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    posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    Ok, so I switched over to my computer so I can type up a long response. I know Ive been pretty dormant but I've played extesively with Bloodbraid elf and Jace back in the day, so I can save you guys some leg work in this.



    This unban is ultimately good for us. Zoo has always preyed on control and tempo decks... Tempo has popped up and disappeared in modern often but control has never really been good. This will solve alot of their problems, so ironically, alot of ours. Ive been saying for years that Zoo's biggest weakness is control sucks.

    All of our cards are all good vs Jace. Literally all of them.



    The meat of it. Bloodbraid is good. Very good. But don't be fooled, she isn't absolutely disgusting in our deck. When she is hitting 3-2 drops and absurd swingy spells she is... which means shes better in jund. BB into bolt is aggressive for us, but BB into lillina is #broke. BBE is an aggressive card, who is best played late game when both players have run low on resources. Often we run low, play her and the Opponent can still 2 for 1 us fine because they haven't and she didnt do much at all. But she does help make closing out the game better for us.

    My main point is... dont overestimate Bloodbraid Elf. Its a very good card, but isn't absolutely broken for us. Her role should (and always should be) to close the game. Those times she recovers our board after a wipe, or is the perfect blocker nabs us a perfect combo piece, are few and far between. But she does do that one job, closing the game, better than any card aside from maybe elspeth and siege rhino.

    Now lets get to the good stuff about her since we can be a little realistic now we know her limitations. As Ive said, she closes the game on turn 4 and is broken on turn 3. You should be playing her in all versions of zoo now as a top ender... but not always a 4 of. In some of the lower curved lists that number should be 2. In some of the zoo lists that have only around 4-5 3 drops, she should be a 3 of. In any list running 4 Noble Hierarchs, she should be a 4 of, as turn 3ing her is absurd.

    Zoo also can go back to some value creatures unless you are balls to the walls blitz. Pridemage, Thalia, voice, ooze all get better because of her. As do all sideboard cards. She increases the chance you will hit them. So Id change our sides to be more narrow but powerful answers. Run stuff like blood moon over edge or ghost quarter. You have more "draw power" and more pressure now, you just need to patch bad match ups, not prep for overall weakness now that just attacking can win you the game.

    Id also tend to add more burn when I have elf. Helix for example is great. Bloodbraid really removes the reactiveness zoo can sometimes pack. You arent going to be casting stuff that wont have a target. Which is why burn is preferred over path. You wont be running counter spells either if you were doing that, or even stuff like Boros charm. I have my doubts about renegade rallier as well. Main decks cards should have cards that are "always on" because thats the only way to really turn blood braid to max.


    This card should be absolutely gone from our lists. At best, this card is worth 6 mana (2 3dudes) and at worst gives you 0 if you flop. Bloodbraid will always give you 4 worth of value (3/2 haste is worth 3 and cascade will always hit at least 1 mana) which is 4 more mana than company's worst case. Its best case is 6 (3 mana dude plus bloodbraid) so its the same.

    The only place company is better is being better vs control (meh, were fine vs that, plus agrueable since bbe is 2 spells) board wipes/ removal, and finding silver bullets. But we arent a silver bullet deck. Sometimes we pack em, but we pack em fairly. So Company was always worse in our deck. BBE is better.


    I'm not sure BBE replaces this in domain. Both cards do the same thing, and might be around the same level in power. BBelf might be slightly higher since it can hit flames. In domain sometimes you play discard and counters though, in which case Id play rhino over it. This is the only spot I cant for sure say Elf is better. I dunno. Up to the hive mind. My suggestion is to swap it and really be critical about its abilities.


    Jund is going to be better now, so its useage and power level just went up, which is bad for us. Keep that in mind.




    So blitz zoo, bigger zoo, 4-5 color zoo or small zoo? My bet is on bigger zoo. Blitz likes the speed, but 4 mana is a tall ask. I'm sure they adopt the card as a 2 of for games that go longer, but I wouldnt call that a huge upgrade. 4-5 color zoo, the issue has been mana as always. Its painful. this makes it better, forsure, but its not like deathrite shaman got unbanned, the card that WOULD fix their problems. As Ive said, rhino is comparable... so I think the deck has more options and power now, but not fixing the main issue.

    Small zoo sucks. Its uninteractive, 2/3s for 1 mana are terrible since gurmag angler. Bbelfing into a kird ape feels bad. No.

    Bigger zoo checks all the ways to make an aggressive bbelf at peak opimization. Mana dorks to turn 3 it, more 3 and 2 drops to make better value out of it, reliably hit it turn 4. I actually would cut 5 drops out of the deck for better 3 drops now because bbelf into a 3 drop (or burn) is much stronger and faster and impact the game.

    heres a short list of cards that all got better with BBElf

    • All normal beat down dudes like nacatl
    • All forms of burn (makes path and discard worse)
    • goblin guide
    • vexing devil
    • grim lavamancer
    • Noble Heirch
    • Thalia
    • Ooze
    • Voice
    • Pridemage
    • Knight of the reliquary
    • Kitchen Finks
    • Atarkas command
    • Seal of fire
    • Seal of pandamonium
    • Domri Rade
    • Gideon of the trials
    • Sideboard cards that are enchantments, artifacts, or bodies.


    Doesnt work anymore. Sorry you guys can't live the dream like the old days.


    So I'm not sure if this makes zoo better than humans. I've been out of the loop for a while but came back on pro tour to watch it... And humans kinda acts like a tribal version small zoo. Its a weird blend of hatebears and small zoo. Basically everything in the deck interacts with the opponent, or beats down, and it does that job really well. Honestly... if they wanted too they could run elf. It worries me a bit, because if humans does what zoo does but better, you get into an out classed situation, which isnt good.

    Overall... Look, BBELF helps zoo compete. We can actually abuse it. We dont use it like jund does, we use it much more aggressively. But I'm not sure this is the card to save the zoo decks. I'm still full on about how zoo needs another 1 3/3. Right now, you can go faster and lose the long game, or go slower and lose the early game. A 3/3 at 1 lets us win the short game and still compete into the long game. BBElf in my opinion certainly raises the power level of zoo, but doesn't fix the core issue as to why we arent top tier.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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    posted a message on Dredge
    Dredge is still a great deck. Solid mid to high tier 2. The truth is what we are feeling is a little bit of power creep away from us. Wizards hasn't feed us new cards in over a year. Seriously... a year. Ixalan gave us nothing, and amonkhet (a grave themed block too) gave us like... 2 half-a-cards. We didnt get a kitesail freebooter or a power house like mom hug.

    So our deck is faultering. Currently the meta is unkind to us too. Games are fast, we cant exactly interact, and the prime control and combo deck of the format use the yard so grave hate is high. Its basically a 2 punch KO for us.

    That BR hallowone deck is basically all in dredge that isnt super weak to grave hate. I don't believe its as amazing of a deck as people think it is, its diff less consistent than us. But its faster and it doesnt roll over to hate...

    We need new cards, something that makes us less soft to side hate, and something that helps us interact a bit more. Or if the meta shifts back to grind, well do just find.
    Posted in: Combo
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    posted a message on [[Official]] The Top 50 List (Indefinite Hiatus)
    I have to admit, I miss this thread. I don't know if there is any good way to salvage it, but this thread was always a great resource to use. I hope it can come back. I think if it was updated (even twice a year) via a massive poll, or from some in house vote via mods or a select committee, that would be a good way to solve the updating issue.
    Posted in: Commander (EDH)
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    posted a message on [RIX] Rivals of Ixalan: Modern discussion
    Merfolk Mistbinder and Blood Sun...

    maybe Dire Fleet Daredevil, Azor, the Lawbringer, and reckless rage.

    Thats pretty much it. I think this set is a new low in overall power (for us) Blood Sun is being overblown. Its not moon 5-8. Comparing the moon to the sun is like... well comparing the moon and the sun! they totally different. Moon is an unfair card that fair decks like to side in that shut down greedy strategies. Sun, to me at least, looks like a card greedy decks will use to be more greedy. It enables bounce lands to just be sol lands, it turns off fetches, and still lets dumb lands like tron and temple do their thing.

    I have no reason to believe sun will destroy any format. Its an unfair card unfair decks play maybe. We have a billion of those types of cards.
    Posted in: Modern
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    posted a message on [Primer] Zoo [Video Primer]
    admirals orders is another weirdly aggressive counterspell we "could" add to our tool box. Bad at preventing combos, good at stopping combat, post removal.
    Posted in: Aggro & Tempo
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    posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.
    Thanks for all the well wishes guys. I'm not leaving Mtgsal completely. You'll still see me posting at times, and I'm going to keep my EDH primer, the zoo primer, and dredge primer updated as it needs to... I just might be a little slower on it...
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.
    Formal and official announcement, I won't be a Mod here in 2 weeks time. I'll be here long enough to find someone to replace me, which you can apply here!

    So with that formal announcement out of the way I get my 15 minutes of being sappy and sentimental. I'm sure some have you have noticed that I've been much less active lately on the forums. It has everything to do with jobs. I've been at MTGsal for 7 years and I've loved every second of it. I started here in college, and really did a lot of growing up.

    So much so if you dive into the code... you'll find my user name is actually KidLantern... but I dropped the Kid part because I started to joke about becoming an all grown up Lantern. I've watched my user name go from Green Lantern jokes, to pumpkin, to a completely new archetype that people think I play now. Also.. I don't play Lantern.

    I'm getting off track, but I am really attached to this place, so saying my semi goodbye got me a little emotional. The point I want to make is, ya'll helped me grow. In really real life I'm a movie and television producer, so no joke, even trying to manage uncooperative users has helped me in gain the tools to advance in my career.

    And thats why I've had to step down. Its hard to move on from something so rooted in me as a person. Don't get me wrong, I'll still be around sometimes. And in a weird way, ya'll are likely still going to see my work a lot more now that I've been promoted to Executive Producer. I know the staff I've helped make here are the best people to help grow the modern community to reach ever greater heights. I'm thankful for them too, because I can rest assured that my leaving won't cause major disruptions.

    At the end of the day, the community was the main draw for me. When I started, if you can believe it or not, Modern wasn't even what the format was called, and most of the player base thought it would die. It actually had quite a small following AND most stores refused to run the format. I started out here running tournaments online for Modern because people who wanted to play the format didn't have a store. I was genuinely worried the format would die.

    But wow! Its an FMN format, has pros playing, and is one of the most popular things to do in magic. With huge scores of you all talking about it. I don't really think anything I did was that impressive. A drop in the bucket, but I still couldn't be prouder of the format, and the people who made it possible. So this is just a huge thank you to all of you for giving me a place to play and talk about the thing I love, and helping me get to where I am as a person.

    Well... I guess thats really it! Anyone who reads my posts knows I'm always wordy as hell. So this isn't goodbye, Its just a see ya later and a thank you.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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    posted a message on Temporary State of the Meta Thread (Rules Update 7/17/17)
    Then thats spam, because rhis isnt the place for wizards of the coast management bashing.

    This isnt the place.
    Posted in: Modern Archives
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