Mindslicer is a card I've continued to keep in the deck despite rarely tutoring for or casting when drawn it was mostly the final nail in the coffin when resolving Living Death triggers.
Elvish Reclaimer may have the same issues as two of the cuts but fits the reusable tutoring and lands matter packages nicely so I'll give it a try.
I recently tore down a few more expensive lists and am reinvesting into a budget chromatic 32. I'm leaning towards a tiered approach to the budget $50/100/200.
This list was partially inspired by the standard decks of my youth specifically masques/invasion Fires of Yavimaya aggro notably missing from the deck are mana dorks and stone rain effects as neither are particularly effective in EDH.
The abundance of card draw from having larger creatures gives some resiliency to boardwipes backed with a smattering of counter magic to protect the team.
A fresh batch of updates after taking a turn under the microscope of tstorm823's random deck of the week not in love with trading a mana-producing land for Dark Depths but we'll see how it goes
My first instinct was to say "noooo" to the depths combo since it's historically been so bad for me, but I haven't ever had a depths deck quite as controlling as this. My suspicion is that by the time you're ready to start dropping depths you will have Loam online and you'll likely have ground your opponents out of resources, so Depths could wind up being an efficient finisher for you. I'll bookmark your thread so I can hear how it all goes
I look forward to chaining activations every turn and feeding the 20/20 token to Savra... not saying it's good but would be funny.
It doesn't look like you really have any way to draw cards. If you get your graveyard exiled with only one or two cards in hand it seems like you'd run out of steam extremely fast. I feel like this deck would really enjoy having a Skullclamp and it would also help with this problem.
I like bone shredder more due to the Echo playing well with the various gravepacts
With all your land recursion Memorial to Folly could work as a bad Genesis. Also, with your dredge/land package Azusa, Lost but Seeking is a really good ramp creature. Especially with all your sacrifice lands.
My most recent project of late has been cutting lands that come into play tapped more than not the Cycling lands are cantrips that occasionally "morph" into mana sources.
No single card has failed to impress me over the last couple of years as much as Azusa, Lost but Seeking. I'm not sure how but even in a windgrace lands matter list with 45+ lands she did less than nothing.
This deck looks like it has a hard time actually getting people dead in an efficient amount of time. Might be worth slotting in Craterhoof Behemoth to end the game with Worm Harvest.
This is a legitimate concern. The way I end up playing it more than not I attempt to live in 2nd place and fly under the radar until I resolve Living death or Rise of the Dark Realms and create an avalanche of card advantage or simply combo out with Jarad
As to your list, I like it quite a bit. I always felt Savra was kind of tough to make work well, but maybe she ends up doing well with the right support which you seem to have here. Any thoughts to Chainer, Dementia Master? I can see where the life payment would be a big deal since Savra is also costing life. But he seems like he fits in the recursion theme pretty well.
The Deck is pretty color intensive as it stands BBB is a bit rough even running Urborg
What about Gray Merchant of Asphodel and/or Kokusho, the Evening Star as ways to gain some much-needed life as well as helping to close out the game? I know Savra helps with this as well, so maybe she is enough life gain to offset her own ability.
Kokusho, the Evening Star has been in a small pile of cards that has never quite made the cut partially because when the list was initially created it was banned. Gray Merchant of Asphodel Lived in a zombie tribal list I had for a while. When it went away I didn't really think to port it over here, I'll give it a try.
I have never been a fan of Worm Harvest but it seems like it could do good work here since the tokens are both colors. How good has this card been?
You do seem kind of light on the sac outlets. Has this ever come up as a problem? I do agree with one of the comments that Viscera Seer seems good for this deck. Maybe Carrion Feeder works as well. I was also disappointed that you had Phyrexian Plaguelord and replaced it with Yawgmoth. Not that it isn't a good idea, but I really like the Plaguelord and I don't see many lists running it (it usually isn't good enough for mine either).
Occasionally I feel the lack of outlets but the deck can generally play a straight one for one control grind to buy time until I find them.
* Green Sun's Zenith plus Varolz, the Scar Striped plus Dryad Arbor would be a pretty solid set of changes that would improve consistency and functionally give you +2 sac outlets. I think Varolz's ability actually coincides with the gameplan even more than Karador, since you're probably fine to go ahead and eat some of your own dudes to make a 15/15 or something.
Green Sun's Zenith fits the reusable tutor thing I've got going on not being able to hit black creatures is a bit concerning as mostly I'm tutoring for answers. Varolz, the Scar-Striped lives in the same pile of near misses with Kokusho, the Evening Star he also has a significant drawback of costing 3 mana which I have a surplus of creatures at that CMC.
* Any deck that plays Genesis and Life from the Loam should consider playing entomb, and only not be playing it for a very good reason (e.g. desire to minimize tutors). As a side note, I think this deck would benefit from Buried Alive enough to play it -- the combination of getting 3 dredge pieces, or genesis + plaguecrafter + etc. is very good. If it were my deck I most likely would just play Entomb.
I've mostly tried to avoid single-use tutors.
* I'm not sure Yawgmoth, Thran Physician has enough support. I might be missing something. Maybe he's strong enough on his own too.
Deck was already running Phyrexian Plaguelord seemed like an easy swap was generally really happy seeing Plaguelord over the years.
* I am not sure I would play Ostone in this deck. It's absolutely fine but it's not particularly strong. This feels like a deck where you can get by with just ench/artifact sweepers and then beat their planeswalkers to death, but I might be wrong.
I recently consolidated several lists down to one non-budget list I used to run nevinyrral's disk as well the slot was taken by toxic deluge. So far I haven't missed the disk, Ostone is a viable cut next time I find something I NEED.
* The lands matter package overall feels a little constrained in this deck. Like you'd maybe want to have a few more extra land drop effects or something - burgeoning, exploration type stuff, but there's not a lot of room for them. I don't know have any actual advice there just a comment.
The lack of extra land drops is tied to the lack of ramp. I'd rather draw cards that do things later in the game than just drawing air. oracle of mul daya is a holdover from an earlier time when drawing cards was at a premium and just hasn't found it's way out.
* This is actually a weird deck that I think might benefit from *more* non-sweeper removal for enchantments and artifacts especially. Maybe like Pir's whim or Broken Bond or something? Whim has been exceptional for me so far. The way this deck looks to play out it feels like your edict spam will keep creatures in check. I could see going down a sweeper or two and up on stuff like Acidic Slime or Thrashing Brontodon.
I've been waiting literal years for a 4cmc Reclamation Sage so I can Birthing pod from Sage to Slime hitting targets along the way.
Speaking of Brontodon, I think it is really a clutch card in this deck. triggers edicts, doesn't require a sac outlet to reuse with Volrath's + genesis, and has a more respectable body than rec sage. It has been reallllly good in my gitrog deck. I have made more than one person scoop to Volrath's+Brontodon. Build your own really crappy aura shards
I've gone back and forth a few times between Viridian Zealot & Caustic Caterpillar in the end the cheaper card won out so when brontodon was printed I didn't really consider it due to these results and the absolute glut of 3 drops.
Oh man, I used to run Savra, and honestly it was a ton of fun. Although the triggers can get a bit overwhelming from time to time. Still, so much fun. She definitely doesn't get enough love. If I wasn't playing Glissa, I'd be tempted to build Savra again.
I've sat and looked at Apprentice Necromancer for a long time and it just hasn't gotten there, I'll add it to my next TCGplayer order. Reassembling Skeleton doesn't do much on its own and is mana intensive to recur. generally, I think Bloodghast is better. Sakura-Tribe Elder There's nothing I'm in a particular hurry to ramp to and dislike drawing air later in the game so I've avoided ramp spells. If one made the cut Steve would probably be it. Doomed Necromancer falls victim to its converted mana cost. Smothering Abomination, Disciple of Bolas were both in earlier iterations of the deck and got cut for various reason. I occasionally miss Disciple but the forced sacrifice of Abomination bothered me. Strands of Night 6 mana and a land feels like a steep price to pay. my other forms of recursion and relatively low mana costs are generally going to be less mana to bring things back.
I've ended up being with multiple decks of the same (or similar ) color combinations. I across 5 decks I have zero overlap in non-land cards. My life is made slightly easier because I really dislike playing Ramp.
Hmmn how about goat tribal.
Out:
In:
Implementing a change log going forward to sort out historical changes mostly for my own benefit.
I found both Apprentice Necromancer & Priest of Forgotten Gods too slow for the amount of impact they had.
Mindslicer is a card I've continued to keep in the deck despite rarely tutoring for or casting when drawn it was mostly the final nail in the coffin when resolving Living Death triggers.
Elvish Reclaimer may have the same issues as two of the cuts but fits the reusable tutoring and lands matter packages nicely so I'll give it a try.
Blightbeetle & Collector Ouphe trying out some hatebear options. Beetle is a unique effect. Since I cut Oblivion Stone & Nevinyrral's Disk there is minimal impact to my gameplan from Collector Ouphe
And the associated mana rebalancing.
This list was partially inspired by the standard decks of my youth specifically masques/invasion Fires of Yavimaya aggro notably missing from the deck are mana dorks and stone rain effects as neither are particularly effective in EDH.
The abundance of card draw from having larger creatures gives some resiliency to boardwipes backed with a smattering of counter magic to protect the team.
1 Surrak Dragonclaw
Creatures:36
1 Coiling Oracle
1 Kraul Harpooner
1 Plaxmanta
1 Archetype of Aggression
1 Krosan Warchief
1 Manglehorn
1 Manic Vandal
1 Savage Knuckleblade
1 Thrashing Brontodon
1 Trygon Predator
1 Wirewood Savage
1 Brawn
1 Frilled Mystic
1 Mystic Snake
1 Ravenous Baloth
1 Shaman of the Great Hunt
1 Spellbreaker Behemoth
1 Sunder Shaman
1 Conclave Naturalists
1 Garruk's Packleader
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Ingot Chewer
1 Molder Slug
1 Nikya of the Old Ways
1 Woodripper
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Paleoloth
1 Rampaging Baloths
1 Ravager Wurm
1 Sagu Mauler
1 Savage Ventmaw
1 Shefet Monitor
1 Thunderfoot Baloth
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Spearbreaker Behemoth
1 Archetype of Endurance
1 Earthquake
1 Hurricane
1 Rampant Growth
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Circuitous Route
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Thunder of Hooves
Instants:6
1 Stubborn Denial
1 Arcane Denial
1 Disdainful Stroke
1 Magmaquake
1 Starstorm
1 Dissipate
Enchantments:10
1 Elemental Bond
1 Fires of Yavimaya
1 Kavu Lair
1 Rhythm of the Wild
1 Temur Ascendancy
1 Guardian Project
1 Sarkhan's Unsealing
1 AEther Charge
1 Saproling Burst
1 Where Ancients Tread
Planeswalkers:1
1 Kiora, Behemoth Beckoner
Lands:38
1 Contested Cliffs
1 Desolate Lighthouse
12 Forest
1 Frontier Bivouac
1 Gruul Guildgate
1 Gruul Turf
1 Highland Lake
4 Island
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Izzet Guildgate
6 Mountain
1 Rugged Highlands
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Simic Guildgate
1 Skarrg, the Rage Pits
1 Swiftwater Cliffs
1 Thornwood Falls
1 Timber Gorge
1 Woodland Stream
I look forward to chaining activations every turn and feeding the 20/20 token to Savra... not saying it's good but would be funny.
This deck is actually surprisingly resilient to graveyard hate its very much an exhibition in redundancy. The only real game ending combo is Jarad, Golgari lich lord+ Lord of Extinction (sometimes Golgari Grave-Troll cameos for LOE)
That said doubling back to the Karador discussion ahead of me Collector Ouphe could be a thing here as I only run 3 artifacts.
Its a fine card just finding the slot is rough. I prefer thing that impact the board.
I like bone shredder more due to the Echo playing well with the various gravepacts
My most recent project of late has been cutting lands that come into play tapped more than not the Cycling lands are cantrips that occasionally "morph" into mana sources.
No single card has failed to impress me over the last couple of years as much as Azusa, Lost but Seeking. I'm not sure how but even in a windgrace lands matter list with 45+ lands she did less than nothing.
This is a legitimate concern. The way I end up playing it more than not I attempt to live in 2nd place and fly under the radar until I resolve Living death or Rise of the Dark Realms and create an avalanche of card advantage or simply combo out with Jarad
The Deck is pretty color intensive as it stands BBB is a bit rough even running Urborg
Kokusho, the Evening Star has been in a small pile of cards that has never quite made the cut partially because when the list was initially created it was banned. Gray Merchant of Asphodel Lived in a zombie tribal list I had for a while. When it went away I didn't really think to port it over here, I'll give it a try.
I like it significantly better than Izoni, Thousand-Eyed I found spending the time & mana to bring back Izoni and then cast her wasn't worth it. Going big with Gaea's Cradle & Cabal Coffers and Life From the Loam it has been solid.
Occasionally I feel the lack of outlets but the deck can generally play a straight one for one control grind to buy time until I find them.
Green Sun's Zenith fits the reusable tutor thing I've got going on not being able to hit black creatures is a bit concerning as mostly I'm tutoring for answers. Varolz, the Scar-Striped lives in the same pile of near misses with Kokusho, the Evening Star he also has a significant drawback of costing 3 mana which I have a surplus of creatures at that CMC.
I've mostly tried to avoid single-use tutors.
Deck was already running Phyrexian Plaguelord seemed like an easy swap was generally really happy seeing Plaguelord over the years.
I recently consolidated several lists down to one non-budget list I used to run nevinyrral's disk as well the slot was taken by toxic deluge. So far I haven't missed the disk, Ostone is a viable cut next time I find something I NEED.
The lack of extra land drops is tied to the lack of ramp. I'd rather draw cards that do things later in the game than just drawing air. oracle of mul daya is a holdover from an earlier time when drawing cards was at a premium and just hasn't found it's way out.
I've been waiting literal years for a 4cmc Reclamation Sage so I can Birthing pod from Sage to Slime hitting targets along the way.
I've gone back and forth a few times between Viridian Zealot & Caustic Caterpillar in the end the cheaper card won out so when brontodon was printed I didn't really consider it due to these results and the absolute glut of 3 drops.
I've sat and looked at Apprentice Necromancer for a long time and it just hasn't gotten there, I'll add it to my next TCGplayer order. Reassembling Skeleton doesn't do much on its own and is mana intensive to recur. generally, I think Bloodghast is better. Sakura-Tribe Elder There's nothing I'm in a particular hurry to ramp to and dislike drawing air later in the game so I've avoided ramp spells. If one made the cut Steve would probably be it. Doomed Necromancer falls victim to its converted mana cost. Smothering Abomination, Disciple of Bolas were both in earlier iterations of the deck and got cut for various reason. I occasionally miss Disciple but the forced sacrifice of Abomination bothered me. Strands of Night 6 mana and a land feels like a steep price to pay. my other forms of recursion and relatively low mana costs are generally going to be less mana to bring things back.
Thank you all for your replies!
You prefer 1 card per turn to 1 card per creature? Pretty sure more is better when it comes to card draw.
I would not suggest Nath as your first commander. The amount of attention he draws isnt equal to the benefits of playing him