Cataclysm has the upside that it kills planeswalkers too, all of them. So it's better for everything ranging from Miracles to Shardless BUG to Esperblade variants. It also kills Angel tokens and Monks.
Cata can also be boarded in against decks that try to go very wide, like Elves (if you survive until turn 4) and Goblins.
If you really need help against Burn, my number one choice if you don't have a tutorboard for CoP:R would be Kor Firewalker. It's pretty hard to lose the game once you drop one unless they have the absolute nuts which doesn't usually happen. Firewalker is also pretty nice against Punishing Grove decks.
If you have no tutorboard then one thing you should think about is to put priority on creatures when weighting card choices, since you will be boarding out creatures from your maindeck most of the time. Jamming too many non creatures in the SB will dilute your deck and there's a risk of running out of gas postboard. That's why I prefer WLL over any anthem enchantment, Relic-Warder over Disenchant/C.Judgment (meta dependant, there are some metas that are bad for Warder but right now the cat is pretty good), extra Revokers over Needle if you don't already have the full set main, and Fiend Hunter over Sunlance/C.Judgment (also meta dependant like Relic-Warder, he's really good right now against Eldrazi)
Althougth I have been testing 2 Council's Judgment lately instead to shore up the Eldrazi matchup, which should be very favorable now. I still prefer Relic Warder for pretty much everything else.
+ picture (attached)! First printings of everything except Plains and Swords to Plowshares, I believe. I love seeing peoples choices for editions/art for D&T. Please share some of yours!
(PS the site rotated the image 90 degrees and I can't fix it)
The interaction between RIP, Flagstones and Cataclysm is also something worth talking about. If i control both permanents and cast a Cata saccing both, do I get to search for a Plains? I asked our local TO once who is a part time pro player and he said it shouldn't trigger but I'd like to see some definitive rulings on that.
When I first started playing this deck 3 Mangaras were the norm. Then it dropped to 2, then to 1. And now I don't run him anymore. It's not that he's too slow, but too weak stat wise. A 3 mana 1/1 is not something you can afford to do even against those grindy matchups where he shines the most (miracles, stoneblade, shardless). Izzet Staticaster, Golgari Charm, Sulfur Elemental and, most importantly, Dread of Night, are real cards. You should try to build you deck taking -1/-1 effects into account, and Mangara is overall the least impactful creature of those available to you. He's an okay Game 1 card before the hate comes out of the sideboard for your opponent, but chances are you're going to side him out after every single game regardless of how well he performs.
*Originally posted this on Reddit to the same question a week ago
If you want a pro red creature, then either Paladin en-Vec and Fiendslayer Paladin are better options. The problem with Silver Knight is that the double WW makes him awkward to cast at times, so it makes him very reliant on a turn 1 Vial to be effective. Serra Avenger is the only other WW CMC2 creature but she doesn't suffer from the same limitations because she doesn't come down till later, when you usually have deployed at least 2 white sources.
I would definitely give the Hunters a try. They patch a lot of the deficiencies of the maindeck, such as extra creature removal and more importantly, non CMC1 creature removal for Chalice decks. They're also rpetty bonkers against Grixis Delver, being able to Vial in one during combat and eat a Delver and block kill a Pyromancer for example.
On the subject of Leyline, that's a card that you really want in your starting hand for it to do pretty much anything, so by definition it should be a 4-of if you run it. But the card is subpar in this deck so the more obvious choice would be to just run zero. Generally cards that you want in your starting hand are all 4-ofs, such as Vial, Mom and Thalia, and they become increasingly worse over time, so the thing to do is to run the maximum possible amount of them in the deck to maximize your chances of having one in your opener. 2 Leylines (or pretty much any such card) is meaningless anyways.
It seems that you replied to my post but didn't quote but I'll just answer back anyways:
I was playing GW that time iirc, in the end what matters in that matchup are the white cards, and how much sideboard space are you willing to dedicate to cards that hit the matchup well. I usually tend to lean towards wider sideboard cards like RIP and Containment Priest, usually running 3 of the former and 2 of the later, as I feel those cards are too good in too many matchups, and they end up being very efficient sideboard slots, as you cover a lot of ground with few cards. But yeah, in general against Reanimator you want either of them, hopefully with a Karakas in your starting hand.
Cards that matter in Reanimator:
RIP - Stops all GY shenanigans until Decay
Containment Priest - Stops everything until they get rid of it. No reanimation, no SnT, nothing. With a Mom in play it's immune to everything except Massacre.
Revoker - Stops Griseldaddy allowing you to bounce or block him with blinkers/protection.
Flickerwisp/Resto Combo - Either solo Wisp (with Vial) or coupled with Resto to perma blink their creatures. You hardcast Wisp, then block Griselbrand with it and blink with Resto, targeting Resto back. EOT Resto comes back again targeting Wisp, Wisp blinks Resto away until your EOT. In your turn you attack with Wisp, EOT Resto comes back targeting Wisp, blink Griselbrand away until his EOT. If you have another Wisp you can chain them with Resto to keep a Griselbrand away for as many 2-3 turns each iteration, more than plenty of time to close the game with him gaining zero life the whole time. This also works in pretty much every matchup, another notable example being Sneak and Show. You can get very creative with Wisp and Resto if you decide to run her.
Fiend Hunter - He notably survives Elesh Norn and Massacre, making him pretty hard removal only vulnerable to Decay. If you are on the draw and you see the opponent is going to Turn 2 you with something you can EOT discard him off hand size and recover him with an Exhume exiling their creature. Same with Revoker if the target is obviously going to be Griselbrand, no time to react and draw.
Karakas - Obviously. But I have seem people even maindeck Pithing Needle, and always have at least 2 in the sideboard, so it's nice to have in Game 2 but I wouldn't recommend keeping a hand with no other hate postboard.
With my current list (posted a couple pages ago i think) I would side like this: +3 RIP +2 Priest +2 Hunter -1 Jitte -2 SFM -3 Avenger -1 SoFaI
Overall Reanimator is an easy matchup because it allows you to play the deck in creative ways to best the opponent, and the opponent isn't always going to be aware of all the tricks DnT can play on him. But it sometimes requires you to think outside the box, so getting plenty of practice in that matchup is a must. But once you know what kind of hand to keep and how to make the most out of your cards it can be a blast for you (but not for your opponent).
I haven't dropped a single game against Reanimator ever since last year when I played against someone who had 3 Dread of Nights in his sideboard and he managed to draw two. The matchup is legit free as long as the opponent doesn't have the absolute nuts (turn 1 Tidespout Tyrant into 3 counterspells)
Yeah Sigarda is a huge pain in the ass and singlehandedly destroys Death and Taxes once she hits the battlefield. I know a couple Nic Fit players but they all seem to say that Sigarda isn't as good in the current meta as she used to be, as the format isn't too conductive to a 5/5 dumb beater for 6 mana (off GSZ) even though she has hexproof. Liliana is also much less common than when Jund used to rule the format. Rhino lifegain seems to be better for matchups like Delver right now.
I tried to make Collected Company work in Legacy, something that so far hasn't happened but I always had the feeling that the right list was just around the corner, so it led me to research ways to make a list that used the card to its maximum extent. I immediately noticed a couple things:
- Legacy has much better CMC3 creatures than Modern does. TNN is a prime example of this.
- I always loved Mantis Rider but it never found a home in Modern because Lightning Bolt is everywhere. Well, it's certainly less common in Legacy, with only Grixis Delver playing the full set among the most popular decks.
- Having full sets of TNN, Mantis Rider and 3x Edric allowed me to maindeck 4x Force of Will without worrying about including a ton of cantrips just to get more blue cards into the deck, allowing for maximum CoCo action.
The premise of the deck is simple. Turn 1 mana dork into turn 2 three drop into CoCo mid-lategame reach. Your individual cards have very high value and and very efficient so pitching cards to FoW isn't too harmful, plus you will be getting them back with CoCo anyways. Edric TNN synergy will easily fill your hand after dumping it into play.
Mantis Rider was a card I gave a lot of thought about whether it was really worth splashing a 4th color for, but in the end I went for it because it made the whole deck much more cohesive. Some compromises had to be made though, such as the 4-3 split favouring BoP over Hierarch, and no space in the manabase for utility lands such as 2-3 copies of Wasteland and maybe a Karakas. If there's a good CMC3 blue card that can take the place of Mantis Rider I'll be happy to hear it but so far I haven't found anything as good. Lack of remvoal was a concern so having red in the manabase also allowed for Izzet Staticaster out of the sideboard, a very welcome card in some terrible matchups for this deck such as Elves.
III. Matchups
So, what's this deck good for? Basically anything that plans on playing the long game. This deck has one of the best late games in the format despite being a midrange deck, capable of grinding out stuff like Shardless BUG out of topdecks alone. The downside is that being a midrange deck it folds to fast aggro pretty hard, RUG Delver and Burn being particularly problematic, although it does much better against non Stifle Delver decks such as Grixis and some versions of BUG. Being chock full of CMC3 cards together with CoCo makes Miracles pretty much an non issue unless they can float a CMC3 card immediately after getting Countertop online, which is very unlikely as they often only have 2-3 CMC3 cards in the deck.
Overall this is a very fun deck to play with, especially if you enjoy getting drowned in value. Everything in the deck generates value, and despite being a creature deck where you turn creatures sideways and not much else, it is a fun creature deck!
Cata can also be boarded in against decks that try to go very wide, like Elves (if you survive until turn 4) and Goblins.
If you have no tutorboard then one thing you should think about is to put priority on creatures when weighting card choices, since you will be boarding out creatures from your maindeck most of the time. Jamming too many non creatures in the SB will dilute your deck and there's a risk of running out of gas postboard. That's why I prefer WLL over any anthem enchantment, Relic-Warder over Disenchant/C.Judgment (meta dependant, there are some metas that are bad for Warder but right now the cat is pretty good), extra Revokers over Needle if you don't already have the full set main, and Fiend Hunter over Sunlance/C.Judgment (also meta dependant like Relic-Warder, he's really good right now against Eldrazi)
Leonin Relic-Warder
Althougth I have been testing 2 Council's Judgment lately instead to shore up the Eldrazi matchup, which should be very favorable now. I still prefer Relic Warder for pretty much everything else.
Here's mine: http://imgur.com/a/iKB26
Sorry for potato quality. I use my trusty Espeon EX as a Germ token.
*Originally posted this on Reddit to the same question a week ago
On the subject of Leyline, that's a card that you really want in your starting hand for it to do pretty much anything, so by definition it should be a 4-of if you run it. But the card is subpar in this deck so the more obvious choice would be to just run zero. Generally cards that you want in your starting hand are all 4-ofs, such as Vial, Mom and Thalia, and they become increasingly worse over time, so the thing to do is to run the maximum possible amount of them in the deck to maximize your chances of having one in your opener. 2 Leylines (or pretty much any such card) is meaningless anyways.
It seems that you replied to my post but didn't quote but I'll just answer back anyways:
I was playing GW that time iirc, in the end what matters in that matchup are the white cards, and how much sideboard space are you willing to dedicate to cards that hit the matchup well. I usually tend to lean towards wider sideboard cards like RIP and Containment Priest, usually running 3 of the former and 2 of the later, as I feel those cards are too good in too many matchups, and they end up being very efficient sideboard slots, as you cover a lot of ground with few cards. But yeah, in general against Reanimator you want either of them, hopefully with a Karakas in your starting hand.
Cards that matter in Reanimator:
RIP - Stops all GY shenanigans until Decay
Containment Priest - Stops everything until they get rid of it. No reanimation, no SnT, nothing. With a Mom in play it's immune to everything except Massacre.
Revoker - Stops Griseldaddy allowing you to bounce or block him with blinkers/protection.
Flickerwisp/Resto Combo - Either solo Wisp (with Vial) or coupled with Resto to perma blink their creatures. You hardcast Wisp, then block Griselbrand with it and blink with Resto, targeting Resto back. EOT Resto comes back again targeting Wisp, Wisp blinks Resto away until your EOT. In your turn you attack with Wisp, EOT Resto comes back targeting Wisp, blink Griselbrand away until his EOT. If you have another Wisp you can chain them with Resto to keep a Griselbrand away for as many 2-3 turns each iteration, more than plenty of time to close the game with him gaining zero life the whole time. This also works in pretty much every matchup, another notable example being Sneak and Show. You can get very creative with Wisp and Resto if you decide to run her.
Fiend Hunter - He notably survives Elesh Norn and Massacre, making him pretty hard removal only vulnerable to Decay. If you are on the draw and you see the opponent is going to Turn 2 you with something you can EOT discard him off hand size and recover him with an Exhume exiling their creature. Same with Revoker if the target is obviously going to be Griselbrand, no time to react and draw.
Karakas - Obviously. But I have seem people even maindeck Pithing Needle, and always have at least 2 in the sideboard, so it's nice to have in Game 2 but I wouldn't recommend keeping a hand with no other hate postboard.
With my current list (posted a couple pages ago i think) I would side like this: +3 RIP +2 Priest +2 Hunter -1 Jitte -2 SFM -3 Avenger -1 SoFaI
Overall Reanimator is an easy matchup because it allows you to play the deck in creative ways to best the opponent, and the opponent isn't always going to be aware of all the tricks DnT can play on him. But it sometimes requires you to think outside the box, so getting plenty of practice in that matchup is a must. But once you know what kind of hand to keep and how to make the most out of your cards it can be a blast for you (but not for your opponent).
I. Introduction
I tried to make Collected Company work in Legacy, something that so far hasn't happened but I always had the feeling that the right list was just around the corner, so it led me to research ways to make a list that used the card to its maximum extent. I immediately noticed a couple things:
- Legacy has much better CMC3 creatures than Modern does. TNN is a prime example of this.
- I always loved Mantis Rider but it never found a home in Modern because Lightning Bolt is everywhere. Well, it's certainly less common in Legacy, with only Grixis Delver playing the full set among the most popular decks.
- Having full sets of TNN, Mantis Rider and 3x Edric allowed me to maindeck 4x Force of Will without worrying about including a ton of cantrips just to get more blue cards into the deck, allowing for maximum CoCo action.
II. The list
So, let's see the list:
4 True-Name Nemesis
4 Mantis Rider
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Qasali Pridemage
3 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Noble Hierarch
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Collected Company
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Tundra
1 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
1 Plateau
1 Taiga
1 Forest
1 Plains
2 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Windswept Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Rest in Peace
4 Meddling Mage
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Izzet Staticaster
The premise of the deck is simple. Turn 1 mana dork into turn 2 three drop into CoCo mid-lategame reach. Your individual cards have very high value and and very efficient so pitching cards to FoW isn't too harmful, plus you will be getting them back with CoCo anyways. Edric TNN synergy will easily fill your hand after dumping it into play.
Mantis Rider was a card I gave a lot of thought about whether it was really worth splashing a 4th color for, but in the end I went for it because it made the whole deck much more cohesive. Some compromises had to be made though, such as the 4-3 split favouring BoP over Hierarch, and no space in the manabase for utility lands such as 2-3 copies of Wasteland and maybe a Karakas. If there's a good CMC3 blue card that can take the place of Mantis Rider I'll be happy to hear it but so far I haven't found anything as good. Lack of remvoal was a concern so having red in the manabase also allowed for Izzet Staticaster out of the sideboard, a very welcome card in some terrible matchups for this deck such as Elves.
III. Matchups
So, what's this deck good for? Basically anything that plans on playing the long game. This deck has one of the best late games in the format despite being a midrange deck, capable of grinding out stuff like Shardless BUG out of topdecks alone. The downside is that being a midrange deck it folds to fast aggro pretty hard, RUG Delver and Burn being particularly problematic, although it does much better against non Stifle Delver decks such as Grixis and some versions of BUG. Being chock full of CMC3 cards together with CoCo makes Miracles pretty much an non issue unless they can float a CMC3 card immediately after getting Countertop online, which is very unlikely as they often only have 2-3 CMC3 cards in the deck.
Overall this is a very fun deck to play with, especially if you enjoy getting drowned in value. Everything in the deck generates value, and despite being a creature deck where you turn creatures sideways and not much else, it is a fun creature deck!
Thank you for reading!