So far my worst matchup has been RDW. What are peoples card choices against that deck?
I took out my ratchet bombs and seagate oracles and put in the trinket mage brittle effigy/ elixir of immortality suite.
Beyond that I just have 3 flashfreezes in SB.
Trinket U/B should also have 3-4 Disfigure in the SB for the RDW match-up. If your meta is heavy with RDW a few Inquisition of Kozilek in the maindeck couldn't hurt too much either.
With SoJI... Your finisher doesn't turn the game around: it just wins the game, nothing else. At the point that SoJI wins the game you've pretty much already won, you just need a vehicle to change your massive CA into a win, and SoJI does that.
Well said.
Every time I resolved a Sphinx I've won the game. There are only 3 cards in standard that can remove it from the board: AiD, DoJ, and Destructive Force. All of which should be flat out countered or Duressed from hand and there is no way they are going fish out enough counters to get one to stick as they could with cheap targeted removal.
Sphinx sucked before because U/W ran Martial Coup and Day of Judgment en mass to handle the crazy amount of creatures aggro was pumping out. Now that it settled down a bit, slow 6/6's are rampant, and massive amounts of CA are available to blue SoJI is a solid choice.
Like stated above, I wouldn't run it in a deck that couldn't control the board well enough, I'd run a mix of Grave and Frost Titans to handle board position.
Congrats on the win i-never-smile! Nice to see U/b break into the mainstream, but that does mean I have to go back pretending I have JtMS whenever I need to post my list :/
Awesome call on using Mindbreak Trap. It does everything I need to handle all the impossible to counter/destroy cards that have been giving my build such a headache. I wish I would have thought of it.
I'm entering FNM with this deck Friday and I want it to be as prepared to handle anything that is thrown at me. So with that in mind, can I get some constructive criticism?
so, this is the decklist I'm playing with right now:
I really want some opinions on my list. I'm thinking about replacing my Sphinx's with Baneslayer Angel's, though I really like the Sphinx. I'm thinking about doing 1 and 1. I know that Baneslayer Angel is better, but being immune to spells gives the Sphinx a big advantage and can still swing for the same, but I want some opinions.
I was also debating between 2 Sun Titan and 1 Frost or vice-versa. I like Sun because he gives me all my things back, such as Wall of Omens. Which allow me to defend Venser as he +2's his way to his Emblem. Anyone have an opinion?
Also the Stoic Rebuttle or Negate argument. Anyone else find themselves wanting to have Cancel's rather than Negates in their hand against decks like Poison and Artifacts?
Jace's Ingenuity and Venser's Journal are on the outs. I really, really like Venser's Journal because of the life gain and it allows me to stockpile spells, and Ingenuity works well, obviously. But if there are more effective cards, I'd love to hear opinions.
And the sideboard... I'm kinda new to U/W, so I'd love any ideas.
That's a nice deck and all... but this the U/B (BU) thread and I don't think you're going to find the help you're looking for
I proxied this list and have been trying it out against goldfish and some other proxy decks today, and it's been working fairly well. I'm not sure how much this deviates from the norm on this thread, but I like it.
If the Rats are the only poison engine then you're really relying on proliferate to go to 10, you're better dropping them and sticking with the -1/-1 counters. Hatchling would be better as Calcite Snapper or Sea Gate Oracle since they are more than just a wall. Also you can stand to drop a couple of lands in favor of Voltaic Key to abuse your artifacts.
Also, why the fetchlands? Is it just for thining? Aren't you worried about the fetch-hate bears?
Fetchlands are only in to shuffle away a bad looking Halimar Depths.
I like adding PQ, but if they have tectonic edge to take care of the Tar Pits, they could just sit back and not do anything until they are ready to play whatever their monster win condition, have seven cards in hand (to discard to PQ instead of life).
While they sit back and fill their hand with the cards they need to win, I can have another PQ on the board and a grip full of counters and removal.
PQ is going to need a ton of testing. If it doesn't pan out then back to a mix of Grave/Frost Titan, SoJI, and/or Wurmcoil. I think it will fit perfect though, makes their removal only vaild for discard and with all the removal packed in the deck they can't just lie back and count on whats on the board. Also PQ is 5 CMC which is one cheaper than any of the other creature based wincons. Adequate pressure can also be applied through Carpits.
Not sure if Darkslick Shores have a place in the deck... I'd rather my mana enter untapped late than early. Also, Consume the Meek maybe less vaild depending on the metashift and I'd love to find a spot for Ratchet Bomb anyhow...
And to those that think Jace's Ingenuity is the bee's knees we have had an instant speed draw three in standard for a long time and it didn't make a huge splash. (Mysteries of the Deep) It's the fact that Jace's Ingenuity was printed alongside Mana Leak that made permission and instant speed draw so good.
I disagree. If that was the case, people would be running Mysteries over Ingenuity for it's less intensive CC (especially in a 3 color deck). Mysteries was mostly just a draw 2 (3 only if you had a fetch) on your opponents turn or a Mind Spring for 3 on your turn. Ingenuity blows it out of the water (pun totally intended) for always drawing 3 on your opponents turn.
I'm surprised not more of you are using Sea Gate Oracle, I know his body isn't as solid as the snapper, but he's our Wall of Omens as I look at it.
Testing so far as me feeling good. My only concern is the removal may not be efficient enough, but that worry might just come from my reliance on Terminate in my former Grixis deck.
Also, 24 lands just might be one or two too many... I've been hitting 4BB/U on turn 6 consistently with land in hand still, so maybe dropping a land or two in favor of a cheap spell.
@TappedOutAgain
If you are going to run my build, just as a heads up, the Crystal ball didn't work out too well for me, so I cut it for a 2nd Jace's ingenuity and a 4th blightning....
Chapin's list looks like a pile thrown together to write a quick article... I really think skip's updated list is the way to go. It's what I'll be testing this week!
Obviously Grixis Control as you guys know it with CRUEL is only going to be viable till OCT. So still a few more months of domination at hand before it gets there.
As for the Nicol Bolas control variation that I have been running the last 5 weeks and having GREAT SUCCESS with... I still think it'll be very very good...
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you lose Bolas in Oct too. And unless SoM pulls out something amazing in the Grixis colors, the deck is going to be non-existent. We simply loose too much:
Cruel Ultimatum / Bolas (the main reasons to run the UBR)
Blightning
Sedraxis Specter
Terminate
Crumbling Necropolis
Siege-Gang Commander
Pretty much all we gain from M11 is Mana Leak and possibly Grave Titan...
^ya... more like 4 cards to achieve one goal. You'll need the Cruel to cast and two prisms to filter the 1's from the spawns.
Hatcher is decent, it actually helps your board a bit, but it will only help you ramp into Bolas. Prism... eh. I don't think we really need it for anything. So long as you build your mana base correctly, you'll have no issue casting cruel.
I'd rather have the 8 slots go to something more worthwhile like: burn, removal, discard, a creature that does something... etc... etc...
Edit: not to mention, at 5cc you'll be dropping Hatcher turn 5. Untap, drop land, filter token mana cast Cruel T6.... Not really all that good for all that work and card slots.
Trinket U/B should also have 3-4 Disfigure in the SB for the RDW match-up. If your meta is heavy with RDW a few Inquisition of Kozilek in the maindeck couldn't hurt too much either.
Well said.
Every time I resolved a Sphinx I've won the game. There are only 3 cards in standard that can remove it from the board: AiD, DoJ, and Destructive Force. All of which should be flat out countered or Duressed from hand and there is no way they are going fish out enough counters to get one to stick as they could with cheap targeted removal.
Sphinx sucked before because U/W ran Martial Coup and Day of Judgment en mass to handle the crazy amount of creatures aggro was pumping out. Now that it settled down a bit, slow 6/6's are rampant, and massive amounts of CA are available to blue SoJI is a solid choice.
Like stated above, I wouldn't run it in a deck that couldn't control the board well enough, I'd run a mix of Grave and Frost Titans to handle board position.
Awesome call on using Mindbreak Trap. It does everything I need to handle all the impossible to counter/destroy cards that have been giving my build such a headache. I wish I would have thought of it.
Congrats again and thanks for the sig
That's a nice deck and all... but this the U/B (BU) thread and I don't think you're going to find the help you're looking for
If the Rats are the only poison engine then you're really relying on proliferate to go to 10, you're better dropping them and sticking with the -1/-1 counters. Hatchling would be better as Calcite Snapper or Sea Gate Oracle since they are more than just a wall. Also you can stand to drop a couple of lands in favor of Voltaic Key to abuse your artifacts.
Fetchlands are only in to shuffle away a bad looking Halimar Depths.
While they sit back and fill their hand with the cards they need to win, I can have another PQ on the board and a grip full of counters and removal.
4x Grasp of Darkness
3x Doom Blade
3x Disfigure
2x Consume the Meek
1x Brittle Effigy
Control: (10)
4x Duress
3x Mana Leak
3x Deprive
2x Cancel
2x Into the Roil
3x Jace Beleren
2x Jace's Ingenuity
Win: (4)
4x Painful Quandary
Lands: (24)
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Drowned Catacomb
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Marsh Flats
2x Halimar Depths
1x Bojuka Bog
5x Island
5x Swamp
PQ is going to need a ton of testing. If it doesn't pan out then back to a mix of Grave/Frost Titan, SoJI, and/or Wurmcoil. I think it will fit perfect though, makes their removal only vaild for discard and with all the removal packed in the deck they can't just lie back and count on whats on the board. Also PQ is 5 CMC which is one cheaper than any of the other creature based wincons. Adequate pressure can also be applied through Carpits.
Not sure if Darkslick Shores have a place in the deck... I'd rather my mana enter untapped late than early. Also, Consume the Meek maybe less vaild depending on the metashift and I'd love to find a spot for Ratchet Bomb anyhow...
I disagree. If that was the case, people would be running Mysteries over Ingenuity for it's less intensive CC (especially in a 3 color deck). Mysteries was mostly just a draw 2 (3 only if you had a fetch) on your opponents turn or a Mind Spring for 3 on your turn. Ingenuity blows it out of the water (pun totally intended) for always drawing 3 on your opponents turn.
4x Calcite Snapper
3x Sea Gate Oracle
2x Sphinx of Jwar Isle
2x Grave Titan
Counter Magic (9)
4x Mana Leak
3x Cancel
2x Deprive
4x Doom Blade
3x Agony Warp
2x Consume the Meek
Draw (5)
3x Courier's Capsule
2x Jace's Ingenuity
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana Vess
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Creeping Tar Pit
4x Halimar Depths
1x Bojuka Bog
6x Island
5x Swamp
I'm surprised not more of you are using Sea Gate Oracle, I know his body isn't as solid as the snapper, but he's our Wall of Omens as I look at it.
Testing so far as me feeling good. My only concern is the removal may not be efficient enough, but that worry might just come from my reliance on Terminate in my former Grixis deck.
Also, 24 lands just might be one or two too many... I've been hitting 4BB/U on turn 6 consistently with land in hand still, so maybe dropping a land or two in favor of a cheap spell.
That's why I said your updated list I'm running close to the exact same except -1 Earthquake +1 Liliana Vess and a little different mana base.
I like it, it's real solid and plays the way I like. +100 for putting this deck up.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you lose Bolas in Oct too. And unless SoM pulls out something amazing in the Grixis colors, the deck is going to be non-existent. We simply loose too much:
Cruel Ultimatum / Bolas (the main reasons to run the UBR)
Blightning
Sedraxis Specter
Terminate
Crumbling Necropolis
Siege-Gang Commander
Pretty much all we gain from M11 is Mana Leak and possibly Grave Titan...
^ya... more like 4 cards to achieve one goal. You'll need the Cruel to cast and two prisms to filter the 1's from the spawns.
Hatcher is decent, it actually helps your board a bit, but it will only help you ramp into Bolas. Prism... eh. I don't think we really need it for anything. So long as you build your mana base correctly, you'll have no issue casting cruel.
I'd rather have the 8 slots go to something more worthwhile like: burn, removal, discard, a creature that does something... etc... etc...
Edit: not to mention, at 5cc you'll be dropping Hatcher turn 5. Untap, drop land, filter token mana cast Cruel T6.... Not really all that good for all that work and card slots.