MTG Salvation

Switching to non-fliers seems reasonable and it would better distinguish us from Kaladesh.

I've also been thinking about Clues and Living weapons and came up with a possible solution to our issue with Component requiring another artifact to do anything. What if Components ETB attached to a blank colorless artifact token, similar to how Living weapons came in attached to Germs?

Finally, how did you make the stickers? I've been looking around but I haven't found anything that looks good.

I'm still around (though quite busy with Grad school), I'll be able to pop in and comment/make suggestions but I won't be able to dedicate a huge chunk of time to the project.


As for the suggested changes, I'm fine with bumping up Midnight Thoptering to 3(2/W) and switching around the lifelink and vigilance french vanillas.

Hello all, I have returned from exile (Grad School.) what have I missed?

Since we've decided to rework the Trash into Salvage shouldn't we go through and start throwing out some new suggestions for the holes we have now?

Ravnica Bounce lands (in my experience at least) are played in every casual and edh deck they're in-color for. They might not have been chase cards on the level of Tarmogoyf but they still were (and are) sought after. They were sitting around a dollar piece for a bit and it wasn't until a couple of massive reprints in commanders sets and dual decks that they dropped down to where they are now.

In any case, I disagree with mono-colored bounce lands being unprintable at common. They do provide value, yes but then again is that a bad thing? If we want these to be sought after in limited, we should keep them as they are. If not we can go with the colorless/color duals that I suggested earlier.

Quote from deritof »

If we redesign them, we have to do only one of the modification for now otherwise we are threading on eggshell giving almost the same power as the guildhalls at Common. (The guildhalls were at least uncommon.)

There are only two reasons the Ravnica Bounce Lands were uncommon in MM2.

First, they allow for easy splashing when all ten are present in limited (a problem our CM bounce lands don't share, since there are only five rather than ten and they don't fix colors.)

second, because Wotc are greedy bastards that essentially print money by selling cards with addictive ink. A newbie wouldn't know about buying singles or may stigmatize it. They might however buy these awesome packs that contain awesome stuff and cost $10 though.

Quote from deritof »

As for the question about Salvage only hitting permanents, since we are using an ability word, should we play around with it? We could uniformize it to permanents or we could do cards that do anything, cards that care about spells and some that wants lands.

If we're going down the Grim lavamancer route, I don't see why we shouldn't continue down that direction. Odyssey showed us that there is plenty of ore still in that particular mine and its relatively untapped.

Besides, if we start mixing the types of cards they can choose from in the graveyard, it'll add complexity. Both permanent and nonpermanent choices have complexity issues, however, when they are taken together, their issues dry up a bit by boiling them down to their common dominator, the fact that they're cards. That makes the "any two cards" version relatively simple and an ideal choice.

Edit: P.S. Love the Karoos idea, though the names might have some flavor implications. Also anytime I can see more Spreading Seas type cards printed makes me happy as a Fish player.

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know whether the "strictly better than a basic land"-rule applies to Wastes? I'd imagine it doesn't but has Wotc actually commented on it?

Quote from MOON-E »

Depletion lands aren't bad but they do have an annoying side. Can't tell you how many games I've put a die on a vivid land and didn't touch it for the rest of the game.

I hearty agree on the Vivids. That's why I put the colorless generation on the normal tap ability, it encourages you to use colorless mana. Having said that, what if we split the difference? Something between the Sandstone Bridge/Kabira Crossroads cycles from ZEN and BFZ and the Blighted cycle from BFZ? Sort of like this:

Exploited Meadow
Land [Common]
When ~ enters the battlefield, target creature gets +1/+1 and gains vigilance until end of turn.
: Add to your mana pool.
The farmers of the Mid-Lands did not take kindly to the Robber Barons' intrusion.

Obviously the actual ability could be something different but it gets the idea across.


Edit:

We could even have something as simple as this:

WCHybrid Land
Land [Common]
~ enters the battlefield tapped.
: Add or to your mana pool.

Would something along the lines of the Depletion Lands from Masques work? Or would they be too complex for commons? Something like:

Fertile Farmland
Land [Common]
~ enters the battlefield with two depletion counters on it.
, remove a depletion counter from ~: Add to your mana pool and gain 1 life.
: Add to your mana pool.

Quote from MOON-E »

Quote from grimGrendel »

I retract my comment. This is extremely valid. We should keep the mono-colorer filter lands.

My question is more about wanting a new cycle or sticking with the old, bad one.

I'm not sure calling them "bad" is entirely appropriate or unbiased.

They certainly push steam-power hard but I disagree that that's a bad thing. One of the things I think we have a problem with now in the current set is the splashiblity of C, Oath has done that. We need to push somewhere else and the obvious direction is to have thing benefit from needing multiple colorless mana.

If we choose to go that direction, the original Lands would work really well. If we keep the current versions of several cards (such as Steam Strike) in the set, then we'll need to come up with a different cycle that doesn't produce such large amounts of colorless mana.

P.S. I for one welcome our new Lavamancer-style overlords.

So the two we're still looking for are the ones so let's narrow that huge list down a bit:

• Scry 2
• Target tapped creature does not untap during its controller’s next untap step.
• Draw a card
• Target player puts the top 2 cards from his or her library into his or her graveyard
• You may return a permanent you control to its owner’s hand

• Up to 1 target creature gets +2/+0 until end of turn.
• Target creature you control gains menace until end of turn
• Target creature gains haste until end of turn

The two bold'd ones under blue stand out to me as interesting but our red choices are very limited. I think we need something more universal than just effecting creatures.

You're right, Inspection Unit does look mediocre compared to Pensive Talisman, especially since they both fill kind of the same purpose (a tiny buff that you get while using it for something else.) we could bump it up to Scry 2, but that might be too good. While I agree that we want these to be awesome, we also have to keep in mind that they are commons.

Also I agree on Builder's plate, it's a shoe-in for the last common component slot.

I'm going to take a moment to flesh out the Common Components I suggested a few days ago...

First the Cycle...

Spotlight Unit (Formerly Blinding Spotlight)
Art description: A large spotlight shines from atop a Brass City Guard Golem's back, blinding a would-be wrong-do'er.
Focus: A light in the darkness, driving out misdeeds.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, tap target creature.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Inspection Unit
Art description: An Archesterian tinker uses an increasingly rediculous number of mangifing glasses to check every detail of his masterpiece.
Focus: Devil's in the details.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, Scry 1.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Syphon Unit
Art description: Noxious plumps billow from a machine. There are workers coughing up black soot around it while attempting to continue to work. Almost hidden, the machine is reabsorbing the coughed up air.
Focus: The malevolence of technology, hard at work.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, each opponent loses 1 life. You gain life equal to the life lost this way.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Screeching Unit
Art description: Atop a machine a siren spins, emitting a obnoxious droning warble. The people around the machine are clapping their hands over thier ears and seem to be trying to figure out how to turn off the sound.
Focus: Annoying but effective.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, target creature can't block this turn.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Condenser Unit
Art description: As mana-infused steam billows out of a large machine, a globe-like apparatus catches is and drips it into a collection container.
Focus: Every last drop is important.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Whenever upgraded artifact becomes tapped, add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

And the last three:

Still have no idea for the second -esque Component.

Oiled Gears
Art description: Interlocking gears twist and spin in the bowels of a machine, in the background can be seen Assembly-workers toiling away.
Focus: The secret underlying Archesterian greatness.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Upgraded artifact untaps during each other player's untap step.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Flight Assembly (Formerly Flight Wire)
Art description: A box containing all the materials needed create a small zeppelin (Canvas, rope, propellers, etc.)
Focus: Instant Airship, just add air. And the ship.
Artifact - Component [Common]
Upgraded artifact is a 2/2 creature in addition to its other
types and has flying.
Upgrade ( : Attach to target non-Component artifact
you control. Upgrade only as a sorcery.)

Quote from MOON-E »

I don't see how changing blinding spotlight reduces board complexity.

Yeah, I'm not sure what I was thinking at the time, I must have been really tired and spouting nonsense.

Looking at it now, Blinding Spotlight feels like a shoe-in for the white spot in the cycle and it'd be much more interesting than gaining life.

Any thoughts on what the second white-esque component might do? The one with an activated ability I mean.