You don't. Or else you'd be seeing double LED -> Ad Naus.
You cast the spell, utilizing the mana from whatever other sources. Only then can you activate LED, it's a mana ability with a unique timing restriction, and a cost that happens to be the loss of your hand.
Well that makes a lot more sense now.
Wants to play DDFT. Can't tie shoes without help.
On that note, what makes fetches so significant that they are included in the title? ER wouldn't tell me.
It's a bit more Top reliant than some other DD decks. There is a sacland doomsday list that's pretty good for learning how to play the style.
Basically it tells you what type DD you're playing.
A fetch's ability is an Activated Ability. These are good to stifle. You're getting a land, you're not using the fetch for mana.
LED's ability is a mana ability - it's an ability that gives you mana. It just so happens that the cost for it is to discard your whole hand.
Yes, you are paying for the cost (something you do in order to use the ability in the first place) in order to tap it for mana (uncounterable mana ability). What I still don't get is how you can tap it for mana, use that mana to cast a spell in your hand, then discard your hand as part of the payment.
You don't. Or else you'd be seeing double LED -> Ad Naus.
You cast the spell, utilizing the mana from whatever other sources. Only then can you activate LED, it's a mana ability with a unique timing restriction, and a cost that happens to be the loss of your hand.
I believe there was an era where it was possible, although it would have been with Interdict I imagine. If not I'm a cheater and I can live wit that.
Could be. I don't really know the history of LED. Someone tried to Stifle one on camera at the GP a couple weeks ago (after naming it with Pithing Needle), which turned out about as well as you would expect.
Wait, you can Stifle a fetchland, but no LED, because the first one gives you mana via lands (as intended in this game) and the last one gives you mana? Yeah...
A fetch's ability is an Activated Ability. These are good to stifle. You're getting a land, you're not using the fetch for mana.
LED's ability is a mana ability - it's an ability that gives you mana. It just so happens that the cost for it is to discard your whole hand.
This isn't a bad way to get back into the swing of things, so I'll tackle the new legends from a fresh perspective:
Hixus, Prison Warden: As a straight up beater, this dude is pretty sexy. A 4/4 body isn't anything to scoff at. He's got flash for combat tricks, and he has his ETB for hilarious post-combat pseudo-wiping.
As a general, he provides an open invitation to attack. Swing and see what happens. However, he doesn't actually do anything - his game plan is fairly obvious. Worse, if you aren't going to be winning using the combat step, he does nothing.
As part of the 99 he might be useful in certain underdeveloped metas. He's still just fine on his own, and once people know of his existence he provides a decent deterrent.
2/5
Kytheon, Hero of Akros: Gideon part one. Extremely easy to flip, with self-protection built in. Essentially gives you a 4/4 with some toys in a properly furnished deck.
He's far superior as a general to a 1v1 deck than anything else. His usefulness in a multiplayer scenario is questionable at best, although copying his posture is a sure way to get smacked by someone.
Unlike most other white dudes, this guy isn't great with equipment - once he becomes a planeswalker that's a lot of mana invested in not a lot of anything. If you want to dedicate yourself to a one-man army, there are better options, although most removal isn't an issue for Kytheon thanks to his three mana "screw you" effect.
2/5
Alhammarret, High Arbiter: Pretty hilarious ETB effect. If you can get an infinite blink engine going you can lock the table, and if you have blue mana you can just counter whatever you can't name. I forsee some pretty hilarious (for one person) lock decks with this guy, but I don't expect them to last for very long. His seven mana barrier means that there is plenty of time to just kill the dude, which is nice.
Don't think about dropping this guy in a regular 99. Unless you've got some specific niche lock deck going, you're better off paying seven mana to praise Norin further. There are better options.
2/5
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy: Solid filter either at the helm or in the 99. Specific decks looking for looting will go straight here - he's got added bonuses tacked on. Flipped Jace has a mostly useless +1, a semi-useful -3 (time warp go), and one of the dumbest mill-ults. Honestly, Jace's flipped form isn't great. Built around, it has the potential to do great things.
I feel Jace will see more 1v1 play than multiplayer. A 0/2 has its place in certain aggro metas. In those same metas, his +1 will actually do something useful. I generally just like the design behind this card. He's obvious and interesting all at the same time. Cool stuff.
3/5
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder: Holy efficient removal batman. Turns all of your removal spells into cantrips, and wipes into mass draws. A 6 mana 6/6 seems to be standard for black, and it's not as though black has difficulties reaching that number. He's a demon, which is relevant, and he's got flying, which is equally relevant.
You'll see both 1v1 and multiplayer lists pop up for this guy. You might even see him the 99 of certain decks. Kothophed is probably the most interesting black draw spell to pop up for some time now. Beware red and white players killing you with geddon.
4/5
Liliana, Heretical Healer: I've always liked Liliana as a character. The Healer has done nothing to change that.
At the first stage, Lili is an insanely good 2/3 for 3 with lifelink. There is really nothing else that can be said for that. Lifelink is underrated, and a solid 3 butt will survive most utility critter beats. This leaves big dudes. I heard black has removal. When you pop in another critter, Lili acts as both protection for that creature (not wanting lili to flip) as well as remaining true to your needs as a player. If you do choose to flip her, you still get a critter. This is awesome!
So let's see what she does flipped. +2 is a lili standard. You'll most likely be playing some black aggro deck in 1v1 with lili, and You won't have too many issues with shoving Bloodghasts into your graveyard. The first ability being a plus two is extra relevant because holy crap her -x is awesome. It's a no-strings-attached reanimate! You're playing black aggro with lili (right guys) so it'll be efficient and they'll be dead. Simply hitting the -2 button gives you bob back. And then you have the ult. If ***** dies, you're happy. Holy crap!
5/5 in 1v1, 3/5 in multiplayer.
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Don't even think about playing this in multiplayer. This is a 1v1 gal, plain and simple.
It's really easy to flip Chandra. Swing and then press the Lightning Bolt button. Once flipped, stab them for two more, or kill a critter that somehow decided it didn't want to block. Ulting with her is a great form of reach, but by that point they better be dead already.
Unfortunately you can't go infinite with her tap ability - wizards has decided that was Unfun (tm) and won't let you. At three mana you're looking at a point in mono red where you're looking for the end game, which is fine. If she had haste I'd give her the seal of instant generalship to any red 1v1 deck, but wisely wizards decided that haste was Unfun(tm) and did not include it. For spell-heavy aggro, go here.
It's a Lord, which could be useful, and gives you life, which isn't useful but could be. As a general, you've got much better choices for elf-ball decks, but in certain metas might be just the ticket. He's alright in the 99 for those same metas, but is once again shoe-horned into an elf-centric role. As he's only a 3/4 for four, green decks have superior options for Standard Beatsticks(tm) and won't really care, unless you're running 9+ mana elves. He may be okay in that case.
Can I just give a shout out to Wizard's naming team?
3/5
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: Don't be dumb. If you're running green and you like lands, you're playing Nissa in the 99.
B-b-b-but you should've had a swords to plowshares!
There is something to be said for spot removal. Everyone should deeply consider running it. If you're in a multi-colored deck, having a specific answer to a specific problem is a great way to ensure that it's not a problem. If your deck ceases to run effectively after tossing in 4 or 5 spot removal spells, then you need to drastically reconsider some card choices and you need to learn exactly what it is that makes your deck tick.
That being said, there is also something to be said for overly effective engines. An early Sol Ring turns the game less into a battle between players and more of a "my deck runs more efficiently than yours." The first one to gain the largest advantage from having two free mana wins. It's really difficult to come back from a turn 2 fact or fiction generated from a permanent resource. It compounds your advantage far too easily. I don't like Sol Ring as a card, but you've got to admire the sheer power that it has in nearly any deck.
"Naw, I just get a kick, out of going to tournaments with folks who take the game super seriously, and I do things a bit off. Like playing a slightly off version of decks with a few cards that are actually game breakingly good against stuff I'd usually do badly against. I usually drop after the first round, but selling my car to buy these cards was totally worth it."
This is how I imagine it like, 6 hours later.
I think that is an actual Gaka quote.
Astral Steel Storm, Legacy PTQ top 16. Never forget.
Any thoughts on Sword of the Animist? The trigger is on attack, so you still get the land if you equip to Norin and swing.
This is the wrong kind of ramp for Norin. You do get the trigger when attacking with Norin, but you need to spend mana to do so. Early on, that mana is better spent advancing the board. Later on, you don't need the mana.
This would be ok in something like Godo, but for Norin i think it's too cute of an interaction for this specific build. Other than the ramp, SoA doesn't really do anything useful. The +1/+1 isn't gamebreaking and it simply costs too much to get going. Four mana for the first land? Kinda steep.
Stifling an LED is as close to heroin as I'll ever get.
So I was playing Spanish Inquisition, the turn-one kill storm deck in legacy, against Doomsday combo. He has basically no way to do anything to me barring a turn 1 discard effect, or a silence mid-combo, but his opener of Usea - made both of those options bad. Basically, unless he brainstorms into a one-of force or something, I win, right?
So I go, and am pretty wary about what he might have. I try to bait out any interaction, and decide to play around daze. I don't know what this guy is running. Go for my first draw spell, and he lets it through. Okay, I guess he doesn't have any counters? Tentatively go all-in on another D4, and he lets it go. Ok, I guess I win. LED -> Infernal Tutor, crack LED. OK?
Yup.
Sure thing. Storm count 11, Tendrils of Agony. I'm all ready to shake his hand for a wonderfully played game, when he decided it's time to tap that Usea and reveal the SOLE COUNTERSPELL IN HIS DAMN DECK .... Flusterstorm.
I've never come so close to flipping the table. I did, however, knock over my chair in my shock and awe of standing.
Like, seriously? Mainboard Flusterstorm? One-of? In Doomsday? And he HAS IT?
It has zero chance of getting emergency banned. It has as close to near zero chance as possible of ever getting banned.
Yeah, I think that even *I* would start to lose faith in you guys if you banned it.
You know what a nine mana mass reset that advances the board state says to me?
Ban me..!
Dude, you can't just mess up a two hour long game like that. It's not cool. We spent so much time sitting on our thumbs and this one guy comes along and spends only nine mana and just ruins it all. I mean, come on - I was clearly going to win next turn until this happened and now someone else won.
Ended up 2-1, won two packs. My pool way horrible monetarily, with that mythic Archive being the best card. Still waiting for the round to end so I get my prize packs. Those will probably be *****ty as well because that's how I roll.
You need to do what I do at every pre-release, and go purely for ties. Draft the derpiest, slowest possible deck you can, and screw up the standings as much as possible.
The problem with Foundry is that you're paying 5 mana plus the actual land (so effectively six) for only a pair of fliers. And you can only realistically do this once. Let's also point out that this land produces colorless instead of red. It's just not worth it.
Flameshadow Conjuring could be potentially good, yet i feel that it has a better home in Kresh or some other "creature matters" deck.
I don't feel that this is really the case; it's another one of those cards that when the dust settles, gives us a lot more output of useful triggers to work with.
Well the rule has always been when they cost that much they should be winning by themselves. That clearly does not meet that requirement. At minimum it requires something with etb triggers in play so you can duplicate Norin. And extra red mana every time you want to use it. And probably playing other creatures as well to duplicate them too.
All in all feels very win more to me. But gaka seems to like it so I'm sure he'll test the hell out of it and give us a full report.
Gaka still plays Conjurer's Closet according to the front page. This is a win-more card.
Each players have their own preferences when playing a deck. I can play Jareth in my mono-white only because it's the first rare I opened in a pack, even if it's not really good. It all comes down to personal choices and this is what defines the format. This is why EDH is so cool. If you like abusing Myr Battlesphere, then you will like the interaction with Closet and Flameshadow, especially with Ogre Battledriver and Kiki-Jiki.
Pia and Kiran is the only interesting card in this set in my opinion. It's a really good card, it's just a matter of theme/flavour at that point, because it's definitely superior to the 4-CMC goblin alternative, and it can give serious competition to Mogg War Marshal, Goblin Marshal and Siege-Gang Commander too. I'm really starting to consider it, flying creatures are just good in this format, and I probably don't need to have that many tutorable goblins doing nearly all the same thing. It also generates artifacts, which is also a good thing in this deck. Tutorable with Imperial Recruiter and Gamble, and the activated ability is just a really good and relevant bonus too. This could make Ugin's Nexus more playable you know, having Welder and Daretti already.
I play Conjurer's Closet because it's awesome. Something something value, something something artifact.
Pie and Cake are really the most interesting card in terms of what we value the most. It's a token generator that does something else. Those tokens fly, which as mentioned are absolutely huge, and those tokens can be sacrificed for The Greater Good (the greater good) in a fiery ball of fire. I really do have a certain eloquence about me.
So far as the "win by itself" rule - Pie and Cake definitely count. Dropping it gives you instant access to on-demand removal that synergizes with Confusion in the Ranks and Genesis Chamber. Basically it's a human Siege-Gang. The more I talk about it the more I want it now, and the hungrier I get...
My biggest question for it is how the deck will progress from here. We're slowly, slowly approaching to an artifact renewal theme, and I wonder if this style is superior to Krenko's goblin spam backup-main-plan.
In terms of Flameshadow's usefulness - Once again we're confronted with the question of "does it win by itself" ... the answer is certainly no, but the answer in magical christmas land is yes. What it does is add double the value to all of your threats, of which we run many. Arguably the constant cost is a huge downside, but I really like the potential gains. See Closet.
I'm not going to outright dismiss it until I try it, but damn if I don't like what it can do.
I used to have the same problem. I had a dozen or so decks lying around, and i finally worked myself up into dismantling them, so i have far fewer decks (many failed efforts) lying around.
This is literally so they can't get sued by either the thief or the worker if anything happens and is an extremely common practice.
Except then you're in cinci, which is torture all its own.
It's a bit more Top reliant than some other DD decks. There is a sacland doomsday list that's pretty good for learning how to play the style.
Basically it tells you what type DD you're playing.
You don't. Or else you'd be seeing double LED -> Ad Naus.
You cast the spell, utilizing the mana from whatever other sources. Only then can you activate LED, it's a mana ability with a unique timing restriction, and a cost that happens to be the loss of your hand.
A fetch's ability is an Activated Ability. These are good to stifle. You're getting a land, you're not using the fetch for mana.
LED's ability is a mana ability - it's an ability that gives you mana. It just so happens that the cost for it is to discard your whole hand.
Hixus, Prison Warden: As a straight up beater, this dude is pretty sexy. A 4/4 body isn't anything to scoff at. He's got flash for combat tricks, and he has his ETB for hilarious post-combat pseudo-wiping.
As a general, he provides an open invitation to attack. Swing and see what happens. However, he doesn't actually do anything - his game plan is fairly obvious. Worse, if you aren't going to be winning using the combat step, he does nothing.
As part of the 99 he might be useful in certain underdeveloped metas. He's still just fine on his own, and once people know of his existence he provides a decent deterrent.
2/5
Kytheon, Hero of Akros: Gideon part one. Extremely easy to flip, with self-protection built in. Essentially gives you a 4/4 with some toys in a properly furnished deck.
He's far superior as a general to a 1v1 deck than anything else. His usefulness in a multiplayer scenario is questionable at best, although copying his posture is a sure way to get smacked by someone.
Unlike most other white dudes, this guy isn't great with equipment - once he becomes a planeswalker that's a lot of mana invested in not a lot of anything. If you want to dedicate yourself to a one-man army, there are better options, although most removal isn't an issue for Kytheon thanks to his three mana "screw you" effect.
2/5
Alhammarret, High Arbiter: Pretty hilarious ETB effect. If you can get an infinite blink engine going you can lock the table, and if you have blue mana you can just counter whatever you can't name. I forsee some pretty hilarious (for one person) lock decks with this guy, but I don't expect them to last for very long. His seven mana barrier means that there is plenty of time to just kill the dude, which is nice.
Don't think about dropping this guy in a regular 99. Unless you've got some specific niche lock deck going, you're better off paying seven mana to praise Norin further. There are better options.
2/5
Jace, Vryn's Prodigy: Solid filter either at the helm or in the 99. Specific decks looking for looting will go straight here - he's got added bonuses tacked on. Flipped Jace has a mostly useless +1, a semi-useful -3 (time warp go), and one of the dumbest mill-ults. Honestly, Jace's flipped form isn't great. Built around, it has the potential to do great things.
I feel Jace will see more 1v1 play than multiplayer. A 0/2 has its place in certain aggro metas. In those same metas, his +1 will actually do something useful. I generally just like the design behind this card. He's obvious and interesting all at the same time. Cool stuff.
3/5
Kothophed, Soul Hoarder: Holy efficient removal batman. Turns all of your removal spells into cantrips, and wipes into mass draws. A 6 mana 6/6 seems to be standard for black, and it's not as though black has difficulties reaching that number. He's a demon, which is relevant, and he's got flying, which is equally relevant.
You'll see both 1v1 and multiplayer lists pop up for this guy. You might even see him the 99 of certain decks. Kothophed is probably the most interesting black draw spell to pop up for some time now. Beware red and white players killing you with geddon.
4/5
Liliana, Heretical Healer: I've always liked Liliana as a character. The Healer has done nothing to change that.
At the first stage, Lili is an insanely good 2/3 for 3 with lifelink. There is really nothing else that can be said for that. Lifelink is underrated, and a solid 3 butt will survive most utility critter beats. This leaves big dudes. I heard black has removal. When you pop in another critter, Lili acts as both protection for that creature (not wanting lili to flip) as well as remaining true to your needs as a player. If you do choose to flip her, you still get a critter. This is awesome!
So let's see what she does flipped. +2 is a lili standard. You'll most likely be playing some black aggro deck in 1v1 with lili, and You won't have too many issues with shoving Bloodghasts into your graveyard. The first ability being a plus two is extra relevant because holy crap her -x is awesome. It's a no-strings-attached reanimate! You're playing black aggro with lili (right guys) so it'll be efficient and they'll be dead. Simply hitting the -2 button gives you bob back. And then you have the ult. If ***** dies, you're happy. Holy crap!
5/5 in 1v1, 3/5 in multiplayer.
Chandra, Fire of Kaladesh: Don't even think about playing this in multiplayer. This is a 1v1 gal, plain and simple.
It's really easy to flip Chandra. Swing and then press the Lightning Bolt button. Once flipped, stab them for two more, or kill a critter that somehow decided it didn't want to block. Ulting with her is a great form of reach, but by that point they better be dead already.
Unfortunately you can't go infinite with her tap ability - wizards has decided that was Unfun (tm) and won't let you. At three mana you're looking at a point in mono red where you're looking for the end game, which is fine. If she had haste I'd give her the seal of instant generalship to any red 1v1 deck, but wisely wizards decided that haste was Unfun(tm) and did not include it. For spell-heavy aggro, go here.
3/5 in 1v1, 1/5 in multiplayer
Pia and Kiran Nalaar: I put Pie and Cake in Norin.
5/5
Dwynen, Gilt-Leaf Daen: An interesting elf card that... gives you reach. ha. ha.
It's a Lord, which could be useful, and gives you life, which isn't useful but could be. As a general, you've got much better choices for elf-ball decks, but in certain metas might be just the ticket. He's alright in the 99 for those same metas, but is once again shoe-horned into an elf-centric role. As he's only a 3/4 for four, green decks have superior options for Standard Beatsticks(tm) and won't really care, unless you're running 9+ mana elves. He may be okay in that case.
Can I just give a shout out to Wizard's naming team?
3/5
Nissa, Vastwood Seer: Don't be dumb. If you're running green and you like lands, you're playing Nissa in the 99.
5/5
There is something to be said for spot removal. Everyone should deeply consider running it. If you're in a multi-colored deck, having a specific answer to a specific problem is a great way to ensure that it's not a problem. If your deck ceases to run effectively after tossing in 4 or 5 spot removal spells, then you need to drastically reconsider some card choices and you need to learn exactly what it is that makes your deck tick.
That being said, there is also something to be said for overly effective engines. An early Sol Ring turns the game less into a battle between players and more of a "my deck runs more efficiently than yours." The first one to gain the largest advantage from having two free mana wins. It's really difficult to come back from a turn 2 fact or fiction generated from a permanent resource. It compounds your advantage far too easily. I don't like Sol Ring as a card, but you've got to admire the sheer power that it has in nearly any deck.
Astral Steel Storm, Legacy PTQ top 16. Never forget.
Yup, He's in there. Daretti is sweet.
This is the wrong kind of ramp for Norin. You do get the trigger when attacking with Norin, but you need to spend mana to do so. Early on, that mana is better spent advancing the board. Later on, you don't need the mana.
This would be ok in something like Godo, but for Norin i think it's too cute of an interaction for this specific build. Other than the ramp, SoA doesn't really do anything useful. The +1/+1 isn't gamebreaking and it simply costs too much to get going. Four mana for the first land? Kinda steep.
So I was playing Spanish Inquisition, the turn-one kill storm deck in legacy, against Doomsday combo. He has basically no way to do anything to me barring a turn 1 discard effect, or a silence mid-combo, but his opener of Usea - made both of those options bad. Basically, unless he brainstorms into a one-of force or something, I win, right?
So I go, and am pretty wary about what he might have. I try to bait out any interaction, and decide to play around daze. I don't know what this guy is running. Go for my first draw spell, and he lets it through. Okay, I guess he doesn't have any counters? Tentatively go all-in on another D4, and he lets it go. Ok, I guess I win. LED -> Infernal Tutor, crack LED. OK?
Yup.
Sure thing. Storm count 11, Tendrils of Agony. I'm all ready to shake his hand for a wonderfully played game, when he decided it's time to tap that Usea and reveal the SOLE COUNTERSPELL IN HIS DAMN DECK .... Flusterstorm.
I've never come so close to flipping the table. I did, however, knock over my chair in my shock and awe of standing.
Like, seriously? Mainboard Flusterstorm? One-of? In Doomsday? And he HAS IT?
Damn it.
You know what a nine mana mass reset that advances the board state says to me?
Ban me..!
Dude, you can't just mess up a two hour long game like that. It's not cool. We spent so much time sitting on our thumbs and this one guy comes along and spends only nine mana and just ruins it all. I mean, come on - I was clearly going to win next turn until this happened and now someone else won.
You need to do what I do at every pre-release, and go purely for ties. Draft the derpiest, slowest possible deck you can, and screw up the standings as much as possible.
Innistrad Memory's Journey + Runic Repetition + Gnaw to the Bone 0-0-5 never forget.
The problem with Foundry is that you're paying 5 mana plus the actual land (so effectively six) for only a pair of fliers. And you can only realistically do this once. Let's also point out that this land produces colorless instead of red. It's just not worth it.
I play Conjurer's Closet because it's awesome. Something something value, something something artifact.
Pie and Cake are really the most interesting card in terms of what we value the most. It's a token generator that does something else. Those tokens fly, which as mentioned are absolutely huge, and those tokens can be sacrificed for The Greater Good (the greater good) in a fiery ball of fire. I really do have a certain eloquence about me.
So far as the "win by itself" rule - Pie and Cake definitely count. Dropping it gives you instant access to on-demand removal that synergizes with Confusion in the Ranks and Genesis Chamber. Basically it's a human Siege-Gang. The more I talk about it the more I want it now, and the hungrier I get...
My biggest question for it is how the deck will progress from here. We're slowly, slowly approaching to an artifact renewal theme, and I wonder if this style is superior to Krenko's goblin spam backup-main-plan.
In terms of Flameshadow's usefulness - Once again we're confronted with the question of "does it win by itself" ... the answer is certainly no, but the answer in magical christmas land is yes. What it does is add double the value to all of your threats, of which we run many. Arguably the constant cost is a huge downside, but I really like the potential gains. See Closet.
I'm not going to outright dismiss it until I try it, but damn if I don't like what it can do.
Serrated Arrows to the Krark's Thumb...