I have yet to drop a match to mill. Just snap caster the first thing you can and attack a lot. Counter something that eats a lot of you're library. Sb in a bunch of win cons.
Also, I've been seeing this curious thing were people have been sbing Leyline of sanctity against this deck. It's like a mulligan that they sometimes try to mulligan into. If anyone is reading this thread for sb advice against draw go, don't bring in leyline. Either you don't have a lot of dudes and the removal is sb out in some amount, or I'm just "forced" to burn off your dudes like I wanted to anyways.
Yeah, against control you really want pod, it's your do-nothing combo pieces that die to removal that you don't want. Cards a control player hate to see in play are Voice of Resurgence, Kitchen Finks and Birthing Pod. Basically, things that create card advantage for you are great, and things they can answer as 1-for-1 or even 1-for-2 are so-so. Look at the finals of Owen vs Mclaren; he boarded out his combo pieces, won the best of three (sadly it was a best of five), but he would've won the last game had he drawn a pod instead of land, land, land.
^this. I'm pretty sure standard protocol is to sb out combo I'm this match up because he can just make insane value with everything else you do.
Pod-less version is better against UWR. I lost 2 games to it because of mana-screw.
I played Pod version but it so awfull when you invest 4 or 3+2HP mana into pod and it gets countered. Also Melira is not Kiki-Pod. She can not combo in a single turn so Pod doesn`t have so big of advantage and any attempts to assemble 3-card combo against UWR will meet its removal, so i found that aggro variant is better gainst them.
For example tarmo-twin is a bad mutchup for melira but I managed to win first game bacause of turn 4 infinite life combo(chord in response to pestermite on my turn).
PS: I lost 1 game to UR Delver just because of Hibernation. Having 4 Muderous redcap realy helps that matchup.
PPS: I tried to test Leed the stamped in my deck and it was absolutely fantastic late game. Actualy I won because of it found me white Titan and i brought back last combo piece from grave.
PPPS: Ironicaly Melira-Pod is bad mutchup for podless version
PPPPS: Also everybody sides-in artifact hate against melira. And I have oppotunity to not have any artifacts
You are definitely not casting pod at the right times. And probably not activating it correctly. The card generates insane value and is very high powered.
Hard game one. Fine g2 and 3. Between things like snare, wrath effects, and wear/tear, which should be everywhere and using electrolyze to buy you time and power down SSS, I'm not incredibly worried about Bb as a card. Other than that, people haven't been playing faeries as is... So I suspect it's not going to be too insane. If it is there are ansewers we could be playing/playing more of than we currently are.
You won't want to md SS over TTwice, the instant speed and the flashback are huge, especially against Jund.
Sowing salt comes down too late against tron, they already have their formation by then and have ghost quarter to ruin that gameplan. I go for the full playset of SS since it disrupts significantly earlier, cantrips, and is good vs other matchups too (burn, mirror match to hit manlands without spending a card and and any deck that relies on 18-20 lands). So SS actually frees up sb slots, I recommend at least trying it out as a 4 of in the sb before dismissing it. I haven't looked back since I made that switch
I just don't like the gameplan of hoping to draw into 1 of the 2 sowing salts in a timely matter and when it's still a significant play.
Bribery is a good card against tron if you're looking for something that wins on its own
SSeas seems unnecessary, I've never wished I had it in any matchup. Deck already has huge game against jund though so I wouldn't use it to justify much in either direction.
I've been running pretty favorably against tron with the solo sb salt. It's a lot of counter/path ur first tron play, then tec-edge you. Maybe land a sb mindsensor (they're good against scapeshift too) or counter a land search. Salt is just a more permanent version of the last third the plan (the optional part). Usualy counter +tec-edge buys you a lot of time.
Alright people, so I'm personally loving this deck and am about to o purchase it. I'm kind of budgted so I'm running the deck fetchless, and that is something interesting I've noticed. By only playing shocks and some all color lands along with tolaria west I have never really had any consistency issues and I think that having more lands in the deck is beneficial in case the opponent keeps a bunch of lands up, I know its rare but still a possibility.
Also, I am definitly a big fan of boseiju, who shelters all, but have had a fair share of problems with it. First, it enters tapped with no way to untap it, this can be problematic as it is a do nothing if cast on the turn comboing off. It taps for colorless, this is probably a smaller problem as occasionaly, not often, I have run into the colorless mana being a factor. Lastly, in playtesting I have come across a situation where paying the 2 life is ot doable, because I'm eitherreally lucky and stuck at one, or have phyrexian unlife and am in the negatives, and this negate boseiju as a mana source. Don't know how much of a problem this is, just some thoughts.
I don't know what people have had success with, but every deck I see is running 22 or 23 lands, my list only runs 21. Also I have no basics, is the blood moon problem there just so bad that basics are a must?
All in all great deck, and I hope to get it IRL and play some tournaments.
I've never had an issue that happened BECASUE I was playing fetches, but they've
1. thinned my deck
2. shuffled put something I wanted that was previously bottom by serum or sleight
3. added consistency and avoided land destruction from my opponents.
These things are all good in general, but are PARTICULARLY good in combo. if you don't have fetches that's fine, but given the option, I'd play them 100% of the time in here.
I've had the same issues with Boseju as well here and there. its very very good against twin, I've never not liked in there obviously. against UWR it gets tec edged sometime, I've been know to sb in a 2nd one there. against fact agro I definitely sb it out, because of the 2 life issue. but it still taps as a swamp under tomb of yawgmoth, so there's that. i wouldn't take it out of the deck at this point.
I really loved having an excuse to rune 4x stony silence in my sb. as of right now I'm keeping it in there. It beats robots, but also hit a lot of stuff in tron: the eggs, the maps, the oblivion stone, sometimes some mana, the relics. It usually bought be enough time to kill them of play their wurm when they cast it. I also sb pithing needle to hit karn, the eldrazi land, or any of those things previously mentioned. I've considered the fulminator in hopes of ramping it out turn 2 but the only thing i'd want it over needle against is tron.
I haven't considered the duress effects before to seriously, but I can see how its good.
one thing I really want to fit into my sb is slaughter games.
Hey guys, I'm pretty new to this deck (I've been playing Jund in modern for quite a while new and I feel like trying something new).
This is a list I've been working on and I want to take it to a GPT on Thursday, I would love some advice about my list:
I wanted to try playing with Dark Confidant since I think he's fantastic in aggro. Also changed my Lingering Souls for Loxodon Smiter since I think he helps more in most match ups and that brings up my creature count to a number that makes me feel like running Domri Rade.
Absolutely no one will question you about that forest.
That list is very similar to what I run
I know you are trying to up your dude count for domri, but I'd still try and stick those paths in the main for killing wurms, restos, goyf, ect... with out having some 2 for 1 happening. Unfortunately, the 12 burn spells you have in there are completely uncuttable. This just might not be a domri deck. It's pretty much the burniest zoo variant there is, and turn three is a little lat to be trying to gain advantage in a deck that kills turn 4.5 average. in playing him you decided to not commit a dude to the board turn 2 or 3 to try and rip a dude a little under half the time for turn 3 or 4. It seems really bad against tron and scapshift.
What is the baloth for? Do you just really want to get that Liliana? Costing 4 against mono red with 2 green might put you in a spot where you have to crack a few more fetches for untapped than you want, watch that and see if its an issue. You can also try rhox war monk or finks there if indeed you want something for burn. I get most of my wins playing the control roll there and snapcastering lightning helixes
You might be over sbing with the thrun, in testing try playing with out it and seeing if it tanks your win%.
LET ME KNOW HOW THE FULMINATOR MAGE WORKS OUT! I've been super curious about that dude recently but he seems too targeted at tron.
Thanks for an awesome reply. First on misty I know it gets grave I'd just rather hard draw a forest and be able to use misty to play a turn 1 noble. I see why you built it how you did I'm on 3 snap as well. I think I still prefer linger but that's mostly becuase Im really liking voice who is even grosser vs counters and has good synergy with linger. I may even run a 3rd over the elspeth but I haven't really drew her alot so I want to test her more.
Might of alara is good. It's always been goid for me and looks like you never tried it. It's 5 damage for 1 mama most times giving you another 5 snap target for 1 mana. Like boros charm you can use it to pump a giest or w/e and possibly survive combat though I think might is still better here not even looking at cost. In addition this format is covered in bolts for removal. If someone bolts your goyf when the yard is only instant and land making them think should I wait to bolt on attack or just go now on my turn. Not to mention if they do it on attack you get a pump and counter the spell essitially . Running 2 gives you more consistant reach its just a good card I think 2 is the correct number.
On voice as SB or md how many cards that you bring in for control help you fight there control and are cards that deal damage? The card is always better than I expect and honestly not really bad aginst anything not to say I would board it out ever but it's been really good. If elspeth isn't that good in my testing I think I'll go 3. Again thanks for your input I don't think one way or anothe is correct both paths seems strong.
Might of alara is just too conditional to be consistent for me. Sure it occasional cracks for five because your opponent has no blockers and no removal, but again, that situation already looks good for you. Sure, your opponent can miss play and try to burn off your dude at the wrong time (they have to make two separate timing mistakes for that to work, similar to messing up against vines in infect) and you can pump it with might and it gets in. Might isn't a bad spell exactly, its just something I'd play after the things I'm already playing guess. I've been cutting down on the Boros charms lately, but it still gets the nod over might for me because of those games you win with out sticking a single dude and just burning face. You just can't do that with might. By all means though if your opponents aren't playing around it or its just plain working for you, go with might (I'd love to live the dream and might something and then charm it for double strike lol). You can't argue with results... too much.
The control match really depends on the variant. I've found that pithing needle goes a long way in getting value off of manlands, shuts of walkers in a pinch, and lets you actually remove a batterskull permanently if it comes to that (but having to do that really sucks). Ramping geist is obviously good, and just casting smiter causes them issues. If I'm feeling saucy I'll bring in sulfur elemental, its an additional uncounterable surprise eot. Sulfur elemental also brings all the restos into bolt/helix range. He additional kills of timely reinforcement tolkens and takes finks out of value town. But honestly, you have to be carful with the elemental. Hilariously, one makes geist an effective 8/1, but two kills him. It also puts smiters into the same bolt range 5/3's. It sorta just ups the ante all around. I've definitely given my opponents 5/2 restos, but I knew I would be able to handle it. I just have to emphasis that I DON'T really recommend the sulfur elemental, but it is something I like to do .Try it if you want.
Why do you perfect watery grave to overgrown tomb? I wanted my 2 misty rainforest to access black. What MU do you favor Loxodon over linger and why? Does anyone still play elspeth I only have 1 but in my testing she has been a pretty awesome 1 of. I don't think I'd want 4 might of alara but without instant speed removal they declare no blocker for your 4/5 goyf and there at 14 might snap might for 4 mama suprize 10 damage sucker. It's a fine card
On PatH main deck how do you guys like it ? Are you playing aginst alot of tron I like the card but it doesn't feel like a core card for the Md when I have played it. I kind of see linger Loxodon voice elspeth and path to exile as the cards you can run In this decks 4-8 last swing slots not sure witch is best but so far in my testing it looks like linger > voice / Loxodon and 1-2 elspeth is good. Path just seems very MU dependant but I have added an extra in my SB it's been good vs tron as is alot of my SB.
Well this might shock you (pun intended), but with watery grave instead of overgrown tomb your Mistys still access black. Think about that. I prefer them because I used to run the overgrown tomb in that slot. I would occasionally wish it was watery grave in events, so I switched it. Haven't wanted it to be the overgrown yet. When I play, I usually cover getting a green source pretty early along with red and white. Later, when I have a fetch and am looking for blue to snapcaster and black to deathrite or get full domain, doing half and doubling up on green seems poor.
I currently run 3 snappy main and 3 mm out of the sb so I may use blue more than most. But when I ran 2 and 2 I still wanted the watery grave more than tomb.
I really prefer the smiter against anything with counter spells (you make sure it happens, all of it, and it's higher impact) or anything running liliana (the free "haste" crack back is way better than paying 2 mana for 2 power there). I used to run lingering, but I would occasionally just lose where smiter wouldn't have.
I also prefer the smiter against tron, it's more power more quickly when you're trying to race. It also doesn't get clasmed.
I know people like lingering against robots, but that matchup seems to revolve around beating the equipment and burning off a few buff guys.
I also know people like it against infect, and it's good there. However, with the 15 removal spells plus snapcasters, it is already a good matchup.
Smither has just been better against what you need it for. Being a 3 cc 4/4 it just has a higher floor than souls. It's a more aggressive card for a deck that wants to be aggressive.
I hadn't tested voice yet. No opinion on better or worse.
On might of alara: I feel like if they have no instant removal and no blockers on your 4/5 you shouldn't need much help winning. This deck really doesn't have a reach issue without it.
As far as killing bigger dudes, boros charm seems just as good and offers sweeper protection, not to mention deals respectable direct dmg without requiring something to go unblocked or in unbolted.
Straight up, I think elspeth is too expensive and makes you run more lands than you want to. If you land her though, jumping Geist is nuts.
On path: I used to run two, but kept running into wurmcoils and upped to three. There are times I wish it was a burn spell though. I'd never want to run 4.
Hi, I've been looking for a new modern deck to play because UWR geist is getting kind of stale. I already play Gruul zoo so I was looking around when I realized I own Geist of Saint TraftSnapcaster Mage fetches in UWR and stomping grounds in Gruul zoo so I could make this deck pretty easily.
As far as basics are concerned I'd question any list running more than forest + plains. It is pretty key to be fully operational under 3 lands with an opponent staring at his/her useless tech edge. With that in mind, I'd try and have about half my fetches get forest.
If you're increasing shock lands, go with watery grave over overgrown tomb.
Other than the unanimous "play goyfs if you can afford them" comment, anyone who knows me can tell you I fully support Smiter in the main with zero lingering souls :D, haven't played souls in months, haven't lost any games because of it, haven't missed it.
I've recently been even more impressed with snappy but still wouldn't run the full 4, it conflicts with deathright.
4 path seems high. You might be right with the meta shift, but I've been seeing a lot of scapeshift.
personal I feel like domain pump is just asking to get 2:1'd. But if its working for you, disregard.
When you're playing pay attention to how often you get flooded with that count, I'm currently playing 21 myself.
As far as the sb, pithing needle and meddling mage have been doing work for me.
Damn, this style of deck sounds really cool, but I'm really getting my butt handed to me, mostly cause of my inexperience .
Is there a beginner style list that can get me to learn more about this particular type of zoo? I'm having a hard time with some stuff, like: What is considered a good hand? Creatures and Fetches? What are some good creatures to play in this. Geist? Smiter? 1 drops such as Ape or Lynx or Lion? What about others? I've heard about counters and stuff like bant charm and elspeth, what about those? Just any general help would be appreciated.
This was my first serious modern deck. I watched a lot of streams to get in touch with the format and just played a lot. For learning, just net deck straight up. I did and modified my list over time to better fit common game scenarios. Good hands are matchup dependent, typically I want a turn two beater and then "stuff" against unknown. In the mirror, I like burn lol.
Also, I've been seeing this curious thing were people have been sbing Leyline of sanctity against this deck. It's like a mulligan that they sometimes try to mulligan into. If anyone is reading this thread for sb advice against draw go, don't bring in leyline. Either you don't have a lot of dudes and the removal is sb out in some amount, or I'm just "forced" to burn off your dudes like I wanted to anyways.
^this. I'm pretty sure standard protocol is to sb out combo I'm this match up because he can just make insane value with everything else you do.
You are definitely not casting pod at the right times. And probably not activating it correctly. The card generates insane value and is very high powered.
SSeas seems unnecessary, I've never wished I had it in any matchup. Deck already has huge game against jund though so I wouldn't use it to justify much in either direction.
I've been running pretty favorably against tron with the solo sb salt. It's a lot of counter/path ur first tron play, then tec-edge you. Maybe land a sb mindsensor (they're good against scapeshift too) or counter a land search. Salt is just a more permanent version of the last third the plan (the optional part). Usualy counter +tec-edge buys you a lot of time.
I've never had an issue that happened BECASUE I was playing fetches, but they've
1. thinned my deck
2. shuffled put something I wanted that was previously bottom by serum or sleight
3. added consistency and avoided land destruction from my opponents.
These things are all good in general, but are PARTICULARLY good in combo. if you don't have fetches that's fine, but given the option, I'd play them 100% of the time in here.
I've had the same issues with Boseju as well here and there. its very very good against twin, I've never not liked in there obviously. against UWR it gets tec edged sometime, I've been know to sb in a 2nd one there. against fact agro I definitely sb it out, because of the 2 life issue. but it still taps as a swamp under tomb of yawgmoth, so there's that. i wouldn't take it out of the deck at this point.
I haven't considered the duress effects before to seriously, but I can see how its good.
one thing I really want to fit into my sb is slaughter games.
Absolutely no one will question you about that forest.
That list is very similar to what I run
I know you are trying to up your dude count for domri, but I'd still try and stick those paths in the main for killing wurms, restos, goyf, ect... with out having some 2 for 1 happening. Unfortunately, the 12 burn spells you have in there are completely uncuttable. This just might not be a domri deck. It's pretty much the burniest zoo variant there is, and turn three is a little lat to be trying to gain advantage in a deck that kills turn 4.5 average. in playing him you decided to not commit a dude to the board turn 2 or 3 to try and rip a dude a little under half the time for turn 3 or 4. It seems really bad against tron and scapshift.
What is the baloth for? Do you just really want to get that Liliana? Costing 4 against mono red with 2 green might put you in a spot where you have to crack a few more fetches for untapped than you want, watch that and see if its an issue. You can also try rhox war monk or finks there if indeed you want something for burn. I get most of my wins playing the control roll there and snapcastering lightning helixes
You might be over sbing with the thrun, in testing try playing with out it and seeing if it tanks your win%.
LET ME KNOW HOW THE FULMINATOR MAGE WORKS OUT! I've been super curious about that dude recently but he seems too targeted at tron.
EDIT: What moxnix said lol
Might of alara is just too conditional to be consistent for me. Sure it occasional cracks for five because your opponent has no blockers and no removal, but again, that situation already looks good for you. Sure, your opponent can miss play and try to burn off your dude at the wrong time (they have to make two separate timing mistakes for that to work, similar to messing up against vines in infect) and you can pump it with might and it gets in. Might isn't a bad spell exactly, its just something I'd play after the things I'm already playing guess. I've been cutting down on the Boros charms lately, but it still gets the nod over might for me because of those games you win with out sticking a single dude and just burning face. You just can't do that with might. By all means though if your opponents aren't playing around it or its just plain working for you, go with might (I'd love to live the dream and might something and then charm it for double strike lol). You can't argue with results... too much.
The control match really depends on the variant. I've found that pithing needle goes a long way in getting value off of manlands, shuts of walkers in a pinch, and lets you actually remove a batterskull permanently if it comes to that (but having to do that really sucks). Ramping geist is obviously good, and just casting smiter causes them issues. If I'm feeling saucy I'll bring in sulfur elemental, its an additional uncounterable surprise eot. Sulfur elemental also brings all the restos into bolt/helix range. He additional kills of timely reinforcement tolkens and takes finks out of value town. But honestly, you have to be carful with the elemental. Hilariously, one makes geist an effective 8/1, but two kills him. It also puts smiters into the same bolt range 5/3's. It sorta just ups the ante all around. I've definitely given my opponents 5/2 restos, but I knew I would be able to handle it. I just have to emphasis that I DON'T really recommend the sulfur elemental, but it is something I like to do
Well this might shock you (pun intended), but with watery grave instead of overgrown tomb your Mistys still access black. Think about that. I prefer them because I used to run the overgrown tomb in that slot. I would occasionally wish it was watery grave in events, so I switched it. Haven't wanted it to be the overgrown yet. When I play, I usually cover getting a green source pretty early along with red and white. Later, when I have a fetch and am looking for blue to snapcaster and black to deathrite or get full domain, doing half and doubling up on green seems poor.
I currently run 3 snappy main and 3 mm out of the sb so I may use blue more than most. But when I ran 2 and 2 I still wanted the watery grave more than tomb.
I really prefer the smiter against anything with counter spells (you make sure it happens, all of it, and it's higher impact) or anything running liliana (the free "haste" crack back is way better than paying 2 mana for 2 power there). I used to run lingering, but I would occasionally just lose where smiter wouldn't have.
I also prefer the smiter against tron, it's more power more quickly when you're trying to race. It also doesn't get clasmed.
I know people like lingering against robots, but that matchup seems to revolve around beating the equipment and burning off a few buff guys.
I also know people like it against infect, and it's good there. However, with the 15 removal spells plus snapcasters, it is already a good matchup.
Smither has just been better against what you need it for. Being a 3 cc 4/4 it just has a higher floor than souls. It's a more aggressive card for a deck that wants to be aggressive.
I hadn't tested voice yet. No opinion on better or worse.
On might of alara: I feel like if they have no instant removal and no blockers on your 4/5 you shouldn't need much help winning. This deck really doesn't have a reach issue without it.
As far as killing bigger dudes, boros charm seems just as good and offers sweeper protection, not to mention deals respectable direct dmg without requiring something to go unblocked or in unbolted.
Straight up, I think elspeth is too expensive and makes you run more lands than you want to. If you land her though, jumping Geist is nuts.
On path: I used to run two, but kept running into wurmcoils and upped to three. There are times I wish it was a burn spell though. I'd never want to run 4.
As far as basics are concerned I'd question any list running more than forest + plains. It is pretty key to be fully operational under 3 lands with an opponent staring at his/her useless tech edge. With that in mind, I'd try and have about half my fetches get forest.
If you're increasing shock lands, go with watery grave over overgrown tomb.
Other than the unanimous "play goyfs if you can afford them" comment, anyone who knows me can tell you I fully support Smiter in the main with zero lingering souls :D, haven't played souls in months, haven't lost any games because of it, haven't missed it.
I've recently been even more impressed with snappy but still wouldn't run the full 4, it conflicts with deathright.
4 path seems high. You might be right with the meta shift, but I've been seeing a lot of scapeshift.
personal I feel like domain pump is just asking to get 2:1'd. But if its working for you, disregard.
When you're playing pay attention to how often you get flooded with that count, I'm currently playing 21 myself.
As far as the sb, pithing needle and meddling mage have been doing work for me.
This was my first serious modern deck. I watched a lot of streams to get in touch with the format and just played a lot. For learning, just net deck straight up. I did and modified my list over time to better fit common game scenarios. Good hands are matchup dependent, typically I want a turn two beater and then "stuff" against unknown. In the mirror, I like burn lol.
I'm just really bad at jokes. It's a problem.