- Lantern
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Member for 13 years, 10 months, and 2 days
Last active Mon, May, 10 2021 16:12:11
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Hiisio posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.See you zoo keeper! Your work is much appreciatedPosted in: Modern Archives -
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Vissah posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.Take care mate.Posted in: Modern Archives
When I started playing Modern I was looking for a fun and not to expansive deck to build all those years ago and your Zoo primer was what got me into playing Zoo. I loved the deck back then and played it so much I was slamming down creatures without even thinking about it -
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Shmanka posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.Lantern NoooooPosted in: Modern Archives -
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cfusionpm posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.I know we can be a painful and annoying bunch at times, but the hard work you and other mods put into the forum is greatly appreciated. Best of luck in your endeavors!Posted in: Modern Archives -
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guntius posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.Take care of yourself and may the magic in you live forever. Your one of the good ones, thanks for everything you've done for us.Posted in: Modern Archives -
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Adrithria posted a message on I will be stepping down in the next two weeks as Moderator.I know I didn't always agree with you on things, but thanks for all your work you did for the community. Being a mod is hard work and tons of it. Wish you all the best with your career man.Posted in: Modern Archives
Also as an aside thanks for all the work you've done with the dredge and zoo primers as well. -
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Took down a 45 man tounrament yesterday, going 9-0-1 (draw being intentional). After almost giving up on the deck, because of how badly it was performing, i came back to the primere here (to look at the lists), only to realized i was playing fewer dredgers than needed (gotta have around 900 games with this deck, should have noticed before :/). All in all, still solid deck, sad i misjudged it . Keep it up guys!Posted in: Combo - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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Yes, if any quote needs to be pinned, its this one. And relinked to over and over. Modern players (rightfully) fear bans like PDSD, and this type of assurance actually goes a really, really long way.
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I dont think you want to be at 3 brutalities in the main, even with burn being a big thing. Other than that, what you got is pretty standard, so it should be fine. Id say if you are worried about burn, run at least 1 gnaw to the bone in the side, which you have. I dont think Id run 3 explosives. Id run 2 tops, then split the difference with either deck, pulse, or nature's claim.
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Stealin' my hard earned testin! Heathen!
Actually swinging by to update some of my decklists of yester year on my phone. Is there a current list in dredge vine that seems good? As pizap was saying, I used to use a brew that was closer to his with death's shadows and savage master.
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Thanks for repping us! Top 33 is still pretty good! Despair would really help in that storm matchup.
Its diff a flex spot that can be thrown out for something else. Taking a quick look at my notes I use it against Burn, humans, spirits, zoo, scapeshift, titan shift. More than I was bringing in pharaoh, and I had enough for pharaoh matchups anyways, I needed a slight bump against burn, and scapeshift decks, and this fit the bill. I love brutality against burn, but it often doesnt get you there on its own, buys you a turn. Gnaw wins the game.
like I said, weaker flex spot.
I feel you, but its mana curve to me. I'm still in the "run 4 neonates" or at least 3 camp because I think hes important for consistancy. He can attack (despair, gnaw, after grave hate) he can block early turns (affinity, burn, merfolk) he doesnt dredge a ton, but he gets you started turn 1, brutality does turn 3. He also is instant speed, meaning I can do him turn 1 or 3 on their turn, avoiding verious hates game 2 and 3.
I agree. He is weak. and I am even using 2 brutalities in my main. But mana curve is important, and there are still quite a few times we have to race. That being said, I'll take a weak card that isnt great but does its job over over slotting my 2 mana cost making my turn 2 and 4 really good, but making my turns 1 and 3 worse.
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Round 1 Vs Eldrazi Death and Taxes 2-1 WIN (1-0)
Game 1 I saw concealed courtyard, and assumed death and taxes from it. I have a slower, but good start in terms of grind. Game one its generally always OK to grind. He lands Eldrazi displacer after displacer, but I notice he isnt playing any colorless sources. I take advantage of that, knowing I have a window before he can interact with me and use it to race. Eventually it forces him to have to start trading, and I know I've created too much of a value gap and have the overwhelm.
Game 2 In: 1 explosives, 2 pulse, 2 axe (for hate and big dudes) Out: 2 neonate, 1 mom hug, 1 Despair, 1 loam.
I open a pretty grindy hand, but assume I can probably out value him, and face the dreaded turn 1 relic. I play slow and steady, killing off narcs and extra sorceries to the relic. Basically, my go to plan against a relic is lower how good it is by never over playing into it, and using the grave for value instead of an engine. I actually out value the relic really well (fetches are amazing here. I actually put 1 out as a bluff even though I was outta lands to fetch for) by waiting for him to use his mana then going hard in on dredge. but I lose to 3 lingering souls double activation. Hes got the blockers and the attackers to out value me, and I missed the shot to get conflag on line. Activating vault of the arkangel seals the deal.
Game 3 I open a hand of looting, two imps, and a mom hug on the play. I figure his hate is relic, so by looting I can toss my imps and keep them safe by exiling looting. If he has RiP, he is probably dead. He does have the turn 1 relic, and I exile looting. I go off on mom hug getting myself 2 amalgams, 1 ghast, 1 narc. It should me more than enough. If he destroys my yard, I get to face damage him twice. If he tries to use removal I'll gain value out of it. And it ends up just like that. Its too much damage early on, and I conflag him for leathal.
2-1 (1-0)
Round 2 Vs Esper Sprints 2-1 WIN (2-0)
This guy is new to modern. Hes a very cool guy, but getting used to advanced triggers and stacking. I only noticed around 2 play mistakes with him, so hes getting the hang of it pretty well.
Sadly I lose game 1. Hey, it happens, especially if the deck plays off and the opponent has interaction AND a clock. God damn tempo decks, lol. Spirits, for anyone unfamiliar with the deck, is one of those weird decks where you are like "I think I shouldnt be losing... but I am." Flying beats, queller on conflag is aweful, and they can hexproof protect.
In 1 brutality, 2 darkblast, 2 pulse, 1 explosives, 1 gnaw Out: 1 thug, 1 loam, 2 mom hug, 1 ghast, 1 conflag. Conflag generally goes to face here, because queller and hexproof blow outs. Dark blasting to keep up is generally better, and explosives actually does alot here. I left despair in for menace because soul tokens and cheap blockers.
Turn 1 relic! This is turning into a pattern. Well, I do like I did before, play slower and out value. I brutality, letting me kill rattle chains and strip blessed alliance. And without said rattle chains I can conflag on my turn easier and ride the value to victory. The relic did some work on me, but I never gave him a good chance to use it. sometimes he was tapped out to avoid removal by flashing in spirits, and I used those windows to dredge.
Game 3 I ended up against no grave hate and sped out some quick damage. I saw the chance to turn 2 Ghast-> amalgam from a turn 1 looting, and with my 2nd looting in hand and despair, I knew early discard probably could wreck him. Indeed it did. I ended up getting him for 3 discard, which was enough to follow the quick end.
2-1 (2-0)
Round 3 vs Grixis Death's Shadow 2-1 WIN (3-0)
My buddy, Ben. Hes young, but a really good Grixis player. Gets he is a tempo player, understands his outs. Anywho, he hates playing me because this matchup is in my favor, we both know it and we go through the motions anyways. least he is fun to talk with.
I lose game 1. I was in the lead, but will be the first to admit I was tired after the last 6 games, as they were grindy as hell, and I had to deal with hate cards almost every game and play metal gymastics. So I didnt leave a narc to block, annnnnddd I lost to a 13/13. whoops.
In: 1 Bog, 2 pulse, 1 Explosives, 2 axe. Out: 2 neonate, 1 ghast, 2 brutality, 1 dakmor (dont over extend into anger)
Game 2 We get our grind on. Hes got no grave hate, but he does manage to apply blockers to protect his life total towards the end. I get despair out, nulling his 3 blockers into a single block, and discard away his counter spells, allowing me to very quickly win with my conflag turn later. As we were shuffling we talked about how rally wouldnt have worked there, and how he might have been able to turn the tides on that attack.
Game 3 wasnt too much of a game. I had the speed just off the backs of loams, and he didnt have early plays. I got there pretty damned fast and followed it up with a conflag for lethal.
2-1 (3-0)
Round 3 VS Skred Red 2-1 WIN (4-0)
I shuffled, lost the roll and he played a turn 1 snow covered mountain. I sighed and went "Skred... really? God damnit..." and then he played relic. God double damn it. I manage to get the relic cracked by turn 3. Then go in HARD on the dredge. I figure (and I still think its correct) that every turn I wait to try and win, the worse it gets for me. He angers. Sad panda.
Honestly, I think us dredge players cant be too salty over skred... We do what they do to us to everyone else. Its our own medicine really.
Game 2, time to over board: 2 pulse, 2 seize, 1 brutality, 2 grudge Out: 1 narc, 1 mom hug, 1 neonate, 2 conflag, 1 loam.
I put out a turn 1 looting and go for the fast "not dredge" start by discarding the ghast and amalgam. Like normal, with relics I expect this to make them pop a relic early, allowing me to dredge on time for turn 2. No relic. So I got a collected brutality off my looting and use it turn 2 to find the anger in his hand, and a bunch of 4 mana/5 mana cards. I see my chance here, and when he puts out a blocker, I despair aggressively to discard 3 cards and get in for damage. Forces him to lose a lot of late game gas and I can win it.
Game 3 we go again, and I dont see a relic (yay!) and get a slower dredge, but I have pulse and brutality. I see on my brutality that he has up to 3 mana and 4 mana walkers. I discarded Despair again because I want to destroy his hand while I have a window to do so, and I manage to really take him back a few turns off it (discarding 3 this time on turn 4) I play a fetch too, and never crack it just in case he draws a relic, which eventually he does, making the timing of the relic always weird. I eventually get to a part where I'm attacking for a crap ton, he skreds my amalgam, In resp I grudge his relic, which he than blows up, which I fetch to save my ghasts, resolves the skred, and I get to save the amalgam. I drop him to 6, he draws a bit off chandra, passes, annnnddddd I draw a conflag, 5 mana open, 6 cards (with conflag) and him at 6 life. So I conflag x=1, then flash back for 5 damage.
Christ, I didn't think dredge could beat skred...
2-1 (4-0)
Overall: sideboard is solid, main board is solid. I dunno if despair is as good as rally, but they seem to be on par at the very least. I miss haunted dead a little and think it would be baller with despair, but brutality is better right now. That I'm sure off. I never played driven, and the few games I had it in hand, I rushed to grave it, because I needed to strip cards. Menace is actually REALLY relivent, much more than I thought. It makes things really ackward. Even makes lingering souls alot worse. Plus its nice to be like "instead of having ghast blocked and killed, as well as my amalgam blocked and killed by angler, I'll make you take 2 and kill the soul token." Snaps are way way worse against us too. Just randomly it makes alot of stall tactics worse.
I thinnnnkkkk when I eventually do get the chance to live the dream and cast both sides, I probably cant lose.
I do wanna talk for a second about win-more despair vs winning despair. After talking to the store guys at first, very openly looking for a despair to use and telling people I was running it, many of the store guys said "Yeah, but rally blow outs" because I have been known to do this. And rally threat of activation is stupidly good in mind traps too. And they arent wrong... rally straight up wins games sometimes. Its a WIN card. And despair screams "Win-more" I mean... look, its a sorcery, so threat of activation is gone, as well as using it at the best time. it doesnt give a team pump, so in theory it isnt pushing damage. It also inst winning the game right there.
BUT, I think reading it and in practice are different. It reads win more, but it actually is pretty much the same thing as winning on the spot. Hear me out. Sometimes, rally doesnt win you the game. It drops them to... I dunno. 5. Then storm, scapeshift, hell even skred untaps and wins. Blocks too hinder rally a lot. Blocking even 2 here shaves off 6 damage, making the chance of winning the game just... non existant. And sure, I could NOT rally then flash back looting or something, but that doesnt stop them from untapping and winning.
Well... this makes blocks harder... and honestly, seems to push damage more than I thought. Less than rally, let me be clear, but it also doesnt suck on a team of 2 dudes when they have out a blocker, like rally does. And honestly... taking 3 or more cards outta someones hand DOES win the game. Doing that to storm, and as I saw with freakin' skred. destroys the chance to untap and win. Against those combo like decks, it just buys us two or more turns, which we will win then, and against fair decks like jund they cant value back from that.
But heres the big thing, it scales really well also... so I dont mind being aggressive as hell with it. If I loot and have an attacking 2-3 dudes on turn 3, I really dont mind casting despair, voiding their chump blocker (and that does include 7/7 shadows mind you) and stripping their options down by 2-3. And two mana means you can do it a lot easier, and a lot cleaner than rally/devil.
Honestly, I think it gives us the boost in the matchups we were bad against and really just seals the deal in the matchups we are good already in. We can still get out aggroed, but it sides out nicely for stuff like gnaw at that point. 2 was too much, because its not that great in your hand (wouldnt mind drawing it turn 5 or something if we are in grind mode, conserve the libary) but one replacing the rally actually seems pretty legit.
Try it out yall. At worst, do 3 weeks of it and tell me how ya feel. costs you .50 cents to 2 dollars.
remember these tips though:
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I played affinity 3 times, elves, some random brews a few times, and burn, 2 death and taxes, and a death's shadow. It didnt help on the burn match, which really sucked, because driven was stranded in the hand and I needed dispair. Against elves, I couldnt jam it in there, but again, I wanted dispair, but was too busy casting stuff til turn 4, which that point he already emptied. And when I could have cast it when I needed I was already winning the race. against deaths shadow I had a good set up and thought here is where it would shine, but when they discard stripped my turn 1-2 enabler and left me with this in hand I was screwed. Affinity I sided it out for grudges which is better.
Again, just awkward. It feels like rally, a finisher, but you gotta have it in the yard and use it around turn 4. I'm going to try and be more aggressive with its use tomorrow. Maybe I'm using it wrong.
Oh, and brutaility over preformed in all those matches. Worth mentioning.
Edit: well had a slower game against a blue deck and I won off aggressive dispairs. So much so that game 3 he exiled it right away. I think its maybe a 1/2 of in the sideboard to counter combo and grind decks maybe.
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2 driven//dispair. App on my phone isnt updated with HoD
Idea was cut two flex spots (haunted/rally) for driven, cut 2 enablers for 2 enablers (loam, neonate to 2 brutality)
Like I said... it probably should be 2 brutaility with -1 driven +1 loam, or -1 brutaility, + 1 neonate or something. But I wanna see my numbers in testing so Im overloading a little.
Either driven will be staple main deck, giving the deck dredge power and game ending power, or it will be super win more. Might be sideboard more than main, kinda like brutaility, being flexable. I wont really know until I can drive it a bit.
Im sure mainboard brutaility is right now. But I cant see cutting neonate down to 2, no way on that. We still need turn 1 plays.
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Its grave hate. Were getting splash damage from boards of shadow decks right now