So Tek disappears from the thread for 4 days, then comes back after discussion veeres elsewhere and and says something totally unrelated to the suspicion on him, trying to pretend it never happened.
...Given Roy's presence in the opening posts of the game, I'm not liking the probability that he's actually a player's role, since if he is, there is zero chance of him being scum. There's also the fact that, if Haley can't read a spell scroll, why would Roy be able to? This points to one of Zebi or Tilde as scum, with Zebi being by far the likelier of the two: if Zebi is town and Tilde is scum, then Tilde just made up the whole "can't read the magic scroll" thing for no reason, plus, he would have passed an extra kill to a townie for no reason.
@SO: the wincon in question is the point where Tek *thinks* he loses if RR dies, but isn't sure.
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
Ced's ability can put the required number of votes above the actual number of players in the game (minus the lynchee's vote, of course), if we do badly enough, so it actually can make someone unlynchable. Also, ced is for all intents and purposes confirmed town, if he wasn't before. Zindabad should be able to confirm this, if he has any skill at all at reading between the lines.
I'm liking rian as a lynch, for trying to kill ced.
Vote rianalnn.
Lastly, Johm, tell us what you did with Skander's scroll. Was it stolen or did you give it away, or do you still have it?
I already gave a few arguments. He jumps on a bandwagon without any arguments, just says: We should vote Teknolink! Yes! Vote him!, and there is a significant difference between the way he acted day 1 vs day 2.
Uh huh. And you can't think of any pro-town reason why I would act like this, I'm sure.
Wait, maybe...you're scum, and my behavior is as pro-town as it gets!
Now having said that, I am going to undertake an experiment. I will now be working from the mafia point of view. With everything but my night actions, I will actively try and generate mislynches, find town power roles to kill, and otherwise act as a scum would act. I am not trying to act scummy--rather I'm trying to not look scummy--I'm acting like I'm trying to win as scum.
I've never been scum with Cyan before. That'd be interesting. But I'm holding up Johm as the best person to hammer, and the most likely town player.
That's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.
In any case, Tilde, your list of problems are not problems with my plan, but with the game in general, with the exception of the last one. Yes, a scum watcher would be a serious downside to my plan, but if that's the best objection you can come up with, when we don't even have a reason to think there might be a scum watcher in the first place, then your opposition is pretty weak.
I'd like a better read first. Your last few posts read null to me, and you answered the concerns, and started doing what you were accused of not doing.
What, praytell, did I start doing that I was accused of not doing, and in what world is that a point in in my favor, regardless?
It reads like fearmongering, trying to get the town to be indecisive as to who should hammer, as opposed to actually scum hunting. Let's face it, we don't know who's going to pull the trigger day 1, and trying to set that up and enforce it is just making the game stall.
Establishing someone as the designated "hammer-er" will make it harder for the scum to disguise at least half of their attempts to control who has items. Even in the worst case, where we accidentally name a scum, it reduces the scum's control because it will mean that any items they get by hammering will all be owned by the same person, and thus the scum's ability to use those items together will be limited (per rule 3 of the rules supplement in post 2). In the case where we appoint a townie, it forces the scum to either give up half their access to items, or else out themselves to hammer contrary to the town's will.
Not only that, but it gives focus to the town's night action users without outing power roles. The designated hammer-er will be a prime target for nightkilling, which increases the chances that the scum won't be able to afford to hunt the cop/doc/whoever else while leaving a role alive they know for sure has access to potentially game-breaking items. He's also a target for both investigations and for doc protections, among other things, which means that the more focus he attracts to himself, the more likely he is to be confirmed with night actions as either a good lynch target himself, or confirmed town. All without exposing power roles unnecessarily.
There's always a downside to setting up a situation where a cop wants to target the same person the scum want to kill, because it forces the cop into a WIFOM situation, but the fact that we're creating a situation where the scum have to choose between killing players for cop/doc-hunting reasons and killing people who might be completely harmless minus potentially game-breaking items they may have, easily makes up for it.
In short, we have a chance to put control of a highly volatile aspect of the game in the hands of someone we can hold accountable for it, rather than let it bounce into the hands of whoever happens to feel like hammering at the right moment. It isn't a chance we should squander.
Now, on to your accusation: I am not fearmongering, because the word implies that I'm trying to get people to make a hasty and irreversible decision. I am instead trying to promote discussion on a topic that is in no way anti-town (specifically, who people think is the most likely town player). As for promoting indecision and trying to stall the game, I guess your argument is that anything but making cases and voting is not moving the game forward? If so, I disagree. If not, you'll have to explain.
There are a distressing number of people who are just extracting their opinions from other people. We've had a bunch of these "write a short blurb on every player" posts and almost all of them are plagiarized from Tilde.
Don't be sheeps![/Puzzle]
Anyway, with 5 people putting me on the top of their scumdar, I'll ask if people want me to claim or not. Ahem:
I'm suspicious of Carrion Pigeons. He's basically meh'd a lot of the pushes so far this game, and hasn't really offered alternatives.
No disagreement. I think the pushes have so far been on people for no reasons other than stock scumtells and habit. When a case comes up that actually has a real chance of going to a lynch, I promise not to "meh" at it.
carrion pigeons – Scummy. In post 104, he’s wanting to just abandon the current argument without making any comment on it. Smacks of a deflection attempt.
Deflection from what? From a boring exchange of "You!" "No, you!" "No, you!" for two pages? I'll deflect from that all day.
I'm thinking CP is pretty detached from scum-hunting overall and prefers to discuss technical details. Doesn't seem like a town's mindset at all.
Any particular evidence of this? About the only things I can think of that I've done so far this game have been to express suspicion of you, defend Tilde, and try to get the town's focus on not being led by the nose by the scum to a situation where the scum have (or have access to) every item in the game. Any technical details I've discussed aren't coming to mind.
You play a very good townie, and deserve congratulations for that. I'm just astounded at how well you do at acting townie in this game, compared to...let's say, any other game I've played with you. Is this a mark of improved playskill, or just a sign that you're easy to read?
I don't get how you can say the bolded part + still think a name claim is worth anything. + if arim has a history of providing scum with false claims, then this kind of thinkingis a dead end.
A good name claim is a good name claim. I didn't say it remotely likely that Haley is a mod-provided false-claim. Merely that it's possible. Of course we shouldn't go clearing people based on name claims, but Haley as a claim is a definite point in Tilde's favor until we have evidence otherwise. Which we don't.
As CP pointed out, Haley is pretty much the perfect claim. She is probably town, but she always a chance she could be scum.
Now this means Tilde either:
a) didn't lie, is Haley and probably town looking like scum;
b) lied, is not Haley and should be lynched today.
I personally think the name claim without anything else isn't good enough to change my mind, so I'm keeping my vote where it is for now.
This is foolish. Firstly because Haley could be scum, and you've presented a serious false dichotomy. Secondly because regardless of what could be, acting on unlikely and unsupported possibilities out of fear is nothing but pure bad play. Haley as a claim is very likely to be a town role; the possibility that she might not be is not a point against Tilde in any way, shape, or form.
You're sounding like you're threatening me from even looking in your direction. Huh. I wasn't aware being called out to voice an opinion in mafia was offensive to you.
This is a mini. A wagon is whenever there is anything even remotely serious on the parts of the voters that keep on stacking up.
I disagree with every sentence in this quote longer than 4 words. The shorter ones are fine.
I thought only scums are interested in knowing who the likeliest town members are, to like kill them off when no one is looking.
And I thought that finding out the likeliest scum members is at the forefront of every town's mind and here you are, proposing otherwise?
You're gaming the mod rather than discussing behaviors. And you used said mod-gaming to clear a claim. You must be very certain then.
If we do not make arrangements for someone specific to hammer, then the scum will have nearly absolute control over it. This is a major problem that we need to consider and adapt to, considering how items work in this game. If you think deciding who the most likely town members are is a poor way of going about it, (and why would you think that?) then what is a good way of doing so?
Not happening, bud.
Unvote, Vote Zebi.
@Cyan: can you confirm that Az replacing into the game is a mod action and not a result of some ability? It seems like it is, but explicit confirmation would be nice.
Ced's ability can put the required number of votes above the actual number of players in the game (minus the lynchee's vote, of course), if we do badly enough, so it actually can make someone unlynchable. Also, ced is for all intents and purposes confirmed town, if he wasn't before. Zindabad should be able to confirm this, if he has any skill at all at reading between the lines.
I'm liking rian as a lynch, for trying to kill ced.
Vote rianalnn.
Lastly, Johm, tell us what you did with Skander's scroll. Was it stolen or did you give it away, or do you still have it?
Uh huh. And you can't think of any pro-town reason why I would act like this, I'm sure.
Wait, maybe...you're scum, and my behavior is as pro-town as it gets!
More votes on Tek, please.
Okay.
Also, why is Tek not lynched yet?
'Nuff said.
Sigh. I'm having trouble deciding if this more likely ignorance or an effort to suck up.
That's normal.
That's not to say I couldn't be convinced otherwise.
In any case, Tilde, your list of problems are not problems with my plan, but with the game in general, with the exception of the last one. Yes, a scum watcher would be a serious downside to my plan, but if that's the best objection you can come up with, when we don't even have a reason to think there might be a scum watcher in the first place, then your opposition is pretty weak.
What, praytell, did I start doing that I was accused of not doing, and in what world is that a point in in my favor, regardless?
Establishing someone as the designated "hammer-er" will make it harder for the scum to disguise at least half of their attempts to control who has items. Even in the worst case, where we accidentally name a scum, it reduces the scum's control because it will mean that any items they get by hammering will all be owned by the same person, and thus the scum's ability to use those items together will be limited (per rule 3 of the rules supplement in post 2). In the case where we appoint a townie, it forces the scum to either give up half their access to items, or else out themselves to hammer contrary to the town's will.
Not only that, but it gives focus to the town's night action users without outing power roles. The designated hammer-er will be a prime target for nightkilling, which increases the chances that the scum won't be able to afford to hunt the cop/doc/whoever else while leaving a role alive they know for sure has access to potentially game-breaking items. He's also a target for both investigations and for doc protections, among other things, which means that the more focus he attracts to himself, the more likely he is to be confirmed with night actions as either a good lynch target himself, or confirmed town. All without exposing power roles unnecessarily.
There's always a downside to setting up a situation where a cop wants to target the same person the scum want to kill, because it forces the cop into a WIFOM situation, but the fact that we're creating a situation where the scum have to choose between killing players for cop/doc-hunting reasons and killing people who might be completely harmless minus potentially game-breaking items they may have, easily makes up for it.
In short, we have a chance to put control of a highly volatile aspect of the game in the hands of someone we can hold accountable for it, rather than let it bounce into the hands of whoever happens to feel like hammering at the right moment. It isn't a chance we should squander.
Now, on to your accusation: I am not fearmongering, because the word implies that I'm trying to get people to make a hasty and irreversible decision. I am instead trying to promote discussion on a topic that is in no way anti-town (specifically, who people think is the most likely town player). As for promoting indecision and trying to stall the game, I guess your argument is that anything but making cases and voting is not moving the game forward? If so, I disagree. If not, you'll have to explain.
Don't be sheeps![/Puzzle]
Anyway, with 5 people putting me on the top of their scumdar, I'll ask if people want me to claim or not. Ahem:
Do people want me to claim, or not?
No disagreement. I think the pushes have so far been on people for no reasons other than stock scumtells and habit. When a case comes up that actually has a real chance of going to a lynch, I promise not to "meh" at it.
Deflection from what? From a boring exchange of "You!" "No, you!" "No, you!" for two pages? I'll deflect from that all day.
Any particular evidence of this? About the only things I can think of that I've done so far this game have been to express suspicion of you, defend Tilde, and try to get the town's focus on not being led by the nose by the scum to a situation where the scum have (or have access to) every item in the game. Any technical details I've discussed aren't coming to mind.
You play a very good townie, and deserve congratulations for that. I'm just astounded at how well you do at acting townie in this game, compared to...let's say, any other game I've played with you. Is this a mark of improved playskill, or just a sign that you're easy to read?
And lastly, I'm going to blatantly barn the Skander case because I'm liking where it's going.[/lantern-hanging]
Unvote DYH, Vote Skander
A good name claim is a good name claim. I didn't say it remotely likely that Haley is a mod-provided false-claim. Merely that it's possible. Of course we shouldn't go clearing people based on name claims, but Haley as a claim is a definite point in Tilde's favor until we have evidence otherwise. Which we don't.
This is foolish. Firstly because Haley could be scum, and you've presented a serious false dichotomy. Secondly because regardless of what could be, acting on unlikely and unsupported possibilities out of fear is nothing but pure bad play. Haley as a claim is very likely to be a town role; the possibility that she might not be is not a point against Tilde in any way, shape, or form.
I disagree with every sentence in this quote longer than 4 words. The shorter ones are fine.
If we do not make arrangements for someone specific to hammer, then the scum will have nearly absolute control over it. This is a major problem that we need to consider and adapt to, considering how items work in this game. If you think deciding who the most likely town members are is a poor way of going about it, (and why would you think that?) then what is a good way of doing so?
[more coming as I finish the thread]