- spooky
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Member for 13 years, 11 months, and 20 days
Last active Sat, Sep, 14 2019 16:02:38
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Mar 17, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Nemesis of MortalsI had not thought about red at all actually, but there are some interesting options there. Fling is one, but Faithless looting looks more promising. Also, there are a few cards in black that are very similar to fling.Posted in: Articles
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Mar 17, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Nemesis of MortalsGrave Troll is certainly an option, as he could both be cast as big creature, or fill up the yard for you. I'm wondering what would get replaced though?Posted in: Articles
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Mar 17, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Nemesis of MortalsIf you have the Genesis already you can certainly try it. I think the fact that he costs half the cost of the deck is a bit of a flag for me.Posted in: Articles
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Mar 17, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Nemesis of MortalsBloodrush as a graveyard filler is pretty cool. Maybe a combination of bloodrush as well as cycling?Posted in: Articles
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Mar 17, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Nemesis of MortalsCreature only decks sound really cool. I think this deck could actually be insane in such an environment, as you draw many more cards than any of your opponents will.Posted in: Articles
As far as the guttersnipe idea goes, if you wanted to work on a deck together I would love to help. Go ahead and message me some ideas (maybe a list) and I'll see what I can do. -
Mar 8, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Day of the DragonsThanks! Very happy to hear that you are enjoying my work. The next article in the series actually just came out today, you can find it on the front page.Posted in: Articles
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Mar 3, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Day of the DragonsSounds really fun for EDH! I think it could be fun in casual too, if you could find a way to find Zirilan.Posted in: Articles
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Mar 3, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Day of the DragonsThat sounds like a fun idea! I always liked the different number of routes you could take when playing dragons.Posted in: Articles
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Mar 3, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Day of the DragonsThanks! I hope I can continue to impress!Posted in: Articles
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Mar 3, 2014spooky posted a message on Casual Castle: Day of the DragonsNext article in the series should be just as exciting, and I do go into a little bit more depth about testing.Posted in: Articles
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this is the deck ive been working on. organ grinder helps if the board stalls, same as shepherd of rot. dark ritual may not actually need to be in here, but i like the idea of a 1st turn death baron. the usual discard spells are there to pick out threats and im running 4 creature removal to snipe anything the discards dont hit. a lot of people dont like putrid imp, but the truth is, the deck lacks enough 1st turn drops, plus he can get flying, and combos well with organ grinder.
also, I believe this thread is relevant to your interests.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=265635
yeah, im questioning this comment as well. if they waste a bullet on a one cost creature of yours, really thats no skin off your back. better than wasting all the mana on a countryside crusher and losing him to a swords. guide is also a nice 1st turn drop.
I couldn't agree more with everything you are saying. all these cards seem like they would be good on paper, but the truth is, there is little that can be done to improve the "staple" builds of dredge. if you dont see a card in dredge often, then there is a reason for that. the reason usually being that it is too expensive manawise, or too slow.
with 4 lotus pedal, 4 dark ritual and 4 culling the weak, the combo should be able to go off very fast, since really all you need is ad naseuam. with an initial ad, you should be able to draw into more of the combo and/or lich. though i know that is best case scenario.
gy would be delt with in the same way any other deck deals with it. the deck has the initial hand disruption to try to deal with it pre-board. post board you simply counter board some anti-GY hate. though i know exactly what you are saying here, this deck is very vulnerable to mainboard gy hate.
as far as what to test this deck against. yeah i know, zoo, merfolk and countertop goyf are usually what i test against. though this deck is not meant to be top tier (would be cool if it could), so i know how those matches would end. =P
i really wanted to include some infernal tutors but i simply could not find room. of course, thats why i posted the deck up here in MTGS. what do you think the deck could do without?
i guess its true that it doesnt "rape" combo, but slowing combo down is all affinity needs to do in order to be "back in the game" and not have a n automatic loss.
i also agree that chalice is much better, however, chalice is not run in original affinity, its run in counter-affinity.
to respond to your elfball comment, I have seen a few elfball decks and yes they did only go aggro if their spell fizzled, but with 10 elves on the field all buffed by arcdruid i dont understand how its a poor aggro build. Obviously its not nearly as powerful an aggro deck as aggro elves or goblins, but that doesnt mean it can beat face from time to time.
my main question for this thread was whether or not "combo zombies" was a viable option, and if the list I provided would work.
i guess you being a combo elves player, vs me who has only faced/seen the deck, would have a better understanding of whether or not this "combo zombies" deck would work.
its an auto loss for you because you are not running ethersworn canonist. usually you run 1 in main board and 2-3 in sideboard cuz it rapes combo, enchantress and sometimes even dredge. take out a myr enforcer for it.
Introduction
Indeed, it seems that in many ways, within legacy. this is the era of the tibal decks. But I think I speak for more than just myself when I say that we have yet to see the rise of one of the coolest tribes in magic. Legacy today seems to have a successful mono-colored tribe deck in every color except one. Black. By now you have probably guessed, Im talking about ZOMBIES! You know, undead, zulu, zeds!
After coming to this realization, being the insane zombie maniac I am, (thank you dawn of the dead, 28 weeks later, High School of the dead and the Zombie Survival Guide) I felt it was my duty to help zombies get the respect they deserve. Indeed, the reason I was placed into this not so zombie infested world of legacy was to do exactly that, INFEST IT WITH ZOMBIES!
I started not so creatively by looking at each successful mono-color tribal deck in legacy and what makes it good. Not surprisingly, they all looked pretty much the same in terms of how they win.
Gobins- Basically, this deck is a single minded aggro that tries to swarm the opponent with lethal goblin rage as early as possible while including some basic disruption in the form of lightning bolt, swords to plowshares/path to exile and lightning helix. The deck speeds goblins onto the field with goblin lackey, aether vial and siege gang commander, while it toolboxes with goblin matron and goblin ringleader. The finishing blow of this deck is usually a piledriver swinging with a bunch of his buddies.
Merfolk- The most recent successful mono-color tribal deck, worries much less about speed than their goblin counterparts and much more on disruption of their opponents strategy, before beating their face in with beefed up fish. The deck runs counterspells up the yingyang such as daze, force of will and spell snare to keep the opponent from doing anything while they fill the field with fish they pay for, or fish they don’t, if aether vial hits the field.
Eleves- there are two types of this mono-color tribal deck. The most successful (correct me if I’m wrong) seems to be a combination of both aggro elves and a combo deck known as “Elfball”. The deck mana exels with cards such as llanawar elves, birchlore rangers with nettle sentinal and preist of titania/elvish arcdruid to create insane amounts of mana, which creates insane amounts of draw when combined with glimpse of nature and regal force. The deck will win by either swarming with tons of elves beefed by arcdruid, or a lethal grapeshot/banefire fuled by the elves on the field. I find it interesting that this is the only tribal deck that does not run off of aether vial. But it also doesn’t need to.
Other decks to note are white weenie solider and affinity. (if you consider affinity a tribal deck)
The Journey
With all this in mind I started up magic workstation (thank god this program exists) and proceeded to cry as I realized that creating a mono-black tribal deck with the same speed and synergy as goblins, elves or merfolk would be insanely difficult.
Obvious initial inclusions were cards like undead war chief (though he costs 4, unlike “Goblin War Chief” who gives haste and only costs 3) “Grave Defiler” ( zombie version of goblin ringleader) and “Death Barron” (beyond the 1/1 buff, deathtouch to all your zombies is really nice).
So I had the lords, and a zombie version of ringleader. I was getting SOMEWHERE. However, I could not find cards that would help the deck match the speed of goblins or elves, such as draw power, near infinite mana excel or toolboxes. I began to think my dream of a zombie apocalypse within the world of legacy was decaying right before my eyes, and I began to cry….again.
However, after seeing one card, I quickly dried my tears and realized that I MAY just be able to pull this off. Please, welcome to the stage, Balthor the defiled. This guy made me realize something. Zombies, being mono-black, had great access to something every other mono color tribe didn’t, THE GRAVEYARD! ( I know, duh right?)
Things began to fall into place very nicely after this realization. By utilizing the very nature of zombies (they come from the graveyard) along with the multiple spells in blacks arsenal that use the graveyard, and the insane amount of “ritual” cards included, (dark ritual, cabal ritual, culling the weak) one SHOULD be able to pump out zombies just as fast as elves or goblins.
It was at this point that I had to decide how I wanted to try and build the deck in terms of which tribe would it most closely mirror. Do I want to build a zombie deck that plays like merfolk, where it pumps out beefed up zombies with vial and rez’s while it discards everything the enemy draws (similar to countering everything) or did I want something similar to combo elves, where the deck explodes and wins in one big swoop.
I have come to the conclusion that both are viable options (though I am not certain) but I don’t have the money/ability to construct either version of the deck perfectly for play testing. Because the “merfolk mirror” version would be too easy to construct (throw together a bunch of cheap beatstick zombies and zombie lords with aether vial and a bunch of discards) I am currently working on creating proxies to play test a combo version.
Card ideas and explanations
The Lords
-Lord of the Undead- The first option for a lord. Gives all zombies a 1/1 buff and allows for semi-rez. Not the best choice, but viable nonetheless.
-Undead War Chief- While he is a little more costly than his goblin counterpart, he gives a very sexy 2/1 boost as well as the whole “zombies cost less” deal. Also, his 4 cost means nothing if he is getting rezzed.
-Death Baron - Probably the best choice in terms of lords for zombies, 1/1 boost, everyone gets deathtouch and he only costs 3. Say hello 1st turn dark ritual!
-Zombie Master- Similar to lord of the undead in terms of usability. Gives all your zombies regenerate and swampwalk. This dude potentially combos with “Zombie Trailblazer” to make your zombies unblockable.
-Cemetery Reaper- Gives the 1/1 boost that all lords give, and for 3 mana can add another zombie to your horde. Taps in order to do so though, and it costs 3 mana for one dude, which creates speed problems.
The Combo Pieces
-Balthor the Defiled- Probably the most important card in the deck if you are looking to play to play out like combo elves. Excel him out with ritual cards or rez’s. Running 2 allows for you to discard one and use the other to mass rez guys like “Maggot Carrier” “Dakmor Ghoul” and “Shepherd of Rot” for mass burn before swinging or sacking them to guys like “Phyrexian Ghoul” or “Nantuko Husk” in order to fuel “Deathbringer Thoctar”, “Vengeful dead”, “Rotlung Reanimator” or multiple copies of “Bridge from Below”. Then, you can finally go one of two routes.
- Finish them off with multiple “Organ Grinders” fueled by the ““Phyrexian Ghoul” and “Putrid Imp”.
OR
- After everyone is sacked to “Phyrexian Ghoul” finish off the opponent by using the Balthor that was rezzed by the 1st Balthor to repeat the whole process. Overkill right?
-Rotlung Reanimator/ Grixis Slavedriver/ Bridge From Below- Adds overkill to the Balthor combo. After everyone is rezzed by balthor and you sack them to Phyrexian Ghoul and they get replaced by another zombie for every one of these that you have. I am certain that running 4 of these will add more than enough zombies to out swarm any goblin or merfolk army. Not to mention that each of the tokens that get generated by these guys can fuel “Shepherd of Rot”, “Deathbringer Thoctar” and “Vengeful Dead’.
-Dakmor Ghoul/Maggot Carrier- Allows for instant burn once rezzed by Balthor, as well as fueling the burn from “Shepherd of Rot” and “Deathbringer Thoctar”. Dakmor also allows lifegain, so you don’t kill yourself as fast with any of your draw engines, or Shepherd of Rot”.
-Shepherd of Rot/ Organ Grinders- More burn to ensure that your opponent dies the same turn everything is rezzed.
-Zombie Infestation- Allows you to get everything you draw into your graveyard so Balthor can rez it back, plus, you get more zombies for doing so.
-Surge of Zeal/Burst of Speed/Concordant Crossroads/Mass Hysteria- Any of these can be splashed for to ensure that you can tap “Shepherd of Rot/ Organ Grinders” the turn they come out.
The Meat
-Putrid Imp- Great one drop that can gain flying, becomes a 2/2 very fast and allows you to dump anything and everything that you need into your graveyard. Probably going to be running 4.
-Maggot Carrier- Decent one drop that burns the players for 1. When you end up rezzing a couple of these from the yard at once or twice with Balthor the damage certainly adds up. Probably a 4 of.
-Phyrexian Ghoul/Nantuko Husk- Allows for a repeat Balthor nuke, Synergizes with “Rotlung Reanimator” “Grixis Slavedriver” “Bridge From Below” and “Vengeful Dead” and can be a pretty nice beatstick too.
Toolbox/Draw
-Ad Nauseam- Probably going to be the main draw power for the deck. Splash white for angels grace or use lich to create infinite draw. Combo elves can’t do that!
-Lich- See above. Also uses Dakmor Ghoul to draw from life gain. Note that you don’t have to sack permanents when using lich and Ad Nauseam because no damage is being taken, it is instead considered “life loss”.
-Grave Defiler- Zombie version of goblin Ringleader. Nuff said.
-Sign in Blood/ Nights Whisper- Simple mono-black draw. 2 cards for 2 life.
-Infernal Contract- 3 mana and half your life gets you 4 cards, which is fine if you have recently played angels grace or have lich on the field…or if you simply don’t care, that works too.
-Infernal Tutor- Combined with “Putrid Imp” or “Zombie Infestation” allows for a “Demonic Tutor” and any card you want.
The Disruption
Duress/Thoughtsieze/Cabal Therapy- One cost hand disruption, very common, Therapy synergizes with “Rotlung Reanimator” “Grixis Slavedriver” “Bridge From Below” and “Vengeful Dead”.
-Vendetta- Single cost creature destruction, hurts you, but this doesn’t matter if you are running angels grace or Lich.
-Sinkhole- Still not sure of this card has a place in the deck, but I may as well put it out there, as it is one of the most powerful disruption cards in mono black.
-Doomblade/Diabolical Edict/Innocent Blood- Additional creature destruction, Edict and Blood can both get rid of pesky Enchantress’ and Emrakuls.
Mana Excel
-Carnival of Souls- Get rewarded for casting zombies, get rewarded for rezzing zombies, get rewarded for creating zombie tokens. Insane amounts of mana can be achieved with this little guy, especially if you rez a bunch of dooz with Balthor or use the mana obtained to fuel rituals.
-Sacrifice- Sack a Dood get mana for it. Synergizes with “Rotlung Reanimator” “Grixis Slavedriver” “Bridge From Below” and “Vengeful Dead”.
-Dark Ritual/Cabal Ritual/Culling the Weak- Obvious inclusions. Culling the weak synergizes with “Rotlung Reanimator” “Grixis Slavedriver” “Bridge From Below” and “Vengeful Dead”.
-Lotus Pedal/Chrome Mox/Mox Diamond- Though im not sure i can find a place for them, nothing new here. Lotus pedal and Mox diamond allow for splash, such as Angels grace or mass hysteria.
-Songs of the Damned- Combined with “Ad Nauseam” and “Putrid Imp” allows you to play everything you draw.
Manabase-
-Swamp- Honestly, with so many wastelands in today’s meta.
-Wasteland- Speak of the devil, really, no reason not to run this, that I can see.
-Badlands- If you splash red for haste cards like “Mass Hysteria”.
-Scrubland- If you splash white for angels grace.
-Bloodstained Mire- Allows you to search for Badlands if you splashed for haste cards.
-Marsh Flats- Allows you to search for Scrubland if you splashed for angels grace.
-Mutavault- Becomes another zombie for your army.
The Deck
Well, this is what you guys are for! I have basic ideas for the deck, but obviously im not a pro, so im asking you guys for help in actually constructing the deck properly. I understand that the deck will probably not be nearly as good as any of the tribal decks out there, but I just want zombies to be able to “catch up” a little, and get the love they deserve.
Aggro Version
Combo Version
Matchups against the other tribal decks will be provided as soon as I get some feedback from you guys. Hope you enjoyed this idea and I hope I didn’t rant too much!
i completely agree with everything you have stated in this post, except the part with bane slayer. with goblins on the rise again, as well as other aggro decks like zoo, i believe exalted angel is much better. (angel stompy was originally made to combat goblins and other aggro decks)
overall i beleive that LED'less dredge plays out much better, when replacing LED with tireless tribe, as tribe can be used to sac for dred return or cabal therapy, is a discard outlet, can block goyfs all day everyday and is not an all in card like LED is. Tribe saved my butt countless times this tourney. i main boarded iona mostly because of the meta. zoo was so rampant in this tourney that if i got out iona and named white, all removal was elminated (swords to plowshares, path to exile and oblivion ring) and i was home free.