Looks like I actually need 13 white and 13 black sources (and 20 colored lands total) to reliably hit BW on turn 2. The only way I see to achieve this is to cut out my tectonic edges, but that feels really bad. The mana denial plan is extra important without eldrazi to hasten the clock! Maybe I have to look into using a third dual land like caves of koilos? But that breaks the math of having 20 colored lands
And now I'm finding I can't hit that 20 mark at all. Even after going to 23 lands. Are we allowed to consider aether vial here to help us cheat our mana? I thought cutting the eldrazi would improve my manabase D:
So I am kinda new to this deck and haven't really been to my LGS since the unbanning of bloodbraid elf and jace. In the event that the store is rampant with Jund, what are some cards that I could look into adding to my main/side to increase my chances. Right now I am running just a mono white D&T that i have playtested some online, but haven't really been able to do well against jund.
This is distilled from years of trial and error and literally hundreds of posts by players on this thread, just like the generally accepted belief that 23 lands is optimal in this deck.
You’re welcome to ignore it, just like you’re welcome to ignore any other suggestions and advice posted here. Let us know how that goes for you.
It’s been thoroughly explained in previous primers. Most of this was ported into the last one, which is linked to at the top of page 1 of this primer.
It’s the basics of using Vial optimally in any deck: the creature part of the curve is skewed towards a specific number to make sure as many creatures as possible can interact with it.
The lack of 2-drops is by design to make the best use of Vial possible.
The deck runs best at 7-8 and can accommodate up to 10 if the meta calls for extra answers in that range, or cards that happen to fall at that mana cost.
A lot of stock, standard stuff, and a few solid meta calls. The biggest question is the value of the Displacer + Temple package vs simply playing more utility lands.
A top 4 finish definitely says something.
With the rest of what he’s playing, I can certainly understand cutting Copter
That said, definitely going to mull over this a bit.
Does the prevalence of BBE decks give enough of a reason to maindeck Mirran Crusaders again? And does the expectation of more Kommands warrant taking Copter out?
Right now, with Jace and BBE roaming free, I would go with 2 Revoker and at least 2 Mirran in the main and also be conscious that K-Command destroys us so we have to minimize the targets for it. So, Copters out.
I would put the selfless to the side and keep an eye on Mark of Asylum if the bolt presence go nuts.
At this point it’s all theorycrafting and I hate theorycrafting instead of testing and tuning. Past experience tells me I want the maindeck Crusaders and in my sideboard I want some or all of these:
I really don’t know beyond Champion. If new Jund plays like old Jund, or new WUx Control plays like old WUx Control; then Champion is backbreaking and it goes beautifully with a maindeck, and possibly also sideboard, Brimaz.
I really can’t say until I know what bubbles to the surface.
In the meantime, the question remains: what lessons can we carry over from today’s event and Mr Dykman’s performance to further tune this deck?
just in case anyone's thinking of running spot removal and discard - this would give your opponent lots of things to bring back with a living end.
your removal of choice should exile if possible. Path to Exile is probably the most suitable.
also, as this is a combo deck it would probably benefit the strategy to make the mana curve a bit leaner, maybe drop those Disallows for a mix of Spell Snare, Spell Pierce and maybe a single Dispel. this allows you to not only put the brakes on very fast aggressive strategies but it would allow you to protect your As Foretold very early in the game, or force it through an early counterspell. These cheaper pieces of interaction would also come online quicker as As Foretold picks up counters.
just a few thoughts.
So, what you're saying, is: "Don't use spells that put cards in the graveyard! Use spells that put cards in the graveyard, instead!"
Also, Disallow and, by extension, Nimble Obstructionist are important for their ability to get you around cards that shut your combo down, such as opponents' counterspells and Chalice of the Void.
...I'd like to point out that in a meta which is saturated with mainboard Kolaghan's Command (like mine), I think Serra Avenger is the better choice. Killing a creature + Copter in response to crew sets you back 3 creatures for a turn, which is backbreaking to say at least.
Having a Vial destroyed on the other hand isn't that much of an issue since you've probably already made value out of it, or drew it as a bad late-game topdeck.
That’s not how the Crew ability works. At most, you will lose two cards, which is just what Kolaghan’s Command does.
“ Creatures that crew a Vehicle aren’t attached to it or related in any other way. Effects that affect the Vehicle, such as by destroying it or giving it a +1/+1 counter, don’t affect the creatures that crewed it.”
Almost every creature deck I competitively played with in the last 6-8 months have had Smugglers Copter in them. I have top’d in all those tournaments. Not trying to provoke ego here but showing my level of certainty with copter.
- Easy to cast
- filter bad draws and loot non-relevant draws (late game vial and repeat Thalia)
- survives wipes
- safest turn to drop against removal heavy decks.
- greeeat against affinity
- great for digging for sb cards in grinch match ups.
The list goes on but those are major components for a large tournament where variance will be expected. Understanding how card variance happens over a larger sample size will help you understand that more chances of drawing cards and smoothing variance out will be a shoe in overnight something like Serra avaenger.
If you want some detail, message me on twitter (deathandcatmix) and I’ll do my best to support your list!
Really can’t top this recommendation!
Haven’t had the opportunity to try it out myself yet, but have 2 sitting in the main right now. From a design perspective, it makes perfect sense for the deck; though, I have to admit part of me still wants Selfless Spirit in those slots.
I would go with deathandcatmix’s advice here. He’s thoroughly tested and achieved with it and it’s been duplicated by many other players to great success.
The cost of Liliana was problematic, but the other two were great! With Seer, you also have the option of dropping in Anafenza and Kitchen Finks/Murderous Redcap for a pocket combo people don’t see coming from this deck.
I don’t doubt there’s a good reason for it. SpiderSpace is using it, so it’s got to address a critical need.
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Dark Confidant
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Flickerwisp
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
3 Smuggler's Copter
3 Lingering Souls
Lands:23
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Godless Shrine
2 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Tectonic Edge
All of these have applications in multiple other matchups.
Lingering Souls is great, too; but it requires a splash and isn’t as widely applicable as it used to be.
You’re welcome to ignore it, just like you’re welcome to ignore any other suggestions and advice posted here. Let us know how that goes for you.
It’s the basics of using Vial optimally in any deck: the creature part of the curve is skewed towards a specific number to make sure as many creatures as possible can interact with it.
The deck runs best at 7-8 and can accommodate up to 10 if the meta calls for extra answers in that range, or cards that happen to fall at that mana cost.
1 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Blade Splicer
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Restoration Angel
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
10 Plains
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ghost Quarter
3 Horizon Canopy
1 Shefet Dunes
1 Tectonic Edge
Spells (8)
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
4 Relic of Progenitus
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Burrenton Forge-Tender
3 Stony Silence
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Dismember
A top 4 finish definitely says something.
With the rest of what he’s playing, I can certainly understand cutting Copter
That said, definitely going to mull over this a bit.
Mirran Crusader in, yes, but I honestly don’t know about Smuggler’s Copter or any of the suggestions made in the later quote.
At this point it’s all theorycrafting and I hate theorycrafting instead of testing and tuning. Past experience tells me I want the maindeck Crusaders and in my sideboard I want some or all of these:
I really can’t say until I know what bubbles to the surface.
In the meantime, the question remains: what lessons can we carry over from today’s event and Mr Dykman’s performance to further tune this deck?
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Leonin Arbiter
3 Selfless Spirit
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Blade Splicer
4 Flickerwisp
4 Restoration Angel
Spells:10
4 Aether Vial
4 Path to Exile
2 Smuggler's Copter
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Horizon Canopy
2 Mutavault
9 Plains
3 Shefet Dunes
3 Tectonic Edge
3 Auriok Champion
3 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Sunlance
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Rest in Peace
1 Settle the Wreckage
Still not 100% satisfied with where I've got this - not that I ever will be, but 95% or so would be nice.
Also, Disallow and, by extension, Nimble Obstructionist are important for their ability to get you around cards that shut your combo down, such as opponents' counterspells and Chalice of the Void.
Another great chain:
1) Land -> Vial, Pass
2) Tick Vial, Play Land, Play Smopter, Pass
2.5) During opponent’s combat step, Vial in a 1-drop, Tap it, Block with Smopter, Loot
Edit:
Here are the oracle rulings for reference. Of particular relevance:
“ Creatures that crew a Vehicle aren’t attached to it or related in any other way. Effects that affect the Vehicle, such as by destroying it or giving it a +1/+1 counter, don’t affect the creatures that crewed it.”
Haven’t had the opportunity to try it out myself yet, but have 2 sitting in the main right now. From a design perspective, it makes perfect sense for the deck; though, I have to admit part of me still wants Selfless Spirit in those slots.
I would go with deathandcatmix’s advice here. He’s thoroughly tested and achieved with it and it’s been duplicated by many other players to great success.
The cost of Liliana was problematic, but the other two were great! With Seer, you also have the option of dropping in Anafenza and Kitchen Finks/Murderous Redcap for a pocket combo people don’t see coming from this deck.