No, that makes it so that RW Slivers cannot use it, or so random RW Gargadon-Balance decks can't use it(or various UW or GW aggro decks that might spring up)... WW will be a house either way with any type of geddon, whether or not it costs WWWW or 1WWW or whatever. It wouldn't make any sense at all to make it any worse than 2WW, just to make sure that it isn't as splashable in 3-4 color decks. Either way, I don't see it happening as a planeshifted(with the exact text) card. Maybe something like "each player chooses 2 lands" or a variant of global ruin...
@Btape: I never dismissed gigadrowse, i dismissed the storage lands because i never foudn them necesary.
grand arbiter augustin...sb rift bolt?
What he may have meant was the fact that many posters on this thread kept believing that Trickbind was the end of this deck... or that a single Rewind/Trickbind/SoD/Castigate/Persecute/HideSeek/etc screws you over. It's not that simple... Playing through all the hate(and WINNING) is proof of how strong the deck is(or, well, how often you can draw your SB cards :D)... Now, granted these aren't the best decks from the Standard portion of the event, it's merely the 8 best all-around players of the tournament using their T2 deck to compete for the title. Still, it proves the deck is solid and competitive...
Edit: here's an interesting question. Stomphowler or Harmonic Sliver? The Sliver will be able to come out easier, but the Stomphowler is a beater.
Well, the Stomphowler is better for this deck for 2 reasons.
1) You don't want to give your opponent a chance to destroy your "I win" card(Glare). Sedge Sliver and Plague Sliver both see a decent amount of play, and it would be really bad to chord out an answer for your opponent when you are way in control of the game. Granted, you're probably never going to chord for Harmonic Sliver against a deck that plays either of those other 2 slivers, but still, it's not a risk you should be willing to take.
2) Harmonic Sliver is a 1/1, and for 2 more mana you can get a 4/4 instead. This deck wins by out-racing the opponent with damage(well that's mostly GW glare, but this deck still has the same concepts...). Having a much larger creature is worth the higher mana cost, IMO.
As usual, go read the rules... Willbender has been heralded lately for being one of the only solutions to Split Second spells(thats the only reason I can think of that he even showed up as a timeshifted card), and he does a great job at that.
What I don't agree with is everyone running 1 Akroma as a finisher... My wincons are 2x Urza's Factory 2x Sacred Mesa 1x Debtor's Knell and 1x Confiscate... and that's always plenty. Remember, we have infinite counterspells to protect our win conditions anyway... and for those of you that don't run them, I advocate adding 2x Azorius Chancery to the MD. They are the perfect way for your Factories to avoid Faith's Fetters... and they also help you to secure the mana advantage in long control-on-control matchups(you know, the painful ones... like BRW Firemane and Frozen MUC...)
Here is something constructive to say...this deck will win against sooo many of the other decks out there. Agro, weenie, snow white even...but it will constantly lose to any deck that runs 12-14 counterspells, or a heavy discard deck. Just fair warning.
Defense Grid helps...just a tip for sideboard. It will slow a control deck down slightly, making them drop a creature 2-3 turns later...it's the only card I can think of that would be of any real help to you. Maybe also Phyrexian Totem. It can tap for mana, or attack for 5 damage, and it doesn't seem like you care if you sacrafice a few lands here and there.
This is where you don't understand... This deck beats U/x Control, Aggro(which is the same thing as weenie :rolleyes:), and Mid-Range Aggro-Control... But it does not beat snow white(without sideboard help, at least). You're right about discard though, it kills this deck. Too bad there aren't any competitive decks that run more than 2-5 Maindeck discard spells...
I'm sure this is a ****ing joke trying to get some erratic responses, but play against/with the deck first before you start making these outrageous claims... And sorry to burst your bubble, but you have the same possibility of getting that turn-1 Leyline/Hunted combo as I do of getting a turn-1 dragonstorm... And, oh wait, one of those combos actually kills the opponent.
And by the way, Defense Grid is useless against U control... Ever heard of Spell Snare? Gigadrowse is your best bet... all you need to do in games 2-3 against U control decks is side in Dizzy Spells so you have a higher Gigadrowse count in comparision to their Rewinds/Trickbinds... or you could just transform to Vore.
Worship is not played, and wipe away is for paladins/repeal, as squirel said. And quicken is just terrible...there's no reason for landkill when you can gigadrowse for less to tap all their lands. And rewind KILLS volcanic awakening.
Wait, what?? Rewind kills gigadrowse, not Volcanic Awakening... thus disproving your point. Anyway, the thing is, gigadrowse doesn't require a lot of other spells to fall in place first(IOW: it doesn't rely on storm), it works all by itself to tap the control player out before you combo off(except for rewind, obv). Sure VA is nice when you can get it to go off on turn 4 along with your lotus bloom and 1-2 draw spells/rituals, but that will likely not happen very often... It'd be better to stick to the 'Vore plan if you intend on transforming in games 2-3.
Um, @ the weird decklist guy: Wildfire kind of screws you, cuz with no land, you can't cast anything...just a thought...and this is also the "Dragonstorm" thread.
Exactly... As I posted earlier, the Magnivores seem much better fit for the maindeck than the Wildfires... as drawing a Vore doesn't screw your ability to combo off as much as Wildfiring would. And who the hell is gonna figure out your G2 strategy if you drop a semi-huge vore against them in game 1? I'd have to say either the Vores or the 'Rangs are better suited for the MD... most definately not a card that totally ****s you(Wildfire) when you're only out is to combo off.
And BTW, what's the point of altering the MD(which is why your deck is so good in the first place) just to support the SB in some matches... I think it's just a better idea not to include Wildfires at all(since your aggro matchups are sooo good when you just stick to comboing off, and it almost never resolves against control anyway) and stick to the regular MD and the 4x Stone Rain 4x Cyroclasm 4x Boomerang 3x Magnivore SB... I'll give it a try and post some results in a couple days.
I actually think a better deck to transform into would be Reanimator... A few people I playtest with regularly developed a URb Reanimator list that transforms into Dragonstorm... It could be the opposite of that. I'm pretty sure there was a Japanese version created somewhere, but I don't remember where I encountered it... just an idea.
Has anyone used Magus of the scroll yet? i was split between solifuge and him, both are very solid but nothing says aggro to me better than the spider
He's pretty solid in some versions of Boros, but definately not worth it for this deck. Especially since you have Bob working overtime to ensure that you're not near hellbent...
I must be missing something. How does Giadrowse help against Ivory Mask and Persecute again?
Well, I was talking about Solar Pox's tendency to sideboard in waaaaay too many cards for this matchup... And I was being sarcastic at the same time. Gigadrowse owns them if you get an early combo opportunity... otherwise, it's usually hopeless because of all the combo hate they SB in.
But who sides in against someone's sideboard? That's that most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.
Well actually, it wins you games... I see you've never done it before, so I don't expect you to have any experience in that area.
And i'm not sure if you're aware of Affinity in the Extended format, but their SB is extremely dependant on other deck's sideboards. Usually the first card chosen for the SB is 4x darkblast(for Kataki), and isn't it obvious why? They lose if certain threats aren't dealt with quickly.
Anyway... Playing Dragonstorm, how the hell would you not expect to see Trickbind from EVERY SINGLE U deck you play against? So, instead of just bending over and praying for the best, why don't you do something about it? Wouldn't that be the best solution? Of course it would. That's called reactive sideboarding... and it doesn't always work, but many times it will. And besides, doesn't Snow White have *maindeck* Ivory Masks anyway??? Why would they take them out if they have the possibility of seeing discard in game 2? And ESPECIALLY if they fear Persecute as badly as it seems...
@ Raging ascetic: I think the point is to trickbind their first revealing w/ martyr then persecute then combo.
And my point is, that will hardly EVER happen... And by the time it does, your opponent will surely have drawn an answer to your discard and/or just been able to gain more life. To require Persecute + Trickbind(on turn 2) + Combo is a lot to ask for a combo deck that can't really afford to take pieces out just to splash a BB card. And this doesn't even take into consideration whether or not the Snow White player is able to drop an Ivory Mask, which would render your solution completely useless...
Here's a good one for all you who love Ignorant Bliss so much, Trickbind stops your hand from ever coming back. So watch what you side that in against.
Here's a good one for those decks that side in 681cardsforonematchup. Gigadrowse owns your ass. Period.
WIN ANY (non-FNM) TOURNAMENT with the deck. (win... not T8... win)
then you can call it teir 1... until then, its just rogue.
We'll just have to wait and see once Nats/States comes around... oh wait, the T2 format will be totally different by then. I guess local cash tournies(or MTGO :D) will be the only way this deck proves itself...
Actually I have seen that Repeal and Rune Snag are the MVPs against Gruul... they usually cannot kill you before you reach your turn 5-6 Wildfire, and Rune Snag slows the bleeding from Solifuges and Moldervine Cloaks/Chars. It's not that bad a matchup for me, but then again I MD 3x Sulfurous Blast... so I dunno.
What he may have meant was the fact that many posters on this thread kept believing that Trickbind was the end of this deck... or that a single Rewind/Trickbind/SoD/Castigate/Persecute/HideSeek/etc screws you over. It's not that simple... Playing through all the hate(and WINNING) is proof of how strong the deck is(or, well, how often you can draw your SB cards :D)... Now, granted these aren't the best decks from the Standard portion of the event, it's merely the 8 best all-around players of the tournament using their T2 deck to compete for the title.
Well, the Stomphowler is better for this deck for 2 reasons.
1) You don't want to give your opponent a chance to destroy your "I win" card(Glare). Sedge Sliver and Plague Sliver both see a decent amount of play, and it would be really bad to chord out an answer for your opponent when you are way in control of the game. Granted, you're probably never going to chord for Harmonic Sliver against a deck that plays either of those other 2 slivers, but still, it's not a risk you should be willing to take.
2) Harmonic Sliver is a 1/1, and for 2 more mana you can get a 4/4 instead. This deck wins by out-racing the opponent with damage(well that's mostly GW glare, but this deck still has the same concepts...). Having a much larger creature is worth the higher mana cost, IMO.
What I don't agree with is everyone running 1 Akroma as a finisher... My wincons are 2x Urza's Factory 2x Sacred Mesa 1x Debtor's Knell and 1x Confiscate... and that's always plenty. Remember, we have infinite counterspells to protect our win conditions anyway... and for those of you that don't run them, I advocate adding 2x Azorius Chancery to the MD. They are the perfect way for your Factories to avoid Faith's Fetters... and they also help you to secure the mana advantage in long control-on-control matchups(you know, the painful ones... like BRW Firemane and Frozen MUC...)
This is where you don't understand... This deck beats U/x Control, Aggro(which is the same thing as weenie :rolleyes:), and Mid-Range Aggro-Control... But it does not beat snow white(without sideboard help, at least). You're right about discard though, it kills this deck. Too bad there aren't any competitive decks that run more than 2-5 Maindeck discard spells...
I'm sure this is a ****ing joke trying to get some erratic responses, but play against/with the deck first before you start making these outrageous claims... And sorry to burst your bubble, but you have the same possibility of getting that turn-1 Leyline/Hunted combo as I do of getting a turn-1 dragonstorm... And, oh wait, one of those combos actually kills the opponent.
And by the way, Defense Grid is useless against U control... Ever heard of Spell Snare? Gigadrowse is your best bet... all you need to do in games 2-3 against U control decks is side in Dizzy Spells so you have a higher Gigadrowse count in comparision to their Rewinds/Trickbinds... or you could just transform to Vore.
Wait, what?? Rewind kills gigadrowse, not Volcanic Awakening... thus disproving your point. Anyway, the thing is, gigadrowse doesn't require a lot of other spells to fall in place first(IOW: it doesn't rely on storm), it works all by itself to tap the control player out before you combo off(except for rewind, obv). Sure VA is nice when you can get it to go off on turn 4 along with your lotus bloom and 1-2 draw spells/rituals, but that will likely not happen very often... It'd be better to stick to the 'Vore plan if you intend on transforming in games 2-3.
Exactly... As I posted earlier, the Magnivores seem much better fit for the maindeck than the Wildfires... as drawing a Vore doesn't screw your ability to combo off as much as Wildfiring would. And who the hell is gonna figure out your G2 strategy if you drop a semi-huge vore against them in game 1? I'd have to say either the Vores or the 'Rangs are better suited for the MD... most definately not a card that totally ****s you(Wildfire) when you're only out is to combo off.
And BTW, what's the point of altering the MD(which is why your deck is so good in the first place) just to support the SB in some matches... I think it's just a better idea not to include Wildfires at all(since your aggro matchups are sooo good when you just stick to comboing off, and it almost never resolves against control anyway) and stick to the regular MD and the 4x Stone Rain 4x Cyroclasm 4x Boomerang 3x Magnivore SB... I'll give it a try and post some results in a couple days.
He's pretty solid in some versions of Boros, but definately not worth it for this deck. Especially since you have Bob working overtime to ensure that you're not near hellbent...
Well, I was talking about Solar Pox's tendency to sideboard in waaaaay too many cards for this matchup... And I was being sarcastic at the same time.
Well actually, it wins you games... I see you've never done it before, so I don't expect you to have any experience in that area.
And i'm not sure if you're aware of Affinity in the Extended format, but their SB is extremely dependant on other deck's sideboards. Usually the first card chosen for the SB is 4x darkblast(for Kataki), and isn't it obvious why? They lose if certain threats aren't dealt with quickly.
Anyway... Playing Dragonstorm, how the hell would you not expect to see Trickbind from EVERY SINGLE U deck you play against? So, instead of just bending over and praying for the best, why don't you do something about it? Wouldn't that be the best solution? Of course it would. That's called reactive sideboarding... and it doesn't always work, but many times it will. And besides, doesn't Snow White have *maindeck* Ivory Masks anyway??? Why would they take them out if they have the possibility of seeing discard in game 2? And ESPECIALLY if they fear Persecute as badly as it seems...
And my point is, that will hardly EVER happen... And by the time it does, your opponent will surely have drawn an answer to your discard and/or just been able to gain more life. To require Persecute + Trickbind(on turn 2) + Combo is a lot to ask for a combo deck that can't really afford to take pieces out just to splash a BB card. And this doesn't even take into consideration whether or not the Snow White player is able to drop an Ivory Mask, which would render your solution completely useless...
Here's a good one for those decks that side in 681 cards for one matchup. Gigadrowse owns your ass. Period.
We'll just have to wait and see once Nats/States comes around... oh wait, the T2 format will be totally different by then.