Plan 1 Against control you want to resolve a Ascension T1 if possible. That'll wreck them. Against Aggro you want to resolve a T1 Ascension and use your dudes to block. That'll wreck them.
Plan 2 is to throw your dudes out and use the lord effects to beaf them up and win the game. This is kinda the main plan, but Ascension T1 is too good to pass up and you never know, the person on the other side could have mana leak back up. So turn 1 is ideal
Break down of the cards.
Steel Overseer, Tempered Steel, Ajani Goldmane, Throne of Geth are the lords of the deck.
Myrsmith provides free dudes that grow fast and also makes Throne targets
Chimeric Mass acts a 0 drop early to get you to metal craft faster or later makes a Wrath proof guy.
Glint Hawk Idol is just a wrath proof guy. Still very good as an out when they clear the board and you have something like a tempered steel out.
Luminarch Ascension gives the deck reach that it wouldn't have otherwise, as well as drastically improving matchups against control. Getting this to 4 counters is all that matters against them. 4 Mana and 4 counters is almost always gg
Mox Opal provides the deck it's explosiveness. 4 is maybe too much but with geth it makes for a nice mana boost while adding counters all around.
Necropede is a very nice add-on with the lords in this deck. a quick kill is possible with him as well as making alot of decks not want to attack.
Ornithopter, Memnite your free guys that can grow to insane sizes. Allows you to get metal craft quickly to explode on your opps face.
Tricks you can do with this deck. Activate Ajaini to give counters and vigilance. Attack then use overseerer to put counters on your guys then activate Geths seat to put yet another counter on all your guys. A perm +3/+3 to your team is pretty impressive.
Use your mox to make a mana then sac it to Geth and play another mox. This way you add another mana.
Has anyone figured out prophetic prism with Sun Titan when combined with Throne of Geth has a very nice effect? Helps you play more then just mono and prolifterates and draws.
I always liked wall of frost and i have never built a blue deck without 4 of them. but they are not there to stop titans. thats why i run counterspells. wall is for the smaller creatures that get through first
Yeah, it's kinda silly to use this wall to stop titans. Your in blue. Why not use counters for them and use the wall to spot the little dudes from beating you up?
Aggro: It's my toughest matchups. My meta is a huge concentration of Control with only a bit of aggro.
-1 Halimar Depths
-3 Dark Tutelage
-4 Negate
-2 Jace Beleren
-2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Disfigure
4 Doom Blade
4 Mana Leak
First off, wow. I plugged this into the stats engine, and Workstation emulator...by far one of the coolest decks, and fun, decks I've played yet. The only problem I've found with it was the lack of spot removal, but after drawing a few hands and playing out a couple of matches, I found the deck to not desperately need creature control. Almost all of your creatures are the real threats and the Negates MD molds it in place. The birds just deprive the deck of it's aggression :/
The birds were the best card that came to mind at the time. I'm looking for a card that makes mana and is a creature. I orginally thought about using something else but decided that it had to be a dude to up the count for Mul Dayas. I'm very open to ideas. Maybe Lotus Cobras?
Not to mess with the idea behind it all, but after looking at preordain, jaces, conundrum sphinx, and oracles; the Tutelage just seems like too much. Then again, the Belerens can get cut and not affect the deck, but I don't know. It's just missing that little extra "umf." Maybe -2 Jace beleren +2 Consuming Vapors. Or cut the Tutelage.
I love the visual appearance of each card when they're sitting in your hand. They look so awesome.
The only problem with dropping the baby Jace is it makes it a more fair playing field. I want the Jace Advantage. They could easily be moved to the SB though. T1 Bird, then T2 Jace against a control matchup means they won't get there JtMS active for a very long time. By then you should have your CA engine up and running and be able to out Jace them. Almost giving you the win by itself. That doesn't happen all that often but 5 jaces is a good number to have when most control decks only have 3-4.
This looks like a good budget version. I'm just wondering what are your reasonings behind running the crab? I doesn't appear to offer that much to the deck.
what do you plan on vensering? Nothing here seems to have any benefit from that effect? Or do you plan on...... Ohh. Venser does have a second ability doesn't he?
That looks pretty good to be honest with you. The only match-up I can think, that would be bad, is a control match-up, but when the Sun Titans make their way in I doubt it'll be that bad. GO PERIMETER CAPTAIN!!!...this deck has so much draw, that's not a bad things either :/ lol
Thanks for the props. I like this deck as one of the little fun decks to play ATM. Perimeter Captain is a cool little guy, and I had to make something for it to be played in. That was the orgin of this nasty wave deck.
Can someone give advise on what could be done to help with control matches? right now I have little game against them except to try to protect my wave.
Take out the Foresees and the Days. What business have you playing 4 mana cost spells in an aggro deck that tries to win as early as possible?
Engine is also a bit out there. 6 mana is a bit too much as well.
24 lands and 3 mox also look to be too much for this deck.
Play Preordains and Trinket mages in those places. Myrsmith also could have a place here as well as Chimeric Idol. There are plenty of decks already posted that seem to be a bit further along.
I dont know why I dont see more of these 'top card of the library' decks. Id be playing something like this if I owned Jaces. I love Conundrum Sphinx and the Mul Daya sisters. Be careful playing Sphinx with Channelers though. You might attack with a 4/4 and a 5/5 but then after you draw your card, the Channelers might be a measly 2/2.
As for your deck, Id play Frost Titan over Primeval. What are you ramping to after 6 mana? Add 2 Frost Titans and maybe a couple Into the Roil or Doom Blade. I dont like black in here for just one card, but thats up to you.
Frost Titan is a possible card for that slot. I perfer Primeval in that spot because it fetches Depths. That lets you set up your draws. Think of this possible scene. Attack with a Titan, Sphinx, Mul Daya Sisters. Put Sphinx then Titan on the stack. Titan resolves and grabs a Depths. Depths then resolve and set up your draw. Put the non creature on top and creature next. Then you name the non creature with Sphinx. Making your Mul Daya a 5/5.
Prime also sets up your draws with CIP and attacks to make your tutelage hit the lowest possible cost. Giving you a card for either no damage or next to nothing.
Not playing black is an option. I like it because it gives you a wonderful SB against the field. Mainly for Memorcide and Doomblades. Against Val I sb out the Tutelages for cides and name Titan. Then it becomes a race. One I can win. Against other decks The Doomblades combined with the CA is amazing.
Yeah, definitely scratch the tutelage. It's built for decks that launch 1-3 cmc spells and creatures, not one that launches 4 cmc6 and 10 cmc 4 cards. It just seems painful. But hey, if you can pull it off, I know that extra card per turn is incredibly helpful.
Tutelage comes down after I have some sort of way to tell what it's going to hit. Either JtMS, Mul Daya, Titan getting depths, Oracles whatever. Then you can alter what it actually hits by sacing a land or casting Explore, Preordain, attacking with titan, attacking with Sphinx, use baby Jace to draw, etc.
Remember after you get JtMS online you never take another damage from Tutelage. Just use the brainstorm effect to make it so you will draw a land off Tutelage. It's an easy painless Arena draw.
For every Necropotence or Tarmogoyf, there are a hundred Kederekt Parasites and Hatching Plans, aka bad cards that actually are bad but beloved by Johnnies trying to break them.
Most cards that look like they suck actually do suck. In modern Magic with so many people playing and so much better understanding of how the game works, nowadays big misjudgments are essentially absent. A card that looked "mediocre" might turn out to be "good", or a card that looked "good" might turn out to be "great". That happens occasionally, and vice versa of course, with cards that seem good turning out to be only mediocre. It is very rare in the modern era that a card that seems "mediocre" turns out to be "great". And you no longer have a card jumping from "trash" to "great" barring some miracle new card which interacts with it and only it.
In the distant past a card occasionally jumped from "trash" to "great" but only quite rarely.
However I don't think Thought Gorger is complete trash, he has some limited potential. The current environment, though, has not fulfilled his potential. The delayed draw is not enough reason to run him. I don't think the proliferate route would change that. You want the advantage the minute he hits the table, which means you want the discard to be an advantage. You want some reason to dump cards in the yard on turn 4 that is more compelling than Vengevine, aka you want a slowwww Dredge deck fit for Standard, which he might be decent for.
Wow. Totally wrong. Goyf jumped from pretty close to trash to Great. That's not distant past.
Hatching Plans was a major card in a top level deck for awhile.
Kederekt Parasite is not a bad card in the right deck either. It could easily do something in extended when played with Molten Psyche style thing. Maybe hitting possible T2 level.
So he would only swing with the 6/6 and a 2/2 into a 6/6 and 2 2/2? That doesn't seem in any way worth it. If the UB player only has 1 life then he can't swing at all and passes the advantage to the Clone player.
That might be true, but he said that he did not play Grave Titan for a couple of turns because he had a clone, not because he had a Mind control. I also do not see and problem with Aether Adept, can you explain?
Clone could have been known thru some effect. There could have been other unknown cards(don't know. He didn't say.) that could have been basically guessing about. Aether Adept because maybe he could have cloned the GT and then bounced it, then countered it. Give me a Grave Titan and another 2/2 sounds great. I know it's very doubtfull of these situations but they are still possible. My whole post was based on saying that it's not fair to say that the Grave Titan player made a mistake or was stupid for not playing it. There are variables out there that could have made him think it was the wrong play. Playing the Titan is not always the correct play. You get me?
I also enjoyed the read. But I think you did a few things wrong. #1 equip should be endurance A+. They will probably always have equips in every set or block and there is no way they will ever run out of ideas for the keyword. #2 Banding should have been #1. I mean come on man.
4 Memnite
4 Steel Overseer
4 Necropede
4 Myrsmith
3 Chimeric Mass
3 Luminarch Ascension
2 Glint Hawk Idol
3 Throne of Geth
4 Tempered Steel
18 Plains
2 Dread Statuary
Plan 1 Against control you want to resolve a Ascension T1 if possible. That'll wreck them. Against Aggro you want to resolve a T1 Ascension and use your dudes to block. That'll wreck them.
Plan 2 is to throw your dudes out and use the lord effects to beaf them up and win the game. This is kinda the main plan, but Ascension T1 is too good to pass up and you never know, the person on the other side could have mana leak back up. So turn 1 is ideal
Break down of the cards.
Steel Overseer, Tempered Steel, Ajani Goldmane, Throne of Geth are the lords of the deck.
Myrsmith provides free dudes that grow fast and also makes Throne targets
Chimeric Mass acts a 0 drop early to get you to metal craft faster or later makes a Wrath proof guy.
Glint Hawk Idol is just a wrath proof guy. Still very good as an out when they clear the board and you have something like a tempered steel out.
Luminarch Ascension gives the deck reach that it wouldn't have otherwise, as well as drastically improving matchups against control. Getting this to 4 counters is all that matters against them. 4 Mana and 4 counters is almost always gg
Mox Opal provides the deck it's explosiveness. 4 is maybe too much but with geth it makes for a nice mana boost while adding counters all around.
Necropede is a very nice add-on with the lords in this deck. a quick kill is possible with him as well as making alot of decks not want to attack.
Ornithopter, Memnite your free guys that can grow to insane sizes. Allows you to get metal craft quickly to explode on your opps face.
Tricks you can do with this deck. Activate Ajaini to give counters and vigilance. Attack then use overseerer to put counters on your guys then activate Geths seat to put yet another counter on all your guys. A perm +3/+3 to your team is pretty impressive.
Use your mox to make a mana then sac it to Geth and play another mox. This way you add another mana.
Bounce it or get 5 copies of it?
Yeah, it's kinda silly to use this wall to stop titans. Your in blue. Why not use counters for them and use the wall to spot the little dudes from beating you up?
2 Lotus Cobra
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Conundrum Sphinx
2 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Primeval Titan
4 Preordain
2 Explore
4 Negate
3 Dark Tutelage
2 Jace Beleren
4 Halimar Depths
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Creeping Tarpit
4 Forest
3 Island
1 Darkslick Shores
1 Swamp
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Disfigure
4 Doom Blade
3 Memoricide
4 Mana Leak
Aggro: It's my toughest matchups. My meta is a huge concentration of Control with only a bit of aggro.
-1 Halimar Depths
-3 Dark Tutelage
-4 Negate
-2 Jace Beleren
-2 Oracle of Mul Daya
2 Darkslick Shores
2 Disfigure
4 Doom Blade
4 Mana Leak
The only problem with dropping the baby Jace is it makes it a more fair playing field. I want the Jace Advantage. They could easily be moved to the SB though. T1 Bird, then T2 Jace against a control matchup means they won't get there JtMS active for a very long time. By then you should have your CA engine up and running and be able to out Jace them. Almost giving you the win by itself. That doesn't happen all that often but 5 jaces is a good number to have when most control decks only have 3-4.
This looks like a good budget version. I'm just wondering what are your reasonings behind running the crab? I doesn't appear to offer that much to the deck.
Putrefax = Reach
That is all
Thanks for the props. I like this deck as one of the little fun decks to play ATM. Perimeter Captain is a cool little guy, and I had to make something for it to be played in. That was the orgin of this nasty wave deck.
Can someone give advise on what could be done to help with control matches? right now I have little game against them except to try to protect my wave.
Engine is also a bit out there. 6 mana is a bit too much as well.
24 lands and 3 mox also look to be too much for this deck.
Play Preordains and Trinket mages in those places. Myrsmith also could have a place here as well as Chimeric Idol. There are plenty of decks already posted that seem to be a bit further along.
Frost Titan is a possible card for that slot. I perfer Primeval in that spot because it fetches Depths. That lets you set up your draws. Think of this possible scene. Attack with a Titan, Sphinx, Mul Daya Sisters. Put Sphinx then Titan on the stack. Titan resolves and grabs a Depths. Depths then resolve and set up your draw. Put the non creature on top and creature next. Then you name the non creature with Sphinx. Making your Mul Daya a 5/5.
Prime also sets up your draws with CIP and attacks to make your tutelage hit the lowest possible cost. Giving you a card for either no damage or next to nothing.
Not playing black is an option. I like it because it gives you a wonderful SB against the field. Mainly for Memorcide and Doomblades. Against Val I sb out the Tutelages for cides and name Titan. Then it becomes a race. One I can win. Against other decks The Doomblades combined with the CA is amazing.
Tutelage comes down after I have some sort of way to tell what it's going to hit. Either JtMS, Mul Daya, Titan getting depths, Oracles whatever. Then you can alter what it actually hits by sacing a land or casting Explore, Preordain, attacking with titan, attacking with Sphinx, use baby Jace to draw, etc.
Remember after you get JtMS online you never take another damage from Tutelage. Just use the brainstorm effect to make it so you will draw a land off Tutelage. It's an easy painless Arena draw.
Wow. Totally wrong. Goyf jumped from pretty close to trash to Great. That's not distant past.
Hatching Plans was a major card in a top level deck for awhile.
Kederekt Parasite is not a bad card in the right deck either. It could easily do something in extended when played with Molten Psyche style thing. Maybe hitting possible T2 level.
So he would only swing with the 6/6 and a 2/2 into a 6/6 and 2 2/2? That doesn't seem in any way worth it. If the UB player only has 1 life then he can't swing at all and passes the advantage to the Clone player.
Clone could have been known thru some effect. There could have been other unknown cards(don't know. He didn't say.) that could have been basically guessing about. Aether Adept because maybe he could have cloned the GT and then bounced it, then countered it. Give me a Grave Titan and another 2/2 sounds great. I know it's very doubtfull of these situations but they are still possible. My whole post was based on saying that it's not fair to say that the Grave Titan player made a mistake or was stupid for not playing it. There are variables out there that could have made him think it was the wrong play. Playing the Titan is not always the correct play. You get me?