Looks good, but I feel that it needs more support for it to work well, such as a Winter Orb effect. This thing wrecks Sneak and Show and Elves though.
In theory it should be really good against Delver decks but the CMC3 cost makes it a bit clunkier. Should be a safe swap for Wingmare, this Thalia is much better while slotting into the same utility role.
I still can't believe WotC finally had the dignity to not print yet another X/1.
A card being boarded out in most matchups isn't necessarily a bad card or one that has no place at being in the maindeck. You board out Revoker against a huge chunk of the field, namely Shardless, any Delver and Eldrazi. That's pretty much more thna half of what you're going to expect going into a tournament. And yet you still run 3-4. Does this mean Revoker is a bad card? Should it be cut down to 1-2 simply because you board them out after most game 1s? Of course not, and I don't think anyone can dispute that. Same with Flickerwisp, keeping a full playset postboard is just asking for getting locked out of the game with a Dread of Night against a black deck, so in most cases you trim them. Yet another example is Mangara. If you run any number of them in the current meta you will be forced to board them out pretty much every single time, yet it can still do its job preboard. Why is that? Because Mangara does powerful stuff when removal is limited and the chances of connecting are at its highest.
SoWaP is the same thing, it's a card that has a huge effect preboard, and not necessarily because of the surprise factor, I've ran it in places where everyone will know my list and the fact that I have a maindeck SoWaP and that didn't make any difference, the card is simply bomb preboard.
You need cards that are versatile and wide enough for the maindeck, but that doesn't mean they still need to remain the absolute best after the opponent tweaks their deck against yours. Sideboarding isn't simply a case of just boarding out useless stuff and bringing in the hate card, you have to adapt to how the opponent is going to adapt to you sideboarding against them, and depending on how you build your list and your sideboard the deck can perform in vastly different ways by changing a couple pieces. SoWaP, Mangara, and Revoker are good fits for DnT's preboard strategy but are bad postboard especially against BG based decks that force you into a battle of attrition. It's not just SoWaP, the whole dynamic of the matchup changes. Hope I've been able to explain it in a more concise way so that you can see better my point of view.
One thing I want to mention is that SoWaP is much more useful as a maindeck card because the card performs the best in game 1 against most matchups while its usefulness diminishes greatly postboard unluess you're palying against the mirror or Miracles. It also has good synergy with Crusader that will be more difficult to pull off postboard when all the artifact hate comes in, so again, it's more of a game 1 card.
Being a card that will be boarded out in most matchups also means you will easily have a empty slot to board in whatever you want into, not taking a creature slot is also pretty great. A very common sideboarding strategy (at least for me) is to side out both swords and bring in Batterskull for matchups where you need the lifegain (Delver, Delver, Delver). That way you take out 2 noncreature slots for the Batterskull which is half a creature and free a space. It's always recommended to avoid siding out creatures for non creatures unless you really need the space. Now if you think of the reverse situation, what would you take out to slot the SB SoWaP in? A creature? Jitte against Miracles? SoFaI against the mirror? Its uses are severely limited and would basically be a waste of a sideboard slot.
Also I agree that Cata is a huge nombo with Gideon, especially in Miracles and Shardless BUG where Thalia is also a top priority threat.
Got a 4-0 tonight with the same GW list I posted a couple pages ago, with small tweaks to the sideboard, trying a Banisher Priest while keeping the mainboard hunter:
2-1 MUD
2-1 Death and Taxes. Managed to oneshot my opponent with a SoWaP and Crusader after I CJ'd his Revoker. Feels pretty good.
2-0 BUG Delver
2-0 Eldrazi. Won game 1 after a mull to 4, keeping 2 Wastelands, 1 STP and 1 Plains. Opponent played Turn 1 Eye into 2 Mimic and 1 2/2 Endless One. Luckily for me that was pretty much it and my 2 Wastelands worked well.
3 Moms worked well, since I got 2 colorless matchups, although it did get pretty rough in the mirror. But in the end the GW build is just really good in that matchup so I wasn't that worried. Didn't see the Piest all day, although Hunter did a lot of work against Delver like always.
I would've done like you did but kept sideboarding much lighter than normal. Seeing a Usea, a Bayou and a DRS could mean he's playing anything from Shardless to Grixis Delver, so I would just limit myself to taking out cards that aren't good in those matchups but not go all the way to accomodate for it. Those 3 cards mean for sure that he's playing a black heavy "fair" deck which usually means postboard sweepers so taking out X/1's like Flickerwisp would be a sensible thing to do, and put in 2 RIPs for the DRS.
Extraction is great if you're also running Jotun Grunt like in the old days, since they don't collide with each other and the Giant is a great beatstick and doubles as GY removal. But RIP is just too good otherwise.
Only benefit of running Cata in that matchup is to kill JTMS but planeswalkers have never been too much of a threat for DnT, other than stupid crap like Liliana spam in Jund.
What? I'd have to use both hands, and my buddy's hands in addition to them, to count the number of instances where I lost to Miracles mainly due to an active Jace, the Mind Sculptor. Saying it's not much of a threat to DnT is wildly out of touch with reality imho.
I was confused for a minute then realized you just quoted a comment I made 8 months ago lol.
I was explaining that the main reason you board in Cata against Miracles is to just win by blowing up their lands, and if that's the main purpose of the card in that particular matchup then Geddon does a better job at it, since the only advantage Cata provides over Geddon is its ability to kill planeswalkers if they happen to have one in play. It doesn't get rid of countertop combo, it doesn't kill creatures because they either have none or they leave Mentor up ready to rebuild immediately because you leave them with a land to Top with.
But again, that's only in the Miracles matchup. Cataclysm is much better in general since you can board it in against many other matchups, not just Miracles.
Some blue decks used to run 2-3 FoW main with the rest in the side for the combo matchups. Would a 3-1 split for Mom allow us to run a traditionally sideboard card like Fiend Hunter, Brimaz, or Gideon? In other words, have the same 75 but hedge our bets a bit to have more well-rounded game-1s.
Yes I've decided that the need for a maindeck creature removal hatebear outweights the need for a full set of Moms because of the prevalence of Eldrazi and sweepers in the meta. It very hard to keep Mom alive in matchups where you need her, although she's still very usefulthere. Saldy for her Eldrazi is a mtchup where drawing a Mom in the wrong moment can cost you the game, and we need allt he help he can to tackle that matchup. Good thing is that once you have a god 75 for that matchup it isn't hard at all.
I went down to 3 Mom too this week, had no idea Enevoldsen was going to do the same. My reasoning was that she's not great against Eldrazi and Miracles, two matchups that are hugely represented in the meta right now. Shardless BUG also tends to not care about het at all until they get to draw their Golgari Charm.
Another card choice I was interested about was running Banisher Priest instead of Fiend Hunter. Priest hits for 2 and is immune to Warping Wail, so she's marginally better against Eldrazi, but I feel that Hunter is in general more versatile and he's hands down better against Delver decks since he can profitably block Pyromancer and his tokens. Hunter also survives weird stuff like Elesh Norn. It could go either way, the tricks with Flickerwisp that Hunter can pull off that Priest cannot aren't really relevant since the chances of it happening are very slim.
Also sucks that he had to be paired against Storm and on top of that he got hit by the absolute nuts twice.
Happy to see our deck has decent matchups against everything in the first column except maybe 4c Loam and Lands. Meta seems to be as favorable as it has been for the past year and a half.
Sorry if this was covered already, but I only went back a few pages. I've been seeing some lists running 1-of sea-gate wreckage. Anyone have success with that card? Debating if I should throw one in my list today.
I run one in my 24 lands list as the 24th land in place of the singleton Canopy. It's really good as long as you have plenty of lands int he late game, and can get you plenty of gas to close games with. I think it's certainly worth it if you can afford having one extra nonwhite mana source, but if you have limited white sources already I'd advise against running it and go for the already proven Canopy instead.
On an unrelated note, I dusted off my GW list and made 3-0-2 total today:
Matchups were 2 Miracles which were stomps pretty much as the GW list eats them for breakfast, a BUG Delver list which went to time and ended up 1-1 because I kept drawing lands and he kept drawing removal in game 3, an ID against Food Chain, and a win against a MUD 12Post list that got rekt by my 3 Qasali Pridemages killing his Ensnaring Bridges and Gaddock Teeg hosing Karn and Ugin.
I chose to cut one Mom because my local meta is infested with -1/-1 sweeper since I play DnT pretty much every week, and I wanted to make space for a single Hunter in the main to complement the 2 in the sideboard. I think it worked out alright. I didn't really miss the 4th Mom and I still think that in the GW list having 2 Library is better than 1 Library and 4 Mom.
Shardless BUG can be very easy as long as you have the right list for it. Pay attention to the number of X/1s you're running, as that is usually the most common way to get blown out with a Golgari Charm postboard. Less dependence on Vial is also desirable, as Abrupt Decay in multiple sis to be expected. Play at least 3x of Mirran Crusader/Resto Angel, those cards are nearly impossible to kill for Shardless and will give you the game in a silver platter.
Looking at your list it looks okay, although 2x WLL is recommended if you want help against BUG. 3x RIP is also very useful. My usual sideboarding strat for this matchup is to get rid of all the STPs and 3x Revoker and bring in 3x RIP and 2x Hunter together with the 2x WLL. RIP "kills" Goyf and DRS, and those are the only creatures you need to deal with as Owl and Agent do nothing once they're in play. Hunter is a creature than can time walk the opponent if it eats up a DRS, even if they kill Hunter later the damage is done, the DRS will be available a couple turns later than they would've liked, and it's still a 1 for 1. Just beware of eating Goyfs without a RIP in place as blowouts can happen, but if you attack with fliers and Crusader you're safe. Hunter is basically a fog/time walk on a stick (being a stick is very important, plus being immune to Charm/Dread), but even that is more than enough, and the value accrued during the course of a game is very noticeable.
Cataclysm is also a card that can help in that matchup, especially when it comes to killing their planeswalkers, so bringing it in is also a possiblity altohugh I don't usually do it as there's scarcely any space left and I don't feel it's necessary unlike against Miracles and Nic Fit. You can also increase your Council's Judgments to 2x if planeswalkers, equipment and Eldrazi si common in your meta, the card is good at dealing with random stuff in long, grindy games.
I don't like the SoLaS in the sideboard as it collides with RIP because they come in against basically the same matchups, and more often then not RIP will be the more important card, and will take priority when casting them.
I would still want to fit 2x WLL in the side, you never know when you will get hit by a Dread of Night or Golgari Charm. Also the potential to just wreck Jund and BUG off a Liliana. WLL is also reasonably relevant against Eldrazi, makes your creatures much better traders. It's by far my most sideboarded card since it's so versatile. It's an anthem for when you need one to survive sweepers and even as a non Decay-able vanilla 4/4 it's still pretty great.
Are 3x Canonists really necessary? Pretty much the only matchup where they are absolutely needed is in Storm, and the deck is always at the fringe of the format, never becoming a staple. Plus Storm is being hit very hard by Eldrazi right now and I know people who are reluctant to play the deck in the current meta, so it might apply to GP Columbus too. Combowise I would be more concerned about fast decks that are able to skip Chalice at 1 like Sneak and Show, Dredge and Reanimator, none of which get too hosed by Canonist.
With 3 RIPs you can side all STPs out against Shardless and free up space that way while still keeping the number of creatures up.
I've always liked Sunlance more than PtE because of the potential to give the opponent free lands when the main line of play of the deck in the early game is resource denial. But CMC1 removal comes in mainly against Delver which, aside from UR, doesn't run basics. Personal choice mainly, something to think about nothing more.
I'd say having extra creature removal in the sideboard is always welcome. There are two matchups in particular that are very popular right now and get huge benefits off extra removal: Delver (all variants) and Eldrazi. I would say that anything betwwen 1 and 3 cards in the SB are okay depending on the prevalence of those decks in your local meta.Right now Fiend Hunter looks pretty awesome, as it can eat any Eldrazi and Trade very favorably against Delver as it evades Forked Bolt and can block a Pyro all day. My second option would be Sunlance rather than PTE, although that's more of a personal preference, but Sunlance has improved somewhat in this meta as SFM is at an all time low (very few Stoneblade decks, almost no Maverick, and the mirror isn't that popular anyways). It's great at hitting early game stuff that can make your life hell, such as DRS is you decide not to board in RIPs, Delver and even Eldrazi Mimic.
In theory it should be really good against Delver decks but the CMC3 cost makes it a bit clunkier. Should be a safe swap for Wingmare, this Thalia is much better while slotting into the same utility role.
I still can't believe WotC finally had the dignity to not print yet another X/1.
SoWaP is the same thing, it's a card that has a huge effect preboard, and not necessarily because of the surprise factor, I've ran it in places where everyone will know my list and the fact that I have a maindeck SoWaP and that didn't make any difference, the card is simply bomb preboard.
You need cards that are versatile and wide enough for the maindeck, but that doesn't mean they still need to remain the absolute best after the opponent tweaks their deck against yours. Sideboarding isn't simply a case of just boarding out useless stuff and bringing in the hate card, you have to adapt to how the opponent is going to adapt to you sideboarding against them, and depending on how you build your list and your sideboard the deck can perform in vastly different ways by changing a couple pieces. SoWaP, Mangara, and Revoker are good fits for DnT's preboard strategy but are bad postboard especially against BG based decks that force you into a battle of attrition. It's not just SoWaP, the whole dynamic of the matchup changes. Hope I've been able to explain it in a more concise way so that you can see better my point of view.
Being a card that will be boarded out in most matchups also means you will easily have a empty slot to board in whatever you want into, not taking a creature slot is also pretty great. A very common sideboarding strategy (at least for me) is to side out both swords and bring in Batterskull for matchups where you need the lifegain (Delver, Delver, Delver). That way you take out 2 noncreature slots for the Batterskull which is half a creature and free a space. It's always recommended to avoid siding out creatures for non creatures unless you really need the space. Now if you think of the reverse situation, what would you take out to slot the SB SoWaP in? A creature? Jitte against Miracles? SoFaI against the mirror? Its uses are severely limited and would basically be a waste of a sideboard slot.
Also I agree that Cata is a huge nombo with Gideon, especially in Miracles and Shardless BUG where Thalia is also a top priority threat.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/425483#paper
Matchups were:
2-1 MUD
2-1 Death and Taxes. Managed to oneshot my opponent with a SoWaP and Crusader after I CJ'd his Revoker. Feels pretty good.
2-0 BUG Delver
2-0 Eldrazi. Won game 1 after a mull to 4, keeping 2 Wastelands, 1 STP and 1 Plains. Opponent played Turn 1 Eye into 2 Mimic and 1 2/2 Endless One. Luckily for me that was pretty much it and my 2 Wastelands worked well.
3 Moms worked well, since I got 2 colorless matchups, although it did get pretty rough in the mirror. But in the end the GW build is just really good in that matchup so I wasn't that worried. Didn't see the Piest all day, although Hunter did a lot of work against Delver like always.
I was confused for a minute then realized you just quoted a comment I made 8 months ago lol.
I was explaining that the main reason you board in Cata against Miracles is to just win by blowing up their lands, and if that's the main purpose of the card in that particular matchup then Geddon does a better job at it, since the only advantage Cata provides over Geddon is its ability to kill planeswalkers if they happen to have one in play. It doesn't get rid of countertop combo, it doesn't kill creatures because they either have none or they leave Mentor up ready to rebuild immediately because you leave them with a land to Top with.
But again, that's only in the Miracles matchup. Cataclysm is much better in general since you can board it in against many other matchups, not just Miracles.
Yes I've decided that the need for a maindeck creature removal hatebear outweights the need for a full set of Moms because of the prevalence of Eldrazi and sweepers in the meta. It very hard to keep Mom alive in matchups where you need her, although she's still very usefulthere. Saldy for her Eldrazi is a mtchup where drawing a Mom in the wrong moment can cost you the game, and we need allt he help he can to tackle that matchup. Good thing is that once you have a god 75 for that matchup it isn't hard at all.
Another card choice I was interested about was running Banisher Priest instead of Fiend Hunter. Priest hits for 2 and is immune to Warping Wail, so she's marginally better against Eldrazi, but I feel that Hunter is in general more versatile and he's hands down better against Delver decks since he can profitably block Pyromancer and his tokens. Hunter also survives weird stuff like Elesh Norn. It could go either way, the tricks with Flickerwisp that Hunter can pull off that Priest cannot aren't really relevant since the chances of it happening are very slim.
Also sucks that he had to be paired against Storm and on top of that he got hit by the absolute nuts twice.
Happy to see our deck has decent matchups against everything in the first column except maybe 4c Loam and Lands. Meta seems to be as favorable as it has been for the past year and a half.
I run one in my 24 lands list as the 24th land in place of the singleton Canopy. It's really good as long as you have plenty of lands int he late game, and can get you plenty of gas to close games with. I think it's certainly worth it if you can afford having one extra nonwhite mana source, but if you have limited white sources already I'd advise against running it and go for the already proven Canopy instead.
On an unrelated note, I dusted off my GW list and made 3-0-2 total today:
http://i.imgur.com/0HpUzGK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Jxj0w0J.jpg
Matchups were 2 Miracles which were stomps pretty much as the GW list eats them for breakfast, a BUG Delver list which went to time and ended up 1-1 because I kept drawing lands and he kept drawing removal in game 3, an ID against Food Chain, and a win against a MUD 12Post list that got rekt by my 3 Qasali Pridemages killing his Ensnaring Bridges and Gaddock Teeg hosing Karn and Ugin.
I chose to cut one Mom because my local meta is infested with -1/-1 sweeper since I play DnT pretty much every week, and I wanted to make space for a single Hunter in the main to complement the 2 in the sideboard. I think it worked out alright. I didn't really miss the 4th Mom and I still think that in the GW list having 2 Library is better than 1 Library and 4 Mom.
Looking at your list it looks okay, although 2x WLL is recommended if you want help against BUG. 3x RIP is also very useful. My usual sideboarding strat for this matchup is to get rid of all the STPs and 3x Revoker and bring in 3x RIP and 2x Hunter together with the 2x WLL. RIP "kills" Goyf and DRS, and those are the only creatures you need to deal with as Owl and Agent do nothing once they're in play. Hunter is a creature than can time walk the opponent if it eats up a DRS, even if they kill Hunter later the damage is done, the DRS will be available a couple turns later than they would've liked, and it's still a 1 for 1. Just beware of eating Goyfs without a RIP in place as blowouts can happen, but if you attack with fliers and Crusader you're safe. Hunter is basically a fog/time walk on a stick (being a stick is very important, plus being immune to Charm/Dread), but even that is more than enough, and the value accrued during the course of a game is very noticeable.
Cataclysm is also a card that can help in that matchup, especially when it comes to killing their planeswalkers, so bringing it in is also a possiblity altohugh I don't usually do it as there's scarcely any space left and I don't feel it's necessary unlike against Miracles and Nic Fit. You can also increase your Council's Judgments to 2x if planeswalkers, equipment and Eldrazi si common in your meta, the card is good at dealing with random stuff in long, grindy games.
I don't like the SoLaS in the sideboard as it collides with RIP because they come in against basically the same matchups, and more often then not RIP will be the more important card, and will take priority when casting them.
Are 3x Canonists really necessary? Pretty much the only matchup where they are absolutely needed is in Storm, and the deck is always at the fringe of the format, never becoming a staple. Plus Storm is being hit very hard by Eldrazi right now and I know people who are reluctant to play the deck in the current meta, so it might apply to GP Columbus too. Combowise I would be more concerned about fast decks that are able to skip Chalice at 1 like Sneak and Show, Dredge and Reanimator, none of which get too hosed by Canonist.
With 3 RIPs you can side all STPs out against Shardless and free up space that way while still keeping the number of creatures up.
I've always liked Sunlance more than PtE because of the potential to give the opponent free lands when the main line of play of the deck in the early game is resource denial. But CMC1 removal comes in mainly against Delver which, aside from UR, doesn't run basics. Personal choice mainly, something to think about nothing more.
Otherwise SB looks good. Good luck this weekend!