I apologize, but I am not going to have the time to devote to this game that I thought I would. I do not want to make the game suffer, or be hounded about my activity level, so I think that I should get out now while it will cause a minimum amount of disruption.
The following posts are all commentary or questions that look to progress the game, or put more simply, me doing more than "just defending myself":
215
240
256
262
265
268
273
275
Since you provided post numbers, I will take another look
215: this is before the time-frame that I am talking about
240: commenting on you own wagon & smearing your main accuser
256: I suppose this meets the bare minimum of the point you are trying to make
262: not seeing how this furthers the game, but at least you are not being defensive I guess
265: random question
268: questioning an accuser
273: repeating your previous question
275: attempt to discredit everyone suspicious of you as scumbuddies
All but 3 of those are in some way defensive. Let me be clear, I am not saying that you should not be doing these things, or that I find them scummy in and of themselves, but it does support my conclusion that you seem to have lost interest in much else. I also feel the need to point out that your list of cherry-picked posts is still a very low proportion of the posts you made during that time
I actually agree with D_V that Zomg's townread on him is certainly questionable, especially if D_V is telling the truth about his neutral claim.
Can you explain how the neutral claim is relevant to zomgarcwind's read when it happened after it?
@Cantripmancer: I have neither the time nor the desire to get into a quote war with you. If you have points to make that I have not adequately addressed, please re-post them in a concise manner and I will respond
Just as you said, because I don't want the day to end before scarbo and kitty get to post anything. Maybe it is Rodemy's aggressive attitude that leads mr to believe that Ghost is about to be lynched. Maybe it is just my laziness and a lack of things to say.
To me Ghost is slightly town, but we will have to see his role. IF he is town, however, I can totally see how Rodemy is scum, which I will explain sometime around the 30th.
You are not answering the question, just repeating. Why do you think they will not get to post anything? Why do you think one person, however aggressive, is capable of ending the day? In short, what indication do you have that there is anything to worry that much about?
It comes across more as wanting so seem worried than genuine concern
The last part of the post reads like you already know Ghosting's alignment, just not his role, and trying to set up a chain-lynch on Rodemy
I was not suggesting otherwise, just wanted to know what you are basing that read on.
The more I read it, the more I feel that Omega's questions sound weird.
Omega, how does this question help contribute to the overall analysis?
In what way does it sound weird?
I asked because I wanted to know what you were basing this read on; this is literally what I said in the post you quoted.
@Cantripmancer: this is a large post to respond to, so excuse me not quoting it directly:
Rhand, am I correct that you are saying Ghosting is opportunistic scum for attacking Rodemy? If so, why are you agreeing with him and going after Omega? Do you think Ghosting is bussing?
How effective did you expect this line of questioning to be when you provided him a safe answer?
His opening posts of 39-40 are a bit odd, as he's barning opposing views, but phone-posting, so whatever, but:
@Omega: Why is it a good thing that you checked "today"? Why would it have made a difference if you had checked later?
I quoted the wrong post by mistake the first time, because I was posting on my phone (which hates this site); this seems obvious.
It is a good thing I checked that day because the game started, and I had not checked on the status in at least a week. It would have made a difference by being that much more time before noticing and posting in the game. This is not as obvious, but still seems fairly clear.
Why are you trying to paint this as scummy with weak language like "odd"? What do you find "odd" about it anyway?
In #40 he naked barns Rod's attack on Ophidia without a vote or additional input/explanation, which is never helpful.
Not helpful? Fair enough I suppose, though you would go on to do the same multiple times:
I feel like by #80, Ophidia's town status is pretty likely and obvious, so Omega's questioning of Vaimes' town!clearing Ophidia feels like beating a dead horse.
Asking him to explain his reads is relevant regardless of what anyone else thinks of the other person's alignment
#83 is a very weak jab at Ophidia for agreeing with someone Ophidia thinks is scum (Rod). Ophidia's not agreeing with Rod's reads or opinions; she's agreeing with (rather basic) good gameplay.
I agree that it is basic good gameplay, that is precisely my point.
It is such basic gameplay that it seemed like a strange place to not just say that, instead of claiming to take the word of the person you are most suspicious of. It make no sense and comes across as artificial
This is one of the reasons that I find the way people answer questions at least as informative as their actual answer, and one of the reasons that people who are not liking my questions should try to look deeper at why I might be asking.
#105 feels like a smear on Hunt, like Omega's reaching for a reason to cast suspicion.
Again, just because I ask for clarification on something does not mean I necessarily find it scummy. How is asking for clarification "smearing", when at no point did I even imply that it was scummy?
It does not seem like a great idea, and I wanted to know why he was so eager to stick his neck out for something he seemed so unsure of.
@Omega: In #110, who (Ophidia or Rodemy) were you hoping to gain insight into with this question, and what did you learn?
Both actually; Ophidia has been so strongly against Rodemy (who I was still trying to get a handle on) up to that point, and I wanted to know what specifically this 180 is based on. By the way, #79 & #103 are barely 2 hours apart, during which he also claims to have been playing Dark Souls.
As for what I learned, his answer was not very satisfactory, but I did not feel the need to press him for more as I have been drawing my own conclusions about Rodemy's towniness.
• #133 rings huge bells for me. Omega quotes Ghosting and makes a very generic "this is good, bro" statement, then highlights one of the safer parts (Rodemy's alignment). The other parts he thinks are "good" are:
- Ophidia's town-status (which Omega seems to disagree with previously) and Ghosting's reasoning, which is similar to Vaimes' reasoning, which Omega hasn't seemed to buy thus far.
- A generic "Zomg's post was interesting; leaning town".
- Hunt being town.
This just seems so subtle. Slight buddying followed by picking out one element so that it sounds like there's substance behind the post. And if he wants to reverse his stance on any of the other parts, he just handwaves the situation with "well, I didn't mean I agreed with everything Ghosting said, just that it was 'good'".
I agree with you somewhat here; I noticed that he had posted while I was working on my previous post, and I wanted to comment on it quickly before I had to go, but I definitely should taken a little longer to elaborate on what I meant. It certainly was not a blanket /barn on his entire post as you suggest, or else I would have just said that.
As you do go on to say, I did not agree with everything he said, I meant that it was good in that he came in with his first substantial post and made some insights of his own instead of just going with what others are saying, and that he backed them up with specific posts, which also helped sway me on Huntzilla being town.
As an aside, you seem to have a problem with begging the question and putting words in people's mouths as you question them, you have done it several times already. This allows to you to sit back, wait for an answer, say "I knew you would say that", and act like you have caught someone.
I commented on his thoughts on Rodemy specifically, because that was more or less the reason that I was already coming to to the same conclusion.
Let's see what some pressure in this direction gets us.
Not much, because there is not much there.
I am not getting mafia vibes from you, you seem to be actively trying to figure things out and be helpful. I obviously think you are being misguided on this.
I've really liked Vaimes' posts since then, especially the stance on Oph (cause I could totally see scum capitalizing on a perceived easy lynch).
Explain how it could have been "a perceived easy lynch" when he is overwhelmingly seen as town
@Omega: I initially had stuff written out here, but realized you haven't actually responded to the votes on you yet, so I'm going to wait.
You had already written "stuff" (I assume question or points against me?) but deleted it in favor of waiting until I address the existing "stuff" about me?
I do not believe you; care to guess why?
You have something similar multiple times (#79, #103, #227, #231), completely unnecessarily; no one has even been near claim range. We are all aware that some people are still out for the holidays, that a few people have barely posted at all yet, and that it would be a bad idea to rush into anything;
Why do you feel the need to seem so concerned about it?
I alluded to a few of my reads during this post, but a full town/scum list will have another day or two. The last thing I have time to comment on tonight is Ghosting:
I went on at length about his first real post, and I obviously disagree with his points against me, as they are basically the same as Cantripmancer's; the first thing that interests me is his reaction after he starts getting a little pressure applied. Starting after posts #221/225, he starts becoming super defensive, flailing against his accusers, triple and quadruple posting frantically, and basically forgetting to do anything other than fight back against the couple of votes on him. It really comes across as desperate, and that Rodemy's accusation of "spiraling" is correct. I do not even think the original point that has them so worked up against him is that great, but his response has turned me off so much I consider myself voting for him, pending a votecount (I was going to provide post numbers in support of this part, but it is getting late, and I have already been working on this post for a couple of hours)
I know it hasn't been that long since Omega posted, but he should come back and respond.
I have been very busy today, was unable to get caught up with the thread until literally this moment, and do not have time to respond to anything relevant now. I am only posting now to give notice that I will most likely be even more busy over the next 3-4 days, and unable to read or post at all.
Anything I need to address will have to wait until early next week; so cool it until then
Pick one of my reads that you disagree with the most and talk to me about why that might be the case.
I do not recall saying that I disagree with your reads other than the 3 that I specifically mentioned:
Huntzilla - looking better to me
Ophidia - your defense of him amounts to meta and I do not find that particularly compelling; I really do not like his opaque "what do you think of me?" question to me, and a few other things rubbed me the wrong way
zomgarcwind - I have no idea how that post merits "leaning-town-but-not-really-sure"
The one's where he's prodding around, asking questions.
I liked 47, how he described his thought process for how his read shifted on Ophidia and Rod.
I took a look at the posts of his mentioned by Ghosting and feel better about him
Do you think it's better to withhold everything you're thinking until you're more certain, or to let everyone know where you stand at a given moment and where you're (thinking of) going?
I think that it is highly dependent upon the individual and the circumstance. I find that my playstyle (asking questions and seeing what the answers and reactions turn up) is more effective when I do not tip my hand too early, and my natural inclination is to play things close to the vest anyway.
That being said, once I find something worth taking a better look at I will definitely point it out, and I am always willing to answer questions about my thoughts on any specific player/issue.
Fairly certain Ophidia is town because I planned on doing the exact same thing he did. Also, he has a mentor and did it, before asking the mentor, further making me believe he’s town. Sure he could do that as scum, but he has a lot less to gain and much more to risk. As a noob (if you’re not a noob, my apologies), claiming VT straight up seems more likely than scum, which I imagine you’d be more paranoid and cautious first run around.
Post #37 by shadowlancer read interestingly to me, but lean town.
Post #44: At this point I actually think Rodemy is just eager town trying to actively hunt and getting a lot of attention too quickly for something I could totally see myself doing as town. Earlier his posts seemed like scum trying to create an easy mislynch, but as it progressed it seems much more like eager town theory-gaming and tunneling. More interested in Rhand and how quickly he jumped on and supported the Rodemy wagon. Going to look over that in a bit.
Huntz reading town for active posts like #101 and #118. Overall attitude and genuine lines of questioning come off as inherently town.
this is a good post; I particularly agree regarding Rodemy
Red Omega, seeing that you asked us all these questions
get used to it, that is what I do
What is your opinion on:
1. D_V's accusations on atog
Atogaholic's vote looks like standard RVS voting, shadowlancerx made a nearly identical vote ~45 minutes later
his next post does come across as opportunistic, but I would like to hear what he has to say in defense; I do not think it warrants a vote in and of itself
2. Vaimes' support on me
I am not sure that I understand what you are asking; do you want to know if I think that it is convincing or genuine?
I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but his accuracy is not necessarily something I am sold on, since it basically comes down to meta.
either way, your question comes off as extremely self-conscious and fishing for town-cred; it is pretty gross really
3. lynching Rodemy
I think that I already addressed this, unless there other points against him that I missed
I thought zomg’s RVS vote was really funny, but unfortunately, NAI. I’m still going to put him in my leaning-town-but-not-really-sure group.
I see you asking a lot of questions. How have the answers helped you in figuring out who the mafia are?
I always ask a lot of questions, I think that it is an effective way to generate discussion and get a better idea of players' motivations. Asking for clarification on something does not necessarily mean that find it scummy though.
To answer your question, I'm trying to get a better handle on a few people, but not anything I feel sure enough about to call out as of yet.
After rereading the thread and the threads Rodemy played in, this Rodemy feels very much town for me
Can you elaborate on what made you feel this way?
Rodemy is aggressively trying to lynch someone every game when he was town. Then the mafia convinced town to lynch him, like in Janken. Mafia Rodemy is similarly aggressive but lurks a lot more and generally does not contribute to town's progress.
@Mod: sorry, but I need to /replace
But you think he would as town? Can you explain the difference?
@Ophidia: You should answer these questions that you "missed"
Since you provided post numbers, I will take another look
215: this is before the time-frame that I am talking about
240: commenting on you own wagon & smearing your main accuser
256: I suppose this meets the bare minimum of the point you are trying to make
262: not seeing how this furthers the game, but at least you are not being defensive I guess
265: random question
268: questioning an accuser
273: repeating your previous question
275: attempt to discredit everyone suspicious of you as scumbuddies
All but 3 of those are in some way defensive. Let me be clear, I am not saying that you should not be doing these things, or that I find them scummy in and of themselves, but it does support my conclusion that you seem to have lost interest in much else. I also feel the need to point out that your list of cherry-picked posts is still a very low proportion of the posts you made during that time
Can you explain how the neutral claim is relevant to zomgarcwind's read when it happened after it?
@Cantripmancer: I have neither the time nor the desire to get into a quote war with you. If you have points to make that I have not adequately addressed, please re-post them in a concise manner and I will respond
You are not answering the question, just repeating. Why do you think they will not get to post anything? Why do you think one person, however aggressive, is capable of ending the day? In short, what indication do you have that there is anything to worry that much about?
It comes across more as wanting so seem worried than genuine concern
The last part of the post reads like you already know Ghosting's alignment, just not his role, and trying to set up a chain-lynch on Rodemy
Who would you consider that to be?
Is that really the extent of your opinions about the game?
"We"? When have you said anything about lynching me? When have you said anything stronger than "sounds weird" about me?
Or Ghosting for that matter?
In what way does it sound weird?
I asked because I wanted to know what you were basing this read on; this is literally what I said in the post you quoted.
@Cantripmancer: this is a large post to respond to, so excuse me not quoting it directly:
How effective did you expect this line of questioning to be when you provided him a safe answer?
I quoted the wrong post by mistake the first time, because I was posting on my phone (which hates this site); this seems obvious.
It is a good thing I checked that day because the game started, and I had not checked on the status in at least a week. It would have made a difference by being that much more time before noticing and posting in the game. This is not as obvious, but still seems fairly clear.
Why are you trying to paint this as scummy with weak language like "odd"? What do you find "odd" about it anyway?
Not helpful? Fair enough I suppose, though you would go on to do the same multiple times:
Still want to paint it as scummy?
Asking him to explain his reads is relevant regardless of what anyone else thinks of the other person's alignment
I agree that it is basic good gameplay, that is precisely my point.
It is such basic gameplay that it seemed like a strange place to not just say that, instead of claiming to take the word of the person you are most suspicious of. It make no sense and comes across as artificial
This is one of the reasons that I find the way people answer questions at least as informative as their actual answer, and one of the reasons that people who are not liking my questions should try to look deeper at why I might be asking.
Again, just because I ask for clarification on something does not mean I necessarily find it scummy. How is asking for clarification "smearing", when at no point did I even imply that it was scummy?
It does not seem like a great idea, and I wanted to know why he was so eager to stick his neck out for something he seemed so unsure of.
Both actually; Ophidia has been so strongly against Rodemy (who I was still trying to get a handle on) up to that point, and I wanted to know what specifically this 180 is based on. By the way, #79 & #103 are barely 2 hours apart, during which he also claims to have been playing Dark Souls.
As for what I learned, his answer was not very satisfactory, but I did not feel the need to press him for more as I have been drawing my own conclusions about Rodemy's towniness.
I agree with you somewhat here; I noticed that he had posted while I was working on my previous post, and I wanted to comment on it quickly before I had to go, but I definitely should taken a little longer to elaborate on what I meant. It certainly was not a blanket /barn on his entire post as you suggest, or else I would have just said that.
As you do go on to say, I did not agree with everything he said, I meant that it was good in that he came in with his first substantial post and made some insights of his own instead of just going with what others are saying, and that he backed them up with specific posts, which also helped sway me on Huntzilla being town.
As an aside, you seem to have a problem with begging the question and putting words in people's mouths as you question them, you have done it several times already. This allows to you to sit back, wait for an answer, say "I knew you would say that", and act like you have caught someone.
I commented on his thoughts on Rodemy specifically, because that was more or less the reason that I was already coming to to the same conclusion.
Not much, because there is not much there.
I am not getting mafia vibes from you, you seem to be actively trying to figure things out and be helpful. I obviously think you are being misguided on this.
Explain how it could have been "a perceived easy lynch" when he is overwhelmingly seen as town
You had already written "stuff" (I assume question or points against me?) but deleted it in favor of waiting until I address the existing "stuff" about me?
I do not believe you; care to guess why?
You have something similar multiple times (#79, #103, #227, #231), completely unnecessarily; no one has even been near claim range. We are all aware that some people are still out for the holidays, that a few people have barely posted at all yet, and that it would be a bad idea to rush into anything;
Why do you feel the need to seem so concerned about it?
I alluded to a few of my reads during this post, but a full town/scum list will have another day or two. The last thing I have time to comment on tonight is Ghosting:
I went on at length about his first real post, and I obviously disagree with his points against me, as they are basically the same as Cantripmancer's; the first thing that interests me is his reaction after he starts getting a little pressure applied. Starting after posts #221/225, he starts becoming super defensive, flailing against his accusers, triple and quadruple posting frantically, and basically forgetting to do anything other than fight back against the couple of votes on him. It really comes across as desperate, and that Rodemy's accusation of "spiraling" is correct. I do not even think the original point that has them so worked up against him is that great, but his response has turned me off so much I consider myself voting for him, pending a votecount (I was going to provide post numbers in support of this part, but it is getting late, and I have already been working on this post for a couple of hours)
I have been very busy today, was unable to get caught up with the thread until literally this moment, and do not have time to respond to anything relevant now. I am only posting now to give notice that I will most likely be even more busy over the next 3-4 days, and unable to read or post at all.
Anything I need to address will have to wait until early next week; so cool it until then
I do not recall saying that I disagree with your reads other than the 3 that I specifically mentioned:
Huntzilla - looking better to me
Ophidia - your defense of him amounts to meta and I do not find that particularly compelling; I really do not like his opaque "what do you think of me?" question to me, and a few other things rubbed me the wrong way
zomgarcwind - I have no idea how that post merits "leaning-town-but-not-really-sure"
I took a look at the posts of his mentioned by Ghosting and feel better about him
I think that it is highly dependent upon the individual and the circumstance. I find that my playstyle (asking questions and seeing what the answers and reactions turn up) is more effective when I do not tip my hand too early, and my natural inclination is to play things close to the vest anyway.
That being said, once I find something worth taking a better look at I will definitely point it out, and I am always willing to answer questions about my thoughts on any specific player/issue.
this is a good post; I particularly agree regarding Rodemy
It seems odd for town to vouch for someone else this early on with that little conviction
get used to it, that is what I do
Atogaholic's vote looks like standard RVS voting, shadowlancerx made a nearly identical vote ~45 minutes later
his next post does come across as opportunistic, but I would like to hear what he has to say in defense; I do not think it warrants a vote in and of itself
I am not sure that I understand what you are asking; do you want to know if I think that it is convincing or genuine?
I have no reason to doubt his sincerity, but his accuracy is not necessarily something I am sold on, since it basically comes down to meta.
either way, your question comes off as extremely self-conscious and fishing for town-cred; it is pretty gross really
I think that I already addressed this, unless there other points against him that I missed
such as?
I always ask a lot of questions, I think that it is an effective way to generate discussion and get a better idea of players' motivations. Asking for clarification on something does not necessarily mean that find it scummy though.
To answer your question, I'm trying to get a better handle on a few people, but not anything I feel sure enough about to call out as of yet.
I was not suggesting otherwise, just wanted to know what you are basing that read on.
How large of a reference pool is that based on?
Can you elaborate on what made you feel this way?
Why vouch for something that you're unsure of?
Thanks