Hi Rowan, this is a great list! Thanks for the comments in my own thread (here - you might remember it :)). I'm glad it could serve as such an inspiration for you! As you've undoubtedly seen, Niv-Mizzet Commander is arguably the most fun you can have in Magic, and it seems to have served you well over the past year.
As you noticed in my thread, I haven't been playing the game heavily for quite some time now, so my list IS pretty old. I'll be making updates in the near future, so hopefully that will breathe some new life into the list! I'm going for a different theme than you - I aim for an unstoppable and resilient late-game, rather than a consistent, powerful, early win - so our lists complement one another quite well.
At any rate, a few card choices you, or others, might consider depending on their meta and the speed of their decks:
Flusterstorm - You seem to play lots of spells, so this is excellent protection.
Trinket Mage - Sooooo many targets
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - You might choose not to play him - but I really believe that any blue deck, especially focused around searching, dig, and card-draw, NEEDS to have an explanation for why he's not there.
Pithing Needle - Just something to keep in mind, if you're up against tricky decks.
Tolarian Winds - For a deck like yours, which focuses so heavily on self-generated card draw, this is 1cc cheaper than Windfall and can be played at instant speed.
Blue Sun's Zenith - Potential replacement for Stroke of Genius, if you think the color cost is worth it
Ponder
Negate
Hinder
Dissipate
- How does Vesuva treat you? My deck isn't designed to be as quick as yours, and even there it seemed to be dead weight most of the time.
- I'm a little unsure about Mishra's Workshop - seems to me like it's only useful for getting the Lotus or Dynamo out and is otherwise a very huge hit to tempo / waste of a land slot.
- How often does Temporal Mastery go off for its miracle cost? Regular old Time Warp sounds like the better choice if you're often winning on turns 3-8.... not much opportunity for Miracle to really save you that much cost.
- I have the same question with Reforge the Soul - how often do you ever cast it for Miracle cost, vs. it being dead weight? Would Time Reversal suit the slot better? You're already pretty hard in blue (easier cost to meet), and you get to recycle your hand / graveyard.
- I might be missing something about your meta (and I haven't had time to read through all 9 pages yet), but Mindbreak Trap seems narrow and costly.... I would pick Flusterstorm or Negate over it almost undoubtedly (especially because you win so quickly that you generally won't even care about not countering a single creature).
- Do you ever use buyback on Reiterate? If not, I'd swap it with Fork
- Boseiju is a double-edged sword if you're really shooting for tempo.... how has it worked out for you? It's often a thorn in my side, even with a slower deck, and I've been on the fence about removing it.
Awesome list, I really would like to try it sometime :D:thumbsup:
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I feel you are too heavy on the stax cards. In my experience stax actually isn't a very viable strategy in multiplayer for the simple reason that you'll get hated out in subsequent games. People don't like not being able to play their decks. Aurelia can't handle the heat that a blue deck might be able to. I would downsize the stax theme considerably keeping things like Cataclysm, Winter Orb, Armageddon, and Stranglehold that are efficiently costed and/or tutorable. You'll also discover over time that having too many stax cards is less than ideal because they are very situational. You'll often find yourself in a spot where they aren't the best thing to put down, being dead weight in your hand.
The second issue I'm seeing is your lack of a draw engine. Mind's Eye and Wheel of Fortune aren't enough. Lack of card advantage is the biggest weakness of Boros IMO. The only real answer here is Skullclamp and maybe Mask of Memory. In more competitive circles you'll quickly notice your lack of card draw. Once your board is wiped you're pretty much done, forced to top deck for the rest of the game. You'll be looking for answers. I largely built Warclamp around Skullclamp for this reason, hence the token subtheme. Token armies are also a pretty good way to re-establish your board position after a wrath. With things like Purphoros, God of the Forge, and Sublime Archangel, things can get pretty crazy.
Additionally, Breath of Fury has become a reliable win condition with this strategy. It's tutorable, and able to kill people without even going infinite. Along this same vein, Splinter Twin does similar things.
The best token makers in Boros are: Hero of Bladehold, Monastery Mentor, Krenko, Mob Boss, Goblin Rabblemaster, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, and Emeria Angel. What do these all have in common? They are aggressively costed creatures that produce creature tokens for free. Preference is given to creatures that combo with Breath of Fury for infinite damage/tokens/combat phases.
A card that I'm giving a a good run is Shivan Harvest. Works well with tokens. It's less hated than some of the more iconic stax cards but still gives you the ability to keep your opponents under control.
You are relying pretty heavily on Aurelia. After she get's knocked out a few times, 10 or 12 mana is a lot to recast her. Boros has a pretty hard time getting those kind of numbers. Since a lot of your mana makers are creatures, they are likely be nuked by a wrath along with Aurelia which is why I've avoided them. I don't think this glass cannon approach is the most ideal strategy with her. I find she is best cast when you already have a solid board, putting things like Sword of the Animist and Krenko, Mob Boss into overdrive.
It's pretty much impossible to do Boros without an equipment theme. You are well on your way but you are missing Stoneforge Mystic, Puresteel Paladin, Sword of the Animist, and Umezawa's Jitte all of which I think are well worth the slots. I also like Blade of Selves and the new Open the Armory (also tutors Grasp of Fate, Breath of Fury, and Splinter Twin). Maybe the best thing about equipment is that they are harder to get rid of than creatures. Almost every deck packs creature wipes, but there are fewer artifact wipes out there. You can put down a new creature, suit up and still be a potent threat at the table.
I'm not hot on Mana Vault and friends because we have no cheaty way to untap them. They only produce colorless so their usefulness is a bit limited. They are basically a Dark Ritual in artifact form. Multiplayer is more about sustainability rather than those burst wins for the simple reason that those kind of wins are easy to shut down with cheap spot removal and counterspells. With 3 opponents your chances aren't so great of pulling that kind of thing off.
For ramp, I'm finding that things like Ashnod's Altar (there's nothing like saccing 10 tokens and killing someone with Aurelia's Fury >:P), Explorer's Scope, Paradise Mantle, Sword of the Animist, and Oath of Lieges can be really synergistic.
This is the current iteration of Warclamp as of Shadows Over Innistrad, I'm pretty happy with it.
DAMAGE MULTIPLIER/INFINITE
1 Breath of Fury
Equipment
1 Argentum Armor
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Sword of the Animist
1 Umezawa's Jitte
RAMP
1 Mana Crypt ($$$)
1 Sol Ring
1 Paradise Mantle
1 Oath of Lieges
1 Pearl Medallion
1 Boros Signet
1 Knight of the White Orchid
1 Ashnod's Altar
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Coalition Relic
1 Explorer's Scope
1 Thran Dynamo
LANDS
Basics
4 Mountain
5 Plains
Duals
1 Command Tower
1 Cavern of Souls ($)
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plateau ($$$)
1 Battlefield Forge
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Arid Mesa
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
Land Hate
1 Strip Mine
1 Dust Bowl
1 Wasteland ($$)
Other Nonbasics
1 Buried Ruin
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Ancient Tomb ($)
1 Sunhome, Fortress of the Legion
1 Hall of the Bandit Lord
Cycling
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Drifting Meadow
1 Forgotten Cave
1 Smoldering Crater
CREATURES
Token Makers
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos ($)
1 Krenko, Mob Boss
1 Emeria Angel
Face Smashers
1 Sublime Archangel
1 Purphoros, God of the Forge
TUTORS
1 Enlightened Tutor ($)
1 Quest for the Holy Relic
1 Land Tax ($)
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Stoneforge Mystic ($$)
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Goblin Matron
1 Imperial Recruiter ($$$$)
1 Open the Armory
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Stonehewer Giant
1 Goblin Welder
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Sun Titan
REMOVAL/CONTROL
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Path to Exile
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Wear // Tear
1 Grasp of Fate
1 Retribution of the Meek
1 Austere Command
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Terminus
MANA DENIAL (AKA NUCLEAR WEAPONS)
1 Armageddon
1 Cataclysm ($)
1 Winter Orb
1 Shivan Harvest
EVASION
1 Legion Loyalist
1 Iroas, God of Victory
1 Mother of Runes
CARD ADVANTAGE
1 Skullclamp
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Mentor of the Meek
1 Puresteel Paladin
1 Mind's Eye
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I don't feel that Vedalken Shackles is optimal for the deck. As is, I've only got 6 islands. In mono blue, I'd absolutely use it but here I'm skeptical.
WumpaWolfy My paper deck is currently lacking Show and Tell, Snapcaster Mage, Intuition, Personal Tutor, Omniscience, Force of Will, Diamond Mox, Grim Monolith, all the fetchlands... basically everything over $20 a pop. I don't really believe in proxies. I typically buy maybe one high dollar card a month. I've got 2 other decks, so the upgrade process is slow due to budget concerns (a guy can't eat magic cards). I recently bought a Temporal Mastery and a Cryptic Command for Niv.
Glokks One of things I really don't like about Omniscience and Enter the Infinite is how terrible they are to have in my opening hand due to their cost and exclusively late game value. I'd rather have an answer.
Jester's Cap effects is something that the mid range control version of the deck could probably benefit from. Extract doesn't hit has hard as Jester's Cap but is much more efficient. Consider that Cap takes 6 to use. by the time I have that much mana available the game might already be over.
Not sure if I like Wash Out or Devastation Tide more. What do you think? I'm a huge fan of selective board wipes at efficient costs. Tide is more of a hard reset and therefore a bit more reliable in dire situations.
I'm still on the fence with Mindmoil. I like how it's just an old fashioned win condition with the possibility of going infinite. If Inner Fire/Comet Storm is not available, it's nice to know I have a solid backup. However, my previous arguments against it remain.
Helm of Awakening is most likely coming out. I honestly don't really need it for the Top/Future Sight combo. "1: Draw a card." is already really good. The benefit the helm gives to my opponents isn't worth it IMO. It's laughable alongside Rhystic Study. I think Gilded Lotus is going to come back in this spot.
I'm a bit undecided on whether to swap out Tolarian Winds or Reforge the Soul. I think I need to keep at least one so that I can reliably fill my graveyard with recursion options. (Imagine dumping 10+ cards into your yard only to overload Mizzix's Mastery a turn later!)
This next batch of swaps is going to require a complete overhaul of the primer. I'm a lazy dragon and that's a daunting task, but here's updated swaps list for starters. What do you think?
What I still want to find room for: Leyline of Anticipation, Day's Undoing, Memory Jar, Devastation Tide.
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FIREMIND'S FURY
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
A PRIMER ON NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND
SO, WHY PLAY NIV-MIZZET, THE FIREMIND?:
PREFACE:
DECKLIST:
BUDGET/CASUAL/NON-INFINITE ALTERNATIVE
STRATEGY:
HANDCYCLING:
MIRACLE TOOLBOX:
GRAVEYARD RECURSION
COUNTERBALANCE PACKAGE:
WIN CONDITIONS AND NOTABLE COMBOS:
VULNERABILITIES:
SIDEBOARD:
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Certified Air Raid Material
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________
UNOFFICIAL PRIMER ON KAALIA OF THE VAST
UNDER CONSTRUCTION!!! - CRITIQUES WELCOME
For blueram's multiplayer primer go here.
For 3drinks exceptional 1v1 primer go here.
DECKLIST
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Kaalia is definitely one of my favorite decks. While I'm not that Kaalia guy, I can offer a few suggestions. I would recommend going with exactly 20 ADD (angels/demons/dragons) to start with. You can go a bit lower or a bit higher depending on the rest of your deck.
Here are your weakest ADD:
Akroma, Angel of Fury - her mana cost is way too high for just a beater. You really want the majority of your ADD to have relevant enters the battlefield abilities or when this creature deals combat damage abilities. If they cost a horrendous amount their abilities need to be downright game winning to be justified. You want the majority of your ADD to be hardcastable.
Bladewing the Risen - he really only works in a Dragon dedicated Kaalia build. You should find yourself a Karmic Guide instead.
Blinding Angel - she's obviously great in 1v1 but I would hesitate running her in multiplayer because of her low P/T
Eternal Dragon - Cut this for some card draw. Faithless Looting, Wheel of Fortune, Necrologia, or Phyrexian Arena. Alternatively, you can increase your tutor count.
Harvester of Souls - his lack of evasion is lamentable. I would swap this for Ob Nixilis, Unshackled when it comes out In the meantime swap for sorcery based card draw or tutors. Lord of the Void is also another fairly decent demon.
Hellkite Charger - the ability just costs too much and it can't be used the turn he comes out so chances are fairly good he's going to get removed before you have a chance to use the ability. I would swap this for Thundermaw Hellkite if you can get one.
Malfegor - The One with Nothing effect is unnecessary. Just go with a solid board wipe spell. Cataclysm, Austere Command, Earthquake, Toxic Deluge, and Decree of Pain are all pretty solid choices.
Mana-Charged Dragon - this one can get cut completely for ramp, draw, or tutors
Oros, the Avenger - go with Balefire Dragon
Reya Dawnbringer - she just costs too much for what you are getting. The effect is too slow. Archangel of Thune or Karmic Guide will serve you better.
Scourge of Valkas - this is another one that's just bad.
Seizan, Perverter of Truth - I'd cut this for sorcery based draw.
That's about all I have time for at the moment. I'm sure 3drinks will be back in here to chastise you some more
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I've been thinking about this deck for a while and you certainly have a good start on it. Although I would argue that Melek is indeed the better commander (and actually more interesting IMO). This deck is so similar to Niv-Mizzet it's almost the same deck, but there are certainly some major differences.
Suggestions for testing:
Reiterate + Turnabout is a fun combo but you really need Dream Halls or Omniscience to use it reliably. Either that or Helm of Awakening or Goblin Electromancer (which I notice that you're already running). I think it's a powerful way to get infinite mana and I run the combo in my Niv-Mizzet build. What can you do with infinite mana? My go-to spell is Comet Storm but you can also just cast Enter the Infinite and then everything else that you need to win.
Future Sight should really be in here since you are already running Senei's Divining Top. Add in Helm of Awakening or Etherium Sculptor and you have infinite draw as well as infinite storm count (limited by the size of your library).
Inner Fire and Comet Storm is my primary win condition in my Niv-Mizzet build. You have most of the pieces here to make it work as well. It's totally non-permanent based, very hard to stop, and says "I win" very clearly. It's simple and unexpected.
Mirror Sheen could find a home here - it mostly acts as a shield against "target player..." stuff. You can also copy Blue Sun's Zenith or Time Warp with it.
alternatively, Mirari could be a lot better and won't get hit by All is Dust
Isochron Scepter seems like a no brainer and can be recurred with Academy Ruins or tutored for with Fabricate.
You're missing the cheap hand improvement suite which includes cards like Faithless Looting, Frantic Search, Careful Study, Impulse, Brainstorm, Ponder, Preordain, Compulsive Research, Careful Consideration. These cards are useful at just about any point in the game and I would recommend running at least 3-5 of them. They get rid of those topdecked late game bombs that you don't need in the early game, and conversely, later in the game, they let you dig for those bombs. You can recur things that are discarded with Past in Flames etc, or just cycle them back into your deck with Time Spiral etc... I think these kinds of cards should be a part of just about any deck running blue and especially Izzet who needs specific cards at specific points in the game.
I think infinite turns is a reliable win condition for this deck. You're going to want Time Warp, Temporal Manipulation, Walk the Aeons, or Capture of Jingzhou. Archaeomancer can be used to go infinite but you need Riptide Laboratory or something else to bounce her. I would add some redundancy here with Crystal Shard and/or Tidespout Tyrant for bounce and Izzet Chronarch and/or Mnemonic Wall for recursion. Incidentally Tidespout Tyrant could be a nice win condition in itself.
Candidates for removal:
Rapid Hybridization - This is pretty subpar removal in this format because it can only destroy the creature (won't work against things that are indestructible or untargetable) and that 3/3 lizard could be breathing down your neck for the rest of the game since you don't really have that many fatties to block it with.
Stifle - I think most of the time you are going to want a hard counter. Something like Negate, Remand, Swan Song, or even Mindbreak Trap or Foil.
Price of Progress - arguably I can see you doing a lot of damage with this, but will it be enough to win? You're also effectively limiting your own nonbasic options. You're missing Riptide Laboratory, Ancient Tomb, Shivan Reef, City of Brass, Mana Confluence, Oboro, Palace in the Clouds, and Cephalid Coliseum.
Elixir of Immortality - Honestly, although they cost more you'd be better off with Time Reversal or Diminishing Returns since they also combo with Consecrated Sphinx and help to flesh out your handcycling subtheme (which if you've read my primer you know how powerful it is)
Cursed Totem, Torpor Orb - do these really need to be here? Your opponents won't have any relevant creatures if you can continuously board wipe. I would swap for All is Dust which is one of my favorite board wipes. It doesn't hit our own artifact ramp but gets EVERYTHING ELSE.
Shattering Spree - not sure if you need to double up on the artifact removal. You might be able to better utilize this spot. Could be a meta choice though.
Rite of Replication, Bribery - while these are certainly powerful spells, I'm not sure that they are being used to their full potential here. Your deck is non-creature based and I don't like the way these cards rely on your opponents to find good targets. It could be better to use the slots to bring you closer to your own win conditions.
Ignite Memories - this has no synergy with the rest of the deck that I can see. Maybe try Grapeshot?
Time Stretch - this costs a horrendous amount of mana. Since you're running Mystical Tutor (as you should) maybe try Temporal Mastery. If you include Personal Tutor as well you have a reasonable chance of Time Walking during the first few turns. Since you aren't using very much mana to cast Temporal Mastery, it's easier to Reverberate or Twincast it.
Dominus of Fealty - I think this belongs in a Nin, the Pain Artist build and maybe not even then. It's fairly expensive and has no synergy with the rest of your deck.
Mercurial Chemister - Nice flavor and good abilities but a rather hefty mana investment. If you decide to board wipe with Evacuation, Blasphemous Act, or All is Dust you'll be losing him. I would swap for something like Frantic Search or Compulsive Research which have synergy with the rest of the deck and help out early game.
Charmbreaker Devils - The buff they get is nice but the cmc is too high I think. You want non-creatures wherever possible. I'd swap for something like Recoup or Call to Mind.
Frozen Æther, Stranglehold - do you really need the control? Honestly, the best defense is a good offense. You want speed and card advantage. These will be your strongest weapons. So I might demote these to your sideboard and throw in more artifact ramp and more card draw.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor - bet you didn't see this critique coming. Planeswalkers, notably Ral Zarek, Jace, the Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret the Seeker, Chandra, the Firebrand, and Karn Liberated are less than ideal in a non-creature based deck. I've found that walkers are very prone to removal or getting hit by creatures especially in multiplayer. They typically don't last more than a few turns. With so few creatures of our own we have no way to protect them aside from counters which I wouldn't want to waste. Paying 2UU for a Brainstorm or an Unsummon and 3R for a Reverbrate, and 7 for a Vindicate just isn't efficient.
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Some cards you might consider: Time Reversal, Winds of Change, Incendiary Command, Shattering Spree, Recurring Insight, Thought Reflection, Faithless Looting, Careful Study, Tolaria West, Inner Fire, and Dream Halls among others.
Take a look at my primer for further info.
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I have a few ideas. One is Dream Halls and/or Omniscience You have a lot of high CMC cards. You will struggle to cast them in more aggressive games. They will also make it much easier to cast your infinite mana combos especially. It also negates Winter Orb lockdown effects.
Why not add the Grim Monolith/Basalt Monolith + Power Artifact combo? It only costs 3U or 4U to set up.
More ramp would not hurt this deck. I know you want to go infinite, but speed to getting to that point helps a lot. Consider adding the moxen.
Your lands could use a bit of an upgrade. I know they are spendy, but it helps.
Your counter arsenal could also be upgraded. You are missing Force of Will and Pact of Negation. Remand is also good. I know this is partly a matter of $$$ but it goes a long way.
[CARD]
Chromatic Lantern[/CARD] + Caged Sun seems pretty decent. Props for that combo XD. Sun is still just a bit steep on CMC for me.
Consider adding Frantic Search, Careful Study, and Faithless Looting. I was hesitant to add these at first, but they are really powerful. They let you fix an otherwise terrible starting hand and allow you to draw into your combo cards/mana accel sooner. They are cheap to cast and almost always benefit you, even in mid-late game.
Hand-cycling is also something that I notice largely missing from this build. I'm maybe a bit biased, but they are some of my favorite cards in MTG. Read the section on hand-cycling in my primer for more info, but I would at least add Time Spiral and Wheel of Fortune.
Extra turn spells are also very nice in this type of deck and you could easily go infinite with them as well.
A few other infinite combos you might consider:
[CARD]
Tidespout Tyrant[/CARD] + Sol Ring + Mana Vault or Mana Crypt. Tyrant also works with 2 of any of following untap land creatures: palinchron/cloud of faeries/ perigine drake/ great whale, etc or any of the double mana producing lands like izzet boilerworks etc + pandemonium = infinite mana and infinite enters the battlefield triggers.
Intruder Alarm + Kiki
Izzet Chronarch + Deadeye Navigator + 7 or more lands + Turnabout = Infinite mana