I played this deck at JSS and got 10th place, its rediculously good
I think "rediculously good" is a bit of an exaggeration. The deck is not in any way smart or synergistic. For all it's power, it is essentially a big blunt instrument. Pretty much an amalgam of some of the best cards in Standard.
I think it folds to any deck with a decent amount of countermagic - those decks will rise to counter the surge of Solar Flare that's bound to enter. The meta-game will tilt a bit, but this glaring weakness will ensure it doesn't rule the format in an unhealthy way.
Flores suggest those win conditions in his UW deck and you people are noobs if you think that your toughts top Mike Flroes.
Flores is a smart guy, but he's not always right. I remember he used to say that Divining Top was a bad card when it first showed up.
More so than even the removal issue, what frustrates me about Dragons is that they can't simultaneously play offense and defense. If an opponent plays any decent size creature, or even threatens to play a Jitte, you've got to hold them back (assuming they've dealt a decent amount of damage in the early game) or risk being burned out. Windreaver can get in for 5 a turn while playing defense for 4 mana a turn. By the time you're ready to start attacking, that'll usually leave mana up for 2 counters still.
If they point a removal spell at Windreaver, he's back attacking in a turn. If they kill your dragon, you may have to wait 10 or more turns just to draw another win condition. Meanwhile they're chucking burn at your face, and chances are you can't counter every spell and creature they play in those 10 turns.
Hi everyone,
A friend and I just recently started a Podcast, and after struggling our way through some technical issues, we've finally produced something that I'm not embarassed to attach my name to. I'll freely admit it's not the most professionally hosted or edited show you'll ever hear, but we're still working out the kinks. I'm not 100% happy with it yet, but I want to get it out there so that we can find out what people like or don't like. Hopefully iy will only get better.
The cast is directed at all facets of semi-competitive magic players - all formats from Legacy to Limited. I started the cast simply because I enjoyed talking about the game and didn't really have much of a chance to do so, so we've tried to keep it conversational and casual.
You can find it here: Turn It Sideways. Feel free to ignore episode #1, it's pretty bad.
Thanks for listening, and please share your comments.
ooh, thanks, now we have whole set full of crap like block before this set did!
Seriously, why do people even bother with posts like this? The game is and always will be full of Limited fodder and every set will only add a handful of constructed playable cards. It's the way the game has been for a long time now, if you expect something different you're just deceiving yourself.
I agree that the Thrull is somewhat sub-par, but he's still fine for limited. I remember when everyone first saw Loxodon Mystic and thought he was junk for the same reasons... Bottom line is that tappers are always good in Limited.
Streetbreaker Wurm is okay in Limited, and would normally be a welcome addition to the limited cardpool, but it's sadly quite a bit worse than Golgari Rotwurm and thus, kinda boring.
The flavor of the card (theoretical color-pie issues aside) is fantastic... reanimating the bodies of debtors is perfect flavor for the Orzhov's "evil merchant church" shtick.
Although it has been done before... anyone ever played Planescape: Torment on the PC?
Blockbuster is better (in Limited) than people are giving it credit for. Breaking the synergy requires almost zero effort -- you go about your turn as normal, and if they ever attack you, you just pop this during your turn, before your attack, and wipe their board. If white has any tapper-effects, this card just be unfair.
Cycling and the fetchlands did something useful by themselves. Having the creature-type spirit does nothing on it's own. Aside from being out of flavor for the block, (which you may disagree with, that's fine) it adds nothing mechanically by itself. It is what it obviously is: an after thought glued on to the set for the purpose of fulfilling Wizard's promise of more interaction between blocks.
I don't see how you can say that, seeing as how we really only have vague ideas about what the flavor of the Dimir guild will be (which seems to be where the majority of the spirits are coming from). Having the creature type Spirit may not do anything on its own, but it doesn't take away anything either... and if done correctly, it'll actually make for very cool flavor. I wouldn't say it's an "elegant" solution but it's not inelegant either, and I certainly don't think its anything to complain about.
I wouldn't underestimate the expensive Vedalken guy -- I think he's playable in Limited. I've always been a fan of Fallow Earth or Time Ebb like effects, and this guy is basically a Gray Ogre with a Time Ebb attached. It's always a big tempo play -- it denies a draw, removes a blocker for a turn, and makes them replay their creature.
I'm happy with all of these cards for Limited -- they're all great.
I think people are getting to hung up on the milling thing. It says "from anywhere." I mean, I'm sure this isn't news, but cards go to the graveyard all the time and not just from mills. If you remove on their guys, destroy a land, make them discard a card, or they cast a sorcery this guy pumps. To be good (efficient) he only has to active twice! Not hard at all.
I don't understand what your problem with the set is, WarEmblem. It's got great flavour and it's power level is at least on par with Kamigawa (and by most accounts far far better)...
I disagree with those saying this is useless to WW.
It's true that the Convoke isn't super useful, but on the other hand you almost always are playing an untapped creature each turn, so it likely costs 1W which isn't bad. If any strong, playable Vigilant creatures show up, it'll be that much better.
Second, even if it doesn't remove a creature before blocking, it's certainly much better to use this against a Kokusho or what have you instead of letting the fatty eat a creature each turn. The fact that it breaks up recursion and graveyard triggers is cluth, too.
As for utility creatures, at least in KBC, most of the problematic ones either a) doesn't matter if you remove them (Kagemaro) or they often attack and/or block anyway (Meloku). Usually by the time a deck plays a utility legend like Meloku they are already on their heels, and this will punish anyone who tries to block or attack with them.
I think "rediculously good" is a bit of an exaggeration. The deck is not in any way smart or synergistic. For all it's power, it is essentially a big blunt instrument. Pretty much an amalgam of some of the best cards in Standard.
I think it folds to any deck with a decent amount of countermagic - those decks will rise to counter the surge of Solar Flare that's bound to enter. The meta-game will tilt a bit, but this glaring weakness will ensure it doesn't rule the format in an unhealthy way.
Yes, but as a one-of it's rather inconsistent.
How is keeping counter mana up any different than any other threat? Keiga dies to counters *and* Mortify, where the 'Reaver at least dodges Mortify.
When I played Keiga, I'd often have nothing to do with my mana anyway other than counter spells. I don't need all eight mana to do that.
Flores is a smart guy, but he's not always right. I remember he used to say that Divining Top was a bad card when it first showed up.
More so than even the removal issue, what frustrates me about Dragons is that they can't simultaneously play offense and defense. If an opponent plays any decent size creature, or even threatens to play a Jitte, you've got to hold them back (assuming they've dealt a decent amount of damage in the early game) or risk being burned out. Windreaver can get in for 5 a turn while playing defense for 4 mana a turn. By the time you're ready to start attacking, that'll usually leave mana up for 2 counters still.
If they point a removal spell at Windreaver, he's back attacking in a turn. If they kill your dragon, you may have to wait 10 or more turns just to draw another win condition. Meanwhile they're chucking burn at your face, and chances are you can't counter every spell and creature they play in those 10 turns.
A friend and I just recently started a Podcast, and after struggling our way through some technical issues, we've finally produced something that I'm not embarassed to attach my name to. I'll freely admit it's not the most professionally hosted or edited show you'll ever hear, but we're still working out the kinks. I'm not 100% happy with it yet, but I want to get it out there so that we can find out what people like or don't like. Hopefully iy will only get better.
The cast is directed at all facets of semi-competitive magic players - all formats from Legacy to Limited. I started the cast simply because I enjoyed talking about the game and didn't really have much of a chance to do so, so we've tried to keep it conversational and casual.
You can find it here: Turn It Sideways. Feel free to ignore episode #1, it's pretty bad.
Thanks for listening, and please share your comments.
Seriously, why do people even bother with posts like this? The game is and always will be full of Limited fodder and every set will only add a handful of constructed playable cards. It's the way the game has been for a long time now, if you expect something different you're just deceiving yourself.
Although it has been done before... anyone ever played Planescape: Torment on the PC?
I don't see how you can say that, seeing as how we really only have vague ideas about what the flavor of the Dimir guild will be (which seems to be where the majority of the spirits are coming from). Having the creature type Spirit may not do anything on its own, but it doesn't take away anything either... and if done correctly, it'll actually make for very cool flavor. I wouldn't say it's an "elegant" solution but it's not inelegant either, and I certainly don't think its anything to complain about.
I'm happy with all of these cards for Limited -- they're all great.
I don't understand what your problem with the set is, WarEmblem. It's got great flavour and it's power level is at least on par with Kamigawa (and by most accounts far far better)...
It's true that the Convoke isn't super useful, but on the other hand you almost always are playing an untapped creature each turn, so it likely costs 1W which isn't bad. If any strong, playable Vigilant creatures show up, it'll be that much better.
Second, even if it doesn't remove a creature before blocking, it's certainly much better to use this against a Kokusho or what have you instead of letting the fatty eat a creature each turn. The fact that it breaks up recursion and graveyard triggers is cluth, too.
As for utility creatures, at least in KBC, most of the problematic ones either a) doesn't matter if you remove them (Kagemaro) or they often attack and/or block anyway (Meloku). Usually by the time a deck plays a utility legend like Meloku they are already on their heels, and this will punish anyone who tries to block or attack with them.