Played Living end at Gencon this year in a few scheduled events and the deck cleaned up. Pretty much every living death deck I saw finished tops and in prizes through out the whole con.
Here are my leanings from the event:
Crypt Incursion is the ultimate mirror breaker. Someone else was using this and I though it was a bit of pure genius. I had been struggling to figure out what was best in the mirror prior to seeing this card and its totally the top choice, which I cannot believe I just said about Crypt Incursion
I think Gnaw to the Bone is the best life gain option for the deck, over Spike Feeder, Brindle Boar, and Kitchen Finks. For the most part if you are playing this any of these it is because you want life, not because you expect to ride that creature in for the win. Gnaw is instant speed and basically resets the game for you. It flat out won me games against mono or heavy red lists all weeks where a kitchen finks or Spike would have done mostly nothing.
So many people side in Grafdiggers cage against this deck just to realize that it quite literally does nothing to stop the combo from going off. It is shocking to me that people are not ready for this list at all.
I think Ridge Rannet is better than Jungle Weaver. On paper Weaver looks better because he has +1 total p/t and reach, but I found that if I was blocking flyers with Jungle weaver it was often because I was already not likely to win that game where if I had more on board power I may have gotten there. Rannet is also out of bolt range mind you. This may or may not be a meta dependent call, and I fully believe you should run at least one of each because of my next point.
Diversifying your 2 mana cyclers won me games. So many people sided in surgical extraction and then proceed to hit my Pale Recluse or Jungle weavers with it, just to find out I was not running a full compliment of them and that I had something like a rannet in my hand. 1 mana cyclers should be maxed out on of course but at the top end, it is pretty flexible and you should have some diversity
Simian spirit guide. 4 of. Period. He got me my win in so many stupid games the deck should be called Simian spirit guide.dec. Honestly the surprise the card provides is amazingly strong, and 2 of them in the opening hand can let you pull off some absolutely back breaking plays like a turn 1 fuliminator mage or a turn 2 cascade if you had some street wraiths near your opener.
In most of the games you play you will see a good number of your cards, so it's not necessarily a bad idea to have 1 of side board cards in the main list as insurance. Since the deck cycles so fast having something like a single gnaw to the bone main deck can mean that you suddenly have a chance against lists you normally did not, and if it is a lackluster card it can come out during sideboarding. It also means that you can make your sideboard have more 2 and 3 of answers as opposed to 4 ofs and lets you handle other decks easier. I only ran 1 Gnaw to the bone but I may start running other cards in flex spots, maybe like a singleton faerie macabre for first round mirrors or even the aforementioned crypt incursion.
Before anything else, WOOOO WE'VE BEEN MOVED TO PROVEN!! ^_^:awesomer::cthulhu::lorax::Patriot:
Okay, now actual commentary.
- In burn match-ups, Gnaw to the Bone is probably more profitable than Spike Feeder, but in aggro match-ups the feeder is often more powerful because you can chump block with it AND gain life. That means a lot when that Tempo player drops Geist of Saint Traft against you.
- I don't think Ridge Rannet is better than Jungle Weaver, but it might be worth using to diversify the 2-mana cyclers, which could be worthwhile depending on the types of graveyard hate you expect in your meta. If you want to diversify 2-mana cyclers though, DON'T USE Igneous Pouncer because it dies to your opponent's worst creature. Pale Recluse and Twisted Abomination are both great as long as you are running the right shocklands.
- Simian Spirit Guide is not an absolute 4-of. It is a fine choice for the deck, but it is often win-more. Some people like it, I personally don't, and even if I used it I would only use 2-3.
- You mentioned Faerie Macabre as sideboard tech but I think most people already use her in the main. Putting sideboard stuff in the main is sometimes a pretty good idea depending on your meta. I think Ingot Chewer, Spike Feeder, Gnaw to the Bone and Jund Charm could all have mainboad potential.
I am currently struggling with the Melira Pod matchups and also Storm is a problem for me. I am really new to modern, this being my first deck I've ever played. Any experienced Living End players or any modern players that could help me?
If you're on a budget, then I'd recommend Pale Recluse over Twisted Abomination. A fully-funded LE deck will run 4-5 shock lands and fetches, but with Recluse you can get away with no fetches and 2 shocks and still get any color in your deck. For your 2 shocks you want 1x Stomping Grounds and 1x Godless Shrine
I think 4 of each Scars land is too many of them; try 4-5 of them. I would also move all the Brindle Boar's to the side and all the Faerie Macabre's to the main because Boar is only good against fast aggro and burn, whereas Faerie is awesome against most everything.
Mainboard Faerie Macabre is your friend against Pod. Jund Charm is also good. Leyline of the Void plan is strong against Pod but not much else, whereas Faerie and Charm are good in many match-ups. The original reason people ever used Void was to kill Storm, but Storm isn't a substantial concern anymore. Other than Storm, Eggs and Pod, Leyline of the Void only shuts down fringe decks.
What kind of Pod decks are you facing? If you're against Melira Pod, try Leyline of Sanctity to stop Murderous Redcap. Leyline of Sanctity may be off color, but it is much more useful than Leyline if the Void.
Finally, Beast Within the seer and Krosan Grip the Pod
I only just found this through your sig. I think this is the most viable post-ban eggs list I've seen (but that's not from an eggs player). How consistently do you hit the Ironworks?
Including the singleton Codex Shredder is brilliant; I never would have come up with that. I fear it might be redundant though because if you have the resources to cycle through your whole library to find it, do you need the infinite loop?
Also, replace Exanguinate with the new Debt to the Deathless. It's harder on colors, but you run almost all plains anyways and a 14 mana kill is easier than a 22 kill.
If Deathrite Shaman didn't kill Living End as a deck, I don't see Ooze being that good at it either. If they want to do nothing with their green mana but try and clear out our graveyards - I say let em. Then just wait till they tap out, cycle a few creatures and cascade. Bye bye ooze.
It won't be doing us any good, that's for certain, but I don't see it killing the deck.
I agree that Scavenging Ooze does not mark the death of Living End competitively. However, Scavenging Ooze is substantially more dangerous than Deathrite Shaman. Scavenging Ooze is essentially the illegitimate child of Deathrite and Tarmogoyf; it kills graveyards for life like Shaman while acting as a beater like Goyf. The only upside I see is that I doubt Ooze will be used alongside Goyf (because it competes as a 2-drop and makes Goyf smaller) or Shaman (too much resource competition).
Hey Dolono! I like your list; it's a bit experimental but also looks strong. A couple comments:
1) Faerie Macabre is generally only used in the main. There isn't any reason not to use Faerie in the side, but Jund Charm is considered stronger out of the side. Jund Charm also gives you Proclasm, which is a strong card vs. aggro.
2) Beast Within as a 4-of is strongly encouraged; I'd drop an Avalanche Riders for it.
3) Thorn of Amethyst is fine tech, but you don't need 3 of them. 1-2 should be enough because of your cascades. You might also consider cutting down on Heroes Reunion in the side, but you want 2 minimum. 3 is probably fine, 4 is overkill.
Mainboard Shriekmaw and sideboard Gaze of Granite are interesting choices; why did you pick those?
Do people who use Architects of Will cut Pale Recluse or something else? Is the extra 1-mana cycler worth the slots? If my meta was aggro-heavy then I'd consider it over Street Wraith, but in general I'm not a big fan of Architects.
While it may not seem like it between our litany of Scars duals and shock/fetch package, I find the deck can scuffle quite a bit when trying to cast 3cc double-color costs on turn 3. Restricting Fulminator Mage so that it can only be cast for 1RR really hinders its usefulness.
In other news, how about that Second Sunrise banning? What implications do you guys feel it will have on the Modern metagame? I predict a stronger showing for Tron decks (yuck), and probably a bump in cheap burn/weenie decks (Eggs was a cheap deck to make, so budget-minded players looking to get into Modern will likely turn to other options.)
This deck is happy that Eggs is less potent, although based on the Eggs forum, Eggs players don't think the deck is dead. Modern Eggs can use Open the Vaults instead, and some players have turned to TronEggs (dafuq?). Ultimately the impact of the banning will be determined by whether or not Eggs is still playable.
Wow, Spiketail Drakeling is a house. If it wasn't double blue, I'd be rebuilding right now to include it.
If only Shardless Agent was Modern-legal, then I'd build a RUG (w/ white splash) version of this deck so quickly your head would spin.
I've thought the same thing before, but cutting black would make Fulminator Mage a turn-4 play usually. Furthermore all the good blue cards (except for Glassdusk Hulk) cost 3 to use, so there would be a ton of turn-3 clutter.
While we're on the topic of splashing, there are a lot of interesting cards White and Blue have to offer this deck. HoweverI personally don't think there are enough good cards to justify a committed 4th-color splash. Furthermore this deck cannot cut any of it's existing colors or else we lose a cascade spell.
Ugh. Third time typing this out (keeps saying my token has expired).
Between RiP and stony silence, I'd go with neither.
Living end is NOT our most powerful card against eggs.
Modified for accuracy. Living End is powerful because it gives us immense board presence while taking away our opponent's board presence. Eggs, however, has no creatures to kill and doesn't give two $hit$ about your creatures. Even if we land 4 dudes on turn 3, they don't care because they still get the turn 4-5 kill frequently. This is also why Burn is a hard match-up for us, but we have Leyline of Sanctity to help against them. Leyline is strong against Eggs until they pull Echoing Truth.
Echoing Truth works against Stony Silence and Rest In Peace too, but both of those make an impact on the game before Echoing Truth hits. Extripate is probably our best non-enchantment hate against Eggs, although Jund Charm and Faerie Macabre should be considered as well.
The best way to beat Eggs is to neuter their combo and THEN start beat down, even if that means man-mode.
Between the different silver bullets against Eggs, I think I'd take Extripate because Eggs can combo off at instant speed (I think), so the Split-Second is very important against them. If it's between Stony Silence and RIP, I'd use Stony Silence because if you land it early, they loose all of their dig, protecting your hoser more. RIP is only better if they've already started comboing off.
Just started on the deck. Running architects, 1 rannet, 3 macabre,3 beast within, and 3 fulminator md. Not sure what are optimal configurations as of now so I'm just trying it out.
What do people normally take out for side boarded games? For uwr and it's ilk, I want all the land destruction + traps and I haven't figured out a generally optimal configuration for that.
Went 2-0 to 2-2 in the daily I ran the deck in...by punting miserably and not macabre'ing before cascading a 2nd time. Deck handles quite well with all the cycling.
Typically, Beast Within and Fulminator Mage are staple 4-ofs. Architects of Will and Valley Rannet are a little controversial because they don't pass the bolt-test, but some people use them.
Living End has a very hard time against Affinity without Chewie, plus our game against RG Tron, Pod and general grave-hate is weakened without it. If you don't see a lot of these match-ups, then you should cut Chewie for Rain of Gore.
Before anything else, WOOOO WE'VE BEEN MOVED TO PROVEN!! ^_^:awesomer::cthulhu::lorax::Patriot:
Okay, now actual commentary.
- In burn match-ups, Gnaw to the Bone is probably more profitable than Spike Feeder, but in aggro match-ups the feeder is often more powerful because you can chump block with it AND gain life. That means a lot when that Tempo player drops Geist of Saint Traft against you.
- I don't think Ridge Rannet is better than Jungle Weaver, but it might be worth using to diversify the 2-mana cyclers, which could be worthwhile depending on the types of graveyard hate you expect in your meta. If you want to diversify 2-mana cyclers though, DON'T USE Igneous Pouncer because it dies to your opponent's worst creature. Pale Recluse and Twisted Abomination are both great as long as you are running the right shocklands.
- Simian Spirit Guide is not an absolute 4-of. It is a fine choice for the deck, but it is often win-more. Some people like it, I personally don't, and even if I used it I would only use 2-3.
- You mentioned Faerie Macabre as sideboard tech but I think most people already use her in the main. Putting sideboard stuff in the main is sometimes a pretty good idea depending on your meta. I think Ingot Chewer, Spike Feeder, Gnaw to the Bone and Jund Charm could all have mainboad potential.
If you're on a budget, then I'd recommend Pale Recluse over Twisted Abomination. A fully-funded LE deck will run 4-5 shock lands and fetches, but with Recluse you can get away with no fetches and 2 shocks and still get any color in your deck. For your 2 shocks you want 1x Stomping Grounds and 1x Godless Shrine
I think 4 of each Scars land is too many of them; try 4-5 of them. I would also move all the Brindle Boar's to the side and all the Faerie Macabre's to the main because Boar is only good against fast aggro and burn, whereas Faerie is awesome against most everything.
What kind of Pod decks are you facing? If you're against Melira Pod, try Leyline of Sanctity to stop Murderous Redcap. Leyline of Sanctity may be off color, but it is much more useful than Leyline if the Void.
Finally, Beast Within the seer and Krosan Grip the Pod
Including the singleton Codex Shredder is brilliant; I never would have come up with that. I fear it might be redundant though because if you have the resources to cycle through your whole library to find it, do you need the infinite loop?
Also, replace Exanguinate with the new Debt to the Deathless. It's harder on colors, but you run almost all plains anyways and a 14 mana kill is easier than a 22 kill.
Does Noxious Revival have a home here?
Why do you prefer Plains to Tron?
I agree that Scavenging Ooze does not mark the death of Living End competitively. However, Scavenging Ooze is substantially more dangerous than Deathrite Shaman. Scavenging Ooze is essentially the illegitimate child of Deathrite and Tarmogoyf; it kills graveyards for life like Shaman while acting as a beater like Goyf. The only upside I see is that I doubt Ooze will be used alongside Goyf (because it competes as a 2-drop and makes Goyf smaller) or Shaman (too much resource competition).
1) Faerie Macabre is generally only used in the main. There isn't any reason not to use Faerie in the side, but Jund Charm is considered stronger out of the side. Jund Charm also gives you Proclasm, which is a strong card vs. aggro.
2) Beast Within as a 4-of is strongly encouraged; I'd drop an Avalanche Riders for it.
3) Thorn of Amethyst is fine tech, but you don't need 3 of them. 1-2 should be enough because of your cascades. You might also consider cutting down on Heroes Reunion in the side, but you want 2 minimum. 3 is probably fine, 4 is overkill.
Mainboard Shriekmaw and sideboard Gaze of Granite are interesting choices; why did you pick those?
This deck is happy that Eggs is less potent, although based on the Eggs forum, Eggs players don't think the deck is dead. Modern Eggs can use Open the Vaults instead, and some players have turned to TronEggs (dafuq?). Ultimately the impact of the banning will be determined by whether or not Eggs is still playable.
I've thought the same thing before, but cutting black would make Fulminator Mage a turn-4 play usually. Furthermore all the good blue cards (except for Glassdusk Hulk) cost 3 to use, so there would be a ton of turn-3 clutter.
If you want to try a blue splash, I think this is where you should start:
Glassdusk Hulk and/or Architects of Will
Aethersnipe (2 blue is a lot but this guy would be boss)
Spiketail Drakeling (2 blue is a lot)
Drift of Phantasms (Transmute into cascade spells)
Mulldrifter (Less appealing than it seems)
Modified for accuracy. Living End is powerful because it gives us immense board presence while taking away our opponent's board presence. Eggs, however, has no creatures to kill and doesn't give two $hit$ about your creatures. Even if we land 4 dudes on turn 3, they don't care because they still get the turn 4-5 kill frequently. This is also why Burn is a hard match-up for us, but we have Leyline of Sanctity to help against them. Leyline is strong against Eggs until they pull Echoing Truth.
Echoing Truth works against Stony Silence and Rest In Peace too, but both of those make an impact on the game before Echoing Truth hits. Extripate is probably our best non-enchantment hate against Eggs, although Jund Charm and Faerie Macabre should be considered as well.
The best way to beat Eggs is to neuter their combo and THEN start beat down, even if that means man-mode.
Typically, Beast Within and Fulminator Mage are staple 4-ofs. Architects of Will and Valley Rannet are a little controversial because they don't pass the bolt-test, but some people use them.