Im obviously talking about the only competitive red deck, rdw which will be improved with m12. Obstinate baloth can be good.. if you draw more than 1 even then it might not be good enough. Rdw only needs 2-4 lands to win and possibly even 1 after a destructive force. As for twin combo, how often do you get combo pieces when even the real twin deck has problems getting combo pieces? Oh and they do want to waste removal on simulacrum, after all they need targets for searing blaze.
Thing is you're doing nothing while ramping to a t4 (if lucky) or turn 5 force, which in that time you will be taking a beating. If you manage to play baloth, your not ramping so you'll be playing force later than normal which nullifies the life gain of baloth because they can finish you off with the turn(s) you lost ramping
Try testing vs red, because I already did. I know it's not the only deck in the format but it will be something to look out for. I feel like this deck is similar to mass polymorph. Any control player can play around the deck and save counters for force once they know whats going on. I guess that's what twin is for but you better make sure you're getting those combo pieces
I main doom blade because i run into more wurmcoil than vamps around here and its hard for me to kill wurmcoil. I decided not to use seas because valakut players usually get their valakuts out when they play titan so I either hold on to spreading seas in my hand or play it on their mountains early game which i find isn't good enough. By the time I want to cast it on their valakuts I've already taken a lot of damage. I'd rather spend my turn 2 3 and 4 killing and countering ramp.
Is flashfreeze and spot removal good enough for the rdw matchup or do we need to take up 3 sb slots for this? It gains life like baloth but its in bolt range. Thoughts?
In my list, what would i be taking out for 4 seas?
I anticipate my meta to be twin, vala, eldrazi green (mainly) and then elves/rdw/vamps but less popular
Im questioning its usefulness against valakut and eldrazi. I seem to always have a really hard time against eldrazi even with seas. What are your thoughtS?
hmm Omen Machine might hurt me but I guess i could use it as 1 of or 2 for extra jankiness but i would need to put some more scrying in my deck in order to get it on top of my deck. What i like about it is that omen machine says you MAY CAST that card which means emrakul and ulamog's casting abilities will work.
I've been looking at Vorinclex voice of hunger as a 1 of or 2 to replace ulamog. If i can get that on the table with clone shell, i can pretty much hard cast emrakul when vorinclex is flipped over
I have removed knowledge pool from the deck as it is terrible for the deck. I didn't know your opponent can cast spells from your pool. I have updated the list and it is surprisingly consistent. I do worry about act of aggression on clone shell. Would he be able to flip over the exiled card if he steals the shell? If not then im ok. I put in creeping corrosion as a 2 of as it is just great. Also i took out battlements because it messed up ramping a bit and a t2 growth spasm is better for this deck. I found that battlement dies easily nowadays and everyone lets the eldrazi spawn token live. Also augury owl is gone because it just gets in the way of ramping.
I have created a sideboard to deal with my hardest matchups being rdw and pump infect. There is some pretty sweet tech in it. Living destiny almost always allows to to gain 11 or 15 life t3 or t4 stalling rdw a lot. Fog prevents a pumped infect creature from hitting you and is good for rdw too. Spellskite is also good for infect decks. The rest of the SB is open to change and suggestions.
Also a word on the 2 mitotic manipulation MD. These can allow you to ramp if you don't get growth spasm you can cast it and pull a land or birds from the library. Also they can get you another clone shell on the table. I am willing to change the mitotics to something else. My other options were into the roil, spell pierce or phyrexian metamorph.
Note: I don't run nonbasic lands because I am just fed up of all the tectonic edges going around! It is still consistent because im running 2 colors so mana screw is not an issue
I present you the updated list which is close to perfection. Comments?
4 Clone Shell
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Emrakul. the Aeons Torn
3 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
This is my build it has 3 win cons via summ trap, clone shell, knowledge pool. Did not playtest thoroughly but i beat mono red control and eldrazi green. The idea is to clone shell or knowledge pool/trap into eldrazi beasts. If your opp won't kill clone shell then you nature's claim it. Birds and battlement is to ramp into an early win con. Augury owl is to fix library as well as preordain. See beyond is to throw back eldrazi in the library. This deck needs a lot of work but it could be something. It is possible to do the combo in different colors but I can't think of anything right now.
Innovative build. Don't think its competitive yet but I love building decks. Spit out a large amount of creatures sac all with viscera seer or bloodthrone vamp or dross hopper at their end of turn and fresh meat for beasts. Quest for the gravelord activates when all your creatures go in the graveyard so you get an extra 5/5 to attack with. Cool huh? Thoughts?
My issues with the deck are not getting the combo pieces (Sac creature or fresh meat) and emptying my hand out quick. Also if the meat somehow gets countered your dead in the water. I also worked on a BWG version with blade splicer, origin spellbomb and possibly shrine of loyal legions. That version had awakening zone too.
Thing is you're doing nothing while ramping to a t4 (if lucky) or turn 5 force, which in that time you will be taking a beating. If you manage to play baloth, your not ramping so you'll be playing force later than normal which nullifies the life gain of baloth because they can finish you off with the turn(s) you lost ramping
Try testing vs red, because I already did. I know it's not the only deck in the format but it will be something to look out for. I feel like this deck is similar to mass polymorph. Any control player can play around the deck and save counters for force once they know whats going on. I guess that's what twin is for but you better make sure you're getting those combo pieces
My take on it would be a UB control deck with added white which can strenghten the rdw matchup. What does white bring to ub control?
Is this good enough to make it esper?
Is flashfreeze and spot removal good enough for the rdw matchup or do we need to take up 3 sb slots for this? It gains life like baloth but its in bolt range. Thoughts?
I anticipate my meta to be twin, vala, eldrazi green (mainly) and then elves/rdw/vamps but less popular
Here is my list without seas.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Tectonic Edge
6 Swamp
4 Island
1 Grave Titan
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Into the Roil
3 Go for the Throat
4 Preordain
1 Black Sun's Zenith
2 Doom Blade
4 Mana leak
2 Jace's Ingenuity
3 Jace Beleren
2 Despise
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Memoricide
3 Peace Strider
2 Doom Blade
4 Disfigure
2 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Into the Roil
1 Go for the Throat
Im questioning its usefulness against valakut and eldrazi. I seem to always have a really hard time against eldrazi even with seas. What are your thoughtS?
hmm Omen Machine might hurt me but I guess i could use it as 1 of or 2 for extra jankiness but i would need to put some more scrying in my deck in order to get it on top of my deck. What i like about it is that omen machine says you MAY CAST that card which means emrakul and ulamog's casting abilities will work.
I've been looking at Vorinclex voice of hunger as a 1 of or 2 to replace ulamog. If i can get that on the table with clone shell, i can pretty much hard cast emrakul when vorinclex is flipped over
I have created a sideboard to deal with my hardest matchups being rdw and pump infect. There is some pretty sweet tech in it. Living destiny almost always allows to to gain 11 or 15 life t3 or t4 stalling rdw a lot. Fog prevents a pumped infect creature from hitting you and is good for rdw too. Spellskite is also good for infect decks. The rest of the SB is open to change and suggestions.
Also a word on the 2 mitotic manipulation MD. These can allow you to ramp if you don't get growth spasm you can cast it and pull a land or birds from the library. Also they can get you another clone shell on the table. I am willing to change the mitotics to something else. My other options were into the roil, spell pierce or phyrexian metamorph.
Note: I don't run nonbasic lands because I am just fed up of all the tectonic edges going around! It is still consistent because im running 2 colors so mana screw is not an issue
I present you the updated list which is close to perfection. Comments?
4 Clone Shell
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Emrakul. the Aeons Torn
3 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
4 See Beyond
4 Preordain
4 Growth Spasm
3 Summoning Trap
3 Nature's Claim
2 Mitotic Manipulation
2 Creeping Corrosion
4 Misty Rainforest
9 Forest
10 Island
Give the deck a shot. Let me know how you do, but it is really really good vs eldrazi green and valakut
Comments please?
4 Augury Owl
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Emrakul. the Aeons Torn
3 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
3 Overgrown Battlement
4 Preordain
2 Knowledge Pool
2 Summoning Trap
3 Nature's Claim
9 Forest
10 Island
Best thing i've done so far is cast clone shell only to have it countered and laugh when i cast summoning trap into emrakul
Please do not double post, use the edit button.
Lands
4 Khalni Garden (Token to sac)
4 Verdant Catacombs
9 Swamp
5 Forest
4 Ornithopter
4 Memnite
4 Birds of paradise
4 Nest Invader
4 Viscera Seer
3 Dross Hopper
4 Bloodthrone Vampire
4 Fresh Meat
4 Quest for Gravelord
3 Explore
My issues with the deck are not getting the combo pieces (Sac creature or fresh meat) and emptying my hand out quick. Also if the meat somehow gets countered your dead in the water. I also worked on a BWG version with blade splicer, origin spellbomb and possibly shrine of loyal legions. That version had awakening zone too.