see it in Exclusive section, others see it only when searching, some can't find it at all or the page goes blank after loading.
09:01-9:19AM: Site becomes unresponsive for many, everyone sees Sold Out or Out of Stock on item page.
09:19AM: WotC Tweet announces the site is having problems reflecting inventory, and is not yet for sale or sold out. No time or estimate is given when the problem will be addressed.
09:25AM: Item page is updated with new text replacing Out of Stock to read "Available 10/04". Many give up on trying to order confusing this to mean available to order on 10/04, meaning it will no longer be available to order today.
09:45AM: Item goes on sale.
09:51AM: WotC Tweet confirms Mythic edition is now for sale. Site immediately becomes unresponsive for many trying to order.
09:52AM-10:45AM: Hundreds of replies to above tweets confirm a complete meltdown of every order process step. Errors trying to load the page, add the item to the cart, credit card payment errors, cart order errors, cards charged multiple times as buyers try to confirmations by refreshing
payment screen errors. Around 10:45 reports of the item being shown as Sold Out appear.
11:38AM: Almost an hour after the product is sold out WotC Tweet confirms that the item is sold out.
04:18PM: After 5 hours of tweets from customers being hung up on after hour+ hold times with customer service, unable to live chat, not responses over email, and in some cases thousands of dollars in charges to their card, WotC Tweet confirms they are aware of "issues with the HasbroToyShop site for fans ordering #MTGGRN Mythic Edition".
05:06PM: Now deleted, a tweet advises customers to call in to speak with customer service regarding their order. Customer service closes at 5:00PM.
05:38PM: Final tweet advises customers to contact service via Email and expect responses in the morning.
Some of this was to be expected. But even I was surprised at the level of missteps on both the treatment of financial information without reliable confirmations of orders, and the lack of timely and accurate tweets leaving so many fans frustrated with the experience. I hope WotC learns from this - unlike many of the tweets I do support direct distribution models with household limits in addition to LGS perks. But not like this.... not like this. LGS could have done a better job on this one.
Would be great if they aligned this card so the top was similar to the actual card - having the CMC and title further down the card makes it more awkward to manage with the rest of your hand, or gives the opponent more information that it's there
As the owner of a TCGPlayer store, I can promise you we all aren't alike. =) But for some stores it is mostly honest mistakes - they just aren't keeping track of exact sets very well. Note you can immediately reach out to a seller after a purchase, and the store front makes it really hard to not check messages before filling orders, so if you reach out to make sure they confirm exact set, you can hopefully avoid some refund/return delays.
On inventory issues, it again sometimes happens when a retail store lists the same card online, and if they aren't matching up online inventory with retail sales diligently, this can happen - they discover they are missing a card only when someone buys it from their online store.
Look for ratings and feedback on sellers - this will spot sellers than are closely monitoring their online inventory, card conditions, shipping cards on time, etc.
Judge Promos have been hit or miss - depending on both their desirability and likelihood in being reprinted later on.
Unfortunately Wizards continues to show disregard for artwork significance, for example the recent Battlebond reprint of Land Tax which up until now was only featured on the Judge Promo. The watermark will still be unique but in my opinion these types of identical artwork reprints lead me to stay away from Judge promos (and for that matter all pricey promo cards), unless for other reasons we think they will be unique.
The promos that are relatively safe pickups are the ones on the reserve list, such as Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune,
Survival of the Fittest, Gaea's Cradle, Intuition, Thawing Glaciers, Natural Order, Phyrexian Dreadnought, etc - especially as some will be the only printing with new borders, thanks to the loophole they used for a few years with Judge Promos and FTV sets.
Yes, you could make a case for the unique cards, example the old border promos, the Elesh Norn with alternate font, or the basic land set done a few years back. But these are not guaranteed - I could see them doing a Masters set one year with old borders as a throw back - and using the exact same art as many of the judge promos. Noble Hierarch would plummet in value overnight if that occurred, so anyone that bought a $300 copy would not be happy.
Even if they choose alternate art, the reprint quantity and style hugely affects, for example Wasteland was close to $300 at one point, and then they reprinted it twice within a year - both new art but same border style - in eternal masters and another judge promo. The original Judge Promo now sits at less than $100.
So unless the card is really unique, you believe it still stay unique, or is on the reserved list, I would stay away from Judge Promos as a collectible / investment.
"Competetitive" does not always equal "Tournament". There are PLENTY of cutthroat Commander-playing "Casuals" out there in general. And yes, lots of LGS's hold Commander Tournaments on their own, and where there are prizes to be won, you will have people being competitive.
strongly disagree.
it doesn´t matter that my kitchen table uses full powered legacy decks, it´s still casual play if the stakes are 0.
strong disagree. =) have multiple play groups ranging from extremely competitive game play, deck tuning with latest releases, high-cost card selection and desire to win all the way down to an excuse to get together and play kitchen table decks made purely from packs opened in a fat pack. these are some competitive staples that will be purchased in droves for multiplayer groups - many decks effectively just got an additional playset of duals, although we've drifted towards commander of late this will still have an immediate impact.
It's tempting to look at Lair based on current value. Thalia has already dropped to $5 for NM copies on TCG in advance of this printing. Foils can now be found for around $10. This set is doubling the number of printings/versions from 4 to 8, so should expect to see significant drops in existing inventory as a result even with a limited print run - especially given the heads up to anyone interested in buying.
Encourage anyone thinking about Lairs in terms of current market value to go back and look at card prices before and after printings. Similar to other reprints existing cards take a huge beating with these things.
I agree the traditional model of semi-predictable booster boxes / etc won't work with LGS stores on print-to-order. But who says we have to use a traditional model? This isn't the only industry challenged with this lately. Recent online ordering from retailers like Target/Walmart/HomeDepot are adapting where you can order inventory online and schedule it for pickup at a local location where it is not already in stock. It provides the best of online (per-buyer) ordering and retail pick-up without the messy retailer guess-logic on inventory management.
Imagine for a second LGSs were treated as Secret Lair distribution centers, and when ordering you could select an approved LGS of your choice, potentially with a perk for doing so like reduced cost, a promo planeswalker, etc. The LGS gets a bulk shipment representing actual orders, and buyers have a reason to give them some foot traffic. I would personally use this option if it was available, because it gives me the flexibility of dropping by the store when it works for me, rather than worrying about not being home with an expensive package shows up.
Wizards could give a small kickback to the store for the saved bulk shipping cost. Just a thought!
Here are a couple options (search on Amazon)
"N E W Professional Holographic Matte White 100 Pack Card Deck Protector Sleeves Precise Fit for MTG Pokemon and More!"
These look interesting and cause the commander to pop a bit without being unreadable.
I personally like a classic KMC Hyper Matte in Silver. I've been looking for better holographic or reflective / foil looking sleeves, but aside from some anime artwork options haven't found anything nice yet.
Let me know if you see other options!
Like the artwork but the halfway between extended Mythic Edition planeswalkers and regular border looks odd for some - the tops of the non-legends look awkward to have some of the background but then fades away into the extended art. Should have cropped the background color near the title box and had the extended art bleed through all the way. Temporal manipulation for example just looks odd. Also they should have gone with new art all around - such a pleasure to see some of these!
Heard back from customer service, and received a unique URL that allowed me to place the order (limited to just 1 box instead of 2). I received a notification the package was sent, and expect to receive it in the coming week. This is consistent with other customer reports, and they followed up with text messaging updates to confirm shipment. I'll report back if something falls apart, otherwise will close this experience. I think they stepped up a bit after a total failure the day of.
UPDATE/EDIT 10/07/2018:
While I still have not heard back after emailing them about my order, they have posted another link to a specific support page for those in the same situation. I've done the same and will report back. Hope this info helps.
ORIGINAL POST 10/03/2018:
What a nightmare today was for WotC and the Mythic Edition.
As a final update, they are soft-committing to resolving issues with outstanding orders: https://twitter.com/wizards_magic/status/1047647211058810881
Reports from callers who spoke with customer service rumor that they will re-check orders that partially went through (were charged or got an order number but no email or order showing in their history, or multiple orders made by mistake due to errors shown) to try and confirm existing orders. I'm in that camp and will post an update once I hear back from customer service.
To recap the festival of failure today (all times PST):
Some of this was to be expected. But even I was surprised at the level of missteps on both the treatment of financial information without reliable confirmations of orders, and the lack of timely and accurate tweets leaving so many fans frustrated with the experience. I hope WotC learns from this - unlike many of the tweets I do support direct distribution models with household limits in addition to LGS perks. But not like this.... not like this. LGS could have done a better job on this one.
On inventory issues, it again sometimes happens when a retail store lists the same card online, and if they aren't matching up online inventory with retail sales diligently, this can happen - they discover they are missing a card only when someone buys it from their online store.
Look for ratings and feedback on sellers - this will spot sellers than are closely monitoring their online inventory, card conditions, shipping cards on time, etc.
Unfortunately Wizards continues to show disregard for artwork significance, for example the recent Battlebond reprint of Land Tax which up until now was only featured on the Judge Promo. The watermark will still be unique but in my opinion these types of identical artwork reprints lead me to stay away from Judge promos (and for that matter all pricey promo cards), unless for other reasons we think they will be unique.
The promos that are relatively safe pickups are the ones on the reserve list, such as Yawgmoth's Will, Wheel of Fortune,
Survival of the Fittest, Gaea's Cradle, Intuition, Thawing Glaciers, Natural Order, Phyrexian Dreadnought, etc - especially as some will be the only printing with new borders, thanks to the loophole they used for a few years with Judge Promos and FTV sets.
Yes, you could make a case for the unique cards, example the old border promos, the Elesh Norn with alternate font, or the basic land set done a few years back. But these are not guaranteed - I could see them doing a Masters set one year with old borders as a throw back - and using the exact same art as many of the judge promos. Noble Hierarch would plummet in value overnight if that occurred, so anyone that bought a $300 copy would not be happy.
Even if they choose alternate art, the reprint quantity and style hugely affects, for example Wasteland was close to $300 at one point, and then they reprinted it twice within a year - both new art but same border style - in eternal masters and another judge promo. The original Judge Promo now sits at less than $100.
So unless the card is really unique, you believe it still stay unique, or is on the reserved list, I would stay away from Judge Promos as a collectible / investment.
strong disagree. =) have multiple play groups ranging from extremely competitive game play, deck tuning with latest releases, high-cost card selection and desire to win all the way down to an excuse to get together and play kitchen table decks made purely from packs opened in a fat pack. these are some competitive staples that will be purchased in droves for multiplayer groups - many decks effectively just got an additional playset of duals, although we've drifted towards commander of late this will still have an immediate impact.