LOVE IT! Kiln Fiend is a card I've wanted to play in Legacy ever since I saw it and it looks like your list is very tight. My hats off to you...and your awesome sig.
Lava Dart is extremely cool tech since you can cast it twice in a turn if you have to.
Have you thought of any creature pump to make better use of berserk? Obv, if you throw in Might of Old Krosa or Invigorate or something you lose some synergy with Quirion Dryad, but Invigorate in particular is a free +7/+4 for Kiln Fiend... I don't know, I guess one would have to experiment, but I like your list a LOT!
The advantage over traditional Berserk stompy is that it's seemingly more consistent... you have infy threats in your deck so a well-placed Swords to Plowshares doesn't hamper you as much as it would, say, targeting a Kavu Predator in G/W Stomp. It's more Zoo-like (obviously it's closer to Sligh, but I'm just saying) than other Berserk decks. I'll have to do some testing with this.
"Swing with Ichorclaw Myr? Oh, you'll block? Of course! You'd hate to get a poison counter... well, after blockers: Berserk, looks like you'll be getting many poison counters."
Well, Mind's Desire would be great, let you combo off at super low life, and basically be broken, but it is vulnerable to the dreaded "deck check." Mind's Desire has been banned for a long time.
LMAO! I'm sorry, the way you put that was so damn funny.
To the guy who had the list, Infernal Tutor is the card you are missing. Start there.
Has to be Imprint! There's a new Mox in the set, and Imprint has tons of design space to be explored, plus it's awesome! ...Affinity, eh, I REALLY don't think they'd dare to bring that back... the ONLY reason would be to strengthen the Legacy Affinity deck which no one plays and is completely tier 3 terrible.
Entwine, I believe MaRo said is a mechanic that came to him in a dream (literally), I dunno, they just did multikicker in the last block and entwine is similar...it's just an awkward kicker.
Modular, I'd be happy with, I always thought that was a fun mechanic, but I doubt that's the one with the information we have now.
All I can say is I hope it's imprint and THANK GOD it's not Sunburst. Sunburst is a GAWD AwFuL mechanic. The only notable card is Engineered Explosives and the rest are all trash... in fact the crappiest card in my crap cube is a sunburst card... and it's utterly unplayable. cough*crap*cough
I dont disagree with what you said as its all true. But I have them and tried on multiple occasions, each time they were meh. Coming down a turn later and for one more mana made him worst and his unearth ability never saw blood as i play in aggro heavy meta would get chumped. However, Spark Elemental like his big brother can be chumped as well, but can come down a turn sooner (aka less creatures) and for 1 less mana leaving you to follow up with another bolt. So far, he has sped up my deck and i havent had any issues with him being a 3 for 1 or killing a 3/3 nacatyl (if they so desire) which can do some serious damage. But i will agree he shines in the first two turns of the game. To me he is almost superior then Hellspark as everytime i play Hellspark his unearth is irrelevant because in most games it seems they have big creatures with big butts that chump it into oblivion by that time. So to me he is a 3/1 for 2
I wish i liked hellspark elemental better but he has never done anything for me i was wishing i have drawn a different card. So far the 3 for 1 spark elemental is working out for me tho. Once/ if he starts letting me down i will recant my ideas.
Spark Elemental is an underrated card IMO (He's not good though, hold on everyone); it's a great turn 1 play (better than any other first turn play burn has) and when sparky is in your opening hand it's basically Leyline of the Lightning Bolt as your opponent just starts at 17... unfortunately when you draw him late in game you just sit there looking like a chode. I drew into a Spark Elemental when my opponent had a Tombstalker on his field once and said "no more Spark Elemental for me" ...he's just not as good as Hellspark because with Hellspark Elemental can come back and hit 'em again or take another one of their creatures out... Spark Elemental is just a situational lighting bolt that can be removed.
I think it is quite possible though. WotC usually prints 1-2 viable cards for legacy in the slew of standard cards. I don't know what I'd want more though...an infect creature with troll shroud or one with evasion... With 4 rancors and 4 berserks I'd probably say troll shroud. Or is both too much to ask for?
Definitely troll shroud... in my opinion it's very possible they could print a troll shrouded infect creature to considering Troll Ascetic was first printed in the original Mirrodin, perhaps he's contracted an "infection" in the time that's passed...:)
Here's hoping.
EDIT: Ichorclaw Myr was just spoiled... maybe it could fit? may-beeeeeeee??? eh, it's a 1/1 for 2 that self-pumps when blocked... it's certianly worth some testing maybe. especially in a deck with Lotus Petal and/or Elvish Spirit Guide.
I'll keep watching the spoilers, I'm still giddy for Infect and I think SoM is gonna be the best set evar!
Infect is certainly temping. Even a 1/1 Infect for G would open up the window for turn two kills with a single Might/Invigorate and a single Berserk, which would happen a lot more frequently than our current turn two kill options.
The problem with Infect is that the creatures deal NO regular damage to a player. Instead, they deal damage directly in the form of poison counters. Hit a player with a 2/2 Infect creature when they are at 20 life and they get 2 poison counters, but remain at 20 life. Thus, Infect creatures lack synergy with our main victory condition - smashing our opponent down to zero life as quickly as possible.
To even be considered, an Infect creature would need to be low casting cast (1cc, possibly 2cc) and have evasion of some kind. Two power is also highly desirable, as that allows a kill with any two card combination of Berserk, Invigorate, and Might (except for two Berserks). And I just can't see that happening. Poison counters and evasion is too powerful of a combination for a low CC creature in a Standard environment with plenty of pump available.
Basically, since an Infect creature does not synergize with our other dudes, it needs to win the game by itself if it hits the table. A 2/x with Infect and Flying (or Ledgewalker fake flying) for GG might warrant testing. Anything less and I doubt I would even bother.
You make good points. I was hoping there would be enough cheap infect creatures to make an entire creaturebase out of them, but then that would cease to be "predator" stompy and become a deck on its own. Invigorate seems made for infect creatures (preferably a hasty infect creature)! Of course with no actual spoilers or anything we should probably wait to see what comes out of SoM... I kinda jumped the gun, I'm just more than a little intrigued at the prospect of an infected berserk deck, I'll probably test it once the set comes out.
I can't wait to be throwing some "Infect" creatures from Scars of Mirrodin in here this fall... hopefully! Does anyone else think this could be an amazing idea? (obviously with no spoilers yet, it's hard to guage, but if they make the infect creatures good like Mark Rosewater says they're going to, I think we'll be Berserking for poison counters very soon!)
I guess it's a good thing nobody plays BSA in T1.5! (actually, as an aside, I played in a Legacy tournament yesterday and had an opponent lay down a BSA! He was playing a BWG Rockish control build... it was weird seeing the angel though... and unfortunately for me I was playing Tombstalker.)
This probably doesn't need to be said, but to anyone looking to build this deck, DO NOT run Savannah... I ran 2 Trops, 2 Tundras, and 2 Savannahs at first because I only owned 2 copies of Trop and Tundra, but make no mistake this will noticably hurt your manabase. Spend the extra money, this is Legacy. The Savannah substitution rears it's ugly head most noticably in the mirror, where a skilled New Horizons player will be able to keep you off blue with Wasteland cycling and stifling.
Just a heads up to any new players who may think that because it's on color it's a suitable substitute... it's not even close.
The problem playing against merfolk is annoying because they have just as strong a counterpackage as us and we MUST counter their vial otherwise we lose hardcore. LoA's islandwalking ability is a beating if we can't answer him we simply lose 99% of the time via merfolk beats. Wasteland is meh against them but their wasteland is insane against us and our fragile manabase where we try to support KotR, terravore, and sometimes clique all in one deck. Also I heard mutavault isn't the only good thing with standstill. Vial + standstill onboard is atrocious synergy.
Vial can be stifled when you're swinging in with massive beaters... I don't know. Yeah Aether Vial is a huge threat, but we're talking about playing against a deck with zero removal options that target the battlefield, and we're rocking a deck that is throwing down turn two 3/4's and turn 3 6/6's ... you get one of those down and you're golden. They can't have amazing counter and a fast creature start and aether vial AND land to play it all... they have to be weak somewhere and if they are we should be good. Maybe I was just getting lucky in all the matches I've played against Merfolk, they never got Vial online I don't think, but I still think it's a good MU.
I'm curious to hear people's opinions about the God cat in this deck. I've played a lot of decks: started with burn, then :symw::symg::symr: enchantress, goblins, Naya zoo, domain zoo, and merfolk to a lesser extent, but my favorite deck to play has been zoo and I can't say more good things about Qasali Godcat, when I first started playing this deck I put him in as a 1-of MB because I just couldn't imagine playing a GW deck without him. He gives us game-one answers to cards that can wreck our plans (Aforementioned Aether Vial, etc.) and he is a beater if necessary... I don't think he's a 4-of, not even a 3-of, but 2 or 1 copies could go a long way...
If not pridemage then something else... MB Krosan Grip seems less than optimal since it's just a dead card if you don't find a valuable target. MB bounce could be good, Echoing Truth perhaps?? What does everyone think?
Zoo is about even. The newer builds with Price of Progress and Fireblast are scarier for the deck, though if those stick around after the MT banning remains to be seen.
Goblins is somewhat unfavorable.
Merfolk is a bit rougher than Goblins.
You have great matchups against ANT and Reanimator.
Really?? I've found Merfolk to be one of the easiest matchups for this deck and Reanimator to be harder to deal with. I don't run Karakas though... and I'm strongly considering it.
Merfolk is just an auto-win for me. Counter + EE + removal + big beefy creatures? How do you lose to Merfolk? They make our anti-land package less useful, but wasteland still stops them from locking us out with Standstill/Mutavault combo... as for Islandwalk... they have a four-of that they can't tutor for that provides them with a way to swing at us... are you telling me that you're not using your Forces and Swords' on that? Merfolk is not a rough matchup ... New Horizons (IMHO) destroys Merfolk.
As for Goblins I have not playtested against, but I don't expect it to be TOO big of a problem, I'd expect it to be a coin-flip at the worst, maybe I'm wrong there though.
Lava Dart is extremely cool tech since you can cast it twice in a turn if you have to.
Have you thought of any creature pump to make better use of berserk? Obv, if you throw in Might of Old Krosa or Invigorate or something you lose some synergy with Quirion Dryad, but Invigorate in particular is a free +7/+4 for Kiln Fiend... I don't know, I guess one would have to experiment, but I like your list a LOT!
The advantage over traditional Berserk stompy is that it's seemingly more consistent... you have infy threats in your deck so a well-placed Swords to Plowshares doesn't hamper you as much as it would, say, targeting a Kavu Predator in G/W Stomp. It's more Zoo-like (obviously it's closer to Sligh, but I'm just saying) than other Berserk decks. I'll have to do some testing with this.
LMAO! I'm sorry, the way you put that was so damn funny.
To the guy who had the list, Infernal Tutor is the card you are missing. Start there.
Entwine, I believe MaRo said is a mechanic that came to him in a dream (literally), I dunno, they just did multikicker in the last block and entwine is similar...it's just an awkward kicker.
Modular, I'd be happy with, I always thought that was a fun mechanic, but I doubt that's the one with the information we have now.
All I can say is I hope it's imprint and THANK GOD it's not Sunburst. Sunburst is a GAWD AwFuL mechanic. The only notable card is Engineered Explosives and the rest are all trash... in fact the crappiest card in my crap cube is a sunburst card... and it's utterly unplayable. cough*crap*cough
Spark Elemental is an underrated card IMO (He's not good though, hold on everyone); it's a great turn 1 play (better than any other first turn play burn has) and when sparky is in your opening hand it's basically Leyline of the Lightning Bolt as your opponent just starts at 17... unfortunately when you draw him late in game you just sit there looking like a chode. I drew into a Spark Elemental when my opponent had a Tombstalker on his field once and said "no more Spark Elemental for me" ...he's just not as good as Hellspark because with Hellspark Elemental can come back and hit 'em again or take another one of their creatures out... Spark Elemental is just a situational lighting bolt that can be removed.
Definitely troll shroud... in my opinion it's very possible they could print a troll shrouded infect creature to considering Troll Ascetic was first printed in the original Mirrodin, perhaps he's contracted an "infection" in the time that's passed...:)
Here's hoping.
EDIT: Ichorclaw Myr was just spoiled... maybe it could fit? may-beeeeeeee??? eh, it's a 1/1 for 2 that self-pumps when blocked... it's certianly worth some testing maybe. especially in a deck with Lotus Petal and/or Elvish Spirit Guide.
I'll keep watching the spoilers, I'm still giddy for Infect and I think SoM is gonna be the best set evar!
You make good points. I was hoping there would be enough cheap infect creatures to make an entire creaturebase out of them, but then that would cease to be "predator" stompy and become a deck on its own. Invigorate seems made for infect creatures (preferably a hasty infect creature)! Of course with no actual spoilers or anything we should probably wait to see what comes out of SoM... I kinda jumped the gun, I'm just more than a little intrigued at the prospect of an infected berserk deck, I'll probably test it once the set comes out.
I disagree, M10 artwork so much better... the original art looks like a bunch of dots... it's like what I might see if I were on acid.
Just a heads up to any new players who may think that because it's on color it's a suitable substitute... it's not even close.
Vial can be stifled when you're swinging in with massive beaters... I don't know. Yeah Aether Vial is a huge threat, but we're talking about playing against a deck with zero removal options that target the battlefield, and we're rocking a deck that is throwing down turn two 3/4's and turn 3 6/6's ... you get one of those down and you're golden. They can't have amazing counter and a fast creature start and aether vial AND land to play it all... they have to be weak somewhere and if they are we should be good. Maybe I was just getting lucky in all the matches I've played against Merfolk, they never got Vial online I don't think, but I still think it's a good MU.
I'm curious to hear people's opinions about the God cat in this deck. I've played a lot of decks: started with burn, then :symw::symg::symr: enchantress, goblins, Naya zoo, domain zoo, and merfolk to a lesser extent, but my favorite deck to play has been zoo and I can't say more good things about Qasali Godcat, when I first started playing this deck I put him in as a 1-of MB because I just couldn't imagine playing a GW deck without him. He gives us game-one answers to cards that can wreck our plans (Aforementioned Aether Vial, etc.) and he is a beater if necessary... I don't think he's a 4-of, not even a 3-of, but 2 or 1 copies could go a long way...
If not pridemage then something else... MB Krosan Grip seems less than optimal since it's just a dead card if you don't find a valuable target. MB bounce could be good, Echoing Truth perhaps?? What does everyone think?
Really?? I've found Merfolk to be one of the easiest matchups for this deck and Reanimator to be harder to deal with. I don't run Karakas though... and I'm strongly considering it.
Merfolk is just an auto-win for me. Counter + EE + removal + big beefy creatures? How do you lose to Merfolk? They make our anti-land package less useful, but wasteland still stops them from locking us out with Standstill/Mutavault combo... as for Islandwalk... they have a four-of that they can't tutor for that provides them with a way to swing at us... are you telling me that you're not using your Forces and Swords' on that? Merfolk is not a rough matchup ... New Horizons (IMHO) destroys Merfolk.
As for Goblins I have not playtested against, but I don't expect it to be TOO big of a problem, I'd expect it to be a coin-flip at the worst, maybe I'm wrong there though.