- Frenadol
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4
Taldier posted a message on Wizards calls out players to Promote SCG ModernPosted in: Magic GeneralQuote from SlivortalIs there criteria that a format has to meet in order to be "competitive"? EDH could easily be "competitive", would it be chose to be supported by Wizards. Perhaps "evil" was going a bit far, but it always seems like Legacy players have such vitriol against people who claim to enjoy playing Modern, like people's enjoyment of Modern actively detracts from their ability to enjoy Legacy.
So, my question is: What makes Legacy "a competitive format that stands alone on its own merits", but not Modern? Is there a such thing as objective merit for a competitive card game? I know that I had a blast at the last Modern GPT I was at, and so did everyone else there. Prizes were awarded to the winners, and the tournament was conducted in a manner conducive to a competitive tournament. So what makes Modern "illegitimate"?
Modern being treated by WOTC as "the" eternal format does detract from Legacy.
EDH, while it may be fun and chaotic, is not a balanced skill-heavy format. Its not supposed to be. That simply defies the very purpose of EDH. You can have a tournament for anything certainly, but the purpose of a tournament structure is to have somebody win in some sort of test of skill. The tournament structure itself certainly doesnt "add fun".
A competitive tournament format does not ban things purely because certain people find them "unfun". It is not designed like a commercial product to appeal to a mass market. That may be a side effect of a well-balanced game, but you dont design top down in that manner.
That is how Modern has been designed. Its sterilized Magic. Things arent just banned if they are somehow completely format warping. They are banned because a bunch of guys in a board room felt that banning them appealed to a target demographic.
Is it any wonder that they make the format more and more similar to Standard every time they meddle? They design Standard. If they didnt honestly believe that Standard was their "pinnacle of design" they would be horrible people.
But then what is the point of two different formats with identical gameplay? They dont evaluate different things. You dont have to learn any different skills to switch between them. -
3
Revel posted a message on [[Official]] GP San Diego DiscussionThe amount of whining going on in this thread is ridiculous. There were 8 different archetypes in the top 8. We saw multiple archetypes the entire weekend. Yes eggs plays a different style of game, but that's part of the allure to eternal formats. I thought the GP was great.Posted in: Modern -
3
Lantern posted a message on [[Official]] GP San Diego DiscussionMeh? I saw 8 different archtypes in the top 8, and at leeast 12 different in top 16. Unlikr everyone who is freaking out about eggs, Im really happy modern had an awesome showing tonight, and really want to see the lists for top 16, if not top 32, because there were that many cool little deck twists.Posted in: Modern
Yes eggs won, why not? Dude did a good job. Eggs is the boggie man of modern in the same way dredge is the boggie man of legacy. Pack hate in your side. As for me, I LOVE TO HATE THAT DECK. I really do. If eggs died in my meta,Id be sad. It actually gives me something to conciter a rival or whatever. I like this format a crap ton. -
1
LandBoySteve posted a message on [[Official]] Current Modern Banned List Discussion (1/2013 - 4/2013)Posted in: Modern ArchivesQuote from leh1982This. Banning Second Sunrise would stop the Eggs mirrors going long and reduce the consistency of the deck to less than current Storm. In short, banning Sunrise would make the deck playable but not competitive, the ideal for WotC.
Isn't that any oxymoron? Playable but not competitive? If it's not competitive, how is it playable? Who is going to play a deck that's not competitive unless they just don't give a rat's ass?
Of course nothing surprises me anymore and I'm sure eggs will get hit hard and the key parts of the engine will get whacked. I just hope there isn't too much splash damage. Of course that really doesn't matter as it will be quite obvious, after the next banning, that WotC wants no part of combo in Modern other than maybe Pod and Twin.
One step closer to Standard everyday. -
1
Lord_McDonalds posted a message on [[Official]] Legacy Ban List Discussion Thread (Read OP before Posting)Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)Quote from micaelmoraisyes you are correct but they are faster and in legacy thats a great deal.
using survival you equip your deck with only one answer for any type of deck that you could eventually match up
No they are not
Pod is 2 and 2 life, and then 2 life to activate, PLUS you tap it, it also requires a creature to sac and a very streamlined curve.
You can't spam zenith everyturn, the only upside zenith has over survival is you can turn it into rampant growth with dryad arbor, and even as toolbox cards they are barely comparable, I honestly want you to tell me that a recurrable enchantment is worse than a sorcery that shuffles back into your library (that you then have to draw)
Fauna Shaman is strictly worse than Survival...I don't even know where you got the idea it was the other way around.
Let it be known, I'm going to make it a point to avoid responding to your posts now, you either a) flat refuse to actually give any contextual reasoning behind why x card you be unbanned/banned or b) attempting to troll all of us, if it's a, I give up, if it's b, please troll the modern forums.
As for survival itself, Madness Survival is probably a safe enough deck, what worries me more is the aggro/control decks that Survival will eventually spawn. -
1
Tormod posted a message on Will Legacy start to drop in numbers?If/When legacy diminishes, it will go the route of edh (before commander). Players will go to their LGS for standard or modern. When they x-2 drop they will ask each other "do you have legacy?" and players will take out their decks and play for the love of Legacy.Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
Being known as a Legacy guy at my LGS, I've had occasion where I showed up at an FNM, and players ask me "Did you bring legacy?". My usual response is "yes". "Do you want to play some games?" They ask. "Sure" I reply. Then they tell the TO, "I'm dropping to play Legacy" -
3
Lormador posted a message on [[Official]] Complain about Legacy Prices & Availability ThreadPrices will continue to rise for many reasons, but I think the single most decisive factor is the gradually aging player base. With age come careers, commitments, and increased income for many. I'm 32, a bit old among the players I know but far from the oldest. Almost all of the Legacy players I know are past their middle 20s.Posted in: Legacy (Type 1.5)
I've gone from rootless wanderer picking up the scraps of teaching positions to the married manager of a private school's foreign staff. I'm not alone, either. Everyone's aspirations are, to some extent, realized at about this age. The price of Legacy cards reflects that, and will continue to reflect that.
I'm just happy I can save by avoiding blue, and still look respectable at the tables. -
2
feline_o1 posted a message on Tier Legacy Decks/lists/Prices/etc UPDATE: July-17th-2014Everything above/before this specific posting, was in relation to the old list that stopped at the end of December 2012.Posted in: Legacy Archives
End of year / Final update / Results of the "2012 season"(This post is a reference for past results from Oct-2011-to-Dec-2012, for more up to date info (Return to Ravnica Legacy decklists dating Oct-1st-2012 & beyond) check the 1st/main post at the start/top of the thread)
~ All decklists are of the post mental misstep era, aka Oct-2011 thru Dec-2012. Decks are from the Starcity legacy events & any other simularly large scale events utilized from here http://www.starcitygames.com/pages/decklists/ & http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/formato.php?format=Legacy&page=1 & for consistency, have to have placed 2 or more times in the top 16.
~Decklists are based on highest placing & most recent (Example: If it finished 1st more than once, the most recent "1st place" will be the deck noted)
~The "Tcg range total" is a sum of the decklist price taken on December-23rd-2012 from here: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck_search.asp
#) Deck / Highest finish / # of top 16's Oct-2011-to-Dec-2012
01) RUG / 1st 16 times / 252 top 16s
Maverick: (Total top 16s = 175)
02) Maverick / 1st 5 times / 153 top 16s
03) Punishing Maverick / 1st 4 times / 22 top 16s
Stoneblade: (Total top 16s = 158)
04) UW Stoneblade / 1st 7 times / 71 top 16s
05) Esperblade / 1st 7 times / 87 top 16s
06) UW Miracle control / 1st 6 times / 72 top 16s
Show & Tell: (Total top 16s = 65)
07) Show & Tell (Majority Sneak & Show) / 1st 3 times / 54 top 16s
08) Omnitell / Highest finish 2nd / 11 top 16s
09) Dredge / 1st 4 times / 53 top 16s
10) Reanimator / 1st 6 times / 52 top 16s
BUG: (Total top 16s = 51)
11) BUG control / 1st 1 times / 29 top 16s
12) BUG aggro / 1st 2 times / 22 top 16s
13) ANT / 1st 3 times / 47 top 16s
14) Bant (Majority Bant Stoneblade) / 1st 5 times / 41 top 16s
15) UR Delver / 1st 4 times / 39 top 16s
16) Goblins / 1st 2 times / 38 top 16s
17) Elves / Highest finish 2nd / 35 top 16s
18) Merfolk / 1st 2 times / 35 top 16s
High Tide: (Total top 16s = 28)
19) High Tide w/ candels / 1st 2 times / 19 top 16s
20) High tide w/out candels / Highest finish 2nd / 9 top 16's
21) Belcher / Highest finish 2nd / 28 top 16s
22) Zoo / Highest finish 2nd / 22 top 16s
23) Burn / 1st 2 times / 22 top 16s
24) MUD / 1st 1 times / 20 top 16s
25) GB explorer/NIC FIT / Highest finish 2nd / 17 top 16s
26) TES / Highest finish 2nd / 17 top 16s
27) Junk / 1st 2 times / 13 top 16s
28) Hive Mind / Highest finish 2nd / 13 top 16s
29) Aggro Loam / 1st 4 times / 13 top 16s
30) Affinity / Highest finish 2nd / 12 top 16s
31) Pox / Highest finish 3rd / 12 top 16s
32) BW aggro / Highest finish 4th / 10 top 16s
Painter's stone: (Total top 16s = 8)
33) Mono red Painter's stone / Highest finish 5th / 6 top 16s
34) UR Painter's stone / Highest finish 8th / 2 top 16s
35) Death & Taxes / 1st 1 times / 11 top 16s
36) Enchantress / Highest finish 5th / 11 top 16s
37) Lands / 1st 1 times / 9 top 16s
38) Zombie Bombardment / Highest finish 2nd / 9 top 16s
39) W/B/R stoneblade (aka Team Italia) / Highest finish 3rd / 7 top 16s
40) R/W/U / Highest finish 11th / 6 top 16s
41) Mono Blue Control / Highest finish 9th / 6 top 16s
42) Hypergenesis / Highest finish 5th / 6 top 16s
43) Stiflenaught / 1st 1 times / 5 top 16s
Stax: (Total top 16s = 5)
44) Artifact Stax / Highest finish 3rd / 2 top 16s
45) UB Planeswalker Stax / Highest finish 9th / 1 top 16
46) Prison stax / Highest finish 13th / 2 top 16s
47) Tezzeret Control / 1st 1 times / 4 top 16s
48) Aluren / Highest finish 3rd / 4 top 16s
49) Jund Highest finish 11th / 4 top 16s
50) Dream Halls / Highest finish 3rd / 3 top 16s
51) Cephalid Breakfast / Highest finish 7th / 2 top 16s
52) New Horizons / Highest finish 2nd / 2 top 16s
53) U/B Control / Highest finish 16th / 2 top 16s
54) 12 post Highest finish 2nd / 2 top 16s
55) Infect Highets finish 2nd / 2 top 16s
56) Mono blue tempo Highest finish 6th / 2 top 16s
57) Scapeshift Highest finish 7th / 2 top 16s
Decklists:
1.) RUG Delver ~1st place Kendal Guthrie StarCityGames Legacy Open St Louis, Missouri, USA (162 Players) November-4th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,627.02$ -to- 2,320.14$)
Maverick:
2.) v.1 Maverick ~1st place Marc Durán Bazaar of Moxen VI, Annecy France (722 players) May-20th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,235.13$ -to- 1,845.39$)
3.) v.2 Punishing Maverick ~1st place, Max Tietze StarCityGames Invitational, Baltimore Maryland USA (143 players) March-25th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,259.88$ -to- 1,903.88$)
Stoneblade:
4.) v.1 U/W Stoneblade ~1st place Kobie Spaeth StarCityGames Legacy Open Kansas City, Missouri, USA (209 Players) August-12th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,634.54$ -to- 2,348.19$)
5.) v.2 Esperblade ~1st place Shaheen Soorani StarCityGames Legacy Open Baltimore Maryland USA (287 Players) December-2nd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,938.39$ -to- 2,859.73$)
6.) U/W Control ~1st place, Joe Bass StarCityGames Legacy Open Dallas, Texas, USA (175 Players) November-11th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,525.50$ -to- 2,196.54$)
Show and Tell:
7.) v.1 Sneak & Show ~1st place, Richard Centanni StarCityGames Legacy Open, Las Vegas Nevada USA (169 players) December-9th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,415.17$ -to- 2,191.95$)
8.) v.2 Omnitell ~2nd place Troy Thompson StarCityGames Legacy Open Minneapolis Minnesota USA (238 Players) September-2nd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,609.45$ -to- 2,378.25$)
09.) Dredge ~1st place, Nicolás Cabello III Open Legacy Mtg Cantabria, Spain, Europe (146 players) Oct-6th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 408.26$ -to- 668.26$)
10.)Reanimator ~1st place Artur Sánchez 9º torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy Bareclona Spain(128 Players) September-15th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,474.07$ -to- 2,193.97$)
BUG:
11.) v.1 BUG Control ~1st place Marco Cammilluzzi D-Day V Portugal Europe (227 Players) March-10th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 2,471.14$ -to- 3,534.12$)
12.) v.2 BUG aggro ~1st place, Reid Duke StarCityGames Legacy Invitational Los Angeles, California, USA (208 players) December-16th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 2,412.06$ -to- 3,400.82$)
13.) ANT ~1st place Timo Schünemann GP Ghent, Belgium (1,345 Players) July-21st-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,779.78$ -to- 1,205.99$)
14.) Bant ~2nd place, Andrew Morrow StarCityGames Legacy Open, Cincinnati Ohio USA (297 players) February-12th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,834.84$ -to- 2,606.49$)
15.) U/R delver ~1st place, Sergi Barqué LCL 2012 Octubre Spain, Europe (131 players) October-20th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,032.90$ -to- 1,536.43$)
16.) Goblins ~1st place Max Tietze StarCityGames Legacy Open Atlanta, Georgia, USA (351 Players) September-23rd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 707.48$ -to- 1,146.55$)
17.) Elves ~2nd place Lukas Maurer GP Ghent, Belgium (1,345 Players) July-21st-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 384.39$ -to- 579.94$)
18.) Merfolk ~1st place Joshua Cho StarCityGames Legacy Open Buffalo New York USA (216 Players) July-29th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 709.03$ -to- 1,077.47$)
High Tide:
19.) v.1High Tide w/ candels ~1st place, Feline Longmore StarCityGames Legacy Open,Seattle, Washington USA (164 players) November-18th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,469.80$ -to- 2,324.35$)
20.) v.2High Tide w/ out candels ~2nd place, Eric Becker StarCityGames Legacy Open, Charlotte North Carolina USA (153 players) February-19th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 605.32$ -to- 1,138.24$)
21.) Belcher ~2nd place Corbin Rudnick StarCityGames Legacy Open St. Louis Missouri USA (223 Players) July-15th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 204.62$ -to- 361.98$)
22.) Zoo ~2nd place, Dan Musser StarCityGames Legacy Open, Charlotte North Carolina USA (325 players) December-11th-2011
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,026.43$ -to- 1,553.13$)
23.) Burn ~1st place, James Allen StarCityGames Legacy Open, Richmond Virginia USA (118 players) February-5th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 120.45$ -to- 289.88$)
24.) MUD ~1st place, Zac Hicks StarCityGames Legacy Open, Memphis Tennessee USA (94 players) February-26th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 422.75$ -to- 811.36$)
25.) G/B Explorer/Nic Fit ~2nd place, Paul Ewenstein StarCityGames Legacy Open, Providence Rhode Island USA (247 players) May-6th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,002.45$ -to- 1,521.22$)
26.) TES ~2nd place, Abel Planting Dutch Legacy Championship, Eindhoven Netherlands (145 players) November-27th-2011
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 786.29$ -to- 1,213.25$)
27.) Junk ~1st place Kyle Olson StarCityGames Legacy Open Minneapolis Minnesota USA (238 Players) September-2nd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,320.45$ -to- 1,948.72$)
28.) Hive Mind ~2nd place, Weston Brown StarCityGames Legacy, Las Vegas, Nevada, USA (169 players) December-9th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,254.23$ -to- 2,007.73$)
29.) Aggro loam ~1st place, Mihail Protasov Poromagia WPN Premium Tournament Finland, Europe (106 players) December-8th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,251.34$ -to- 1,937.29$)
30.) Affinity ~2nd place, Anthony Wilson StarCityGames Legacy Open, Richmond Virginia USA (118 players) February-5th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 280.41$ -to- 500.13$)
31.) Pox ~3rd place, Reid Duke StarCityGames Invitational, Charlotte North Carolina USA (315 players) December-11th-2011
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 723.07$ -to- 1,167.70$)
32.) B/W aggro ~4th place, Daniel Potter StarCityGames Legacy Open, Nashville Tennessee USA (169 players) October-9th-2011
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,159.64$ -to- 1,685.18$)
Painters stone:
33.) v.1 Mono red Painters ~5th place, Jeremy Liger Legacy Cachan, France (240 players) Janurary-15th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,732.68$ -to- 2,251.48$)
34.) v.2 U/R Painters ~8th place, Dale Mckinney StarCityGames Legacy Open, Charlotte North Carolina USA (153 players) February-19th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,521.07$ -to- 2,511.60$)
35.) Death & Taxes ~1th place, Ben Nash StarCityGames Legacy Open, Portland Oregon USA (128 players) September-9th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 881.35$ -to- 1,400.97$)
36.) Enchantress ~5th place, Chris Smith StarCityGames Legacy Open, Tampa Floridia USA (141 players) March-4th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 977.80$ -to- 1,440.46$)
37.) Lands ~1st place, Bobby Kovacs StarCityGames Legacy Open, Detroit Michigan USA (208 players) June-24th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,778.29$ -to- 3,025.67$)
38.) Zombies ~2nd place Samuel Black Starcitygames Legacy Open Los Angeles USA (269 players) December-16th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 946.07$ -to- 1,361.62$)
39.) W/B/R Stoneblade (aka Team Italia) ~3rd place Cody Lingelbach StarCityGames Legacy Open Portland Oregon USA (128 Players) September-9th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,238.20$ -to- 1,877.80$)
40.) R/W/U ~11th place, Alex Gellerman StarCityGames Legacy Open, Los Angeles California USA (180 players) Janurary-15th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,751.83$ -to- 2,606.11$)
41.) Mono Blue Control ~9th place, Dan Musser StarCityGames Legacy Open, Indianapolis Indiana USA (315 players) June-17th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 819.48$ -to- 1,155.46$)
42.) Hypergenesis ~5th place, Todd Anderson StarCityGames Legacy Open, Columbus Ohio USA (258 players) June-3rd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,256.79$ -to- 1,785.94$)
43.) Stiflenaught ~1st place, Grigoriy Gryaznov Russian National Legacy Championship, Russia (113 players) February-18th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,371.01$ -to- 2,103.26$)
Stax:
44.) v.1 Artifact Stax ~3rd place, Carson Long StarCityGames Legacy Open, Dallas Texas USA (174 players) March-11th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 739.57$ -to- 1,281.53$)
45.) v.2 U/B Planeswalker Stax ~9th place, Matt Keefer StarCityGames Legacy Open, Providence Rhode Island USA (247 players) May-6th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 2,264.50$ -to- 3,650.26$)
46.) v.3 Prison Stax ~13th place, Zack Strait StarCityGames Legacy Open, St Louis, Missouri USA (277 players) December-4th-2011
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,009.89$ -to- 1,614.32$)
47.) Tezzeret Control ~1st place, Caleb Durward StarCityGames Legacy Open, Cincinnatti Ohio, USA (205 players) October-7th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,412.02$ -to- 2,193.07$)
48.) Aluren ~3rd place, Martin Goldman-Kirst StarCityGames Legacy Open, Seattle Washington USA (164 players) November-18th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 2,669.72$ -to- 3,708.51$)
49.) Jund ~11th place, Kyle Dunne StarCityGames Legacy open Las Vegas, Nevada, USA (169 players) December-9th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,212.34$ -to- 1,789.90$)
50.) Dream Halls ~3rd place, Benjamin McDole StarCityGames Legacy Open, Orlando Floridia USA (147 players) May-20th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,065.66$ -to- 1,809.75$)
51.) Cephalid Breakfast ~7th place, Javier Domínguez 6º Torneo Lliga Catalana Legacy, Mollet, Spain (103 players) June-17th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,474.95$ -to- 2,114.14$)
52.) New Horizons ~2nd place, Alex Mateu 1º Torneo Lliga Catalana, Spain (119 players) Janurary-14th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 2,062.85$ -to- 2,939.16$)
53.) U/B Control ~16th place AJ Sacher StarCityGames.com Invitational Atlanta, Georgia, USA (351 Players) September-23rd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,709.11$ -to- 2,445.77$)
54.) 12 post ~2nd place Jeremiah Rudolph StarCityGames.com Legacy Open, Providence, Rhode Island USA (175 Players) October-14th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 1,500.21$ -to- 2,171.61$)
55.) Infect ~2nd place Olle Rade Big Legacy @ GP Madrid, Spain (234 Players) February-26th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 822.91$ -to- 1,229.06$)
56.) Mono blue tempo ~6th place Tyler Arceneaux StarCityGames.com Legacy Open, New Orleans, Louisiana, USA (91 Players) October-28th-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 828.03$ -to- 1,335.08$)
57.) Scapeshift ~7th place Eric Warns StarCityGames Legacy Open, Minneapolis, Minnesota, USA (238 Players) September-2nd-2012
(Tcg range total on Dec-23rd-2012 = 834.45$ -to- 1,359.28$)
Past updates:
Apr 8th 2012: Thread started with 6 months worth of data totaling 37 decklists. (-in order from 1st to 37th- RUG, Stoneblade (U/W & Esper), Maverick (Regular & Punishing), Bant, Reanimator, BUG, Dredge, ANT, Burn, Belcher, Zoo, Elves, Merfolk, Aggro Loam, U/R Delver, Goblins, Pox, Affinity, High Tide, Painters Stone (Mono Red & U/R), Junk, B/W Aggro, Countertop (Rug & U/W), MUD, Show & Tell, R/W/U, Enchantress, Tezzeret Control, Stax, Hive Mind, TES, G/B Nic Fit, Death & Taxes)
June 13th 2012: BUG split into aggro & control variants. (-Newly added decks- U/B planeswalker stax, Hypergenesis, Dream halls, Lands )
July 13th 2012: Large scale events utilized from "TheCouncil" added in addition to Starcity Legacy events. High Tide split into Candle & Non-Candle variants. (-Newly added decks- Team Italia/W/B/R Stoneblade, Mono Blue Control, Stiflenaught, Aluren, Cephalid Breakfast, New Horizons, Zombie Bombardment)
October 2nd 2012: Added # of 1st's for 1st place finishes. Old U/W Countertop merged into Newer U/W Miracle control. (-Newly added decks- Omnitell, U/B Control)
November 21st 2012: Stax split into 3 categories, Artifact / UB planeswalker / Prison (-Newly added decks- 12 post, infect, mono blue tempo)
December 23rd 2012: Final update for 2012 (-Newly added decks- Jund, Scapeshift, totaling 57 separate decklists)
End of year / Final update / Results of the "2012 season"(This post is a reference for past results from Oct-2011-to-Dec-2012, for more up to date info (Return to Ravnica Legacy decklists dating Oct-1st-2012 & beyond) check the 1st/main post at the start/top of the thread)
Everything below/after this specific posting, is in relation to the new list that now only includes Return to Ravnica Legacy decklists.
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1
I'm expremely interested in trying out these two. They're both legendary so they can be protected with Karakas, and they're tutorable with Sisay if you run her. Shalai in particular is a huge addition to the deck, giving hexproof against most removal and discard in the format. Even if her activated ability is wasted she's still a huge bomb.
They're also both 3W so they don't require a big colored mana investment.
1
Hey, sorry for the late answer, been really busy overall these past few days.
I did another event (3-1) with this above list with -2 Glacial Fortress +2 Hallowed Fountain and -2 Swan Song +2 Path to Exile as my shocks arrived and nobody in my LGS plays Storm or Ad Nauseam so sideboard permission wasn't really needed.
Pyromancer is really great as a tool for protecting Jace, and that's one of the main goals of the deck if you can't aggro the opponent out in the first few turns. The list runs enough burn that I didn't think 4 Paths is really needed, so I'm splitting 2/2 between main and side, and it's worked well so far. Rarely you need all 4 in game 1.
Scepter isn't really a 1-2 if they destroy it as long as you treat the card for what it really is: a 4 drop. You basically never play it with less than 4 mana open if the opponent has ways to get rid of it, and if they destroy it with 2 mana open after casting you still get an activation out if it so it's still a 1 for 1. I personally think it's a great card that can get opponents out of the blue in game 1 and if they're bringing all the artifact removal for game 2 you simply take them down and make them waste multiple slots in their deck. Scepter isn't a great sideboard card, it's one of those cards that really shine in the maindeck.
I like Opt much more than Serum Visions because of its Instant speed, and the deck tries to maximize the amount of EOT actions to make it as much of a draw go playstyle as possible. I've just never been much of a fan of Serum Visions.
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2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Flooded Strand
2 Glacial Fortress
1 Plains
2 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Isochron Scepter
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Restoration Angel
3 Vendilion Clique
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Mana Leak
4 Opt
2 Path to Exile
2 Remand
2 Blood Moon
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Kataki, War's Wage
3 Kor Firewalker
3 Rest in Peace
1 Stony Silence
2 Swan Song
Decided to go the Pyro route instead of hard control because I sold my Cryptics years ago when I stopped playing UWR Control, and honestly, with how tight the manabase is I don't even feel like I need them that much. Scepter synergyzes well with Pyro, especially now that the format has access to Opt. Don't have any of the newer cards like Search for Azcanta, although with JTMS I don't feel it's needed anyways. Suggestions welcome!
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Guy did draw pretty well every time he was on camera though.
Congrats anyways! Love seeing the deck get some recognition.
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Yes, but your argument also applies to every single "new" build that is chock full of 3-drops. The reality is that the format right now simply just isn't that fast to begin with, and the vast majority of games will go to turns 6 or 7 without much happening. Of course the opponent is not going to sit there doing nothing while you assmeble the pieces of the combo, but what can they do? You literally get to tutor for free each turn, even if they kill Sisay after one or two activations you are still massively ahead, and the rest of the deck, being GW, already has a huge advantage over mono white in the mid to lategame. The deck is just insanely consistent when it comes to its ability to close games, and you don't even sacrifice that much in the early game in order to get there. The manabase is basically the same than that of the regular GW builds I've played for a year, with a Gaea's Cradle tackled in as a 24th "non-land". And the old GW builds I made had no problems whatsoever going toe to toe against Delver and combo, just look at the sideboard to see what you can do with green mana. I've tested the manabase long enough to know there's no issue against Wasteland and Stifle decks at any stage of the round. RUG Delver is still a free matchup and you walk all over mono-W D&T especially now that you can Recruiter for Qasali Pridemage.
I simply think this is the best version of the green variant I've made so far, and it takes the color combination in a new direction and provides something unique the monowhite version lacks, which is consistency and inevitability. Also the cheese alone already makes it worth trying, literally nobody expects how this deck finishes games.
Of course the deck has some "weaknesses" that I'm not even sure need addressing since I don't even think they're that much of a downside at all (63 card deck for the extra not-quite-a-land and 2 tutor targets just like in Elves) but the purists in this thread will give me hell for daring to play more than 60 cards despite my 24 land Resto Moat builds have always had 61 cards on it and it's well known to give good results.
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A friend told me to add Bruna to the sideboard and cast her with the help of Gaea's Cradle for that spicy hot Brisela action.
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Here's the list:
4 Windswept Heath
4 Rishadan Port
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
3 Savannah
3 Plains
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Gaea's Cradle
Spells
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Mother of Runes
3 Serra Avenger
4 Flickerwisp
3 Recruiter of the Guard
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
1 Oviya Pashiri, Sage Lifecrafter
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Captain Sisay
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mangara of Corondor
1 Wilt-Leaf Liege
2 Council's Judgment
1 Banisher Priest
3 Rest in Peace
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
2 Carpet of Flowers
1 Sylvan Library
1 Gisela, the Broken Blade
So, you must be asking what the hell is happening here, and the answer is: I added a combo finish to the deck (multiple in fact), and nearly everything in the deck is tutorable in some way or another. Captain Sisay has been a project of mine for a very, very long time, and in fact one of my original goals for developing the green builds is to add said card to the kit, but her costing 4 and overreliance on drawing a copy of her in order for the deck to work properly held it back. Until now. Thanks to the printing of Recuiter I was able to revisit the the blueprints I had for the deck, and so far I'm very, very happy with the end result. The combo is very consistent without being dead at any stage of the game, and it's a blast to play.
The Sisay toolkit and combo has very different options depending on the boardstate and what you want to do, aside from providing a ton of utility to close the game with, without any of it being overbearing. If you have a Vial in your starting hand and get a Recruiter, you can 3 counter drop Recruiter and up to 4 to drop Sisay all on curve, which is pretty devastating. So what can you do with Sisay once she's in play?
- Get a Karakas to protect herself. So one of the thing I like the most is that she not only can assemble multiple combos all by herself, but she can also get a Karakas to protect herself in the process, so getting rid of her isn't easy at all once you can untap with her in play.
- Get Mangara to assemble the Karakas + Mangara combo.
- Get Gaea's Cradle and Oviya Pashiri for the huge tokens and plenty of mana to power Equipment with.
- Get Jitte. No need for SFM there, she can find any legendary card, including artifacts.
- Get and extra white source in Flagstones of Trokair.
- Get sideboard bullets on demand, like Gaddock Teeg and Gisela, the Broken Blade. Gisela is there as a tutorable WLL for those grindy matchups like Jund and especially BUG, since she steamrolls Baleful Strix and can race through a Goyf thanks to lifelink while being unkillable.
There's a lot more that can be done with Sisay, this is just the first build I've taken to a real life setting to test out. The matchups I won against were Lands, Shardless BUG and Jund. It's quite an experience to play a competitive 60 card EDH deck!
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Happy to see DnT post such good results though! Wizards has been giving the deck a lot of love lately. Now I worry about getting hit by all the hate now that other players realize DnT is a serious contender for Top 3 decks to beat.
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To be fair, with all the new toys WotC has released I'm not that worried about Dread of Night that much anymore. THC and Prelate are both X/2s, a nice improvement on how to design actually playable hatebears, unlike jank like Vryn Wingmare. Recruiter is disposable, and basically an find anything that doesn't die to Dread of Night too.
The new 1BW guy even dodges Massacre! Although its utility as a maindeck card depends on whether Eldrazi remains a sizable portion of the metagame, against which he can't do anything. At least we have THC for Elves and Eldrazi and all the more creature-y decks.
This deck is in the best state it has ever been. I never thought the deck would reach a point where we would have trouble fitting the creature slots with all the toys at our disposal instead of trying to fill the gaps with less than ideal options like we used to do.
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Keep in mind that there are very real concerns regarding speculating on staples in the format, but this ain't one.
On the other hand, the whole premise of speculating on this card expecting demand is just silly. Anyone who knows the format and has played in it knows that it will never take off. It's a novelty item and nothing more. Maybe do some foils for the people who fancy it, but it will never have real tournament demand.