Hangarback Walker: absolutely absurd card for the deck. It's mostly going to be played on turn 2 that will shore up the deck's early game since this deck does nothing except ramp until turn 6. It's very powerful in the late game with +1/+1 counters pump spells as well. Insane card that translates to EDH from Standard. One of the best cards for the deck.
Managorger Hydra: Another twist on Chasm Skulker and Lorescale Coatl and is a very nice addition that plays better in multiplayer games. I expect this card to perform very well and remain a core card of the deck.
Kiora, Master of the Depths: Really unsure about this one. It serves as a value engine role that ensures hitting land drops each turn which is certainly welcome but is likely worse than Kiora 1.0 in this deck.
As excited as I was to crack a foil fetch, it's not a blue fetch, and with Expeditions out now, I just don't see any long-term growth for it. People seem to rather have Judge promos -> ONS pack foils -> Expeditions -> KTK pack foils.
If you need the credit, $40 isn't bad. Foil KTK fetches are probably super longterm holds right now. They haven't moved at all since release.
And now he's at $30. We can thank SCG for pushing Jeskai Black so hard in their streams.
Den Protector is now $17 as well. It's also worth noting that foil and promo Den Protectors are worth significantly more than the nonfoil copies. Even after the first spike, foils were only like $2-3 above the nonfoil copies. Also Dromoka's Command is gaining back ground after the reprint in the clash pack and is $7 now.
There were a lot of copies of Jeskai Black in the top 8/16 from this past weekend.
pile b
marchesa the blood rose foil
brago king eternal
ulamog tbe ceaseless wonder
some two buck cheapo
I like Pile A a bit more here. Foil Marchesa's price will very slowly tick up but its price hinges on the fact that it will not be reprinted as a foil for a Commander product. Won't be this upcoming set but if I had a foil Marchesa and didn't have a Commander deck around her then I will always be looking out each time a Commander product comes out. I feel like that will destroy its price. JTMS recently got reprinted and that was for a specialty product commemorating 20 years of Magic. I don't think he will get reprinted anytime soon. I think Pile A is safer overall.
I no longer play this deck anymore. If you want something changed to the first post please let me know. Just reply to me or send me a PM. I know the original post is outdated but I'm not sure how much this deck has changed to the meta since I left it several months back. So I'm not the most qualified person to edit it.
For those who play See the Unwritten, Greenwarden certainly plays well with it.
I had kind of written off see the unwritten, maybe I will bench tooth and nail for a while and give it a ride.
Same here, I thought Tooth and Nail was vastly superior to See the Unwritten. I know it costs a bit more but I figured if you want a big effect that puts creatures directly into play, Tooth and Nail was the way to go because it doesn't have a drawback. Might try See the Unwritten just because I have one laying around.
Thanks for your thoughts. The thing that worries me is that while a different card entirely Kiora 1.0 is still a $20 foil even after the Duel Deck printing. I might pull the trigger on a promo if I see one a few dollars closer to $25 since I don't want to wait a few months.
I like the new promo system since there's a chance to get a decent promo instead of just the bulk promos in pre-Khans. Only problem is that it devalues pack foils. But I guess that's a "being able to have your cake, and eat it too" argument.
Kiora 1.0 is a decent planeswalker, and there's really a floor on pack foil planeswalkers from small, incredibly unpopular sets. The pack art is pretty phenomenal, too. Bottom line: the duel deck foil is competing with the nonfoil pack version. The pack foil is the "best" version, and people who want the "best" version will gravitate towards it.
Kiora 2.0 also seems decent, but will be opened in far, FAR greater numbers. The promo is (currently) being seen as a "lesser" version. This article by Chas Andres is very helpful for comparing promo vs pack foil.
Last year's KTK planeswalkers are both under $20 for foils (Sarkhan is under $10). That's actually really low for strong, potentially-modern-in-the-case-of-Sorin-playable planeswalkers, the game's flagship card type and main characters. The set was opened a ton by people looking to crack fetches, so there's a glut. BFZ will be opened a ton by people hoping to ... crack fetches. So, I can't see Kiora or Gideon or even Ob Nixilis having any sort of staying power.
Thanks for linking the article, I've actually had that question for some time. Guess I'll buy a pack foil Kiora when the time comes. I always thought the prerelease foil was equal in value to the pack foil. I mean the foiling on the promo isn't any different than a pack foil. I thought the stamp might add value to some people.
How long do I have to wait to pick up a foil or promo Kiora, Master of the Depths for $20-25? Prerelease promo is going for $30 while pack foils are going for $35. Should I just pick up the promo now?
I'll preface this by saying that the whole promo thing is pretty messed up. It was hard to figure out the trajectory on the promos with KTK block, and now EVERY rare and mythic has a promo version? Yeesh. I think that the trend will continue, though - the promo will be slightly less than the pack foil for most cards.
I don't think that Kiora can sustain $35. I think that with the massive openings predicted for the set, and her less-than-immediately-dominant role, she'll probably drop closer to $25 by the end of the year.
Just my guess, though.
Thanks for your thoughts. The thing that worries me is that while a different card entirely Kiora 1.0 is still a $20 foil even after the Duel Deck printing. I might pull the trigger on a promo if I see one a few dollars closer to $25 since I don't want to wait a few months.
I like the new promo system since there's a chance to get a decent promo instead of just the bulk promos in pre-Khans. Only problem is that it devalues pack foils. But I guess that's a "being able to have your cake, and eat it too" argument.
How long do I have to wait to pick up a foil or promo Kiora, Master of the Depths for $20-25? Prerelease promo is going for $30 while pack foils are going for $35. Should I just pick up the promo now?
I tried Endless One yesterday and it was mediocre at best. My cube is unpowered as well and I can attest this card is really unexciting.
Let me put it this way, this card is on the same power level of people playing Lore Seeker or Cogwork Librarian as the last card in their deck to fill their curve or if they lack their last playable. No one ever wants to and it's usually a last resort unless they have some artifact synergy. However, those Conspiracy Artifact creatures are exciting to have in the draft portion, this is not. I took this mid pack 1 over another card for my deck just to see how it was and I'm glad I did because I immediately took the card out after the draft was finished. The only 2 upsides are it being colorless and vanilla creature that can be played on any turn that served as the bear minimum in terms of stats means that's its ceiling will never be high.
This card was really unexciting and I am the one that's currently jamming Eldrazi from this set to test that are at least serviceable in an archetype. This one unfortunately was a quick and easy cut.
I kinda like Void Winnower and might even put it into one of my temporary test slots. Costing 9 means it is purely for super ramp and cheating decks though. Wish it would cost 7 (and be just 9/7 or so). Then it would have a shot to be played in some other decks, too.
I am not sure how it is in other cubes, but my cube has well enough colorless 6-drops, while it could stand another colorless 5-drop or two. Therefore, Oblivion Sower won't find a place. That slot is just too crowded already.
The lack of cubable Eldrazi irks me so much, I might even test out Endless One after all. That card is the epitome of mediocre though and I can't see it making many maindecks.
I might try Void Winnower as just a fun card. I don't expect to be amazing but at this point it's better than a lot of the other Eldrazi from this set. I think it's tough evaluating in a vacuum because its effectiveness depends on what your opponent drafted.
I did a draft last night and was not impressed with Endless One at all. It's literally the 40th card and you're right that it's the face of mediocre. It really needed another ability on it otherwise it will always be a mediocre curve filler. Easy cut from my cube.
1x Bane of Progress
1x Chasm Skulker
1x Courser of Kruphix
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Den Protector
1x Draining Whelk
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fathom Mage
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Forgotten Ancient
1x Gilder Bairn
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Hangarback Walker
1x Kalonian Hydra
1x Kiora's Follower
1x Kruphix, God of Horizons
1x Lifeblood Hydra
1x Lorescale Coatl
1x Managorger Hydra
1x Master Biomancer
1x Mystic Snake
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Progenitor Mimic
1x Prophet of Kruphix
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Sage of Fables
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Snapcaster Mage
1x Sphinx of Magosi
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Thassa, God of the Sea
1x Trygon Predator
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Kiora, Master of the Depths
1x Kiora, the Crashing Wave
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
Instant (15):
1x Beast Within
1x Chord of Calling
1x Counterspell
1x Cryptic Command
1x Cyclonic Rift
1x Evacuation
1x Familiar's Ruse
1x Inspiring Call
1x Pact of Negation
1x Plasm Capture
1x Simic Charm
1x Spell Crumple
1x Strength of the Tajuru
1x Swan Song
1x Voidslime
Sorcery (5):
1x Cultivate
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Sunbringer's Touch
1x Urban Evolution
Artifact (2):
1x Crystal Shard
1x Sensei's Divining Top
Enchantment (2):
1x Doubling Season
1x Exploration
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Command Tower
1x Evolving Wilds
1x Flooded Grove
1x Flooded Strand
6x Forest
1x Hinterland Harbor
8x Island
1x Llanowar Reborn
1x Lumbering Falls
1x Mosswort Bridge
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
1x Reflecting Pool
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Riptide Laboratory
1x Simic Guildgate
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Temple of Mystery
1x Thornwood Falls
1x Vesuva
1x Vivid Creek
1x Vivid Grove
1x Yavimaya Coast
Notable Adds:
Hangarback Walker: absolutely absurd card for the deck. It's mostly going to be played on turn 2 that will shore up the deck's early game since this deck does nothing except ramp until turn 6. It's very powerful in the late game with +1/+1 counters pump spells as well. Insane card that translates to EDH from Standard. One of the best cards for the deck.
Managorger Hydra: Another twist on Chasm Skulker and Lorescale Coatl and is a very nice addition that plays better in multiplayer games. I expect this card to perform very well and remain a core card of the deck.
Kiora, Master of the Depths: Really unsure about this one. It serves as a value engine role that ensures hitting land drops each turn which is certainly welcome but is likely worse than Kiora 1.0 in this deck.
Ugin, the Spirit Dragon: In here as a second sweeper and his ultimate works pretty well with the deck. It's been fine but might be replaced with Kozilek, Butcher of Truth.
If you need the credit, $40 isn't bad. Foil KTK fetches are probably super longterm holds right now. They haven't moved at all since release.
Den Protector is now $17 as well. It's also worth noting that foil and promo Den Protectors are worth significantly more than the nonfoil copies. Even after the first spike, foils were only like $2-3 above the nonfoil copies. Also Dromoka's Command is gaining back ground after the reprint in the clash pack and is $7 now.
There were a lot of copies of Jeskai Black in the top 8/16 from this past weekend.
I like Pile A a bit more here. Foil Marchesa's price will very slowly tick up but its price hinges on the fact that it will not be reprinted as a foil for a Commander product. Won't be this upcoming set but if I had a foil Marchesa and didn't have a Commander deck around her then I will always be looking out each time a Commander product comes out. I feel like that will destroy its price. JTMS recently got reprinted and that was for a specialty product commemorating 20 years of Magic. I don't think he will get reprinted anytime soon. I think Pile A is safer overall.
I no longer play this deck anymore. If you want something changed to the first post please let me know. Just reply to me or send me a PM. I know the original post is outdated but I'm not sure how much this deck has changed to the meta since I left it several months back. So I'm not the most qualified person to edit it.
Pile A
Undergrowth Champion
Wingmate Roc
2 Beastcaller Savant
Woodland Wanderer
2 Planar Outburst
Canopy Vista
Pile B
Bloodstained Mire (KTK)
Flooded Strand (KTK)
Same here, I thought Tooth and Nail was vastly superior to See the Unwritten. I know it costs a bit more but I figured if you want a big effect that puts creatures directly into play, Tooth and Nail was the way to go because it doesn't have a drawback. Might try See the Unwritten just because I have one laying around.
Thanks for linking the article, I've actually had that question for some time. Guess I'll buy a pack foil Kiora when the time comes. I always thought the prerelease foil was equal in value to the pack foil. I mean the foiling on the promo isn't any different than a pack foil. I thought the stamp might add value to some people.
Thanks for your thoughts. The thing that worries me is that while a different card entirely Kiora 1.0 is still a $20 foil even after the Duel Deck printing. I might pull the trigger on a promo if I see one a few dollars closer to $25 since I don't want to wait a few months.
I like the new promo system since there's a chance to get a decent promo instead of just the bulk promos in pre-Khans. Only problem is that it devalues pack foils. But I guess that's a "being able to have your cake, and eat it too" argument.
Let me put it this way, this card is on the same power level of people playing Lore Seeker or Cogwork Librarian as the last card in their deck to fill their curve or if they lack their last playable. No one ever wants to and it's usually a last resort unless they have some artifact synergy. However, those Conspiracy Artifact creatures are exciting to have in the draft portion, this is not. I took this mid pack 1 over another card for my deck just to see how it was and I'm glad I did because I immediately took the card out after the draft was finished. The only 2 upsides are it being colorless and vanilla creature that can be played on any turn that served as the bear minimum in terms of stats means that's its ceiling will never be high.
This card was really unexciting and I am the one that's currently jamming Eldrazi from this set to test that are at least serviceable in an archetype. This one unfortunately was a quick and easy cut.
I might try Void Winnower as just a fun card. I don't expect to be amazing but at this point it's better than a lot of the other Eldrazi from this set. I think it's tough evaluating in a vacuum because its effectiveness depends on what your opponent drafted.
I did a draft last night and was not impressed with Endless One at all. It's literally the 40th card and you're right that it's the face of mediocre. It really needed another ability on it otherwise it will always be a mediocre curve filler. Easy cut from my cube.