I think the best way to start. Is to choose some of your own decks to teach them to play. Then when they have a grasp of it. Get them all into a draft without time limits. Maybe one tournament, then let them re assess their deck construction and make adjustments under your guidance, followed by another bunch of rounds.
Their draft deck and the desire to evolve it is the hook.
I don't really play anymore since the LGS closed, but I've intended to post my decks for some time.
I may add further explanation for these decks when I get the time. For now I'll just post em up for view. None of these decks were formed overnight, most were forged over months (or more). The goal being to achieve the highest degree of effectiveness while maintaining flavor.
Given that the meta for each deck has been the others. They balance like duel decks representing the color spectrum quite well.
This deck Likes to start out with a turn 1 Faithless Looting, dropping creatures into the graveyard and keeping the lands/spells. The negative card advantage is quickly negated by discarding bloodghasts, or by landing "Oath of Ghouls"
If blasphemous act isn't needed, it can be sideboarded for tendrils of despair to try and rip counterspells away from a blue player and adds sac outlets for highborn.
The deck is aggressive and loaded with spells that amplify Livewire lash, Shrine of burning rage, and activate fractured loyalty. Archwing dragon and the other two enchantments offer some inevitability.
Against Control, all enchantments get swapped for disruption.
The sideboard justifies the black splash and use of Blazing Specter over chandra's pheonix by allowing you to switch out your control for a potent mass of disruption.
I'm still messing around with this last one. It's decent but feels like sometimes it doesn't keep up, and I see some good RG cards spoiling for the new expansion.
I prefer the old frame but I'm over the change, I'm ok with mixing new/old. I also like the future site style. For me the biggest mistake was the change in the artifact color. They could have used the new metallic color for equipment and left other artifacts alone.
The Hierarch was a good choice, I wish they would do this more often. Maybe a good idea for another FTV style box set.
I was just thinking about stigma lasher and how they should have given him Pro Red, or the ability to give himself Pro Red. I find he always get's bolted, terminated, or lightning helixed
I remember the original RPGs on the old grey box (Nintendo) always had these instant kill spells that worked great on the lesser bad guys, but not on the bosses. So I agree to an extent. I think removal spells face the same issues the original counter spell faced, and the efficiency and density of these removal spells has been the #1 cause of creature power creep.
Arrogant in the extreme ? Perhaps you should consider the hypocrisy of your post. This isn't a "let's nerf infect" thread by any means. I personally consider infect to be a well balanced mechanic in no need of fixing, but the OP stated that the main focus was for greater interactivity in multiplayer and he has a valid point.
The proposed rules change could actually increase the viability of an infect deck in a multiplayer game since you can now better manage a strategy to coincide with other players or team mates actions.
I like the rule and I don't think it's weak nor convoluted.
Don't overlook the fact that it allows otherwise solid creatures like phyrexian crusader to play well with non dedicated infect decks, and that infect is still -1/-1 counters vs creatures.
The Plague stinger point can be addressed as well. Remember a plague stinger by itself was never a threat to begin with. Infect under this house rule offers increasing returns for cumulative infect damage, because only one counter is removed each upkeep.
So if you can proliferate once, and hit every turn with the stinger, your still inflicting 2 points of life loss per turn. That's before you get your other infect guys piling on, and/or your non infect guys playing towards the same goal.
I would gladly give up a turn one Nacatl for a turn one Mystic though, because that is busted.
Under current rules, a scenario involving a turn 2 Stoneforge mystic on the play is more busted than a scenario involving a turn 1 mystic under the proposed rules.
Try it out in a test game.
Try not to let it blow your mind.
An improvement might also be made by moving the mulligan option into each players first draw step. Slightly reducing the odds of mana screw.
Edit. This cant work because as the second player, you get to see what your opponent is playing. Maybe remove the first turn draw, and just start at 8 cards. Anyway, it's not that important.
What if player 2 just gets to play 2 land on his first turn of the game?
Someone made an argument about crazy turn 1 bobs or stoneforge mystic
Look at this scenario. Proposed Rules
Your player 1, and on your first turn, you drop a land and a 1cmc creature then pass the turn. Your opponent starts his turn and a stoneforge hits the field.
Sure that's a first turn SFM for player 2. But its only good in relation to where your opponent stands by that point in the game.
Now look at this scenario. Current Rules.
Your player 2, and on your first turn, you drop a land and a 1cmc creature then pass the turn. Your opponent starts his turn and stoneforge hits the field. Followed by an attack by the creature he/she played LAST turn.
Now which seams more fair and balanced? The first turn SFM, or the turn 2 SFM.
Not double sleeved, I'm not trying to perpetrate a hoax.
I have a few on hand like I said, I'm not going by just the picture like you guys are. They exist exactly as I described them. I believe they are probably old, and ceased production a long time ago in favor of sleeves that will wear out.
I can mail one to a moderator if proof is so needed. Bunch of cynics on here.
Key characteristics are a bigger Ultra pro bubble than whats found on their modern sleeves, and, the open end of the sleeve has about a 1/16" raised lip, or the top front has a recess, I'd have to go look.
I seam to remember doing some research into it and finding out exactly what the product is, but I've long since forgotten. Anyway I couldn't find any for purchase anywhere.
Their draft deck and the desire to evolve it is the hook.
I may add further explanation for these decks when I get the time. For now I'll just post em up for view. None of these decks were formed overnight, most were forged over months (or more). The goal being to achieve the highest degree of effectiveness while maintaining flavor.
Given that the meta for each deck has been the others. They balance like duel decks representing the color spectrum quite well.
The City, B/r Vamps
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
1 Tormod's Crypt (original art)
Creature 22
4 Bloodghast
1 Bloodhusk Ritualist
1 Falkenrath Aristocrat
2 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Guul Draz Assassin
3 Kalastria Highborn
1 Sangromancer
3 Street Wraith
2 Vampire Lacerator
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Vampire Nocturnus
Enchantment 4
4 Oath of Ghouls
Instant 4
2 Dark Ritual
1 Victim of Night
1 Blood Crypt
3 Bloodstained Mire
3 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Pit
2 Crypt of Agadeem
3 Graven Cairns
1 Marsh Flats
1 Phyrexian Tower
2 Swamp ( Ravanica )
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 forbidden orchard
Sorcery 8
2 Blasphemous Act
1 Buried Alive
4 Faithless Looting
2 Feast of Blood
2 tendrils of despair
2 Thought Hemorrhage
2 dark ritual
This deck Likes to start out with a turn 1 Faithless Looting, dropping creatures into the graveyard and keeping the lands/spells. The negative card advantage is quickly negated by discarding bloodghasts, or by landing "Oath of Ghouls"
Feast of blood helps stall, and Blasphemous act will nuke the field, at which point your graveyard becomes a recurrsion tool box, offering repeated visits by Vampire Night hawk, Gatekeeper of Malikir, or Street Wraith to draw cards. buried Alive becomes a tutor for one of your boss Vamps, accompanied by 2 bloodghasts.
You should rarely if ever find your Oath turned against you. With 3x Street Wraith, 4x Faithless looting, 1x buried alive, 4 maindeck gravyard hate, and a phyrexian tower, the Oath is nearly always one sided.
Kalastria Highborn, and Sangromancer can be amazing with Blasphemous act.
Bloodhusk Ritualist and guul draz assassin tend to get pitched to the graveyard where possible, upping the count for now, but coming back in the late game fueled by a now booming Crypt of Agadeem.
If blasphemous act isn't needed, it can be sideboarded for tendrils of despair to try and rip counterspells away from a blue player and adds sac outlets for highborn.
A turn two Thought Hemorrhage off of dark ritual can shut down a combo for good and seams to fit the flavor.
This Deck oozes with synergy and flavor, and it's fun to play.
==============================
Grixis Tide
3 Gengineered Explosives
2 Everflowing Chalice
3 Fume Spitter
2 Necroskitter
3 Phyrexian Crusader
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
4 Thrummingbird
2 Parallax Tide
1 Inexorable Tide (or a third Parallax Tide)
2 Grim Affliction
2 Volt Charge
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Crumbling Necropolis
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Dreadship Reef
3 Gemstone Mine
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Lavaclaw reaches
2 Molten Slagheap
3 Reflecting Pool
3 River of Tears
2 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Black Sun's Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Tezzeret's Gambit
========================
Mono Green
1 Viridian Longbow
4 Avenging Druid
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Elvish Lyrist
3 Elvish Visionary
1 Gaea's Revenge
4 Llanowar Augur
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Nettle Sentinel
1 Priest of Titania
3 Skyshroud Elite
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
4 Vengevine
3 viridian Zealot
1 Crop Rotation
1 Summoner's Pact
4 Centaur Garden
3 Forest
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Pendelhaven
3 Treetop village
4 Land Grant
========================
Rb
2 Shrine of Burning Rage
1 Archwing Dragon
2 Blazing Specter
2 Fireslinger
1 Goblin Guide
1 Jeska, Warrior Adept
4 Mogg Fanatic
4 Rakdol Cackler
2 Stigma Lasher
3 Stormblood berserker
2 Fractured Loyalty
1 Spiteful Visions
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 City of Traitors
4 Mountain
2 Sulfurous Springs
4 Teetering Peaks
4 Arc Trail
4 Chain Lightning / lightning bolt
2 Flame Jab
2 Blightning
2 Rakdos shred freak / goblin guide/ whatever replaces fractured loyalty for more pressure
1 Sulfuric Vortex
Comments:
The deck is aggressive and loaded with spells that amplify Livewire lash, Shrine of burning rage, and activate fractured loyalty. Archwing dragon and the other two enchantments offer some inevitability.
Against Control, all enchantments get swapped for disruption.
The sideboard justifies the black splash and use of Blazing Specter over chandra's pheonix by allowing you to switch out your control for a potent mass of disruption.
========================
Mono Blue
2 Sapphire Medallion
1 Vedalken Shackles
4 Augur of Bolas
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Morphling / Lorthos / other finisher
1 Peregrine Drake
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Somnophore
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
2 Brainstorm
2 Cryptic Command
3 Cyclonic Rift
1 Force of Will / Pact of Negation
4 Mana Leak
2 Misdirection
2 Vapor Snag
2 Faerie Conclave
15 Island
2 Riptide Laboratory
3 Rishadan Port
2 Ancestral vision
2 Exhaustion
========================
Mono White
1 Bone Saw
3 Bonesplitter
2 Chrome Mox
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
4 Knight of the White Orchid
3 Kor Duelist
2 Mother of Runes
3 Puresteel Paladin
2 Ranger of Eos
2 Serra Avenger
4 Squadron Hawk
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Reverent Mantra
4 Ancient Den
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Flagstones of Trokair
2 Nomad Stadium
8 Plains
2 Armageddon
1 Pariah's shield
1 Magetta the Lion
===========================
Sarkhans Jund
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Broodmate Dragon
1 Dragon Broodmother
3 Keldon Marauders
1 Dresh the Bloodbraided
2 Putrid Leech
2 Radha, Heir to Keld
2 Sprouting Thrinax
3 Viridian Emissary
1 Bituminous Blast
2 Colossal Might
4 Volt Charge
4 Barbarian Ring
1 Forest
3 Gilt-Leaf Palace
1 Keldon Necropolis
2 Mountain
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Savage Lands
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Terramorphic Expance
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Cabal Therapy
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Violent Ultimatum
I'm still messing around with this last one. It's decent but feels like sometimes it doesn't keep up, and I see some good RG cards spoiling for the new expansion.
The Hierarch was a good choice, I wish they would do this more often. Maybe a good idea for another FTV style box set.
He could have been awesome for shutting down modern's many kitchen finks and vampire nighthawks etc.
Cards like smother , deathmark, or even Radiant's Judgment were the way to go. Too late now though, the damage is done.
The proposed rules change could actually increase the viability of an infect deck in a multiplayer game since you can now better manage a strategy to coincide with other players or team mates actions.
Don't overlook the fact that it allows otherwise solid creatures like phyrexian crusader to play well with non dedicated infect decks, and that infect is still -1/-1 counters vs creatures.
The Plague stinger point can be addressed as well. Remember a plague stinger by itself was never a threat to begin with. Infect under this house rule offers increasing returns for cumulative infect damage, because only one counter is removed each upkeep.
So if you can proliferate once, and hit every turn with the stinger, your still inflicting 2 points of life loss per turn. That's before you get your other infect guys piling on, and/or your non infect guys playing towards the same goal.
And the delay just seams more flavorful.
Under current rules, a scenario involving a turn 2 Stoneforge mystic on the play is more busted than a scenario involving a turn 1 mystic under the proposed rules.
Try it out in a test game.
Try not to let it blow your mind.
Edit. This cant work because as the second player, you get to see what your opponent is playing. Maybe remove the first turn draw, and just start at 8 cards. Anyway, it's not that important.
Someone made an argument about crazy turn 1 bobs or stoneforge mystic
Look at this scenario. Proposed Rules
Your player 1, and on your first turn, you drop a land and a 1cmc creature then pass the turn. Your opponent starts his turn and a stoneforge hits the field.
Sure that's a first turn SFM for player 2. But its only good in relation to where your opponent stands by that point in the game.
Now look at this scenario. Current Rules.
Your player 2, and on your first turn, you drop a land and a 1cmc creature then pass the turn. Your opponent starts his turn and stoneforge hits the field. Followed by an attack by the creature he/she played LAST turn.
Now which seams more fair and balanced? The first turn SFM, or the turn 2 SFM.
I have a few on hand like I said, I'm not going by just the picture like you guys are. They exist exactly as I described them. I believe they are probably old, and ceased production a long time ago in favor of sleeves that will wear out.
I can mail one to a moderator if proof is so needed. Bunch of cynics on here.
Key characteristics are a bigger Ultra pro bubble than whats found on their modern sleeves, and, the open end of the sleeve has about a 1/16" raised lip, or the top front has a recess, I'd have to go look.
I seam to remember doing some research into it and finding out exactly what the product is, but I've long since forgotten. Anyway I couldn't find any for purchase anywhere.