We will be using that as a centralized place for discussion/events for the time being. Tentative plans are once-monthly sanctioned events at Total Escape Games in Broomfield. Please head over to Facebook to let us know what days/times are best for you if you would like to be involved.
Ben, while we have you here: Pete Hoefling is actually the unholy spawn of Megatron and Cruella deVille and was tutored in business by a cybernetic replica of JD Rockefeller, confirm/deny?
Pete is not a bad guy. Honestly I'm really impressed that the guy that used to wear sweatpants every weekend while running the tiny tournaments in the back room of Star City Comics has managed to turn that into such a massive empire (and get some jeans).
Dlite congrats on your results at the GP event. Do you know of any regular Legacy action happening in the Denver area? I was super psyched to hear that they're doing another Open Series event here, but I would like to get some actual playtesting in instead of going up against a thousand janky homebrews on Cockatrice.
The problem is that against either Merfolk or Goblins, hymn is just a speed bump in the early game. Merfolk has a harder time, but can still recover quite quickly off Adept or Standstill, or more often than not will just Daze/Pierce it. Goblins can easily pick up the lost cards off Ringleader or Matron.
With either of those decks (esp. Gobs) and dedicated aggro like Zoo, after the first few turns they'll have no cards in hand, or will just be holding onto burn that they can just unload in response.
Hymn is great if you see it early, even in multiples, but Deadguy just doesn't have the quality or density of threats to match more aggro builds, and once they establish board presence, more discard usually won't bail you out.
I'm working on a couple builds starting with the idea that every card should be somewhat relavent at any point in the game. Looking mainly at SFM, and toying with some other ideas to offset the significant life loss from Bob/Thoughtseize/Bitterblossom.
In my experience, the combo matchup is highly unfavorable even with a lot of hand disruption. It certainly helps, but Deadguy doesn't really put down a fast enough clock to get there before they can go off. For control, I'm thinking Hymns belong in the board.
As far as replacements, I'm not really sure. I just hate dead draws, and I'm wondering if it's even possible within this archetype to eliminate them altogether. For some good candidates, I would like to test some ideas from various lists. Notable options include Bitterblossom, SFM/equips, SDT, Elspeth, Mom, possibly even persecutor. I suppose you could try extra removal too, but I'm generally not a fan of trying to answer every threat while waiting around for some of your own to show up.
I hear you on not changing the core of the deck. Believe me I love playing with the original Pikula list, and have won against tribal/aggro, but I feel like you have to have EXACTLY the right combination of disruption and threats to have a chance. If I end up with something different, then I'll give it a different name. I just wanted to start the discussion here because BW are my preferred colors and I want to start with the Deadguy core/playstyle and go from there.
Ok maybe I've just gone completely crazy, but I'm wondering if it's time to think about cutting some or all of the Hymns, at least from the main. Sinkhole has largely been axed because it's a dead draw mid/late game, and most decks can recover from it fairly easily now. Even Wasteland is being cut from some lists because it's dead so often. I think in the current tribal/aggro dominated meta, dedicated discard is starting to look at lot more like land destruction.
So am I nuts and it's really just so good early on that it's an automatic 4-of, or could it actually be replaced by more threats or more removal or some kind of toolbox or something?
Look if you really want to run something like this in legacy, you need to start with a Dragon Stompy shell or you're going to get completely hosed. You're basically not doing anything except dropping a couple walls until turn 3. At that point basically any deck in the format is going to have board position on you (or have already won), and won't care if you start taking out lands then.
You can try something like this, which is an approximation of a deck that had fairly decent results in my old meta.
This was not my deck, so the list is not exact and I'm just going off the top of my head, but you get the idea. In most established metas now, Blood Moon is a total house, so you're first turn needs to be completely dedicated to landing a moon/Magus, chalice @ 1, or Trinisphere. Any of these will be enough of a speed bump to get you through the early game, and can shut down some decks entirely. From that point you just beat with guys while blowing up lands and throwing burn at them. Dreams is your sweeper if you're in a bind, and the sideboard would be full of REB/Pyroblast, and Volcanic Fallout for bad matchups like Goblins and Merefolk.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Front-Range-Legacy/204031092974919
We will be using that as a centralized place for discussion/events for the time being. Tentative plans are once-monthly sanctioned events at Total Escape Games in Broomfield. Please head over to Facebook to let us know what days/times are best for you if you would like to be involved.
Pete is not a bad guy. Honestly I'm really impressed that the guy that used to wear sweatpants every weekend while running the tiny tournaments in the back room of Star City Comics has managed to turn that into such a massive empire (and get some jeans).
With either of those decks (esp. Gobs) and dedicated aggro like Zoo, after the first few turns they'll have no cards in hand, or will just be holding onto burn that they can just unload in response.
Hymn is great if you see it early, even in multiples, but Deadguy just doesn't have the quality or density of threats to match more aggro builds, and once they establish board presence, more discard usually won't bail you out.
I'm working on a couple builds starting with the idea that every card should be somewhat relavent at any point in the game. Looking mainly at SFM, and toying with some other ideas to offset the significant life loss from Bob/Thoughtseize/Bitterblossom.
As far as replacements, I'm not really sure. I just hate dead draws, and I'm wondering if it's even possible within this archetype to eliminate them altogether. For some good candidates, I would like to test some ideas from various lists. Notable options include Bitterblossom, SFM/equips, SDT, Elspeth, Mom, possibly even persecutor. I suppose you could try extra removal too, but I'm generally not a fan of trying to answer every threat while waiting around for some of your own to show up.
I hear you on not changing the core of the deck. Believe me I love playing with the original Pikula list, and have won against tribal/aggro, but I feel like you have to have EXACTLY the right combination of disruption and threats to have a chance. If I end up with something different, then I'll give it a different name. I just wanted to start the discussion here because BW are my preferred colors and I want to start with the Deadguy core/playstyle and go from there.
So am I nuts and it's really just so good early on that it's an automatic 4-of, or could it actually be replaced by more threats or more removal or some kind of toolbox or something?
You can try something like this, which is an approximation of a deck that had fairly decent results in my old meta.
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Chrome Mox
4x Trinisphere
3x Blood Moon
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Pillage
4x Molten rain
2x Devastating Dreams
2x Figure of Destiny
4x Kiln Fiend
2x Price of Progress
This was not my deck, so the list is not exact and I'm just going off the top of my head, but you get the idea. In most established metas now, Blood Moon is a total house, so you're first turn needs to be completely dedicated to landing a moon/Magus, chalice @ 1, or Trinisphere. Any of these will be enough of a speed bump to get you through the early game, and can shut down some decks entirely. From that point you just beat with guys while blowing up lands and throwing burn at them. Dreams is your sweeper if you're in a bind, and the sideboard would be full of REB/Pyroblast, and Volcanic Fallout for bad matchups like Goblins and Merefolk.