So yesterday I played some games agains jund with my semi revised deck. Only thing I was missing were mainboard anger of the gods and gearhulks but other than that the deck seemed to have performaned somewhat nicely. IOK was nice although game 1 I didn't see it at all but games 2 and 3 it was prevelant and helped me pull nuisances and fill my gy along with serum visions and a shock land to drop tasigur. He was a real star holding the battlefield for me and using his ability to cycle cards into my hand.
I like the revised version but I can't wait to test it out once the gearhulks come and anger of the gods. IOK was great to pull Liliana or goyf if I had no countersquall or terminate. I left dark confidant and ooze if I had bolts in hand. Pretty much he never had a board established to take me down and I was swinging with tasigur and bolting for lethal.
I was honestly thinking of putting in a fourth CC. I currently run 3 in my build but I think the 4th, with the addition of gearhulks, will be a sweet add. Flashing Fatcaster in and having a CC to flash back is going to be nuts I feel. Being that CC is my only hard counter outside of spell snare and countersquall, I would love to see it more often and have the option to flash one back as often as needed. It's versatility is unmatched.
With that being said though I do feel I want to revamp my deck structure by cutting some singletons I have looming around and put in a 4th cryptic and maybe even 4 IOK. I want to try the hand disruption again and see how it goes. But to be able to do this I think I may need to move my spell snares to the SB? And even suffer the past which that one isn't a big deal but I'm not sure how I feel about spell snare not being in my mb..
What do you guys think?
I'll be able to post what I want to play test in a moment once I finish up some business.
The SB still needs to be worked with entirely because my spell snare need to be somewhere in there with some Geth's Verdict but I pretty much had to cut 1 terminate, 1 suffer the past, 1 Geth's Verdict, 1 Electrolyze, 3 spell snare and 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
It's a little wonky and I'm not sure how I feel about it because I kind of wanted to keep 3 terminate but I had to make room for anger of the gods. My idea is to rid their hands of spells with IOK that spell snare would have a slight chance at hitting, and to use the knowledge of their hand to my benefit and plan my counters around that. Adding the 4th Cryptic Command seemed like a sure go to thing thanks to torrential gearhulk. It's pretty much as if I were using snap anyways to flash one back yet I get a massive beater for pretty much the same cost of snap+cc. I would maybe like a little more card draw(?) such as electrolyze back instead of kolaghan's command but I like the versatility of the card and the options it brings to the table. kind of. I honestly haven't had a need yet to play it all that often but maybe bringing back one of my six flash-casters will be a nice combo to add to my arsenal. I swapped out Tasigur for Gearhulks.
Once I get my hands on 2 more IOK I will be able to fully test this deck out and see how it goes but I think it should bring some good times and maybe a smoother ride into the mid to late game where we tend to shine and do our best. I've always been a fan of hand disruption and I think there's a lot of things we can hit with IOK that will make our game one somewhat easier for us. Thoughts and suggestions?
@Cody_X: I actually use Jace, Unraveler of Secrets and he's been great to me so far. The scry draw is great for my draw go play style and the bounce he offers buys us an extra turn of damage or so and the ultimate just saves us resources for the late game. I agree he has been completely over looked in modern. I wouldn't say he's the one to end our troubles but he is definitely worth testing because he is fun and very viable.
I was wondering how filigree familiar would do in our deck. I was hoping it could be viable. It could go well with thoughtseize and kalitas. Pyromancer's goggles also seems very interesting. Getting double bolts, or electrolyze or our cruel would be insane. I'm very interested in testing it out and hearing feedback on those cards.
Tron was the matchup I least looked forward to but just as spastik said, be aggressive! Before last night I would try to stall until the late game and try to stop them then but it never worked. Last night I played differently than I normally do and it worked well. Countering every instance of map or scrying gives you so much time to get what you need. It came down to a game 3 that as the absolute most grind fest game I played. I finally won by casting my 2nd cruel for lethal after swinging for a few turns with double snaps out and landing 2 countersqualls for some added damage.
Honesty I feel even IOK isn't bad here because being able to pull out map, stirrings and scrying is really a big asset in slowing them down. You're praying that the shuffle favors you on their deck and they don't immediately draw into tron quickly. My opponent got all 4 mine pieces and 2 tower pieces before even seeing a plant the turn before he loses. Denying them search and reshuffle plays to our advantage greatly. Even shadow of doubt may come back into my sb again.
I definitely try to stop sylvan scrying and expedition map. Ancient stirrings is a good deep draw but sometimes I'll let it pass and save the counters for what comes after.
I did want to try condescend again for the nice X factor it brings late game with dreadship reef and plus the scry. I love scry lolol.
I went to my shop but I didn't play this week. Decided to save my pennies for kaladesh draft but I played against RG tron and it's honestly one matchup I play against a lot. Tron is all around not a favorable matchup for us unless game 2 and 3 we manage to stop the tron from coming online. Which is doable but difficult. I think thoughtseize is better for us in this case although I like IOK and it's ability to stop sylvan scrying ans expedition map. I speak strictly on RG tron. I haven't played against many other tron variantions.
I am going to try a more disrupt game play style with my list. Just adding 4 IOK mb and see how it goes until I can get some kalitas and switch over to thoughtseize.
On the note of blood moon, me personally, I would absolutely not play it myself. Not even put it in the sb. That's just me.
Last night I went to the shop and made some trades for some cards. I managed to get 2 tasigur, the golden fang and 1 consume the meek. While not the best sweeper, it's all he had and I figured it's better than nothing.
I was thinking I would try 4 IOK with tasigur and see how it goes. It might be able to work out. I was thinking of kalitas and when I do get one or two I'll swap out IOK for thoughtseize because of lifelink so it should work out a bit better and not be scary to cast thoughtseize.
Jace actually has won me quite a few games and one matchup entirely. The draw is nice and I love to scry because it helps me filter and dig for potentially what I need. I've managed to plus him to his ultimate twice and have my opponent scoop before I cast it. I like this Jace because of the ultimate. A free counter which saves you resources. Worst case scenario you draw a card or two while you have it.
I am going to try tasigur tonight and see how he helps me out, if it doesn't go too well then I'll be swapping him for kalitas.
@Spastik: It's a very recent addition. I used to run it way back when it was released but decided to give it another shot now and see how it does, I'll be sure to let you know!
@TheCommunistManatee: I know we've discussed devour flesh over geth's verdict but I just can't seem to get myself to play devour flesh because of the life gain. I know it shouldn't matter but I am just not that keen on the idea of my opponent gaining life while I am ticking them down. The mana cost hasn't really been that much of a factor for me. And with the dreadship reef that I just added I should be okay to cast it, hopefully, it hasn't brought me any trouble yet. And I do find myself lacking on the finishing part which is why I am trying suffer the past, I have thought about using tasigur, the golden fang at one point but never got around to getting some, and I have thought about kalitas too, but I'm kind of budget guy. I'll see if i can trade for some soon. And I'll also let you know how Suffer the past goes!
@Grimble: Draw-Go has been the way for me forever =D. I like the way it feels to play and work out. If I can get the thoughtseize's then I'll play those instead of IOK because I know late game, IOK is pretty much dead to me.
The deck I'm going to be bringing to the TNM is running something I used to have in back when it was released. I just loved what the card did and for it's costs I thought of it as a sleeper finisher. Where as we can count on casting cruel to be an absolute devastating blow to our enemies it doesn't always "finish" them off. Welcome Suffer the past.
I look at suffer the past as a surprise finisher to give me that little bit of extra damage to finish off my opponent or to help me stabilize. I've liked it in the past and think it will bring me some success this week. With everything that we counter or kill off, graveyards tend to fill up at a decent rate and for 1B and as much mana you can offer + cards willing, you can do some nice damage and swing things back in your favor with the damage they take and the life you gain. And with Snapcaster I think it's going to be that much more satisfying.
My mana base is still a bit iffy to me, I have a dreadship reef that I'm going to be adding somewhere in the mix, which is another card I had in mb but actually lost it so had to get another. I do want another Kolaghan's Command because I believe 2 will suit me nicely and I know that I do need some sort of sweeper and the best thing I have currently is volcanic Fallout :frown:. Against jund I feel content in my matchup as long as I play it smart. I typically have an answer for most of what they try to play at the time. Tron is still a nightmare and I am looking to swap out the sowing salts for crumble to dust. Zoo can be a decent matchup as long as I find enough of my kill spells, otherwise with no sweeper it's rough. I haven't played infect or naya but I'm sure they're around and I'll see them soon.
What I really would like to do is bring back 4 inquisition of kozilek, or maybe even 3, into the mb. The disruption it provides with the knowledge of cards is great for us to plan our counters or spells ahead of time and also adds a nice early feeding for suffer the past. It's a nice little twist that I bring to my deck and I think it's pretty fun to land it.
Countersquall is great. I run 2 mb with 2 geth's verdict to get some ping damage going to make landing a cruel all that more powerful. I have enough spell snares and counters for goyfs and everything else but countersquall is a nice, and stronger, negate.
Edit: I'm almost wondering if it's worth it to bring back inquisition of kozilek? ( i may end up doing a 2/2 split with thoughtseize but I don't like the damage we take) I know it's sort of meta dependent and deck dependent but I feel like I want to incorporate it once again into my deck but I'm not sure on how many to run, either 3 or 4 to actually see it early enough to matter, and what to take out to make room for them. I feel like the early disruption and knowledge of their hand can really help us save counters and plan our next moves for the late game. But again, I'm not sure if there's anything really worth taking out to put them in.
Also are you running crumble to dust mb or sb? I'm assuming sb but just want to make sure.
And is it worth running hand disruption such as inquisition of kozilek like we have before? And thoughtseize? I'm thinking of running a 2/2 split of the pair.
For now I have sowing salt until I can get my hands on crumble to dust through trade. I'll buy them as a last resort if need be.
Same goes with damnation. Would love to have it but trying to trade for one before buying. Otherwise I'm grabbing 2 anger of the gods for now.
Last time I was super happy leaving the shop managing to trade for 4 polluted delta to add to my deck so that's a plus, and finished my playset of cryptic commands as well. Hopefully this week I can find the remainder of what I need.
I was thinking engineered explosives for enchantments and bringing back spreading seas for troublesome lands. I loved the card when I ran 4of back when I played this deck standard. Even after then I kept it for the longest time because it was just so good for me so that's one of the options I'm mulling over. I've thought about ghost quarter as well but I'm not crazy on the idea of setting myself back a land. It gets the job done but my mana base is too sacred to me :).
Fullimator Mage is another real contender for the moment in land destruction but I'm not 100% with it.
so I went to another event last night and got absolutely wrecked. My only round win came from a bye. Other than that I couldn't get anything going against tron, twin variant and something else that I can't seem to remember.
Round one I lost going 1-2. I win game one but games 2 and three he wins thanks to rest in peace. It completely shut me down because I had no answer for enchantments. I tried to bounce it with cryptic but unfortunately had no counters for the re-play so..unlucky.
Game 2 was a near mirror matchup. It was the twin variant. I lose game 1 to huntmaster of the fells and its flip. For whatever reason I got really unlucky and could not find a geth's verdict or even terminate. Game 2 I board in dispel for his countermagic but it was no use. He wins the counter wars and
Kills me with hexproof man land. GG 0-2.
Round 3 is my bye. I win.
Round 4 I go against a tron deck and cavern of souls stops me from my counter magic. Chalice of the void stops me from burn spells. Game 2 I side in sowing salts and slaughter games and don't see a single one until the game is over.
This week was rough for me. Not much I could do in my matchups. I managed to get my hands on some trades and I'm going to post my deck list from last night and a tweaked version of what I want to run going forward. Hopefully next week goes smoother. If anybody can offer me advice as to how to play around cavern of souls or rest in peace, that would be nice. Hell even angel heart vial because I couldn't find my kolaghans command to rid the board of vial. This week I just felt useless in my matchups.
I like the revised version but I can't wait to test it out once the gearhulks come and anger of the gods. IOK was great to pull Liliana or goyf if I had no countersquall or terminate. I left dark confidant and ooze if I had bolts in hand. Pretty much he never had a board established to take me down and I was swinging with tasigur and bolting for lethal.
With that being said though I do feel I want to revamp my deck structure by cutting some singletons I have looming around and put in a 4th cryptic and maybe even 4 IOK. I want to try the hand disruption again and see how it goes. But to be able to do this I think I may need to move my spell snares to the SB? And even suffer the past which that one isn't a big deal but I'm not sure how I feel about spell snare not being in my mb..
What do you guys think?
I'll be able to post what I want to play test in a moment once I finish up some business.
Edit:
So this is what I would like to try and run
4 Polluted Delta
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Watery Grave
3 Island
1 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Sunken Ruins
1 Dreadship Reef
1 Blood Crypt
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Torrential Gearhulk
Spells
4 Serum Visions
4 lightning bolt
4 Cryptic Command
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Remand
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Countersquall
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Cruel Ultimatum
The SB still needs to be worked with entirely because my spell snare need to be somewhere in there with some Geth's Verdict but I pretty much had to cut 1 terminate, 1 suffer the past, 1 Geth's Verdict, 1 Electrolyze, 3 spell snare and 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang.
It's a little wonky and I'm not sure how I feel about it because I kind of wanted to keep 3 terminate but I had to make room for anger of the gods. My idea is to rid their hands of spells with IOK that spell snare would have a slight chance at hitting, and to use the knowledge of their hand to my benefit and plan my counters around that. Adding the 4th Cryptic Command seemed like a sure go to thing thanks to torrential gearhulk. It's pretty much as if I were using snap anyways to flash one back yet I get a massive beater for pretty much the same cost of snap+cc. I would maybe like a little more card draw(?) such as electrolyze back instead of kolaghan's command but I like the versatility of the card and the options it brings to the table. kind of. I honestly haven't had a need yet to play it all that often but maybe bringing back one of my six flash-casters will be a nice combo to add to my arsenal. I swapped out Tasigur for Gearhulks.
Once I get my hands on 2 more IOK I will be able to fully test this deck out and see how it goes but I think it should bring some good times and maybe a smoother ride into the mid to late game where we tend to shine and do our best. I've always been a fan of hand disruption and I think there's a lot of things we can hit with IOK that will make our game one somewhat easier for us. Thoughts and suggestions?
I would love to try out the new Chandra too.
Honesty I feel even IOK isn't bad here because being able to pull out map, stirrings and scrying is really a big asset in slowing them down. You're praying that the shuffle favors you on their deck and they don't immediately draw into tron quickly. My opponent got all 4 mine pieces and 2 tower pieces before even seeing a plant the turn before he loses. Denying them search and reshuffle plays to our advantage greatly. Even shadow of doubt may come back into my sb again.
I did want to try condescend again for the nice X factor it brings late game with dreadship reef and plus the scry. I love scry lolol.
I am going to try a more disrupt game play style with my list. Just adding 4 IOK mb and see how it goes until I can get some kalitas and switch over to thoughtseize.
On the note of blood moon, me personally, I would absolutely not play it myself. Not even put it in the sb. That's just me.
I was thinking I would try 4 IOK with tasigur and see how it goes. It might be able to work out. I was thinking of kalitas and when I do get one or two I'll swap out IOK for thoughtseize because of lifelink so it should work out a bit better and not be scary to cast thoughtseize.
Jace actually has won me quite a few games and one matchup entirely. The draw is nice and I love to scry because it helps me filter and dig for potentially what I need. I've managed to plus him to his ultimate twice and have my opponent scoop before I cast it. I like this Jace because of the ultimate. A free counter which saves you resources. Worst case scenario you draw a card or two while you have it.
I am going to try tasigur tonight and see how he helps me out, if it doesn't go too well then I'll be swapping him for kalitas.
@TheCommunistManatee: I know we've discussed devour flesh over geth's verdict but I just can't seem to get myself to play devour flesh because of the life gain. I know it shouldn't matter but I am just not that keen on the idea of my opponent gaining life while I am ticking them down. The mana cost hasn't really been that much of a factor for me. And with the dreadship reef that I just added I should be okay to cast it, hopefully, it hasn't brought me any trouble yet. And I do find myself lacking on the finishing part which is why I am trying suffer the past, I have thought about using tasigur, the golden fang at one point but never got around to getting some, and I have thought about kalitas too, but I'm kind of budget guy. I'll see if i can trade for some soon. And I'll also let you know how Suffer the past goes!
@Grimble: Draw-Go has been the way for me forever =D. I like the way it feels to play and work out. If I can get the thoughtseize's then I'll play those instead of IOK because I know late game, IOK is pretty much dead to me.
3 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Sunken Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
2 Steam Vents
1 Blood Crypt
2 Watery Grave
2 Sulfur Falls
3 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dragonskull Summit
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Snapcaster Mage
Spells:
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Serum Visions
3 Cryptic Command
3 Spell snare
3 Remand
3 Terminate
3 Electrolyze
2 Countersquall
2 Geth's Verdict
2 Cruel Ultimatum
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Suffer the Past
3 Sowing Salt
2 Slaughter Games
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdiffer's Cage
1 Dismember
1 Jace, Unraveler of Secrets
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Spellskite
1 Dispel
2 Counterflux
I look at suffer the past as a surprise finisher to give me that little bit of extra damage to finish off my opponent or to help me stabilize. I've liked it in the past and think it will bring me some success this week. With everything that we counter or kill off, graveyards tend to fill up at a decent rate and for 1B and as much mana you can offer + cards willing, you can do some nice damage and swing things back in your favor with the damage they take and the life you gain. And with Snapcaster I think it's going to be that much more satisfying.
My mana base is still a bit iffy to me, I have a dreadship reef that I'm going to be adding somewhere in the mix, which is another card I had in mb but actually lost it so had to get another. I do want another Kolaghan's Command because I believe 2 will suit me nicely and I know that I do need some sort of sweeper and the best thing I have currently is volcanic Fallout :frown:. Against jund I feel content in my matchup as long as I play it smart. I typically have an answer for most of what they try to play at the time. Tron is still a nightmare and I am looking to swap out the sowing salts for crumble to dust. Zoo can be a decent matchup as long as I find enough of my kill spells, otherwise with no sweeper it's rough. I haven't played infect or naya but I'm sure they're around and I'll see them soon.
What I really would like to do is bring back 4 inquisition of kozilek, or maybe even 3, into the mb. The disruption it provides with the knowledge of cards is great for us to plan our counters or spells ahead of time and also adds a nice early feeding for suffer the past. It's a nice little twist that I bring to my deck and I think it's pretty fun to land it.
Edit: I'm almost wondering if it's worth it to bring back inquisition of kozilek? ( i may end up doing a 2/2 split with thoughtseize but I don't like the damage we take) I know it's sort of meta dependent and deck dependent but I feel like I want to incorporate it once again into my deck but I'm not sure on how many to run, either 3 or 4 to actually see it early enough to matter, and what to take out to make room for them. I feel like the early disruption and knowledge of their hand can really help us save counters and plan our next moves for the late game. But again, I'm not sure if there's anything really worth taking out to put them in.
And is it worth running hand disruption such as inquisition of kozilek like we have before? And thoughtseize? I'm thinking of running a 2/2 split of the pair.
Same goes with damnation. Would love to have it but trying to trade for one before buying. Otherwise I'm grabbing 2 anger of the gods for now.
Last time I was super happy leaving the shop managing to trade for 4 polluted delta to add to my deck so that's a plus, and finished my playset of cryptic commands as well. Hopefully this week I can find the remainder of what I need.
Fullimator Mage is another real contender for the moment in land destruction but I'm not 100% with it.
Round one I lost going 1-2. I win game one but games 2 and three he wins thanks to rest in peace. It completely shut me down because I had no answer for enchantments. I tried to bounce it with cryptic but unfortunately had no counters for the re-play so..unlucky.
Game 2 was a near mirror matchup. It was the twin variant. I lose game 1 to huntmaster of the fells and its flip. For whatever reason I got really unlucky and could not find a geth's verdict or even terminate. Game 2 I board in dispel for his countermagic but it was no use. He wins the counter wars and
Kills me with hexproof man land. GG 0-2.
Round 3 is my bye. I win.
Round 4 I go against a tron deck and cavern of souls stops me from my counter magic. Chalice of the void stops me from burn spells. Game 2 I side in sowing salts and slaughter games and don't see a single one until the game is over.
This week was rough for me. Not much I could do in my matchups. I managed to get my hands on some trades and I'm going to post my deck list from last night and a tweaked version of what I want to run going forward. Hopefully next week goes smoother. If anybody can offer me advice as to how to play around cavern of souls or rest in peace, that would be nice. Hell even angel heart vial because I couldn't find my kolaghans command to rid the board of vial. This week I just felt useless in my matchups.