After reading some of the logic presented here, I had to chime in...
I went to the top 8 of the invitational qualifier with rakdos aggro so I think I'm qualified to speak on this...
Appetite for brains is an amazing sideboard card. It hits thragtusk, resto, plainswalkers, supremes, terminus and plenty of more "Draw or die" cards against aggro.
I know we are focusing mainly on thragtusk hate but good sideboard cards need multiple uses.
Mark of mutiny is cute and does some awesome things under the right circumstances but it is very narrow and not truely competitive. Yes, IF they have cast a Thragtusk already, and IF they have no blockers and IF you have a sac outlet then this card can be an absolute blowout, but aggro decks need consisantcy, we do not have the time or board state to set up cute interactions.
As for the fact that "Appetite for brains is not aggro" well there is no rule written that says every card you have has to do damage. Duress effects have been alot in aggro for a very long time and have done quite well.
Please see thoughtseize in affinity to get an example of what i'm talking about.
The premise is simple, create large amount of mana and Devil's play someone for 20 or create 6-7 tokens along with 5 mana and BATS someone. The previously spoiled decklist featured "Rally the peasents" but M13 brought us Krenko's Command, a card that I feel, has given the deck much more consistency and the ability to keep casting and digging without the hinderence of white mana. The other change was the white spellbomb into flayer husk. Normally I would laugh at a list featuring this little guy but the ability to sac the creature and then the artifact is the perfect one caste "gas" spell that deck needs.
My newest addition to the deck is increasing vengeance, once again a card that makes me not want to take the deck seriously. Copy cards have always been cute but never competitive. After much brain storming, I decided to give it a try. I have found it to be awesome! Combo decks have always enjoyed having multiples of combo pieces in their hand. IV in your hand becomes a second Krenko command, battle hymn, infernal plunge, or kuldotha rebirth, none of these uses should go unnoticed. I also enjoy pointing out that when the deck goes off with past in flames (as it is very prone to doing) a vengeance in the graveyard can be flashed back for 2 red and creates two copies of the intended spell. This interaction is enough to create 9 guys off a kuldotha rebirth ( More than enough to BATS someone) or create two additional copies of a kill spell that normally could not get there as well as offer extra protection against counterspells.
A few things the deck lacks:
Noxious revival- I have cut this card but its use is very good. I could easily see cutting another Git probe to get it back. Its abilities are a bit more advanced but make a huge difference when they connect.
Ratchetbomb/Curse of death's hold- Smelt takes care of the former but I believe the deck should feature a maindeck splash of white in order to board in hate for both.
A note on a few things I see that:
Memnite- I like flayer husk for his ability to sac to infernal and kuldotha but memnite may not be terrible in that slot. I guess its a matter of how relevant turn 1 rebirth is and how relevant throwing down free creatures is. Getting the 6th or 7th guy for free when your trying to BATS someone seems good.
Chancelor- Very bad to me... So bad I am not even going to bother spelling it correctly. This deck usually needs 6 creatures to win. With two tokens in play, playing "chancy" will get you to six creatures when his ability resolves, which is why your opponent will suddenly find great value in his removal spells while the ability is on the stack. There is enough high cost stuff in this deck already that clumps up your hand while you're trying to curve out. His ability to generate a 1/1 haste is semi relevant but all-in-all he is highly clumsy and inconsistant.
Wild guess- More expensive and less synergy than faithless looting in this deck. I deem it very bad as well. I could see it as a singleton in many decks though as its not bad when your going off with past in flames.
Phyrexian Core- If I do not add a splash in, I think this is the perfect way to add more punch to the deck without hurting the mana base.
I would like to hear thoughts on matchups as well as challenges to current decks out there. Feel free to critique and give input to sideboard.
I am posting this here to show off the new(ish) combo deck on the rise. First spoiled by combo master AJ Kerrigan, R/W Burn At The Stake or Boros BATS is a up and coming combo deck capable off going off consistently and can be very hard to disrupt.
This is the current list I am testing without any source of white mana.
The premise is simple, create large amount of mana and Devil's play someone for 20 or create 6-7 tokens along with 5 mana and BATS someone. The previously spoiled decklist featured "Rally the peasents" but M13 brought us Krenko's Command, a card that I feel, has given the deck much more consistency and the ability to keep casting and digging without the hinderence of white mana. The other change was the white spellbomb into flayer husk. Normally I would laugh at a list featuring this little guy but the ability to sac the creature and then the artifact is the perfect one caste "gas" spell that deck needs.
My newest addition to the deck is increasing vengeance, once again a card that makes me not want to take the deck seriously. Copy cards have always been cute but never competitive. After much brain storming, I decided to give it a try. I have found it to be awesome! Combo decks have always enjoyed having multiples of combo pieces in their hand. IV in your hand becomes a second Krenko command, battle hymn, infernal plunge, or kuldotha rebirth, none of these uses should go unnoticed. I also enjoy pointing out that when the deck goes off with past in flames (as it is very prone to doing) a vengeance in the graveyard can be flashed back for 2 red and creates two copies of the intended spell. This interaction is enough to create 9 guys off a kuldotha rebirth ( More than enough to BATS someone) or create two additional copies of a kill spell that normally could not get there as well as offer extra protection against counterspells.
A few things the deck lacks:
Noxious revival- I have cut this card but its use is very good. I could easily see cutting another Git probe to get it back. Its uses are a bit more advanced but make a huge difference when they connect.
Ratchetbomb/Curse of death's hold- Smelt takes care of the former but I believe the deck should feature a maindeck splash of white in order to board in hate for both.
I would like to hear thoughts on matchups as well as challenges to current decks out there. Feel free to critique and give input to sideboard.
Do not forget about snapcaster, as a deck that abuses stifle and brainstorm, it becomes a build worth testing.
I am using it right now and I am just slamming fish. Riptide lab is stupid good with snapcaster/trinket/clique/Lavamancer. I don't see myself running more than 1 however.
I have to test against my combo and aggro buddies still, but anything that stomps fish as good as it did in testing today has got my vote.
It has nothing to do with consistancy. Its a meta call. I feel the control builds are weak vs zoo and other aggro. I believe we will see a resurgence of these decks so statistically, control will do worse.
Jace is a power house though, but without a more appropriate shell, I do not see myself running him as of yet.
Sacher does not play dreadstill. Sacher plays a control deck with dreadnought as a finisher. There is a huge difference worth noting. I am coming back to the archtype, i'v been on break since misstep popped up.
Anything running 1 dreadnought is usually a control variant. I'v decided to start testing another aggro variant. Here we go.
I thinking of picking up this deck and was wondering why builds seem to be using red over black as a second color. Bob alone seems more useful than anything red adds, while black can provide spot removal and sweepers. If lavamancer is primarily for fish, then why not just use llawan? I'd appreciate the advice of people far more experienced with the deck than I.
The debate goes back and forth from red to black. We have a hard time against swarm aggro so firesprout and clasm seem like natural choices. I have tested sweepers from black to much displeasure. Ideally sweepers can really shore up the goblin matchup but when your sweepers require BB (such as black sun or infest) your opponent now just has to keep you off BB game 3.
Il try to Pros and Cons list, though i'm sure some will disagree with my selections.
Red PROS
-Lavamancer turn one eats aggro and merfolk, combined with maindeck collar, he kills almost everything.
-Sweepers are amazing vs zoo,merfolk and goblins.
-Lightning bolt/REB are great spot removal in the above matchups.
Red CONS
-Not alot of cards ran maindeck,with so many good colors to splash I often feel we don't get the milage out of red.
-Removal is limited, You can't really kill Gofy,tombstalker, or other fattys.
-The reach that spells like Lightning bolt provide is often moot when our offensive is a 12/12.
Black PROS
-Dark Confidant is amazing. Theres nothing like him for a control deck. An unforseen bonus is that your opponent sometimes think they can kill you with him so they are apprehensive to swing, at which point you can get rid of him at your leisure and probably kill something else.
-Plague is great vs goblins, and can be used vs merfolk.
-Executioner's capsule maindeck offers spot removal that can be tutored for.
-Hand destruction maindeck can make combo matchups 80/20
-Access to spot removal,Go for the throat,smother,edict,snuff out.
-Has some sweepers, infest,zenith,damnation
Black Cons
-Many cards requires BB, not good when we already want UU for counterbalance.
-Many cards cause life loss, as a control deck this can make aggro matchups harder
-Sweepers are much more conditional and are usually more expensive.
On llawan, her cost and limited use make her very unattractive. Fish pack counterspells like daze and force, the games against fish seldom last more than 5 turns. She becomes a really all in plan, also fish use vial which gets around llawan so your all in plan may be all for not. I have tested her and would never use her. She works against 1 deck and she can be really subpar. You don't need to hardlock the game to win. A well timed pyroclasm can be all you need.
is eater of days oing to be an include in these builds or is it too risky to paly it and get your orb destroyed
Eater is terrible.
lets not forget that, people can destroy the orb in responce to playing the eater and then his ability will trigger. Way to kill yourself with your own creature.
Dreadnaught is cheaper,bigger,better.
Those deck lists discussed in the new card section will never happen.
I went to the top 8 of the invitational qualifier with rakdos aggro so I think I'm qualified to speak on this...
Appetite for brains is an amazing sideboard card. It hits thragtusk, resto, plainswalkers, supremes, terminus and plenty of more "Draw or die" cards against aggro.
I know we are focusing mainly on thragtusk hate but good sideboard cards need multiple uses.
Mark of mutiny is cute and does some awesome things under the right circumstances but it is very narrow and not truely competitive. Yes, IF they have cast a Thragtusk already, and IF they have no blockers and IF you have a sac outlet then this card can be an absolute blowout, but aggro decks need consisantcy, we do not have the time or board state to set up cute interactions.
As for the fact that "Appetite for brains is not aggro" well there is no rule written that says every card you have has to do damage. Duress effects have been alot in aggro for a very long time and have done quite well.
Please see thoughtseize in affinity to get an example of what i'm talking about.
"I swing with a 2/2"
"I Flashback Tragic step, untap weird and block your 1/1 with my 2/2"
Seems awesome.
Shrine of legions
Add blue, get bounce spells, and ponder.
This is the current list I am testing without any source of white mana.
4 Krenko's command
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Battle hymn
4 Infernal plunge
2 Past in flames
1 Increasing Vengeance
4 Reforge the soul
4 Faithless looting
3 Gitaxian probe
Artifacts 8
4 Ichorwellspring
2 mycosynth wellspring
2 Flayer Husk
2 Burn at the Stake
1 Devils play
Land 19
19 Mountain
The premise is simple, create large amount of mana and Devil's play someone for 20 or create 6-7 tokens along with 5 mana and BATS someone. The previously spoiled decklist featured "Rally the peasents" but M13 brought us Krenko's Command, a card that I feel, has given the deck much more consistency and the ability to keep casting and digging without the hinderence of white mana. The other change was the white spellbomb into flayer husk. Normally I would laugh at a list featuring this little guy but the ability to sac the creature and then the artifact is the perfect one caste "gas" spell that deck needs.
My newest addition to the deck is increasing vengeance, once again a card that makes me not want to take the deck seriously. Copy cards have always been cute but never competitive. After much brain storming, I decided to give it a try. I have found it to be awesome! Combo decks have always enjoyed having multiples of combo pieces in their hand. IV in your hand becomes a second Krenko command, battle hymn, infernal plunge, or kuldotha rebirth, none of these uses should go unnoticed. I also enjoy pointing out that when the deck goes off with past in flames (as it is very prone to doing) a vengeance in the graveyard can be flashed back for 2 red and creates two copies of the intended spell. This interaction is enough to create 9 guys off a kuldotha rebirth ( More than enough to BATS someone) or create two additional copies of a kill spell that normally could not get there as well as offer extra protection against counterspells.
A few things the deck lacks:
Noxious revival- I have cut this card but its use is very good. I could easily see cutting another Git probe to get it back. Its abilities are a bit more advanced but make a huge difference when they connect.
Ratchetbomb/Curse of death's hold- Smelt takes care of the former but I believe the deck should feature a maindeck splash of white in order to board in hate for both.
A note on a few things I see that:
Memnite- I like flayer husk for his ability to sac to infernal and kuldotha but memnite may not be terrible in that slot. I guess its a matter of how relevant turn 1 rebirth is and how relevant throwing down free creatures is. Getting the 6th or 7th guy for free when your trying to BATS someone seems good.
Chancelor- Very bad to me... So bad I am not even going to bother spelling it correctly. This deck usually needs 6 creatures to win. With two tokens in play, playing "chancy" will get you to six creatures when his ability resolves, which is why your opponent will suddenly find great value in his removal spells while the ability is on the stack. There is enough high cost stuff in this deck already that clumps up your hand while you're trying to curve out. His ability to generate a 1/1 haste is semi relevant but all-in-all he is highly clumsy and inconsistant.
Wild guess- More expensive and less synergy than faithless looting in this deck. I deem it very bad as well. I could see it as a singleton in many decks though as its not bad when your going off with past in flames.
Phyrexian Core- If I do not add a splash in, I think this is the perfect way to add more punch to the deck without hurting the mana base.
I would like to hear thoughts on matchups as well as challenges to current decks out there. Feel free to critique and give input to sideboard.
Thanks!
I am doing this from work without the deck list in front of me while dodging my boss heh.
I will make corrections when I am able.
This is the current list I am testing without any source of white mana.
4 Krenko's command
4 Kuldotha Rebirth
4 Battle hymn
4 Infernal plunge
2 Past in flames
1 Increasing Vengeance
4 Reforge the soul
4 Faithless looting
3 Gitaxian probe
Artifacts 8
4 Ichorwellspring
2 mycosynth wellspring
2 Flayer Husk
2 Burn at the Stake
1 Devils play
Land 19
19 Mountain
The premise is simple, create large amount of mana and Devil's play someone for 20 or create 6-7 tokens along with 5 mana and BATS someone. The previously spoiled decklist featured "Rally the peasents" but M13 brought us Krenko's Command, a card that I feel, has given the deck much more consistency and the ability to keep casting and digging without the hinderence of white mana. The other change was the white spellbomb into flayer husk. Normally I would laugh at a list featuring this little guy but the ability to sac the creature and then the artifact is the perfect one caste "gas" spell that deck needs.
My newest addition to the deck is increasing vengeance, once again a card that makes me not want to take the deck seriously. Copy cards have always been cute but never competitive. After much brain storming, I decided to give it a try. I have found it to be awesome! Combo decks have always enjoyed having multiples of combo pieces in their hand. IV in your hand becomes a second Krenko command, battle hymn, infernal plunge, or kuldotha rebirth, none of these uses should go unnoticed. I also enjoy pointing out that when the deck goes off with past in flames (as it is very prone to doing) a vengeance in the graveyard can be flashed back for 2 red and creates two copies of the intended spell. This interaction is enough to create 9 guys off a kuldotha rebirth ( More than enough to BATS someone) or create two additional copies of a kill spell that normally could not get there as well as offer extra protection against counterspells.
A few things the deck lacks:
Noxious revival- I have cut this card but its use is very good. I could easily see cutting another Git probe to get it back. Its uses are a bit more advanced but make a huge difference when they connect.
Ratchetbomb/Curse of death's hold- Smelt takes care of the former but I believe the deck should feature a maindeck splash of white in order to board in hate for both.
I would like to hear thoughts on matchups as well as challenges to current decks out there. Feel free to critique and give input to sideboard.
Thanks!
I am using it right now and I am just slamming fish. Riptide lab is stupid good with snapcaster/trinket/clique/Lavamancer. I don't see myself running more than 1 however.
I have to test against my combo and aggro buddies still, but anything that stomps fish as good as it did in testing today has got my vote.
Jace is a power house though, but without a more appropriate shell, I do not see myself running him as of yet.
Anything running 1 dreadnought is usually a control variant. I'v decided to start testing another aggro variant. Here we go.
4 Grim lavamancer
2 vendilion Cliques
4 Snapcaster mage
3 Phyrexian Dreadnought
3 Trinket mage
Instants
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of will
2 Spell Pierce
3 Daze
2 Lightning bolt
4 Stiffle
1 Trickbind
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensai's Divining Top
Land
1 Academy ruins
1 Mountain
2 Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Wooded Foothills
Indeed those builds would probably use enlightened tutor. This way you would be able to tutor for nought or orb and assemble him.
The debate goes back and forth from red to black. We have a hard time against swarm aggro so firesprout and clasm seem like natural choices. I have tested sweepers from black to much displeasure. Ideally sweepers can really shore up the goblin matchup but when your sweepers require BB (such as black sun or infest) your opponent now just has to keep you off BB game 3.
Il try to Pros and Cons list, though i'm sure some will disagree with my selections.
Red PROS
-Lavamancer turn one eats aggro and merfolk, combined with maindeck collar, he kills almost everything.
-Sweepers are amazing vs zoo,merfolk and goblins.
-Lightning bolt/REB are great spot removal in the above matchups.
Red CONS
-Not alot of cards ran maindeck,with so many good colors to splash I often feel we don't get the milage out of red.
-Removal is limited, You can't really kill Gofy,tombstalker, or other fattys.
-The reach that spells like Lightning bolt provide is often moot when our offensive is a 12/12.
Black PROS
-Dark Confidant is amazing. Theres nothing like him for a control deck. An unforseen bonus is that your opponent sometimes think they can kill you with him so they are apprehensive to swing, at which point you can get rid of him at your leisure and probably kill something else.
-Plague is great vs goblins, and can be used vs merfolk.
-Executioner's capsule maindeck offers spot removal that can be tutored for.
-Hand destruction maindeck can make combo matchups 80/20
-Access to spot removal,Go for the throat,smother,edict,snuff out.
-Has some sweepers, infest,zenith,damnation
Black Cons
-Many cards requires BB, not good when we already want UU for counterbalance.
-Many cards cause life loss, as a control deck this can make aggro matchups harder
-Sweepers are much more conditional and are usually more expensive.
On llawan, her cost and limited use make her very unattractive. Fish pack counterspells like daze and force, the games against fish seldom last more than 5 turns. She becomes a really all in plan, also fish use vial which gets around llawan so your all in plan may be all for not. I have tested her and would never use her. She works against 1 deck and she can be really subpar. You don't need to hardlock the game to win. A well timed pyroclasm can be all you need.
Id look at "the gate" which is much more consistant. Red/White sligh is probably much faster.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/deckshow.php?&start_date=2011-04-24&end_date=2011-04-24&event_ID=20
Eater is terrible.
lets not forget that, people can destroy the orb in responce to playing the eater and then his ability will trigger. Way to kill yourself with your own creature.
Dreadnaught is cheaper,bigger,better.
Those deck lists discussed in the new card section will never happen.