I sent a PM to Lesurgo about this. This really has to happen.
A definition of Budget is not a problem. The only workable definition of a budget deck is a deck that does noty have access to any suggested cards.
Because that is what Budget means. The rest of the competitive forums all are made assuming that you can play any card you wish. We need a forum for people who are limited by their cards.
Because otherwise a budget forum would not work. A budget for vintage is not, and by no means should be the same, as a standard players budget. Nor will 2 vintage players budgets be the same. One players budget will be "No power 9" while another players will be 30 dollars.
And this difference in budgets would not hinder a budget forum. Simply whoever began a topic would say their budgets.
Also what works with this definition of budget is that it encompases all budgets. There is vast differences in budgets. Truly no other definition of budget would work. And anyway, trying to label a number for budget is frankly, stupid.
Right now this is a serious problem in the forum, I keep trying to advocate for a budget section. There is no good place for people to disscuss decks on budget right now. And its a problem for competitive players without budgets aswell. It clogs up many threads for people trying to prepare for tournaments with incessant posts "Is there a replacement for ~~~~?" "Does the deck really need ~~~~~~?". All of these are completely off the topic that the rest of the topic. It does not make sense to have posts of the same topic in the same thread, does it? Finding a budget deck is not discussing the optimal deck, 2 very diferent things.
So if this forum wants to support discussions of budget Magic, a budget forum has to be made. The best way would be in "THe Game", there should be a forum "Budget forum" (or w/e its called in the end" with sub forums for each format.
I really hope this happens. It would really improve the forum. Well lets try and keep this topic alive for as long as we can, maybe they'll actually do something about it.
And if there is a reason why not to make a budget forum, could a mod/admin/w/e please just post here why? So far its just been ignored, and I'd love to continue to argue the case if there is a reason why not.
I simply suggest that each Variant format have their own Budget guide or section dedicated to helping players. However, it must have community support to maintain it or it will not work. A budget forum is too all encompassing because it will get WAY too confusing to merge say Vintage and Standard budget advice threads together in one forum and hope people can understand the difference.
Okay team! We now have a full roster and all positions filled! If not done so already, talk to your fellow writers about how to divide the work for the project!
EDIT: Description writers- I want to see what cards you want to start with and agreed upon format.
dantcg- talk with the other editor to see how you want to divide your job(s) between you.
lockheart87- The description writers will ultimately compile a complete guide to cards in standard (less daunting if we get Alara block done first, followed by M10 and then the next three sets of the new block). It's basically the longest of any position writer's timespan simply for the body of work that has to be done. Card to Own writers determine the cards to be deemed "necessary" for Type 2 competitive and brief reasons while we look at the card and say "Hey, you can also do this with the card as well" and give a bit more of an explanation. If a card to own is not on the list, then we take descriptions for those cards and improve on it.
Grave Indifference :xmana::symb::symb:
Sorcery
Remove target sorcery or instant card with converted mana cost X in your graveyard from the game. Grave Indifference becomes a copy of that card. When there is no future, why care about the past?
I don't know if this question was answered on previous thread, but do we need to review ALL 1600 cards on standard? There are some vanillas that just doesn't worth writing (or we'd be writing the same thing over and over)
I'd like to start making Lorwyn and Morningtide if possible.
Well, let me be specific about what everyone does...
Just gonna copy paste guide editor-
Guide Editor- This position is important because it recognizes a person willing to help all writers perfect their work and help the overall goal of crafting this guide. I highly suggest only those with editoral/English experience and team motivation/leadership skills apply.
So it bascially means you help others
Introduction Writers- they will write the information regarding what Standard is without going into too much detail about individual decks, ect. Their responsibility is to introduce players to the format, then talk about the sections of the guide they think are relevant for certain people (like Budget players see budget section). Hopefully we can expand this definition a bit better, but this is what I hope people want to see.
Top Tier Decks Writers- As you have seen, it talks about the deck archtypes out there in T2, so it lists the decks, and gives a brief breakdown why that deck is dominant.
Cards to Own Writers- This here is where cards featured extensively in T2 decks are talked about and a bit of rationale if warranted. All they really have to do is decide why a person should own this card and why (i.e.- is it a money rare, dominance in mana slot, deck types, ect).
Card Description Writers- this here is what you are interested in. Well, the meat of this area is to take Cards to Own and goes a bit deeper. It tries to justify a card as playable in Standard and what if any combos or deck themes it may be relevant to. So where as card to own people may say Bitterblossom- solid card advantage, amazing synergy in fae decks, wide versatility, ect...you make a brief paragraph instead to analyze the card.
EVENTUALLY the guide hopefully will encompass every card, but for the moment, should focus on only the cards Card to Own writers are working on.
Budget Writers- helps new players and budget players make competitive decks and help find ways to adjust to a meta rampant with 20-30 dollar cards.
EDIT- added and subtracted a few from the team based on requests and new applications.
Single-tron card selections either confuse an opponent into believing there is more of it or fits into a slot as a toolbox or usually takes the role of a gamebreaking rip you often don't ever want to see more of (would you rather rip 2 Loxodon warhammers or 1 hammer and a critter to wield the hammer?
As for Vagras's selection of Wydwyn and Peppersmoke one-ofs, it's actually not bad choices. Wydwyn is basically a Plumeveil that can save itself, and Peppersmoke will often also have the draw aspect tied to it, making it a cantrip that replaces itself.
Deathstorm Dragon :3mana::symr::symb:
Creature- Dragon (Mythic Rare)
Haste, Trample, Deathtouch
Storm
When Deathstorm Dragon comes into play, you lose two life.
3/3 Nothing survives the deathstorm.
Not entirely sure how budget budget is, so what do you guys think of the Elfball archetype as a deck for a player on a budget?
I'll edit this post into a guide (to Elfball or whatever is acceptable.) once I get the green light.
Budget is probably.... "I can't afford 4x Thoughtseize, but I can afford 4X Mind Games," or "I can make a deck like Faeries, but I can't afford the cards more than $10..."
For the budget guide, open it with what it means to be a new player or budget, and work from there on how to handle explaining to a new player what to do, what decks are out there...ect.
EDIT: Hi WaterBleu! What did you wanted to add to the guide?
Fel Star :symb::symb: (U)
Artifact
:symtap::Add to your mana pool.
Whenever you play a black spell, you may gain 1 life. Emitting no light, it nonetheless allows the damned to follow the true path of horror.
aquacadet92,Tbshawk, RPishNameGoesHere- start PMing each other about the budget guide or posting here. Hopefully we can help budget/new players as soon as possible!
King of Greed :symb::symb:
Creature- Human Lord (R)
Creatures you control get -1/-1 and have ":symb:,:symtap:, Pay 2 life: Draw a card."
3/3 The mad hoarding of wealth starts with one corrupted soul.
Ok what I need to know via PM are what decks I'm to cover and who I need to send my drafts to. Other than that I am excited to be a part of this community effort and hopefully we can continue to update the guides as sets rotate in and out.
Alright, start with reviewing the list of decks under the Competitive subforum of T2 and work with Kirdkitty about what decks you would want to split up with each other. Basically this thread and any PMs between other writers are designed to help build what you want to do (i.e. have a placeholder post in this thread so others can see your work).
It's up to you to decide how you want to make this section of the guide.
yakusoku- Thanks for taking an editor position! Basically all you gotta do is help the writers do whatever they need to do to make the sections they are working on better, so writers should send feedback to editor and other writers and work together on building a better guide!
physicsdude, Dark_Flame, Tbshawk- start PMing one another and looking over the T2 cards out there. Focus on compiling a list first and agreement on what cards should be added. It's also best to publically post the list so others can add/subtract their thoughts to it as well.
I simply suggest that each Variant format have their own Budget guide or section dedicated to helping players. However, it must have community support to maintain it or it will not work. A budget forum is too all encompassing because it will get WAY too confusing to merge say Vintage and Standard budget advice threads together in one forum and hope people can understand the difference.
Presenting the Universal Drawback!
Money Mountain
Land
:symtap:, give target opponent one U.S. dollar: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Ka-ching!
or this flavor text
Only Bill Gates could afford this mountain.
EDIT: Description writers- I want to see what cards you want to start with and agreed upon format.
dantcg- talk with the other editor to see how you want to divide your job(s) between you.
Sorcery
Remove target sorcery or instant card with converted mana cost X in your graveyard from the game. Grave Indifference becomes a copy of that card.
When there is no future, why care about the past?
Well, let me be specific about what everyone does...
Just gonna copy paste guide editor-
Guide Editor- This position is important because it recognizes a person willing to help all writers perfect their work and help the overall goal of crafting this guide. I highly suggest only those with editoral/English experience and team motivation/leadership skills apply.
So it bascially means you help others
Introduction Writers- they will write the information regarding what Standard is without going into too much detail about individual decks, ect. Their responsibility is to introduce players to the format, then talk about the sections of the guide they think are relevant for certain people (like Budget players see budget section). Hopefully we can expand this definition a bit better, but this is what I hope people want to see.
Top Tier Decks Writers- As you have seen, it talks about the deck archtypes out there in T2, so it lists the decks, and gives a brief breakdown why that deck is dominant.
Cards to Own Writers- This here is where cards featured extensively in T2 decks are talked about and a bit of rationale if warranted. All they really have to do is decide why a person should own this card and why (i.e.- is it a money rare, dominance in mana slot, deck types, ect).
Card Description Writers- this here is what you are interested in. Well, the meat of this area is to take Cards to Own and goes a bit deeper. It tries to justify a card as playable in Standard and what if any combos or deck themes it may be relevant to. So where as card to own people may say Bitterblossom- solid card advantage, amazing synergy in fae decks, wide versatility, ect...you make a brief paragraph instead to analyze the card.
EVENTUALLY the guide hopefully will encompass every card, but for the moment, should focus on only the cards Card to Own writers are working on.
Budget Writers- helps new players and budget players make competitive decks and help find ways to adjust to a meta rampant with 20-30 dollar cards.
EDIT- added and subtracted a few from the team based on requests and new applications.
Sorry, had two straight days of work that had to be done.
As for Vagras's selection of Wydwyn and Peppersmoke one-ofs, it's actually not bad choices. Wydwyn is basically a Plumeveil that can save itself, and Peppersmoke will often also have the draw aspect tied to it, making it a cantrip that replaces itself.
WaterBleu- contact one of the three top tier deck writers to give them suggestions!
EDIT- I am going to go ahead and insert myself as a card description writer since no one else wants it.
Creature- Dragon (Mythic Rare)
Haste, Trample, Deathtouch
Storm
When Deathstorm Dragon comes into play, you lose two life.
3/3
Nothing survives the deathstorm.
Budget is probably.... "I can't afford 4x Thoughtseize, but I can afford 4X Mind Games," or "I can make a deck like Faeries, but I can't afford the cards more than $10..."
For the budget guide, open it with what it means to be a new player or budget, and work from there on how to handle explaining to a new player what to do, what decks are out there...ect.
EDIT: Hi WaterBleu! What did you wanted to add to the guide?
XxTaLoNxX- Nice start!
Artifact
:symtap::Add
Whenever you play a black spell, you may gain 1 life.
Emitting no light, it nonetheless allows the damned to follow the true path of horror.
Request sent to IRebel.
aquacadet92,Tbshawk, RPishNameGoesHere- start PMing each other about the budget guide or posting here. Hopefully we can help budget/new players as soon as possible!
Creature- Human Lord (R)
Creatures you control get -1/-1 and have ":symb:,:symtap:, Pay 2 life: Draw a card."
3/3
The mad hoarding of wealth starts with one corrupted soul.
Alright, start with reviewing the list of decks under the Competitive subforum of T2 and work with Kirdkitty about what decks you would want to split up with each other. Basically this thread and any PMs between other writers are designed to help build what you want to do (i.e. have a placeholder post in this thread so others can see your work).
It's up to you to decide how you want to make this section of the guide.
yakusoku- Thanks for taking an editor position! Basically all you gotta do is help the writers do whatever they need to do to make the sections they are working on better, so writers should send feedback to editor and other writers and work together on building a better guide!
physicsdude, Dark_Flame, Tbshawk- start PMing one another and looking over the T2 cards out there. Focus on compiling a list first and agreement on what cards should be added. It's also best to publically post the list so others can add/subtract their thoughts to it as well.