This card is so legit. I played it in a Moat-Walker control shell with an artifact theme and it was stupid strong. If I'm not countering something, I'm making robots to protect walkers or upgrading robots to kill people. When you have enough mana, the robots don't die and just get upgraded after blocks are declared. There was Academy synergy, Karn synergy, Tezz Synergy, Angel of Invention Synergy, Moat Synergy. Against opposing control decks, you can actually make threats as the turns are typically passed back and forth with counter magic up. The deck was absurd and I didn't drop a single game.
Here are the changes I would make if I were to play it in the future again:
-1 Plains +Island
-1 Looter +1 Wall of Omens
Vraska's Contempt
I and most people dismissed the card during spoiler season for being 4 mana instead of 3, and all the competition that comes at the four mana slot in cube.
However, after losing back to back against blightsteel colosus in my black deck and seeing vraska's contempt in standard, I decided to give it a whirl.
It pleasently surprised me and confirmed my theory.
I now think its slightly better than Never//Return and Ruinous path overall.
The main reasons are, exile >> destroy. With reanimator being a commonly deck, indestructible creatures, recursive creatures etc. Black doesn't have many good answers to resilient creatures and cube has a lot of them. They typically have to x for 1 themselves, or hope that they land an edict on an empty board. There's a fair number of generic kill spells, but that doesn't deal well with a woodfall primus for example. I want my versatile expensive kill spells to be as versatile as possible
Instant > Sorcery, it may not always be obvious, but there are many times where instant speed is relevant for agressive decks. And for UB control decks it's 1000000x better.
Gain 2 life is nice and non-neglible, especially in black which has so much incidental life loss.
I currently am running Vraska's contempt, and am not running never//return.
Wretched Confluence
A card I just cut in my most recent batch of updates, but one that is very solid. I've been playing it since the confluence cycle got spoiled and have seen it done great work. It didn't see much play outside of UB control, but was still an ok 22nd playable outside of that deck. IN that deck it's insane. Especially with torrential gearhulk
UB control doesn't come up quite often enough for me to feel the need to keep it as I'm performing some weird tests at the moment. It could easily come back. At 540 it would have a permanant home
Ashiok, Nightmare weaver
This card potentially should go in my first section on a power level basis, but I personally loathe the gameplay it presents, and don't like it's synergies. I don't like the card, but I cannot deny it's power level. It's clear top 4 in dimir (most of my playgroup believes #2), but meh, I hate it
I recommend testing it if you haven't given it it's proper due and don't care about milling.
Jace , Memory adept
I dislike this card even more than ashiok for gameplay reasons, but again, I can't deny it's power. Unlike ashiok I havent tested jace much, but I have played it in other cubes, and the mill effect is super super good. It may be less good in cubes that support agro thoroughly though. MTG salvation forums cubes tend to support agro better than most cubes I've seen IRL. I'm not recommending this card, only mentioning it for completion.
I came to the same conclusions regarding Vraska's Contempt and Never // Return and I believe Contempt was dismissed way too early. I posted my reasons in the Public Xmage Cube Discord, and I'd like to share them here with the people here well. Also, I like all those other cards you mentioned--probably more than a lot of the members on here. lol
@LucidVision: I can see your argument for running Grim Monolith here, but I don't think it's really necessary as this deck unlocks nearly all of its spells at 4 mana, so the Talismans seem sufficient here. I wouldn't bat an eye if he decided to run with or without it though. Hoof, on the other hand, is a card that does not belong here. This deck doesn't seem like it can get to 8 mana reliably and his only other way to get it out would be to Rec Nightmare it, but he lacks the enablers to help him get it in the yard. FWIW, I would have loved if he ran Meren instead of Vraska because he wouldn't have been able to pop my Dack instantly. Meren at T3 would've been a lot easier to deal with than Vraska.
@Noh: FI, Teferi, and whatever you feel needs the most support IMO.
@Scourge: Is there any particular reason why you want to play Vorapede? Regal Behemoth goes better with Stampede. Fatty Cheats and Big Mana strategies can often be played in the same deck.
I forgot to mention Channel and Tinker as well. My only other consideration would be to cut lightning strike instead of the TTB because I’m running all 3 copies at 450 and there have been multiple burn spells wheeling in my last few drafts. It’s indicative of too many burn spells.
@Rantipole: I’m not sure why you aren’t running Oath of Druids. I’ve never considered cutting that card because it’s powerful and one hell of a skill tester. It requires you to warp your draft around it, but if you provide the correct targets in cube, the pay off is as high as you make it. It should come before Stampede IMO.
I'm running as many fatty cheat support cards as a 540+ cube would, but I'm at 450. The density of fatty cheat cards seems a tad too high. I have Through the Breach, Sneak Attack, Show and Tell, Selvala's Stampede, Oath of Druids, Eureka, and Shelldock Isle (Testing). They seems excessive at 450.
I may need to cut a fatty cheat cards at my size. Which one should I cut? Through the Breach or Selvala's Stampede? I was leaning on cutting TTB because Stampede can usually sneak out two permanents so it's greater value. Stampede can also bring out a walker and can oath out a creature if your hand is weak. It's also the better top deck.
This is intended an article, a collection of my cube experiences with less popular cards, but I encourage people to share their own afterwards.
Is there any cards in your list that you think may have been missed by forum members that worked out great for you? Is there a card that you tested a year ago, loved, championed, but have now cut?
Cards that were slept on , but I feel people are coming around to
Craterhoof behemoth
Gaea's cradle
Massacre wurm
Karakas
Collective brutality
Palace Jailer
- Craterhoof Behemoth: This is one my favorite cards to get with NO and a card that green really needed to make it more interesting.
- Gaea's Cradle: This card goes so well with Hoof and has application in other big mana decks.
- Massacre Wurm: I haven't been very fond of this card. I think I remember killing someone with it once? What makes this so good? I understand that it's great against the go-wide strategies, but is there something else I'm missing? It looks fine in control shells, but entirely ancillary. I suspect this card is less important now that we have Night Incarnate. I think Steve tried this for a while in his cube and wasn't a huge fan and I've only played it that environment. I think he replaced it for the black gearhulk which hasn't been bad. I'll continue to test it though.
- Karakas: This card isn't a high pick, but the potential to shut down Emmy or Griselbrand and other random creatures like Baby Jace or Brimaz makes this card strong. It's also pretty nasty with Clique or Venser. This card ages like a fine wine due to the increasing power creep found among legendary creatures.
- Collective Brutality: One of the stronger cards to play in reanimator shells. It sets up the fatty in the yard, checks if the coast is clear, clears your opponent's answers, and it can even double as life gain to make the reanimate less painful or an early game removal to eliminate a pesky Rofellos or Bob. It's also incredibly strong against aggro decks. Against red aggro, you can kill a 1 or 2 drop, remove a burn spell, and heal yourself thereby reducing the efficiency of other burn spells. It gives your deck better game against control and aggro decks. I've had it whiff on me, but I'm not usually concerned when that happens because it's safe to reanimate.
- Palace Jailer: This card is downright insane. In the correct shell, this card will just create insurmountable card advantage that will make it nearly impossible for the opponent to ever take back monarch. You can even block and trade creatures with him to prevent your opponent from getting monarch and still keep your opponent's threat exiled. The beauty of this card is how strong it is in more than just aggro shells. If a midrange player lands this card against a control player, the control player is going to experience great difficulty taking monarch. Conversely, I've also seen control players land this to help generate the card advantage they need to keep opponents locked from doing anything relevant. Then there's all these other bonuses like recruiter, blink, and Reveillark synergy. Jailer is a top 5 white card in my book.
Can I get some opinions on this card in 2018? The vocal majority of cube owners I play with feel like this card has lost a lot of its luster. In fact, quite a few of them have cut this card or are in the process of doing so. Personally, I rarely pick this card and I can't even recall the last time I played it. I've always dreamed of dropping a turn one Lily or Entomb-Exhume combo, but perhaps I need to be more realistic here. FWIW, the environments we play in have neither power nor storm. I suspect not supporting storm may have something to do with it.
1. If you're looking to support colorless, go with Thought Vessel. However, there are a ton of other mana rocks I'd play before those.
2. If you must decide, TKS is the superior card here. The disruption and pressure presented is key to winning a lot of match ups, especially if your cube is higher powered and combos are more prevalent. TKS can just remove the Wrath or combo piece that would've made Smasher irrelevant. That said, I can't imagine running one but not the other if you're supporting colorless. They're practically the reasons to support colorless cards.
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I'm considering cutting one of the following: Timetwister or Time Spiral. Which one should get the axe?
Here are the changes I would make if I were to play it in the future again:
-1 Plains +Island
-1 Looter +1 Wall of Omens
I came to the same conclusions regarding Vraska's Contempt and Never // Return and I believe Contempt was dismissed way too early. I posted my reasons in the Public Xmage Cube Discord, and I'd like to share them here with the people here well. Also, I like all those other cards you mentioned--probably more than a lot of the members on here. lol
@Scourge: Is there any particular reason why you want to play Vorapede? Regal Behemoth goes better with Stampede. Fatty Cheats and Big Mana strategies can often be played in the same deck.
@Rantipole: I’m not sure why you aren’t running Oath of Druids. I’ve never considered cutting that card because it’s powerful and one hell of a skill tester. It requires you to warp your draft around it, but if you provide the correct targets in cube, the pay off is as high as you make it. It should come before Stampede IMO.
- Craterhoof Behemoth: This is one my favorite cards to get with NO and a card that green really needed to make it more interesting.
- Gaea's Cradle: This card goes so well with Hoof and has application in other big mana decks.
- Massacre Wurm: I haven't been very fond of this card. I think I remember killing someone with it once? What makes this so good? I understand that it's great against the go-wide strategies, but is there something else I'm missing? It looks fine in control shells, but entirely ancillary. I suspect this card is less important now that we have Night Incarnate. I think Steve tried this for a while in his cube and wasn't a huge fan and I've only played it that environment. I think he replaced it for the black gearhulk which hasn't been bad. I'll continue to test it though.
- Karakas: This card isn't a high pick, but the potential to shut down Emmy or Griselbrand and other random creatures like Baby Jace or Brimaz makes this card strong. It's also pretty nasty with Clique or Venser. This card ages like a fine wine due to the increasing power creep found among legendary creatures.
- Collective Brutality: One of the stronger cards to play in reanimator shells. It sets up the fatty in the yard, checks if the coast is clear, clears your opponent's answers, and it can even double as life gain to make the reanimate less painful or an early game removal to eliminate a pesky Rofellos or Bob. It's also incredibly strong against aggro decks. Against red aggro, you can kill a 1 or 2 drop, remove a burn spell, and heal yourself thereby reducing the efficiency of other burn spells. It gives your deck better game against control and aggro decks. I've had it whiff on me, but I'm not usually concerned when that happens because it's safe to reanimate.
- Palace Jailer: This card is downright insane. In the correct shell, this card will just create insurmountable card advantage that will make it nearly impossible for the opponent to ever take back monarch. You can even block and trade creatures with him to prevent your opponent from getting monarch and still keep your opponent's threat exiled. The beauty of this card is how strong it is in more than just aggro shells. If a midrange player lands this card against a control player, the control player is going to experience great difficulty taking monarch. Conversely, I've also seen control players land this to help generate the card advantage they need to keep opponents locked from doing anything relevant. Then there's all these other bonuses like recruiter, blink, and Reveillark synergy. Jailer is a top 5 white card in my book.
1. If you're looking to support colorless, go with Thought Vessel. However, there are a ton of other mana rocks I'd play before those.
2. If you must decide, TKS is the superior card here. The disruption and pressure presented is key to winning a lot of match ups, especially if your cube is higher powered and combos are more prevalent. TKS can just remove the Wrath or combo piece that would've made Smasher irrelevant. That said, I can't imagine running one but not the other if you're supporting colorless. They're practically the reasons to support colorless cards.
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I'm considering cutting one of the following: Timetwister or Time Spiral. Which one should get the axe?