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  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Mullefa »
    FWIW, I think this deck is legit. I'm not exactly a good player - probably had a 50% win rate with B/W Eldrazi and Taxes - but since playing the Mono-White version my record is 27-8-4.
    Quote from 2imu »
    In light of Brian Coval's win at the SCG Invitational Weekend with mono-W Death & Taxes, I wrote a blog post covering some of my thoughts about the deck and the D&T archetype in general.

    ...

    While this mono-W list (the Theau Mery list) has done very well for a second time (along with an explosion of 5-0 results on MTGO), my opinion of it is that it is a very metagame-targetted deck, which is obviously a good thing in these cases: the pilots identified the target decks, and built/played a deck to beat them. On a more local level with a more random and varied assortment of decks, I don't imagine this list will consistently do quite as well (though it definitely has a LOT of good things going for it).
    What has me absolutely tickled pink about this deck is how close it is to the original Modern D&T lists. It's the closest we've been to it since Death&Catmix's original Lingering Taxes deck.

    I love that, despite swings for unbalanced metas, it ultimately comes back to the same thing when the meta is relatively healthy.
    Quote from Tdog09876 »
    Would love to see your current list and reasons
    Well, since you insist. ;P

    I really, really like the Mery list. It's hard to argue with something so brilliantly tuned for the meta that requires significantly fewer play decisions than traditional lists; it's great for the long haul of Opens and GPs.

    That said, while I am playing a list unquestionably close to it, I do make a few deviations.
    Lands:
    • Cavern of Souls: I don't like it here. Willing to admit I may be wrong, though. Still, this slot can be so many other cards that I'm enjoying having here instead.
    • Eiganjo Castle: This card is a relic from the days when this deck had a plethora of Legendary creatures and Bolt was the removal of choice. It serves almost no purpose in the current iteration of the deck and opens vulnerability to Blood Moon. I'd rather reserve non-basic slots for more useful cards.
    • Horizon Canopy: I don't have them. If I did, I'd play them.
    • Tectonic Edge: This isn't a bad card, but it's easily played around and not as game-changing as other available choices.
    Creatures:
    • Phyrexian Revoker: This card has just never worked out for me. It's one of the few cards I keep as an "option", but I just don't feel it in the current meta.
    • Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: I feel 4 is overkill and 3 is still plenty of redundancy without risking a handful of unplayable legends.
    Artifacts:
    • Aether Vial: I did quite a write up on the merits of playing 3 instead of 4 in the previous thread. The short version is you're trading a 5% chance of having it in your opener for better later-game draws. With the tweaks I decided to make to the deck I was left with the choice of 4 of these, or 4 Restos, which I feel just plays better.
    Sideboard:
    • Burrenton Forge-Tender: This was a difficult cut, but with the additions I made to the board, they just weren't essential anymore.
    • Mirran Crusader: There's no need to have any in the side with 3 in the main.
    • Relic of Progenitus: I understand the value of the card draw over Rest in Peace, but I prefer the more consistent solution. Also the potential issue with Stony Silence, while mostly irrelevant, was still a concern.
    • Sunlance: I don't feel the extra removal is necessary with the other changes to the deck.
    Lands:
    • Concealed Courtyard: Possibly the best card available to this deck for splashing B. Testing showed more than 4 B sources were necessary, so this was cut down to 3 due to later-game issues.
    • Godless Shrine: The other WB land. No more than 2 are necessary. If I require another WB land, I'll add the 4th Courtyard.
    • Mutavault: With 4 copies of Blade Splicer in the deck, it's hard not to include potentially First-Striking lands. These both speed up the deck and improve its late game. What's not to like?
    • Vault of the Archangel: The first card in the deck to take advantage of the B splash. So many creatures in this deck have First Strike (or Double Strike) that this is virtually a land that taps for a one sided Wrath. Even if it can't be fully exploited in this capacity, it is potentially large-scale, repeatable lifegain.
    Creatures:
    • Mirran Crusader: So yeah, I'm playing 3...in the main deck. My thought is, if I can get away with playing a card that hates on most of the beaters of choice in the meta, why not do it? If the meta swings back to Bolts, 2 Brimaz could work here instead.
    • Serra Avenger: See previous. I know that Mery played 2, but Coval did not. I think it's fair to play 2 while still possible. If the meta has too many Bolts, play 2-3 Selfless Spirit instead.
    Sorceries:
    • Lingering Souls: The other reason for the B splash. As Death&Catmix taught us, 2 of these is all it takes to push this deck in matches like old school Jund/Junk and against other would-be midrange/interactive decks. It also makes an easy side out for cards like Grafdigger's and RiP.
    Sideboard:
    • Auriok Champion: This card has absurd interactions with the token producers in this deck and is a nightmare for decks that rely on B or R removal. It can block Shadow, Tasigur, and most Dredge creatures while pumping up your life total. If there's ever a point where slots open in the main, this is a legitimate contender for them.
    • Ethersworn Canonist: Without a proper collection of legitimate "police decks" in the format, combo decks are currently enjoying a resurgence. Storm, Living End, and Ad Nauseum are showing higher numbers and greater success. One of the weaknesses of the Mery and Coval lists was their inability to effectively answer such combos. This card does that.
    • Grafdigger's Cage: 1-mana, artifact graveyard/search hate that plays nicely with Stony Silence? Sign me up! Increased to 2 copies to compensate for the decrease in sideboard graveyard hate.
    • Rest in Peace: While this doesn't play nice with Dusk // Dawn, Relic and Cage don't either. This at least does what it needs to do alongside Stony Silence and, even if removed, still wipes yards.
    • Stony Silence: Mery ran 2. Coval ran 3. 3 is correct. It also trades easily for the 3 Vials.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    I know it's been awhile. My current work schedule doesn't allow me to get out and play much competitive magic, but I have enjoyed current events, especially after months of telling people at the LGS that ask about the deck to take a serious look at Monowhite.
    Quote from SpinifexV »
    Brian Coval just posted an article on his Invitational win with Death & Taxes. A must read, especially for his sideboarding decisions.
    Thanks for the link!

    His comments following the event and in this article have helped confirm some of my own lines in the deck.

    ...

    Had a lot more to those, but lost the post, mainly current list, reasons, etc. If there's interest, will add later.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Finally had some time to play (has been since January) and have been pleasantly surprised both with Windbrisk Heights and just MonoW in general.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    There were 2 or 3 posts quoting the same thing. I grabbed this one as it was the easiest way to address everything at once.

    Going a few posts in on that, mandatory 4-ofs were mentioned. I don't believe the deck has any, though it's hard to see why you wouldn't want 4 Paths (and GQs) as they're one-use cards with a need to play more than once each game.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Lapahn »
    Quote from Asatas »
    Essential 4-ofs are only: Vial, Path, Arbiter, Flickerwisp, TKS

    I bought into the mono white Vialess Version from GP Vancouver and beg to differ :p
    You're not going to find much specific advice for the Vial-less list. Vial-less taxes is extremely unconventional and it's likely a worse version of the deck that we all play. There are some advantages to it - none of us like topdecking a Vial in the late game - but that list was built for an aggro metagame and your mileage is going to vary as the metagame shifts.

    When you have a chance, I'd recommend picking up a playset of Vials, if only so that you have the flexibility to pilot whichever version you want.
    Anymore, the only non-land 4-of I play in the deck is Path to Exile. Everything else caps at 3, and numbers vary depending on the meta.

    I haven't liked Tidehollow Sculler in this variant of D&T for a long time due to the temperamental mana base. I think the most the deck can support is 2, and Selfless Spirit killed off any interest I had in the card.

    I play B in the deck solely for Lingering Souls and Wasteland Strangler, plus a few sideboard tricks.

    As can't be said enough: metas and playstyles differ and what works for one person may not for another.

    I agree that picking up Vials is a good idea as tinkering is a big part of playing this archetype.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from ChubDub »
    Quick newbie question: when y'all suggest new players start with a fairly stock Mono-White list, is there a published list you have in mind (Wescoe's maybe)?
    Also, I've been happy with Judge's Familiar so far and am wondering what I'm missing, since almost every good D&T player is off of it.
    First page of the primer. If you're not feeling Brimaz, Blade Splicer works fine there, too.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Is this D&T? E&T? Something else?

    The truth is it benefits from combining aspects of multiple versions of the deck.

    I have benefitted from multiple styles being in the thread and players of multiple styles can benefit from seeing lists like this. Start splitting hairs over differences and that cross-pollination ceases to occur.

    Edit: Was too long, shortened to get to the point.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Kazral »
    Thanks guys, very informative responses. Honestly the number of variations is overwhelming with this deck; it's hard for me to figure out which "style" I want to be playing at the end of the day! Wescoe's list, Eldrazi and Taxes, Spirits and Taxes, B/W Taxes, they're all so fun and different O_O
    Quote from Mr_Bote »
    Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
    One of the keys to doing well with this deck is understanding that, unlike most decks in the format, there is not now, nor will ever be, an optimized list.

    It doesn't work that way.

    Whether you call it D&T, E&T, W/X Flicker, or Bobo the Wonder Snake; all of the decks are built on the same core concepts and fundamental principles. This is why an E&T thread or Spirits&Taxes thread makes no sense to those who know the deck. It would be like calling every different options package of a car by a different model name. It didn't work for Alfa Romeo, and it won't work for us.

    In fact, it's exactly this kind of splintering that hurts the deck. Constant renaming and reclassification of the deck has made information gathering and assessment of its meta position nearly impossible.

    The best advice for people new to the archetype is to try a traditional white build for a few, then splash, trim, and substitute to your heart's content until you find a build that you feel addresses both the meta and your playstyle.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    I genuinely despise the card (Aether Vial) in this deck. It forces weird curve choices, more complex mid-game decision trees, and is a horrible topdeck later on.

    I've been trying to find ways to cut it this past year, but I keep coming back to it. Many of the cards in this deck, such as Leonin Arbiter, Selfless Spirit, Eldrazi Displacer, Thought-Knot Seer, and, of course, Flickerwisp are simply vastly improved by its inclusion.

    I can definitely understand the reasoning, however.
    It's funny that you should mention "complex mid-game decision trees" as a reason you despise Vial; I think of that as a feature, rather than a bug. It rewards tight play and knowledge of the metagame.
    At large events, especially 2-day events, fatigue is a very real thing. While I do appreciate the flexibility, having more choices isn't always a good thing.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    The problem with Vial is that it gets less valuable as the game goes on. Sure, you can keep a Vial on 3 for when you topdeck a Flickerwisp, but you'll probably have a lot of unused mana late in a game. Typically, this is where manlands prove to be useful; they're our mana sinks in the late game.
    My mana sink of choice is still Eldrazi Displacer, but I really love that card.

    I appreciate the potential value of manlands; Shambling Vent used to be one of my favorite cards in the deck, but lately my goal is just increasing pressure via Displacer. I also would rather have my hands tied by CiPT lands as little as possible.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    As for his other comments, I agree with his assessment on maximizing land usage. Windbrisk Heights is intriguing and I certainly miss Mutavault, but I'm not quite ready to give up Lingering Souls and Wasteland Strangler just yet. I think the B splash deprives the luxury of crazy land choices.
    I think Windbrisk Heights is okay, but I don't know how he can depend on having 3 creatures to attack with, in order to activate it. The removal in Modern is everywhere, and I regularly have opponents that prevent me from having a surplus of creatures to stop them from being overwhelmed.

    Heights is probably better with Lingering Souls, because Souls creates a lot of creatures. But it's clear that for mono-white like this list, he was forced to play Blade Splicer instead, just to be able to go wide enough that Heights has value. It seems fragile to me, especially when your opponents are going to instant-speed remove your Splicer to be able to block your Golem and Mutavault.

    I applaud the deck creator for his metagame choices and I congratulate him on his T8. But I think he got lucky with his matchups and his presumably-confused opponents, because I don't even think I could take his list to my LGS and win with it.
    I think more credit is due than that. It was the right list for the meta, which is the key to the archetype. It's as much a builder's deck as it is a player's deck. There's a lot of smart things going on here and I agree that much of what we used to rely on Vial for we can now do off the back of other cards. That said, the versatility of mana uses Vial allows is huge in the late game. He's not wrong, but that doesn't make it the universal truth. D&T is possibly the most YMMV deck in Modern. I think the potential for explosive starts on the back of a T1 Heights is enormous and, as many Kytheon devotees can attest, It's not that difficult of an effect to trigger. That said, I hate CiPT lands in any deck, but especially here. The hardest part,from my perspective, is having the leftover W to activate while keeping a tight lock on the board...that and the aggravation of making every land drop but being one mana down every turn starting out.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Mullefa »
    Another proponent of Lingering Souls. What matches would you side it in for? What would go out?
    A lot of the old-timers are fans of Lingering Souls. Catmix and I also maindeck it regularly.

    The question should be "which matches do you side it out for?" And the answer is not many of them. The card is basically a 4-for-1, so you only side it out if you would have lost by the time you can get value out of it. I'll occasionally take it out against Burn, because getting double taxed by Eidolon is really bad. It's not great against Bogles or Infect, but it will necessitate that your opponent find something that provides trample or lifelink.
    Once you splash B, you never go back?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Finkllestein »
    So his opinion is that vial is holding D&T back. I always felt the opposite, but i'll test his deck out. Still not sold on shoals though.
    I genuinely despise the card (Aether Vial) in this deck. It forces weird curve choices, more complex mid-game decision trees, and is a horrible topdeck later on.

    I've been trying to find ways to cut it this past year, but I keep coming back to it. Many of the cards in this deck, such as Leonin Arbiter, Selfless Spirit, Eldrazi Displacer, Thought-Knot Seer, and, of course, Flickerwisp are simply vastly improved by its inclusion.

    I can definitely understand the reasoning, however.


    As for his other comments, I agree with his assessment on maximizing land usage. Windbrisk Heights is intriguing and I certainly miss Mutavault, but I'm not quite ready to give up Lingering Souls and Wasteland Strangler just yet. I think the B splash deprives the luxury of crazy land choices.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    ...it is quite different from the "original" ones here.
    I often feel this way with the various directions I run with the D&T core. I've drawn criticism for lists I've posted here in the past when I do things like shave a Flickerwisp or Æther Vial. The response I'd get to what I've been doing with the core of this deck lately would make posting here pointless, and also confuse new players about how they should be starting out with the deck.
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    ...it plays chalice which is not seen in any kind of "traditional" DnT list. Therefore it does not belong in this thread. Simple as that.
    I've played Chalice of the Void in this deck for a long time now, so that's nothing new. The only reason I don't now is that it doesn't mesh well with the 12 1-drops I have in the deck.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from darktutor »
    About Wasteland Strangler's interaction with Phantasmal Image: It's a good thing you brought the subject up, cause there are probably a lot a of people are missing the chance of killing an imaged Lord of Atlantis and giving up some wins because they don't know they can do it. But there's nothing rule-bending in there, you are forced to pick a target when the ability triggers regardless of being able to even process a card or not, as you target the image it has to deal with its own trigger.
    The bizarre part is that it works when your opponent has no cards in exile. You will get a judge call for this, and may even need to appeal it as it runs completely counter to how the card is supposed to work. Even when he's whipping Norin into the graveyard after being cast to kill a Soul Warden, it still makes sense.

    Popping in to kill a Phantasmal Image with no cards in exile may be an issue that sets off alarms for opponents.

    I know this isn't really rule-bending, as the rules and rulings are what make this work. It just isn't immediately intuitive.

    In all fairness, Leonin Arbiter doesn't bend rules either. He enforces them...brutally
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    So I've bounced this off of a series of Judges, and it appears that Wasteland Strangler has an Arbiter-level rule-bending interaction with Phantasmal Image. This runs counter to the way the card reads and has to do with the nature of the keywords when, if, may, and target. This interaction is important for the Merfolk matchup.

    First, let's look at the text of the card:
    When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield, you may put a card an opponent owns from exile into that player's graveyard. If you do, target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.

    On the surface this seems simple enough, but even the most straightforward execution of this is misunderstood, even by competitive players. To clarify, I'll explain this first.

    To begin with, I'm going to bold the keywords and underline the action tied to each:
    When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield, you may put a card an opponent owns from exile into that player's graveyard. If you do, target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.

    The DCI has ruled that this works in the following manner:
    1. Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield.
    2. Its triggered ability goes on the stack. At this time you must declare your target.
    3. If the ability resolves (the creature is not removed from play some other way beforehand), then the creature gets -3/-3 and you choose a card your opponent owns in exile to place in their graveyard.

    This means, if Strangler would kill the creature and your opponent sacs or bounces or otherwise removes it to prevent this from happening, the card does not go to the graveyard. This part isn't the weird bit, this is just how the card is meant to work.

    Here's where it gets weird.

    Due to the wording of both cards, Wasteland Strangler can kill Phantasmal Image even if your opponent has no cards in exile. As with all other targeting spells, this cannot be countered, even by Kira.

    Here's how it works:
    1. Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield.
    2. Its triggered ability goes on the stack. At this time you must declare your target.
    3. You declare Phantasmal Image as your target.
    4. Since it has been targeted, as per its text, Phantasmal Image dies.

    Why does this work? There is no stipulation on the when clause that requires a card to be in exile for it to go on the stack. This is only required to resolve the may and if clauses. Since the Phantasmal Image is no longer in play, these keywords are irrelevant.

    I'm not the first person to find this interaction. Even other posters on MTGS have beaten me to this, but answers and discussions are frighteningly inconsistent. I've run this up the judge chain, though, and so far there's no rulings/precedent to refute this interaction.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Jendo87 »
    I like keeping in vials vs Merfolk because we utilize them for a lot more tricks, Stony is one of those cards I wasn't using because I didn't feel the need too, BW has lingering souls for affinity which is practicaly what stony is for, and playing Thalia turn 2 or arbiter turn 2 is what you want vs tron, not stony imo.
    I have a ridiculous amount of playtime against Tron and I can say, without question, Stony Silence and Selfless Spirit are the best cards we have in that match. Leonin Arbiter and Thalia are great, don't get me wrong, but they're simply speed bumps whereas Stony turns off all the eggs, Expedition Map, and Oblivion Stone, which is more important. Add the Spirit, and you're shutting off Pyroclasm, too.

    Relying entirely on Ghost Quarter and Tectonic Edge to carry this match is a mistake.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Topdeck_tech »

    @Spoontown
    This is where I want to be now. I was playing 2 stony and 1 kitaki but have not missed them. 3 Sunlance, 1 EE, 1 Ratchet Bomb, 1 Disenchant, and one other removal spell (has been bouncing back and forth Declaration, Journey, Dismember and Celestial Purge) has been great. I don't feel like Stony wins the game much and If its not going to hit other decks in the meta then I don't want to play it. Plus Affinity is not to hard to beat if you play tight.
    You're kidding, right?

    Stony is primarily there for Affinity, yes, but it's also great against Lantern Control, Restore Balance (why am I seeing this so much lately?), GR Tron, and occasionally other D&T decks.

    I've never boarded it in against Merfolk. Rothgar, if you have any insight there, it'd be appreciated.

    Point is, it's not just Affinity hate. It's potent artifact hate

    As for Kataki, it's been quite a while since I felt he made the cut.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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