Quote from RainarYou miss out on a couple of things here; Adding more cards doesn't only add more viable strategies; it als removes others from the 'viable' list. Otherwise, standard decks would be viable in Legacy, since they were viable in a smaller card pool, not?
My point here is that the difference between Modern and Overextended are quite insignificant. Take modern and add more cards: lose x archetypes, gain x archetypes; or the other way around of course. It feels to me you really badly want to play certain cards; well, go make them work in Legacy, be creative. The new format is not intended to fully replace Legacy, at least not in the foreseeable future.
Quote from KirblarHow on earth can you say that when Modern was a PTQ format a year ago! Modern is what Extended was in the PT: San Juan qualifier season, with most of the degenerate combos banned! There's tons of playtesting put into the format already because the format once existed! You're seeing what you want to see.
Quote from Zoomer3989The advantage of Modern over any of the other format types is that WOTC has taken a direct interest. That is the only reason anyone needs - WOTC is much more willing to been interested in internal projects then external projects formed from ideas.
And while I agree that forced diversity is negligible at best in terms of results, if the Hypergenisis is banned, I do not think diversity will be an issue.
Quote from KirblarNo offense, but your desire for an Invasion/Masques starting point is completely clouding your ability to analyze things here.
Quote from PoopingmypantsI agree. It looks like Modern will be a format. Now it's just when.
Quote from QDIYou know MM has been willingly left out of Overextended? Just to avoid getting Brainstorm, Dark ritual...
Quote from HinotamaI'm honestly more worried about Gush than Brainstorm.
You know, the one that is actually banned in legacy.
Well, I really love to draw cards—so this is more hope than anything else. In my opinion drawing two cards for free in Vintage is a lot better than drawing two cards for free in Legacy. The games are usually a lot longer in Legacy since the cards you're drawing are a lot more balanced. I realize that comparing Vintage and Legacy is like comparing apples to oranges; however, time has proven that unrestricting Gush wasn't a huge mistake in Vintage, and this leads me to believe that its power level has been toned down enough to be fair in Legacy.
I feel like a number of combo decks could emerge if Gush were legal in the Legacy. A deck like ANT wouldn't be able to play it out of fear of hitting it off an Ad Nauseam. Also, the High Tide deck couldn't gain a lot of value from Gush. Time Spiral and High Tide aren't very synergistic with Gush.
Gush doesn't have anything like Mental Misstep to keep it in check, which is unfortunate, however the tempo loss a Legacy deck would suffer from using its alternate cost might be enough to level out its power. A bonus to unbanning Gush is that it would force people to play smarter with their Wastelands. If every land in your deck is “gushable” then your opponent will have to think twice about using Wasteland.
Quote from KirblarYou should probably stop calling it Legacy Lite if you want people to stop calling it that.
The tournament results prove nothing regarding people favoring Overextended versus Modern. They only show that lots and lots of people will show up for a freeroll tournament using cards that they own, unfortunately.
Quote from Pein@ktkenshinx If those combo decks are already good without brainstorm, how good would they be with it?
On the other hand, those results don't mean much, since the format is not stablished and tier1/tier2/tier3 decks are not known by the players, they just play the deck they like and think will do best. But until the format becomes official and everybody, including pros, start playing it, we won't know its real form, be it overextended or modern. What I do know, however, is that 12post will be a good deck because it's the deck I've been working on since the modern announcement and it works very well, although the lists in that link are worse than mine hehe.
Oh, come on, LOL, have you looked at the lists, they need a lot of work. And I'm only looking at those which did 4-0. Look at the burn deck for instance, bad, bad deck. Where are the lavamancers? Arc trail? Hell's thunder? No lava spike. Looks like some guy with standard cards bought some shocklands and was ready to get some free tix!
Side note: combo decks do much better in undefined formats.
Quote from Gwar_The_TrolleTHe thing is, no matter where we start the format, it will ALWAYS be arbitary.
Masques? First Reprintable set. Arbitrary.
IPA? First "Modern Magic Philosophy" Block? Arbitrary.
Mirrodin? New Frames? Arbitrary.
That being said, it is a little unfortunate that there is the potential for confusion ala Dual Decks, but that's the price we pay for a reasonable and affordable Eternal Format.
Quote from PeinThe starting set has already been decided anyways. They are not gonna change it because some people want it somewhere else... People wanted EDH but they changed it to commander. You get the idea. Plus it's Forsythe's election, good luck :D.
Quote from PeinHonestly, I don't care too much if it's invasion forward or mirrodin forward provided they ban the right cards. What I don't want is masques, because they would have to ban brainstorm, dark ritual, rishadan port, misdirection, and others I don't remember now. And the non-ban worthy are useless. Yes some cards would be lost like rebels but that is gonna happen no matter where you draw the line.
Invasion forward would mean vindicate and pernicious deed would be legal and its prices would skyrocket unless reprinted (that is not a problem if they do). But I see a little problem with the deed because it has the old design of destroying creatures artifacts and enchantments instead of nonlands, destroying manlands for example.
And odyssey would bring standstill, which I don't like. The only reason I don't like mirrodin forward is the original fetches and stifle are out, but they can be reprinted in a core set one of these years.
Quote from sadgasmI don't understand the mass amounts of complaining about the format starting with Mirrodin/8th. To me it makes perfect sense because that is the time when the Modern idea of inter-block design started. It is also when a lot of the Modern design practices came in. Not to mention its not that hard to find out what cards are legal in the format if you have any doubts. Cards like Wild Mongrel having a version with the modern frame isn't that big of a deal because the vast majority of people playing this format are likely to be people who are into the competitive scene anyway and will most likely know what blocks are legal.
Quote from BurningPaladinI am confused.
I discounted overextended because the cut off point was invasion because of MTGO.
Was it changed to Mercadian Masques recently?
If so, Bravo I say, I would be interested.
Its the only really logical cut off point, end of reserve list anything that gets too expensive can be reprinted in some way, nuff said.
I mean the whole point is to mirror the success of legacy but with out the massive price tag and that is the most logical way to do it.
Quote from jturphyMore original duals are no where near $130. Maybe Trop. Isle and Underground River, but other than those two they can all be had under $100, and at least 5 of the 10 can be had for under $50.
Quote from JakeCourtneyWouldn't this not be any cheaper than Standard? I mean people will find the dominate archetypes and all the cards will rise in price.
Magic really needs to do something to keep formats affordable. It's just pure crazy the amount of money you have to spend to have a fighting chance.
They need to start reprinting cards, screw the collectors.
Quote from PeinPlayer A tells the newb player B if he wants to join his Modern playgroup.
A - So wanna join to play Modern? Much better than $tandard, more fun and more cheap?
B - Ok but what cards can I play? I started to play 3 months ago.
A - Any card with the modern card frame. It's just that easy.
B - Sounds good. I was worried because I couldn't play competitive $tandard without spending 350$ on 4 cards to see them rotate some months later. And legacy, I asked for the price of the duals and thought it was a joke.
Quote from aregandI think the overextended format proposed by Gavin V starts at Invasion. At least in his original article. Part of the reasoning to exclude masques was that it wouldnt 'feel' like legacy but add extra deck archetypes that were too slow for legacy but would be excluded if starting at mirrodin or legacy. I feel more is better. Smaller format will be faerieblade plus few others. Reason legacy is popular is that it has so much variety. Yes eventually more cards will enter but in beginning it might be dominated by certain archetypes like standard and previous extended sometimes was. Some people prefer that - I would prefer it to be like legacy variety without the huge costs.
Quote from PeinIt doesn't matter if an earlier cutoff would give more decks to the format. This is an eternal format that grows every year. That means, every year new decks are coming in. It doesn't matter if a few decks are out of the format because new ones are coming in with every new set.
Quote from purklefluffall those arguing that "more sets equals better" are sort of missing the point.
i mean, where do you draw the line? what if the set before onslaught or masques has "a lot to offer"... why not include that one as well?
the further back you go, the more the format becomes like a smaller legacy. with Modern, it feels like a good middle ground and has room to expand and develop through the new sets rather than relying on decks from the oldest parts of the format. that's a healthy format. wouldn't you agree?
Quote from Pein#1 card people want from masques is probably brainstorm, that broken ancestral recall with fetches. Then #2 is probably dark ritual.