Hand destruction and lilly. They can get mana screwed sometimes on just a inquistion or 2. A lot of them only run 18 land now. Assuming this is the same deck we're talking about. Land destruction is always good if it is included but a combination of both is going to be best I imagine.
You could even add Mirror Entity to go infinite with if you use reveillark as well. Likewise, you could use Vensor the planeswalker for his blink effect as well.
Jund is a midrange deck, not aggro. This means barring a nut draw, you're never going to ever race anyone. Against Tron, you want to board in extra hand destruction to get their Thirst for Knowledge, Gifts Ungiven, Counterspells, and Removal. You also want artifact destruction to get their Signets, and their Expedition Maps if they're careless. Also, if you suspect your opponent is on the Unburial Rites/Iona plan, some sort of Grafdigger's Cage/Nihil Spellbomb/Jund Charm effect to prevent it.
Exactly. I would like to throw in land destruction too though. Melting a tron peice will surely buy some time. Or just axing their colored lands and hosing them is possible.
Keep in mind what you can cascade into. Playing a BBE into a clear field is usually a bad idea. As is if you have an active lilly. Keep this in mind when running BBE out, you may whiff. Keep in mind casting off cascade is a may ability not manditory. So BBE'ing into another lilly can be chosen to be put on the bottom and not played and blown up both.
Your board is pretty good.
Affinity: Good but I would cut the other bobs for baloths. You'll need the lifegain. I'm not a fan of losing life against the fastest aggro deck.
Twin: Good but you'll want that duress in your board, I promise. -1 bolt for it since exarch has a 4 butt and it can also be spellkited.
Mirror: I would add the additional Jund Charm. G Lavamancer, bob, and BBE are important cards in the mirror and this kills all of them. Plus wins the goyf war. I would keep lilly in against the mirror. Letting them dictate your hand and get free edicts will suck. I personally ditch my hand disruption is the mirror. -2 TS -3 Inquistion, imo.
Boros/Burn: Looks good.
Pod: -3 finks looks right and maybe some inquisitions since they dont hit pod and its replacement (grudge) kills it. That's a tough call but I would -4 inq for the rest of your board plus the duress. It hits the important noncreature cards like: Pod and cord of calling.
On a side note, I find your lack of graveyard hate disturbing. Be prepared to see GY based decks. Keep that in mind if you play this board.
I don't think that work boss. But you are right about jund charm. It's a great tool. I was wondering though what would be a good replacement for Tamo?
Correct. Cascading into Jund Charm does not pump BBE. The cascade resolves first before the BBE ever hits play so it can't target him because he's on the stack at the time. You can however, "pyroclasm" the board with JC and BBE will live through it.
Tarmo can't be replaced realistically but if I had to I would pick Strangleroot Geist.
Define 'grief' cards, please? Or define what it means for a card to 'grief'?
I see 'griefing' in Magic as when playing Casual EDH, playing something like Winterorb?
I fail to see how Bitterblossom 'griefs'. Also please don't compare the powerlevel of Jitte to that of Bitterblossom; they're on completely different levels.
Griefing cards = Cards that would generally cause an upset reaction from others to them being played. Usually ending in the griefer winning because of their power level.
Winterorb in edh is infact a griefing card in my book. How many people here can say people don't complain about spells like armaggedon?
Fail to see? Have you ever been on the other side of a fairy player who casts a turn two bitterblossom? WoTC specifically printed hate for this card. That by itself is a pretty good indicator that it was a mistake for them to print bitterblossom. On the other hand, I do consider Jitte an overall more powerful card than bitterblossom. However, both have the same criteria for cards that grief. People are always unhappy to see them, both can be cast early and have huge effects, and if left unchecked both can win the game all by themselves. The very definition that I gave.
Titan Ramp Run w/Wildfire pokes up it's ugly head. Delverstorm moves up another 2 spots. My latest article released.
Nice list but the Lilburn Ga. results are a bit wrong. It was infact Jund vs Jund in the finals but the quarters was Jund vs storm and jund vs affinity. Guess Trevor was to busy playing board games to punch things in correctly.
First of all, you really need to start working on a sideboard. But definitely more Lilly's. The worst that can happen when cascade into a lilly when you have another one on the field is you send the one you cascaded into to the bottom of your library (cascading says 'you may play it'), and you have a less than optimal cascade. Either way, if you have a lilly on the field, you're probably in good shape anyway. The only other suggestions I'd make is possibly replacing the blightnings with jund charms, but that's kinda up to you.
And yes, this deck is probably the most expensive modern deck right now thanks to goyf.
Also, a question to everybody: should we really be using this much fast land? I know pretty much all the jund decks that placed at any event were using 7-8 fast lands, and it does make sense: most of the deck is 3 cost so it hardly matters after your 3rd land drop, but when I play with them, I find sometimes they make a real ****ty late game top deck when I needed that one extra land to come into play untapped so I could play BBE or two lower cmc spells. What do you guys think?
I agree. I run 4 Cliffs and thats it. Copperline is fine but I don't think we need them. Ravine and a singleton stomping grounds is all the R/G land i need.
... what? You act like that's the only thing that would happen to the format;
unban Bitterblossom => Fae is the best deck in the format. Nothing else. (This is also implying Fae would stop wanting to be MonoU or go from being UR to UB); I honestly don't think Bitterblossom would strengthen its weakest matchups, but that's just me.
Bitterblossom opens up a slew of other deckbuilding options; like GB rock / UB tokens could be stronger, etc.
The point is, why is a card that isn't format warping, and simply just a 'strong card' Banned? I honestly don't think there's a reason for it aside from, "HOLY MOTHER OF GOD FAE WAS AWESOME IN EXTENDED WE BETTER BAN ONE OF ITS CARDS THAT LOOKS LIKE AN ENABLER." But, I think it's dumb to cross examine cards between formats.
For the same reason Jitte is banned. Not just because they are super powerful but because they are griefing cards. Powerful cards that grief need to be where these are, on the ban list. Best decision Wizards has made in a while.
Has anyone else had issues with Blood Moon out of the sideboards of Affinity decks? I'm really tempted to run a few more basics rather than twilight mires. Maybe a split of 2 swamp 2 forest and only one mire instead of 2/1/2.
A bit but people are starting to stear away from it in my area cause it so narrow and doesn't affect the board. I run 4 basics, 2 forest and swamps, plus 4 catacombs and it has been awesome. I think the best thing to do is keep in mind that any red deck can board in blood moon against you. So I just assume my opponent has it everytime. Aggresively fetching basics as often as you can is what I like to do. Hand distruction is another good strategy as it can strip it out of their hand before they have a chance to play it. I've actually inquistioned a plating then left them blood moon because i had a basic forest and swamp in play and let them waste an entire turn playing bloodmoon to fix my manabase and give me red mana.
Blightning was really underwhelming all day and I will probably remove it all together from the 75. It was the first thing I sided out in most cases and most of the time I cast it, they had 3-4 cards in hand or had a grip of Obstinate Baloths post-board. I may replace it with Huntmaster or some combination of additional removal/seals.
Blightning is underwhelming to me too. I have cut it from my 75 as well. Targeted hand disruption is the way to go. If you want discard play 4 inquisitions and a couple of thoughtseizes. I play 4 Inqs and 1 TS main, plus 4lillys. Removal is cool but I am not a supporter of Huntmaster. He has been 100% weak sauce everytime he's been in play for me or any other person I've seen. If you want a 4 drop play thrun. Lifegain play baloth.
Thorn of Amethyst in the board was pretty useless as I didn't play burn, twin or storm.
I'm starting to learn towards this feeling on thorm of amethyst as well. Its so narrow of a card and a lot of storm players are either blindly boarding in ancient grudge for thorn and relic or they're transforming into a splinter twin deck. I may add the 4th thoughtsieze to my board. I have the 2nd and third there now. I saw a few list playing 1-2 Night of Soul's Betrayal as a hoser. It answers a lot of cards. It makes splinter twin cry as they can't win with splinter twin or kiki. Lingering Souls is seeing a lot of play with squadren hawks in the life gain deck and blue based control decks that run swords and it locks them out. The white weenie decks fold to it and pod can't combo off with it in play and they board out most or all of their naturalize effects against jund. So I think my 2 thorns may be a 4th thoughtsieze and a miser Night of Soul's Betrayal.
Found myself bringing in 2 Baloths from the side for additional life gain in the aggro matchups. They were ok I guess but I'm not sure if I would rather have something else.
I like them. Life gain on a thick body is stiff for them to deal with. Not to mention how sick he is against opposing raven's crimes and lillys. Just a good effecient card.
Elspeth, Knight Errant: Not much we can do about her in most builds...not sure if there is a SB card with will address this.
Dredge: whether it's Raven's Crime, Loam, Burning Vengeance or Gravecrawler, this deck makes our removal pretty ineffective and is really resilient. If it becomes popular, I'll have to add some grafdiggers cage in the board
Tron: I had nothing to handle Tron other than seal of doom for emrakul. Assembling tron seemed way too easy for either U/W or Mono G. No answer here unless we play some kind of land destruction.
Maelstrom pulse answers elspeth. For sb, I do think pithing needle is legal and handles all copies of here in one go. There's also good ol' fashion damage.
You mean aggro loam? The first game is rough but I think its not to bad but favors them unless you're packing maindeck hate. After board it is better. You should have some from of graveyard hate already in your board. Cage is not very good against them, imo. They run grudge and can just draw or dredge into it before you find one and it blanks a 2nd copy if you draw it. Drawing two cards to beat their one is not a good idea, imo. Play relic or spellbomb. Nuc'ing their yard in response to a grudge is way better, imo. It leaves them with nothing but the grudge and they have to recur from scratch. Relic also draws a card and if unanswered can beat them by itself from its tap ability.
Tron is a MU I have had no trouble with but others seem to. Board into your hand destruction, all jund lists should have more in the board. Board grudge if you have it. Axing an expedetion map on turn 2, a signet, or even a wurmcoil is awesome. Lilly is your best card against them. They have a hard time answering it and they often times just fold to it. LD is always a good choice for them but most of us aren't running any. I personally run 2 ghost quarters in my list and I will never go back. I don't board anymore LD but I wouldn't shun you if you did. Molten rain is good as it gets ANY land not just nonbasics, and it deals damage. Plus it can be cascaded into without the awkward ruinblaster needing an addition red mana to kick or fluminator to sac for no damage. Btw: got your decklist for us to see?
You will not top 8 a ptq with standard jund without at least 3 liliana's in your deck. If you don't want to buy liliana's you're better off playing a different deck.
The same could be said about Dark Confidant and goyf. Jund is an expensive deck to build. I would advise newcomers or peeps low on cash to not build it. But I do agree. Lilly is a must, imo.
I tried using 4 in my deck, and I just don't like having that many because I often found myself having one sitting useless, or cascading it and having to not cast it because I already had one on the field. I think it comes down to preference though, either way, you're going to want to run at least 3, because she's pretty amazing in this deck.
Also, does anyone know any good cards against infect?
Ive been running 3 huntmaster in my jund list and ive not been let down yet even if they remove him right after he comes down u just 2-1 them really u got 2 life and a token out of it it makes players think more and if u already ripped there hand apart and they are in top deck mode he just wins in short order so i think he deserves mentioning he might not be for everyone but he deff has a home in jund
I've not tried Huntmaster to be fair but I'd definitely much rather have Thrun in an aggro MU. While Thrun may not be able to gain you any life back, he's immune to most spot removal and can block big threats all day long, much better than Huntmaster, in theory.
This. 100% agree. Thrun is just better than him in almost every aspect. The only other 4 drop there is, is BBE. Are he isn't replacing him either.
Vesuvan Shapeshifter
Aven Riftwatcher
Reveillark
Wall of Omens
Avalanche Riders
Snapcaster Mage
You could even add Mirror Entity to go infinite with if you use reveillark as well. Likewise, you could use Vensor the planeswalker for his blink effect as well.
Exactly. I would like to throw in land destruction too though. Melting a tron peice will surely buy some time. Or just axing their colored lands and hosing them is possible.
Your board is pretty good.
Affinity: Good but I would cut the other bobs for baloths. You'll need the lifegain. I'm not a fan of losing life against the fastest aggro deck.
Twin: Good but you'll want that duress in your board, I promise. -1 bolt for it since exarch has a 4 butt and it can also be spellkited.
Mirror: I would add the additional Jund Charm. G Lavamancer, bob, and BBE are important cards in the mirror and this kills all of them. Plus wins the goyf war. I would keep lilly in against the mirror. Letting them dictate your hand and get free edicts will suck. I personally ditch my hand disruption is the mirror. -2 TS -3 Inquistion, imo.
Boros/Burn: Looks good.
Pod: -3 finks looks right and maybe some inquisitions since they dont hit pod and its replacement (grudge) kills it. That's a tough call but I would -4 inq for the rest of your board plus the duress. It hits the important noncreature cards like: Pod and cord of calling.
On a side note, I find your lack of graveyard hate disturbing. Be prepared to see GY based decks. Keep that in mind if you play this board.
Correct. Cascading into Jund Charm does not pump BBE. The cascade resolves first before the BBE ever hits play so it can't target him because he's on the stack at the time. You can however, "pyroclasm" the board with JC and BBE will live through it.
Tarmo can't be replaced realistically but if I had to I would pick Strangleroot Geist.
Griefing cards = Cards that would generally cause an upset reaction from others to them being played. Usually ending in the griefer winning because of their power level.
Winterorb in edh is infact a griefing card in my book. How many people here can say people don't complain about spells like armaggedon?
Fail to see? Have you ever been on the other side of a fairy player who casts a turn two bitterblossom? WoTC specifically printed hate for this card. That by itself is a pretty good indicator that it was a mistake for them to print bitterblossom. On the other hand, I do consider Jitte an overall more powerful card than bitterblossom. However, both have the same criteria for cards that grief. People are always unhappy to see them, both can be cast early and have huge effects, and if left unchecked both can win the game all by themselves. The very definition that I gave.
Nice list but the Lilburn Ga. results are a bit wrong. It was infact Jund vs Jund in the finals but the quarters was Jund vs storm and jund vs affinity. Guess Trevor was to busy playing board games to punch things in correctly.
I agree. I run 4 Cliffs and thats it. Copperline is fine but I don't think we need them. Ravine and a singleton stomping grounds is all the R/G land i need.
For the same reason Jitte is banned. Not just because they are super powerful but because they are griefing cards. Powerful cards that grief need to be where these are, on the ban list. Best decision Wizards has made in a while.
Meddling Mage
Silence
Plus:
Trickbind
Time Stop
A bit but people are starting to stear away from it in my area cause it so narrow and doesn't affect the board. I run 4 basics, 2 forest and swamps, plus 4 catacombs and it has been awesome. I think the best thing to do is keep in mind that any red deck can board in blood moon against you. So I just assume my opponent has it everytime. Aggresively fetching basics as often as you can is what I like to do. Hand distruction is another good strategy as it can strip it out of their hand before they have a chance to play it. I've actually inquistioned a plating then left them blood moon because i had a basic forest and swamp in play and let them waste an entire turn playing bloodmoon to fix my manabase and give me red mana.
Blightning is underwhelming to me too. I have cut it from my 75 as well. Targeted hand disruption is the way to go. If you want discard play 4 inquisitions and a couple of thoughtseizes. I play 4 Inqs and 1 TS main, plus 4lillys. Removal is cool but I am not a supporter of Huntmaster. He has been 100% weak sauce everytime he's been in play for me or any other person I've seen. If you want a 4 drop play thrun. Lifegain play baloth.
I'm starting to learn towards this feeling on thorm of amethyst as well. Its so narrow of a card and a lot of storm players are either blindly boarding in ancient grudge for thorn and relic or they're transforming into a splinter twin deck. I may add the 4th thoughtsieze to my board. I have the 2nd and third there now. I saw a few list playing 1-2 Night of Soul's Betrayal as a hoser. It answers a lot of cards. It makes splinter twin cry as they can't win with splinter twin or kiki. Lingering Souls is seeing a lot of play with squadren hawks in the life gain deck and blue based control decks that run swords and it locks them out. The white weenie decks fold to it and pod can't combo off with it in play and they board out most or all of their naturalize effects against jund. So I think my 2 thorns may be a 4th thoughtsieze and a miser Night of Soul's Betrayal.
I like them. Life gain on a thick body is stiff for them to deal with. Not to mention how sick he is against opposing raven's crimes and lillys. Just a good effecient card.
Maelstrom pulse answers elspeth. For sb, I do think pithing needle is legal and handles all copies of here in one go. There's also good ol' fashion damage.
You mean aggro loam? The first game is rough but I think its not to bad but favors them unless you're packing maindeck hate. After board it is better. You should have some from of graveyard hate already in your board. Cage is not very good against them, imo. They run grudge and can just draw or dredge into it before you find one and it blanks a 2nd copy if you draw it. Drawing two cards to beat their one is not a good idea, imo. Play relic or spellbomb. Nuc'ing their yard in response to a grudge is way better, imo. It leaves them with nothing but the grudge and they have to recur from scratch. Relic also draws a card and if unanswered can beat them by itself from its tap ability.
Tron is a MU I have had no trouble with but others seem to. Board into your hand destruction, all jund lists should have more in the board. Board grudge if you have it. Axing an expedetion map on turn 2, a signet, or even a wurmcoil is awesome. Lilly is your best card against them. They have a hard time answering it and they often times just fold to it. LD is always a good choice for them but most of us aren't running any. I personally run 2 ghost quarters in my list and I will never go back. I don't board anymore LD but I wouldn't shun you if you did. Molten rain is good as it gets ANY land not just nonbasics, and it deals damage. Plus it can be cascaded into without the awkward ruinblaster needing an addition red mana to kick or fluminator to sac for no damage. Btw: got your decklist for us to see?
The same could be said about Dark Confidant and goyf. Jund is an expensive deck to build. I would advise newcomers or peeps low on cash to not build it. But I do agree. Lilly is a must, imo.
Grim Lavamancer!
See comment below.
This. 100% agree. Thrun is just better than him in almost every aspect. The only other 4 drop there is, is BBE. Are he isn't replacing him either.