MTG Salvation

Quote from Divisionbyzer0

Top 4 is pretty solid.

I've had this on hold for a bit, as I've been playing more "conservative" lists (ie: less colors lol) in the form of junk, and bant lists.

I'd like to try conundrum sphinx out somewhere in here. Seems the list I used with crystal ball, vess, and jace TMS could support it quite well.

I also wonder what the options for fauna shaman could be. Lists along the lines of the original play too few creatures. I'll probably throw together some kind of list which runs like <= 10 spells, and the rest creatures -- with shaman you can use doublets and singletons pretty effectively and sun titan would be worth running because the curve would be low, and he'd have a lot of good targets.

Conundrum Sphix would be interesting. Jace TMS just doesn't seem that great in Bant. I mean sure, you get card draw and it can give you a bit of gas, but generally speaking, if I drop an Elspeth or a Rafiq instead of a Jace, I'm probably going to win that turn or the next. Jace takes a bit longer.

Fauna shaman really demands that you use a vengevine list. But it is an interesting though.

Quote from ponyoninja

Could Grave Titan find a spot in the deck? With all the mana sources this deck runs you could possibly play it turn 4 or 5.

You could but I think that Sun Titan would be better off since you can just recur your Knights, Monks, and Escorts non-stop along with your manadorks. Heh.

Quote from jshiggins

@zSolaris: I have found (through experience and reading this thread) that Spreading Seas is not as good as it used to be. Mana Leak is amazing for a 2drop, and Tec edge against man lands is better imo.

Same thing also on BSA, I find JarJar more intimidating, especially since it forces your opponent (assuming a non-black deck) to throw a boardsweep that may be a loss overall for them

I am running Mana Leak as a 4 of and loving it. TecEdge is working nicely but I will test with fewer Spreading Seas and more TecEdges.

Jar Jar is cool and all but I love my BSAs. With four mainboard counters and a total of seven possible, I think protecting her will be doable.

Quote from Mr.E

But ugh, that manabase is a train wreck, let alone other problems. Where's the manlands, the other two Marsh Flats, what's with the colorless lands? If Esper Charm isn't reason enough to splash black, Creeping Tar Pit is.

I'm going to assume you're talking to me with the second half.

I have had no problems with this mana base. I've used it before in several random UBW builds (Jacerator, Mill, Polymorph control, etc.) and I've almost never had mana problems. In fact, my mana-dork filled Bant deck seems to have more.

There are three celestial colonnades. There are my manlands. I do admit, having more Mash Flats may be beneficial but I haven't run into any issues yet (I have a knack for drawing the two I've been using consistently).

The Colorless lands are Tectonic Edges. You know. Those things that kill Manlands?

Also, Esper Charms are there. Four of them. In the main board.

Glimpse the Unthinkable and Baneslayer Angel.



Oh and a set of Judge Foil Orim's Chants.

I'm gonna go with Archive Trap and Archmage Ascension from the more recent sets.

List I'm going to try once I get my hands on some Esper Charms and a few of the missing lands.





Yes, I know there are no Jaces. Part of the purpose of the deck to try to play without them (not for budget reasons, I just don't like playing him). Deck seems to be doing well on MWS.

Needs Esper Charm, Wall of Omens, and Day of Judgment.

Cut Sleep, Blinding Mage, and Twitch. None are really that great. Scepter of Dominance probably will work better for a reoccurring tap-engine.

Also, what exactly do you plan to target with Sun Titan? You have very few 3 CMC or lower permanents....unless you're going after lands.

Quote from Divisionbyzer0

How does that list work out for you?


I've thought of doing a creature heavy build like the old extended dark bant zoo lists which ran ancient ziggeraut and under 10 spells.

It's done fairly well. It does have problems with the older version of Jund that runs a great deal of removal (hence the Thornlings in the sideboard, however the newer Jund is a much better matchup) but otherwise, it steamrolls Naya (Vengevine, Boss, etc.) and holds its ground against UW Control (really depends on who gets the better draw....and remembering to free your manlands via pulse to the Spreading Seas....yes I've made this mistake....too many times....). I've only played Polymorph a few times but every time it's played very well.

I haven't exactly won any FNM's/other events but I've gotten top four in almost every FNM for the past four months (our FNMs are normally around 28 people with a wide spread of archetypes. UW Control, Polymorph, Mythic Bant, Jund, Naya, you name it.) and did well at a few large PTQs (never broke top eight...mainly because I forget to pulse the spreading seas...;__; ).

The stats in my signature are off. Haven't updated it for a long time now. Hahaha.

Interesting to see someone else play with black in Bant. I've been playing what I like to call "Pulse Bant" for some time which, for all extents and purposes, is Mythic/Conscription Bant with removal in the form of Maelstrom Pulse. I haven't updated my sideboard (more or less since I change it every time I go to an FNM or something) but here is my list:

1. Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2. Maelstrom Pulse
3. Path to Exile
4. Baneslayer Angel
5. Knight of the Reliquary

Now I must be crazy because I don't have Jace in the list, right? While I do admit that Jace is good, probably would hit number six on my list, but he fits into one archetype. Control. Albeit, it is a powerful archetype, but he isn't versatile. The above five can be played in a variety of archetypes be it aggro, control, midrange, combo, etc.

Interesting. I suggest perhaps running Maelstrom Pulse instead of Consuming Vapors? CV is great but Pulse does the same and a little more.

As suggested, Dauntless Escort = win. I'd try to fit it as a four of mainboard (perhaps -1 Sun Titan, -2 Grim Discovery, -1 Pacifism, +4 Dauntless Escorts?)

Quote from tubanazi

I find this hilarious. The Iraqi people would have eventually revolted and taken care of things for themselves. Going to war with Iraq was a terrible idea and esspecially the way he went about doing it. George lied to the American people and I find that sickening. He was arguably one of the WORST presidents of U.S. history.

People have been saying that about North Korea for the past fifty some-odd years. And Cuba. And hell, every communist country save China (albeit, they were right in Europe but not so much elsewhere).

Waiting it out? Not a good idea.



Whilst I don't think that Bush will be considered a great president, I don't think he deserve all the mud being flung at him saying he is the worst president of all time, etc. etc.

Why do I say this? Because, as stated before, Bush did rally the nation after the 9/11 attacks. He did take measures to increase national security and awareness. You can argue that any president (or, more specifically, Al Gore) could've done it. You might be right. However, it wasn't any guy who did it, it was George Bush. Men are remembered for what they do, not what they could have done.

On top of that, Bush did raise international attention to the situation in Darfur, he responded much quicker than presidents past to natural disasters in the Gulf (especially when faced with one the size of New Orleans).

That said, I am not a fan of some of the other things he did during his presidency. Which is why, when history does take a look back at Bush's presidency, it will see both the good and the bad. I think that Bush will come out being known as a decent president (certainly better than Nixon).

The one and only time I had Jaces in my deck, I groaned every time I drew him. Not because he was a bad card, but he wasn't the game winning bomb I needed. Like jonnyjonski said, Rafiq and Finest Hour are always great to draw and basically say "If you don't have an answer, I win!". Elspeth does the same.

Jace really doesn't have a home in Bant, in my opinion, so playing without them isn't that hard. But of course, that is just my opinion.

Also, on the Negate vs. Mana Leak discussion, I would go with Deprive or Negate. Mana Leak is great early game but the problem is, early game non-NLB Bant is aggro. Mana Leak messes up our tempo as much as it messes up our opponents.

Voted 30$ but my limit really is about 25$. Spent that much on my first Elspeth (other got through trading for about the same value).

Only other mythics I've bought are a playset of Jace Belern at 5$ a pop. Traded for all the other ones/pulled them. Heh.

Quote from Andar

AFAIK they made the anime series towards much younger audience than the manga, so if someone likes the series they might try the manga instead. I haven't tried either though. It is definately shonen though.

While I like how some of the characters are portrayed in the anime over the manga, the manga does seem truer to the Bones style. In any case, I like both and I probably should stop being so lazy and catch up on the anime.