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  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Hadn’t seen this posted, so thought I’d drop this here.A lot of stock, standard stuff, and a few solid meta calls. The biggest question is the value of the Displacer + Temple package vs simply playing more utility lands.

    A top 4 finish definitely says something.

    With the rest of what he’s playing, I can certainly understand cutting Copter

    That said, definitely going to mull over this a bit.
    Quote from MeetJSquared »
    Does the prevalence of BBE decks give enough of a reason to maindeck Mirran Crusaders again? And does the expectation of more Kommands warrant taking Copter out?
    Quote from xotug »
    Right now, with Jace and BBE roaming free, I would go with 2 Revoker and at least 2 Mirran in the main and also be conscious that K-Command destroys us so we have to minimize the targets for it. So, Copters out.
    I would put the selfless to the side and keep an eye on Mark of Asylum if the bolt presence go nuts.
    Mirran Crusader in, yes, but I honestly don’t know about Smuggler’s Copter or any of the suggestions made in the later quote.

    At this point it’s all theorycrafting and I hate theorycrafting instead of testing and tuning. Past experience tells me I want the maindeck Crusaders and in my sideboard I want some or all of these:I really don’t know beyond Champion. If new Jund plays like old Jund, or new WUx Control plays like old WUx Control; then Champion is backbreaking and it goes beautifully with a maindeck, and possibly also sideboard, Brimaz.

    I really can’t say until I know what bubbles to the surface.

    In the meantime, the question remains: what lessons can we carry over from today’s event and Mr Dykman’s performance to further tune this deck?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Congrats to SpiderSpace and welcome back to deathandcatmix!

    Quote from ppkitty »

    Tec Edge is just better for the 4-8 LD cards but field of ruin is a great 9-10 option. That said I don't think you need 3 mutavaults, 3 shefet dunes and 2 canopies. You have the room to cut if you want 10 LD cards, just depends on your meta.
    Not interested in the 10 LD build and definitely no issues with the lands as-is, though I may trade a Shefet Dunes for a basic Plains. The question is simply if the potential gains against Tron make it worth playing Field of Ruin over Tectonic Edge. The answer appears to be no.
    Quote from ppkitty »

    Quote from Chalupacabra »

    • The obvious choice is extra removal. The front runners here would be Blessed Alliance, Condemn, and Sunlance. All of these offer different benefits in different matchups. Blessed Alliance grants the most versatility, while Sunlance is the most consistent. Condemn falls somewhere in-between.
    • I could cut a card somewhere and drop in 3 copies of Leyline of Sanctity. I’m normally not a fan of this card in the deck, but with Storm and other combo running rampant, as well as copious amounts of discard, it may be time to reconsider.
    • Maybe Fragmentize is needed to address Ensnaring Bridge, Blood Moon, and Affinity?
    • The last card I’ve been thinking about lately is Runed Halo. It has incredible utility against most of what’s being played right now and can even answer many of the unexpected rogues.
    -Removal is always good, sunlance and blessed alliance being my favorites.
    You’re right, removal is good...I’ll do my best to hold removal slots if I can.
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -Layline ok... but only if it replaces Ethersworn canonist. 5 cards for storm is to much. Also I don't really like layline very much with how resilient storm is these days with gifts. They can almost just draw through their whole deck once they get going so it's no problem to just find an empty the warrens to kill you. Canonist is better against them, but if you play against a lot of discard then layline is multipurpose.
    kodieyost has already addressed Gifts Ungiven and both cards have applications beyond the Storm matchup. These uses do not have as much overlap as you seem to think, but yes, they do both hit Storm.
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -I have been running fragmentize but literally never wanted to cast it. Flickerwisp is already an out to bridge and blood moon.
    Fair enough, will scrap that, then.
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -I don't play with runed halo (just never picked any up yet) but it seems sweet, just a cheep almost catch all.
    It’s incredibly efficient, but it tends to be redundant with Leyline of Sanctity. That said, it’s surprisingly versatile in a wide range of matches.
    Quote from Chalupacabra »

    Should Selfless Spirit be in the main? In place of what?

    Is 2 copies of Displacer too many? Should 1 be replaced with another 3-drop, or maybe I should make a cut elsewhere to find maindeck space for those previously-mentioned Spirits?

    With the continued and arguably increasing popularity of Walking Ballista, maybe it’s time to go old school and drop a Resto for a singleton Linvala?

    What deck choices, if any, even address the humans deck?

    It’s a weird meta to read...
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -Selfless spirit is typically in place of any of the fleck spots eg. displace, crusader, copter, avenger, restos 3-4. Only good if you see a lot of board wipes or removal, like old GBx, control or grixis decks.
    Control is locally omnipresent and always relevant at the competitive level. My every instinct screams that it should have Smopter’s slots, but I want to give the latter a fair try.
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -I run 3 dispacers and 2 restos. I love displacer (it also takes care of that pesky ballista which you are concerned with) it makes flickerwisp abuseable. as for Linvala I don't personally like 1 ofs since we have no filter/draw/tutor.
    This tells me that 9 flicker cards is a solid total, then. I’ll consider a 4-3-2 or 4-4-1 split with Eldrazi Displacer as the final number.

    That’s a solid point on non-redundant singletons.
    Quote from ppkitty »
    -I have no advice for humans it just seems so bad of a match up.
    Noted, will brainstorm on that matchup, then.
    As for Maralen of the Mornsong; I tried it a few years back and found it to be a lot like Mangara: too fragile to lock and too weak to apply pressure.

    As always, your mileage may vary.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from LtGlitter »
    At some point in a game you should realize that you aren't setting your opponent back by using ghost quarters or tec edges, even if you have an arbiter out. Sometimes this happens as early as turn 3 or 4. Save them to kill man-lands in the end game and you will have all the mana you need to activate the wreckage.
    100% this. Only use GQ/Edge when you will gain advantage. Otherwise, hold onto the mana.

    Still tinkering with microsplashes, etc. to try to find a balance I like. Still not sure what that is.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Streaming about Lingering Taxes if y'all are free.
    Missed it, how'd it go?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Mullefa »
    FWIW, I think this deck is legit. I'm not exactly a good player - probably had a 50% win rate with B/W Eldrazi and Taxes - but since playing the Mono-White version my record is 27-8-4.
    Quote from 2imu »
    In light of Brian Coval's win at the SCG Invitational Weekend with mono-W Death & Taxes, I wrote a blog post covering some of my thoughts about the deck and the D&T archetype in general.

    ...

    While this mono-W list (the Theau Mery list) has done very well for a second time (along with an explosion of 5-0 results on MTGO), my opinion of it is that it is a very metagame-targetted deck, which is obviously a good thing in these cases: the pilots identified the target decks, and built/played a deck to beat them. On a more local level with a more random and varied assortment of decks, I don't imagine this list will consistently do quite as well (though it definitely has a LOT of good things going for it).
    What has me absolutely tickled pink about this deck is how close it is to the original Modern D&T lists. It's the closest we've been to it since Death&Catmix's original Lingering Taxes deck.

    I love that, despite swings for unbalanced metas, it ultimately comes back to the same thing when the meta is relatively healthy.
    Quote from Tdog09876 »
    Would love to see your current list and reasons
    Well, since you insist. ;P

    I really, really like the Mery list. It's hard to argue with something so brilliantly tuned for the meta that requires significantly fewer play decisions than traditional lists; it's great for the long haul of Opens and GPs.

    That said, while I am playing a list unquestionably close to it, I do make a few deviations.
    Lands:
    • Cavern of Souls: I don't like it here. Willing to admit I may be wrong, though. Still, this slot can be so many other cards that I'm enjoying having here instead.
    • Eiganjo Castle: This card is a relic from the days when this deck had a plethora of Legendary creatures and Bolt was the removal of choice. It serves almost no purpose in the current iteration of the deck and opens vulnerability to Blood Moon. I'd rather reserve non-basic slots for more useful cards.
    • Horizon Canopy: I don't have them. If I did, I'd play them.
    • Tectonic Edge: This isn't a bad card, but it's easily played around and not as game-changing as other available choices.
    Creatures:
    • Phyrexian Revoker: This card has just never worked out for me. It's one of the few cards I keep as an "option", but I just don't feel it in the current meta.
    • Thalia, Guardian of Thraben: I feel 4 is overkill and 3 is still plenty of redundancy without risking a handful of unplayable legends.
    Artifacts:
    • Aether Vial: I did quite a write up on the merits of playing 3 instead of 4 in the previous thread. The short version is you're trading a 5% chance of having it in your opener for better later-game draws. With the tweaks I decided to make to the deck I was left with the choice of 4 of these, or 4 Restos, which I feel just plays better.
    Sideboard:
    • Burrenton Forge-Tender: This was a difficult cut, but with the additions I made to the board, they just weren't essential anymore.
    • Mirran Crusader: There's no need to have any in the side with 3 in the main.
    • Relic of Progenitus: I understand the value of the card draw over Rest in Peace, but I prefer the more consistent solution. Also the potential issue with Stony Silence, while mostly irrelevant, was still a concern.
    • Sunlance: I don't feel the extra removal is necessary with the other changes to the deck.
    Lands:
    • Concealed Courtyard: Possibly the best card available to this deck for splashing B. Testing showed more than 4 B sources were necessary, so this was cut down to 3 due to later-game issues.
    • Godless Shrine: The other WB land. No more than 2 are necessary. If I require another WB land, I'll add the 4th Courtyard.
    • Mutavault: With 4 copies of Blade Splicer in the deck, it's hard not to include potentially First-Striking lands. These both speed up the deck and improve its late game. What's not to like?
    • Vault of the Archangel: The first card in the deck to take advantage of the B splash. So many creatures in this deck have First Strike (or Double Strike) that this is virtually a land that taps for a one sided Wrath. Even if it can't be fully exploited in this capacity, it is potentially large-scale, repeatable lifegain.
    Creatures:
    • Mirran Crusader: So yeah, I'm playing 3...in the main deck. My thought is, if I can get away with playing a card that hates on most of the beaters of choice in the meta, why not do it? If the meta swings back to Bolts, 2 Brimaz could work here instead.
    • Serra Avenger: See previous. I know that Mery played 2, but Coval did not. I think it's fair to play 2 while still possible. If the meta has too many Bolts, play 2-3 Selfless Spirit instead.
    Sorceries:
    • Lingering Souls: The other reason for the B splash. As Death&Catmix taught us, 2 of these is all it takes to push this deck in matches like old school Jund/Junk and against other would-be midrange/interactive decks. It also makes an easy side out for cards like Grafdigger's and RiP.
    Sideboard:
    • Auriok Champion: This card has absurd interactions with the token producers in this deck and is a nightmare for decks that rely on B or R removal. It can block Shadow, Tasigur, and most Dredge creatures while pumping up your life total. If there's ever a point where slots open in the main, this is a legitimate contender for them.
    • Ethersworn Canonist: Without a proper collection of legitimate "police decks" in the format, combo decks are currently enjoying a resurgence. Storm, Living End, and Ad Nauseum are showing higher numbers and greater success. One of the weaknesses of the Mery and Coval lists was their inability to effectively answer such combos. This card does that.
    • Grafdigger's Cage: 1-mana, artifact graveyard/search hate that plays nicely with Stony Silence? Sign me up! Increased to 2 copies to compensate for the decrease in sideboard graveyard hate.
    • Rest in Peace: While this doesn't play nice with Dusk // Dawn, Relic and Cage don't either. This at least does what it needs to do alongside Stony Silence and, even if removed, still wipes yards.
    • Stony Silence: Mery ran 2. Coval ran 3. 3 is correct. It also trades easily for the 3 Vials.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Is this D&T? E&T? Something else?

    The truth is it benefits from combining aspects of multiple versions of the deck.

    I have benefitted from multiple styles being in the thread and players of multiple styles can benefit from seeing lists like this. Start splitting hairs over differences and that cross-pollination ceases to occur.

    Edit: Was too long, shortened to get to the point.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 3

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Kazral »
    Thanks guys, very informative responses. Honestly the number of variations is overwhelming with this deck; it's hard for me to figure out which "style" I want to be playing at the end of the day! Wescoe's list, Eldrazi and Taxes, Spirits and Taxes, B/W Taxes, they're all so fun and different O_O
    Quote from Mr_Bote »
    Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
    One of the keys to doing well with this deck is understanding that, unlike most decks in the format, there is not now, nor will ever be, an optimized list.

    It doesn't work that way.

    Whether you call it D&T, E&T, W/X Flicker, or Bobo the Wonder Snake; all of the decks are built on the same core concepts and fundamental principles. This is why an E&T thread or Spirits&Taxes thread makes no sense to those who know the deck. It would be like calling every different options package of a car by a different model name. It didn't work for Alfa Romeo, and it won't work for us.

    In fact, it's exactly this kind of splintering that hurts the deck. Constant renaming and reclassification of the deck has made information gathering and assessment of its meta position nearly impossible.

    The best advice for people new to the archetype is to try a traditional white build for a few, then splash, trim, and substitute to your heart's content until you find a build that you feel addresses both the meta and your playstyle.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    I genuinely despise the card (Aether Vial) in this deck. It forces weird curve choices, more complex mid-game decision trees, and is a horrible topdeck later on.

    I've been trying to find ways to cut it this past year, but I keep coming back to it. Many of the cards in this deck, such as Leonin Arbiter, Selfless Spirit, Eldrazi Displacer, Thought-Knot Seer, and, of course, Flickerwisp are simply vastly improved by its inclusion.

    I can definitely understand the reasoning, however.
    It's funny that you should mention "complex mid-game decision trees" as a reason you despise Vial; I think of that as a feature, rather than a bug. It rewards tight play and knowledge of the metagame.
    At large events, especially 2-day events, fatigue is a very real thing. While I do appreciate the flexibility, having more choices isn't always a good thing.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    The problem with Vial is that it gets less valuable as the game goes on. Sure, you can keep a Vial on 3 for when you topdeck a Flickerwisp, but you'll probably have a lot of unused mana late in a game. Typically, this is where manlands prove to be useful; they're our mana sinks in the late game.
    My mana sink of choice is still Eldrazi Displacer, but I really love that card.

    I appreciate the potential value of manlands; Shambling Vent used to be one of my favorite cards in the deck, but lately my goal is just increasing pressure via Displacer. I also would rather have my hands tied by CiPT lands as little as possible.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Chalupacabra »
    As for his other comments, I agree with his assessment on maximizing land usage. Windbrisk Heights is intriguing and I certainly miss Mutavault, but I'm not quite ready to give up Lingering Souls and Wasteland Strangler just yet. I think the B splash deprives the luxury of crazy land choices.
    I think Windbrisk Heights is okay, but I don't know how he can depend on having 3 creatures to attack with, in order to activate it. The removal in Modern is everywhere, and I regularly have opponents that prevent me from having a surplus of creatures to stop them from being overwhelmed.

    Heights is probably better with Lingering Souls, because Souls creates a lot of creatures. But it's clear that for mono-white like this list, he was forced to play Blade Splicer instead, just to be able to go wide enough that Heights has value. It seems fragile to me, especially when your opponents are going to instant-speed remove your Splicer to be able to block your Golem and Mutavault.

    I applaud the deck creator for his metagame choices and I congratulate him on his T8. But I think he got lucky with his matchups and his presumably-confused opponents, because I don't even think I could take his list to my LGS and win with it.
    I think more credit is due than that. It was the right list for the meta, which is the key to the archetype. It's as much a builder's deck as it is a player's deck. There's a lot of smart things going on here and I agree that much of what we used to rely on Vial for we can now do off the back of other cards. That said, the versatility of mana uses Vial allows is huge in the late game. He's not wrong, but that doesn't make it the universal truth. D&T is possibly the most YMMV deck in Modern. I think the potential for explosive starts on the back of a T1 Heights is enormous and, as many Kytheon devotees can attest, It's not that difficult of an effect to trigger. That said, I hate CiPT lands in any deck, but especially here. The hardest part,from my perspective, is having the leftover W to activate while keeping a tight lock on the board...that and the aggravation of making every land drop but being one mana down every turn starting out.
    Quote from CharonsObol »
    Quote from Mullefa »
    Another proponent of Lingering Souls. What matches would you side it in for? What would go out?
    A lot of the old-timers are fans of Lingering Souls. Catmix and I also maindeck it regularly.

    The question should be "which matches do you side it out for?" And the answer is not many of them. The card is basically a 4-for-1, so you only side it out if you would have lost by the time you can get value out of it. I'll occasionally take it out against Burn, because getting double taxed by Eidolon is really bad. It's not great against Bogles or Infect, but it will necessitate that your opponent find something that provides trample or lifelink.
    Once you splash B, you never go back?
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 1

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    ...it is quite different from the "original" ones here.
    I often feel this way with the various directions I run with the D&T core. I've drawn criticism for lists I've posted here in the past when I do things like shave a Flickerwisp or Æther Vial. The response I'd get to what I've been doing with the core of this deck lately would make posting here pointless, and also confuse new players about how they should be starting out with the deck.
    Quote from Stabil0 »
    ...it plays chalice which is not seen in any kind of "traditional" DnT list. Therefore it does not belong in this thread. Simple as that.
    I've played Chalice of the Void in this deck for a long time now, so that's nothing new. The only reason I don't now is that it doesn't mesh well with the 12 1-drops I have in the deck.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
  • 2

    posted a message on Death And Taxes
    So I've bounced this off of a series of Judges, and it appears that Wasteland Strangler has an Arbiter-level rule-bending interaction with Phantasmal Image. This runs counter to the way the card reads and has to do with the nature of the keywords when, if, may, and target. This interaction is important for the Merfolk matchup.

    First, let's look at the text of the card:
    When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield, you may put a card an opponent owns from exile into that player's graveyard. If you do, target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.

    On the surface this seems simple enough, but even the most straightforward execution of this is misunderstood, even by competitive players. To clarify, I'll explain this first.

    To begin with, I'm going to bold the keywords and underline the action tied to each:
    When Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield, you may put a card an opponent owns from exile into that player's graveyard. If you do, target creature gets -3/-3 until end of turn.

    The DCI has ruled that this works in the following manner:
    1. Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield.
    2. Its triggered ability goes on the stack. At this time you must declare your target.
    3. If the ability resolves (the creature is not removed from play some other way beforehand), then the creature gets -3/-3 and you choose a card your opponent owns in exile to place in their graveyard.

    This means, if Strangler would kill the creature and your opponent sacs or bounces or otherwise removes it to prevent this from happening, the card does not go to the graveyard. This part isn't the weird bit, this is just how the card is meant to work.

    Here's where it gets weird.

    Due to the wording of both cards, Wasteland Strangler can kill Phantasmal Image even if your opponent has no cards in exile. As with all other targeting spells, this cannot be countered, even by Kira.

    Here's how it works:
    1. Wasteland Strangler enters the battlefield.
    2. Its triggered ability goes on the stack. At this time you must declare your target.
    3. You declare Phantasmal Image as your target.
    4. Since it has been targeted, as per its text, Phantasmal Image dies.

    Why does this work? There is no stipulation on the when clause that requires a card to be in exile for it to go on the stack. This is only required to resolve the may and if clauses. Since the Phantasmal Image is no longer in play, these keywords are irrelevant.

    I'm not the first person to find this interaction. Even other posters on MTGS have beaten me to this, but answers and discussions are frighteningly inconsistent. I've run this up the judge chain, though, and so far there's no rulings/precedent to refute this interaction.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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