Forget the whole sleeving/unsleeving issue. Yes, it's important to some folks that their cards are sleeved (myself included). Not sure how much of that is WotC's problem though. NOTE: sleeving is not in the rules. You do not have to sleeve your cards.
No, the problem with the mechanic is that it forces you to play with a proxy if you *don't* have sleeves. Let me ask you: am I allowed to play this card in my deck if I DO NOT have a proxy for it? Can I just stick it in my unsleeved deck?
Answer: no. It is a marked card. This makes the first time they have printed a "Standard Legal" card that I am not allowed to put in my deck. There's a reason they haven't messed with the deck back before, and this is it.
(I'm with the OP in that I think design & dev were just looking for something "new" to do and messing with the back was "new").
I'm not sure you can call it "elegant" when it is physically unplayable by itself.
Sitting down to a game of magic is supposed to be about who can deal 20 damage to their opponent first
No, no it's not. Those players, and there's a lot of them, are "spoiled" by the current incarnation of this game. Magic used to be a game of multiple win conditions with very careful resource management. Your resources were not just your life total -- they were your life, your hand, your land, your permanents, your library -- any of which could come under attack. These days, I hear sooo many people whining about things like mill, or counterspells, or land destruction; it just make me sad. There was never a time in Magic when you couldn't get around any of those strategies. Nowadays it seems no one wants to bother to try. All they want to do is cry about it if any strategy other than life destruction appears. (I would link here to the numerous other rants about the dumbing down of MtG, but why bother? We all know that script by heart).
Man up! The only thing mill wrecks out of the gate is combo and if your combo was that fragile then a Memoricide would have wrecked you too. Mill is no slower than any other control deck -- and that's what they are, at heart, control decks. To successfully win at mill, you are basically just adjusting the time the other player has to win downwards to a point that you can handle. Like any other control deck you have X ways to deal with the opponent's threats. Like any other control deck, they will not be enough if you give your opponent enough time. Say, you feel like your control deck can effectively deal with and control ten turns. Mill decks take that and then try to make sure the opponent only gets ten turns (just one Hedron crab can do that). More of a short-game control strategy than a long one. Think: red burn decks using spells like earthquake to move the endpoint for the game much closer.
They *can* be just as effective as any other strategy (although currently if you aren't auto-including something like Leyline of the Void, you are at a severe disadvantage). They don't often seem to have enough ammo to be competitive but I would refer you to some of the very early U/ counter control decks that ran only Millstones (or Howling Mines) for library destruction. Now, those were long games! See Flores' Regional deck, for example. (his article on U/ control here: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/15846.html). Or Mike Long's "keeper" deck that selectively milled away threats he didn't want to deal with: http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle_primer_keeper_primer.htm (nowadays, he'd just use JtMS probably).
I'm just saying. I prefer the MtG games where there is more than one way to skin that cat.
Didn't the article say something about the Orrery giving them some sort of power over time? That could be construed as Teferi's anti-flash effect, I suppose.
We had a launch party for Zendikar Thursday. We're a pretty small group so the turnout of a dozen people was really nice. Product was scarce, so everybody had to bring in their own factory sealed booster packs (6) to make a sealed deck with. I brought a couple boxes of land for all to use as well as 12 packs I pulled out of a brand new display box.
As we started our building, I pulled out my six packs, reserving the other six for anybody who showed without cards. Thankfully, none did.
I opened the first pack. I immediately ran to the basic land slot to find my treasure: a plains. Rats! I moved on to the second pack.
"Ok, give me something good."
Again, just a land. And the same again for the third pack, this time a mountain. Man, I never get nuthin!
Pack four, I declared: "Ok, this time, Mox Sapphire!" I was ready for it too. A guy at a local store had recently found a Pearl. I could hear my Mox calling to me. I gently opened the pack and scanned through the cards.
Ten common cards. Three Uncommons. Only thirteen cards.
Treasure, indeed. No land. No rare. Not even some friendly rules reminder about how to handle malformed packs or some useful tip on controlling one's emotions. No, not for me. How this happens, one can only speculate. Here's my speculation: the universe hates me.
The people at my table shook their heads and looked at me with a kind of awe.
"You've got to be the unluckiest person alive."
"No, no," I replied. "I've got luck. It's just bad."
S. (call me "Lucky")
-----------------------------------------------
PS. The T.O. allowed me to set aside that pack and use a fresh one since I had spare packs. I've kept it as a memento, as my anti-treasure.
I don't know: I played Garruk at the PR and while he was potentially swingy every time he hit the board, he wasn't quite as powerful as I had expected. As has been said, if you don't deal with them once they hit the board, they will become a problem. What hasn't been said is that your opponent*does* deal with them. They are surprisingly easy to deal with. So... what you end up doing (as the planeswalker player) is waiting until you have board control to drop them. This makes them more of a "win more" card then a "win" card.
Don't get me wrong: I like them. But I had been afraid of them being overpowered which the certainly are not.
EDIT: for reference, I did win at that PR but mostly on the back of the White Command, not Garruk.
More importantly it means we have two instant speed 3 damage-to-creature "and/or player" burn spells in standard. This will see play in limited and block red decks, and will likely see play in whatever aggro-burn decks arise in the new standard...
I don't know: aggro-burn is typically small casting cost, built for speed. Clash doesn't work with that. What red needs for clash is some pitch spells. A good fireblast is needed to enable clash for red.
Depends on whose the active player, and who controls the Pandemonium.
If you opponent is both, then your Giant is dead. If you control the Pandemonium, then I think your Giant lives.
If you are the active player, you Giant should always live.
I was thinking it was the other way around. If your opponent is Active Player (probably, if he is playing a creature) and the Pandemonium is his, his trigger stacks first, then yours (APNAP). This would keep the giant alive.
If you control the Pandemonium, you get to stack both triggers (to your giant's benefit).
If he somehow is able to do it on your turn, however, via Elvish Piper or something, then you would have to stack the giant's trigger first and he would die.
That's how I understand it, at any rate.
EDIT: Woowoo, 100 posts. Finally, some respect! Ok, self-respect but I'm working on it.
Using your grid:
Primary Secondary
White 1 3
Blue 2 0
Black 1 3
Red 2 1
Green 2 1
Consider how you draft after pack 1 and then after pack 2. I think the thing to take away from this is that if you draft color 1 in pack 1 and color 2 in pack 2 (you probably won't do that but let's just say) then what are the odds of getting one of those two colors in pack 3? If you drafted RU then you have 5/16 chance that a given card will be in your color. If you draft GB, then the chance is 7/16. Blue looks likely to get under-drafted here because of this. This is all irregardless of the cards, of course, which may swing things.
As unlikely as it is, I do like the idea of Planeswalkers moving from set to set (plane to plane, as it were) without restriction for flavor reasons. Yes, it will never work and hopefully won't be attempted but I like it just the same.
For flavor reasons, I also wouldn't be surprised to see them be able to participate in combat. They won't go to the graveyard, of course, but probably removed from the game.
Hi y'all. First, let me say I'm in the "Permanent" school of thought here (I agree with zwan). I think simply not being creatures allows them to dodge enough removal to make them interesting without resorting to too much rules shenanigans. I do, however, expect to see a p/t for them so that they can attack (and thus distinguish themselves from enchantments).
I've also been wondering about the drawback. They have to be powerful or they won't pass muster as a "planeswalker" but that means they need a drawback. Of the recent mechanics, the one that really stands out to me as semi-omnipotent is "Epic". Could the planeswalkers work like that? Many people have proposed 'walkers as cards that could cast spells. What if those became the only spells you could play while the 'walker was in play? Essentially, you become this other planeswalker for the duration.
This would allow them to be very powerful but present a strong enough drawback that it would require a build around to use fully as well as present good options for opponents.
That was it, just one thought. I have to ration them you know.
Well, the first thing I thought of when I saw the pact cards was: what if I just skip that next turn instead? Chronotog, for example, can be used to dodge the bullet if your storm tricks don't work out quite as planned.
No, the problem with the mechanic is that it forces you to play with a proxy if you *don't* have sleeves. Let me ask you: am I allowed to play this card in my deck if I DO NOT have a proxy for it? Can I just stick it in my unsleeved deck?
Answer: no. It is a marked card. This makes the first time they have printed a "Standard Legal" card that I am not allowed to put in my deck. There's a reason they haven't messed with the deck back before, and this is it.
(I'm with the OP in that I think design & dev were just looking for something "new" to do and messing with the back was "new").
I'm not sure you can call it "elegant" when it is physically unplayable by itself.
No, no it's not. Those players, and there's a lot of them, are "spoiled" by the current incarnation of this game. Magic used to be a game of multiple win conditions with very careful resource management. Your resources were not just your life total -- they were your life, your hand, your land, your permanents, your library -- any of which could come under attack. These days, I hear sooo many people whining about things like mill, or counterspells, or land destruction; it just make me sad. There was never a time in Magic when you couldn't get around any of those strategies. Nowadays it seems no one wants to bother to try. All they want to do is cry about it if any strategy other than life destruction appears. (I would link here to the numerous other rants about the dumbing down of MtG, but why bother? We all know that script by heart).
Man up! The only thing mill wrecks out of the gate is combo and if your combo was that fragile then a Memoricide would have wrecked you too. Mill is no slower than any other control deck -- and that's what they are, at heart, control decks. To successfully win at mill, you are basically just adjusting the time the other player has to win downwards to a point that you can handle. Like any other control deck you have X ways to deal with the opponent's threats. Like any other control deck, they will not be enough if you give your opponent enough time. Say, you feel like your control deck can effectively deal with and control ten turns. Mill decks take that and then try to make sure the opponent only gets ten turns (just one Hedron crab can do that). More of a short-game control strategy than a long one. Think: red burn decks using spells like earthquake to move the endpoint for the game much closer.
They *can* be just as effective as any other strategy (although currently if you aren't auto-including something like Leyline of the Void, you are at a severe disadvantage). They don't often seem to have enough ammo to be competitive but I would refer you to some of the very early U/ counter control decks that ran only Millstones (or Howling Mines) for library destruction. Now, those were long games! See Flores' Regional deck, for example. (his article on U/ control here: http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/article/15846.html). Or Mike Long's "keeper" deck that selectively milled away threats he didn't want to deal with: http://www.magicdeckvortex.com/mdvarticle_primer_keeper_primer.htm (nowadays, he'd just use JtMS probably).
I'm just saying. I prefer the MtG games where there is more than one way to skin that cat.
So where does the "One" fit into this "Matrix"?
And while I agree that Yoda is greatly goblinish, goblins don't seem like a "strange" type.
Why do people keep thinking Defender??
It says:
*Force me to attack you, do you? Comply, I must. (I must attack)
*Defend against me, you will. (You must block)
That is explicitly not a defender.
* are p/t values so this would seem to be a creature. So */1? Or is the One the casting cost?
It has a strange Type. Perhaps a Weird?
I'm not getting defender from that -- just the opposite: Attacks each turn, must be blocked in some way (provoke, lure, or other), does not fly.
Haste + shroud for anger + cloud? Maybe. What about the "Mastery" bit?
We had a launch party for Zendikar Thursday. We're a pretty small group so the turnout of a dozen people was really nice. Product was scarce, so everybody had to bring in their own factory sealed booster packs (6) to make a sealed deck with. I brought a couple boxes of land for all to use as well as 12 packs I pulled out of a brand new display box.
As we started our building, I pulled out my six packs, reserving the other six for anybody who showed without cards. Thankfully, none did.
I opened the first pack. I immediately ran to the basic land slot to find my treasure: a plains. Rats! I moved on to the second pack.
"Ok, give me something good."
Again, just a land. And the same again for the third pack, this time a mountain. Man, I never get nuthin!
Pack four, I declared: "Ok, this time, Mox Sapphire!" I was ready for it too. A guy at a local store had recently found a Pearl. I could hear my Mox calling to me. I gently opened the pack and scanned through the cards.
Ten common cards. Three Uncommons. Only thirteen cards.
Treasure, indeed. No land. No rare. Not even some friendly rules reminder about how to handle malformed packs or some useful tip on controlling one's emotions. No, not for me. How this happens, one can only speculate. Here's my speculation: the universe hates me.
The people at my table shook their heads and looked at me with a kind of awe.
"You've got to be the unluckiest person alive."
"No, no," I replied. "I've got luck. It's just bad."
S. (call me "Lucky")
-----------------------------------------------
PS. The T.O. allowed me to set aside that pack and use a fresh one since I had spare packs. I've kept it as a memento, as my anti-treasure.
Don't get me wrong: I like them. But I had been afraid of them being overpowered which the certainly are not.
EDIT: for reference, I did win at that PR but mostly on the back of the White Command, not Garruk.
I don't know: aggro-burn is typically small casting cost, built for speed. Clash doesn't work with that. What red needs for clash is some pitch spells. A good fireblast is needed to enable clash for red.
I was thinking it was the other way around. If your opponent is Active Player (probably, if he is playing a creature) and the Pandemonium is his, his trigger stacks first, then yours (APNAP). This would keep the giant alive.
If you control the Pandemonium, you get to stack both triggers (to your giant's benefit).
If he somehow is able to do it on your turn, however, via Elvish Piper or something, then you would have to stack the giant's trigger first and he would die.
That's how I understand it, at any rate.
EDIT: Woowoo, 100 posts. Finally, some respect! Ok, self-respect but I'm working on it.
Primary Secondary
White 1 3
Blue 2 0
Black 1 3
Red 2 1
Green 2 1
Consider how you draft after pack 1 and then after pack 2. I think the thing to take away from this is that if you draft color 1 in pack 1 and color 2 in pack 2 (you probably won't do that but let's just say) then what are the odds of getting one of those two colors in pack 3? If you drafted RU then you have 5/16 chance that a given card will be in your color. If you draft GB, then the chance is 7/16. Blue looks likely to get under-drafted here because of this. This is all irregardless of the cards, of course, which may swing things.
JMHO
For flavor reasons, I also wouldn't be surprised to see them be able to participate in combat. They won't go to the graveyard, of course, but probably removed from the game.
I've also been wondering about the drawback. They have to be powerful or they won't pass muster as a "planeswalker" but that means they need a drawback. Of the recent mechanics, the one that really stands out to me as semi-omnipotent is "Epic". Could the planeswalkers work like that? Many people have proposed 'walkers as cards that could cast spells. What if those became the only spells you could play while the 'walker was in play? Essentially, you become this other planeswalker for the duration.
This would allow them to be very powerful but present a strong enough drawback that it would require a build around to use fully as well as present good options for opponents.
That was it, just one thought. I have to ration them you know.
Just a thought.