MTG Salvation

Quote from Matson »

Hey, just a fast question for you masters. Im starting to play modern and im really fascinated bout Dredge deck, but i´ve
heard that people are saying that dredge is hard to play and there´s lots of Graveyard hate as well.

But if you´re willing to accept this; is Dredge suitable for patient modern newbie?

EDIT: Are you using Scalding Tarns to fetch steam vents for Narcomoebas so they won´t stay dead in hand?

Sometimes you can. You rarely do. Its more for casting amalgam when somwone plays a layline or something.

Yes, dredge is a viable modern deck. You can learn its ins and outs if you put the time in. It is a hard deck to play, so its not like burn or something where you can sit back and learn the modern meta by just watching.

If you were serious about it, Id print out the deck, sit down and goldfish it. Master the movement of the deck before you go in and play

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I. Forward:
Zoo is meant to be an aggressive build that wins the game on the back of its animals by mid-game. It is not as fast as some decks like infect, Auras, or affinity, but its not as easy to hate out. It also isn't as straight forward as Rdw/burn, because it cares about keeping it's creatures alive for value, rather than just continual damage.

Zoo gets its name because it relies on the best creatures ever printed in magic to get the job done. Ironically, most of zoo's creature choices are animals. Thus the name sticks. As the name in implies, to us, creatures are the name of the game, and the more fast and efficient they are, the better.

If your looking for an aggressive deck that can be incredibly fast and explosive, yet still retain the edge of not being easily hated out, then Zoo is right for you!

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II. Core of the Deck:
This is the core of Zoo. Let's go over card choices:

Tectonic Edge, Ghost Quarter, Path to Exile, Blood Moon. Welcome to a format where you can be as greedy as you want... but you still need to play basics. You want to play one of each, unless your more green white and a "Bigger Zoo" then you generally play 1-2 of Forests and Plains

Naya fetches! Grab anything you need, grab basics, grab shocks! In Dark Zoo, Blue Zoo, or Tribal, you want to use different fetches... But head to extra info for mana questions.

Shock Lands! With fetches, its called Bolt lands. And yes we like to bolt ourselves to turn on all the creatures we have. You want to know more about the different colors, head to extra info!

The party cat is back! A 3/3 for one mana, She is the leader of the beat down animal gang!

For 2 mana you get a critter that can be anywhere between 2/3 to 5/6. Nothings as big, lives through all the burns, and will trample down most things in its path.

3 damage for one mana. Its removal, its burn, its cheap. Its everything you could ever want in a deck.

Something in the way of your creatures? Not anymore. While it's a downside is giving them tempo, generally the stuff that doesn't die to above, dies to path much later in the game when the tempo doesn't matter.

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III. Other Card Options:
Lands:

These are your second best lands. They let you play lands fast and easy. You are rarely past 3 lands anyways.

Not really used much, but always an option. I generally perfer strong hold as it gives haste and doesnt take a ton of mana, but take it as you will.

Manlands, they help against sweepers, and can help push through damage. Usually Gruul Zoo never gets that far in the game, but if your stretching to midrange, check these guys out.

Land Destruction has two uses in this deck. The first is a way to "delay" the late game by resource denial. The second, and most often used, is utility, killing off other lands that might cause a problem like man lands.

A rare land that is useful when you start running out of gas or need an answer, in that it draws.

Creatures:

All of these cards (Roughly grouped by type of creature and mana cost) All find spots on zoo's roster to some extent. A lot of these creatures are pretty weak comparison to some other, some haven't even seen play in a long time, but are shown just so you know they are an option. Again, to stress, these are all options for zoo's army, but some are not going to be a good call depending on the many zoo variations. For good examples of what you think should be used, look at the variations section.

To Zoom in on any Card or see rulings, click on the card.

These are solid bodies if you are looking for extra beaters than those mentioned in the core.

I would classify these guys as "speed" bodies. They all can come out fast and hard, but all have flaws as well. Speed, but at the cost of reliability.

These are repeatable removal, with bodies. They provide reach towards the end game, and clear a path for your bigger creatures to hit in.

The best mana ramp youll be getting in zoo. Noble heirarch allows yous to win tarmogoyf wars and give buffs to hits. Birds can give you red and black, but also gets flying for them cool kessig wolf runnings

This little oddity is a card used in mostly all in Gruul builds. Its basically a free bear. And combos very well with Experiment One and Reckless Bushwacker

All these creatures excel at being a thorn in the side of midrange, tempo, and control decks.

One of the best support cards Zoo has to offer, he can answer a lot of random enchantments and artifacts, provides a body, and even pumps lone attackers.

Graveyard hate and lifegain, all in a beater. It also has the upside of being the ban of snaocasters existance, which dominates in modern.

Knight often finds herself being 5/5 or larger. She is the ultimate stall breaker, can color fix you, mana ramp, and find things like Kessig Wolfrun.

Probably the best 3 drop we have, but the hardest to enable, as it relies hard on our 2 drops and other 3 drops. But it doesnt ever really die and makes everything into a threat.

Really only used in midrange or landfall builds, this thing can life gain and block all day.

Aggressive, its like an anti removal, midrange, and aggro beater. His nickname is King Oero and can easily dominate a board.

More fair in our deck than other decks wishing to abuse him, he is a utility 3 drop that likely brings back a body with him, making him a two for one.

One of the best ways to gain life in zoo, while also being used as a great aggro blocker. Plus they comeback no matter what (sans grave sniping) allowing it to be removal/blocker/sweeper resistant

Both these beaters have a way to dodge removal, which is suprisingly "Must have" if you want a 3 cmc beater.

Semi grave hate, while also building on your teams power. The black relegates her to being only used in some dark zoo lists and some tribal, but she is a beating, her and her goat.

Selective tutor and refueling, though now mostly outclassed by Collected Company

If you want giant beats, not much better than a 4 mana 4/5 trampling rhino who helixs. His coloring means that hes only a tribal option, but its a strong reason to do it.

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Hooters here is an insanely good beat stick. But he needs a little build around. Hes not goyf, but a pretty good impression of him. Make sure you feed him with fetches, burn and ghor clans! No knights though.

Burn:
Some of these feed Goyf, others have various means of effectiveness. Some are better against control, and some against aggro None are as good as lightning bolt, but the deck doesn't focus on removal too highly.

By giving your creatures (actually, everything) indestructibility, this doubles as a hard hitting burn card, and creature protection.

Its at its best vs aggro, but a 6 point lifeswing is never bad. This used to be one of the cores of zoo, but due to other more powerful tools like the commands, has fallen out of favor. Still, it should be on your radar

2 mana 5 damage, 'nuff said. Well, it does mean you need to be 5 colors also.

Often 2 mana for 6+ damage, it can also negate lifegain and save your team, it can also give reach to block flyers and pump a steppe lynx, but these are corner cases.

Much more midrangey, this spell is a swiss army knife in 3 mana. Al modes, kill an artifact, discarding cards, bringing back dudes, or shocking, is relevant at all times.

Kills finks and voice of resurgence dead, which is great since they are some of the biggest threats to the zoo deck.

Kill all the dorks. This is a great choice when there is tokens, delver, and small aggro.

Proactive. You can cast it with free mana, and let it hang out. Feeds goyf.

The best spell against other aggro. Its often paired with searing blood but double red makes it hard to cast.

Feeds goyf pretty much. If you need an extra spell to do so, but its useage is very outdated.

Others:
These are other spells that don't fall in the above category but are still worth mentioning.

On par with Lightning Bolt and Path to exile. If you are in black you should highly consider this as part of your removal options.

Paths 5-8 if needed. Better in light white splashed decks. Some decks, like suicide zoo, even like the life lose. With a flexable mana cost, if your white light, this is a good alternative.

You got white mana? AND SHOCKLANDS? Heres more paths. Not always guarantee, especially in a format with abrupt decay,

Makes your 1 mana dudes hit even harder. This is great in a one drop heavy zoo, making your critters manage to still climb over blockers for some damage, and toss this aura back into youre hand

It can be like a green ponder. While less raw game winning value than collected company, if you run 5ish planeswalkers in the deck, this provides insane filtering value

Void removal with a pump? Yes, please. This spell can often be the cause of your opponent going to half their life on turn 2. (turn one nacatl, swing with it on turn 2, causing the opponent to crack shock for a bolt, only to have the bolt voided and take 7 more damage. Opponent is at 10 life.

With above average creatures This is almost always removal + a pump/enchantment kill/Bolt void or burn hate

If you're into black, this is a premiere kill spell card. It takes out a wide range of problem creatures as well as enchantments, artifacts and walkers too!

A source of card advantage and removal rolled into one. Being the only "real" turn 3 walker we can use, he often is a win con against the slower decks.

A more grindy verison of Elspeth. Over a little bit more time, she will be better than Elspeth, since she gives you alot more options, but is a full turn/2 slower to flat out win the game

Super flying aggro! Knight is a bomb who will win the game on her own. She can guard herself, and when the time is right she turns the tables.

Burn and board control. Sometimes being a 4 mana helix is enough. But if the game goes long Ajani will start to grind the game to a halt, allowing you to break a stall.

Basically, a draw engine. It also can poke people and make big threats unable to block. With card advantages and ways to stop chump blockers, you'll win the game quick.

Need blockers? Make 4. Beat control or any combo aggro. The flexabily makes it a great higher curved threat. Pairs great with gavony township.

Instant speed ranger of Eos with all upside. Great for toolboxing, pumping out more aggression, or slipping over counters.

Combos with Knight of the Reliquary by letting you cycle through all you're lands in the deck, and have a huge threat left. It uses extra triggers to tap down blockers, or untap mana dorks for extra mana. Remember Kessig Wolfrun and Senjiri Steppe as great cards to help in the combo

Blood rush can make it cheap burn, or lets you climb over chump blockers. At worst its still a 4/4 creature.

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IV. Side Options:
Some of these can be cards from main deck options above. I will also list cards only once here, like Grafdigger's Cage, which nukes graveyard combos, but is primarily a graveyard hate, thus won't also be in combo hate.

Graveyard

• Faerie Macabre
  
• Grafdigger's Cage
  
• Relic of Progenitus
  
• Leyline of the Void
  
• Tormod's Crypt
  
• Loaming Shaman

Artifact/Enchantment

• Deglamer
  
• Nature's Claim
  
• Natural State
  
• Shattering Spree
  
• Wear (Wear//Tear)
  
• Tear (Wear//Tear)
  
• Dromoka's Command
  
• Qasali Pridemage
  
• Reclamation Sage
  
• Vandalblast
  
• Ancient Grudge
  
• Back to Nature
  
• Destructive Revelry
  
• Disenchant
  
• Kami of Ancient Law
  
• Naturalize
  
• Qasali Pridemage
  
• Seal of Primordium
  
• Tin Street Hooligan
  
• Unravel the Æther
  
• Aura Barbs
  
• Aura of Silence
  
• Krosan Grip
  
• Shatterstorm
  
• Creeping Corrosion
  
• Fracturing Gust
  

Ramp/land

• Tunnel Ignus
  
• Blood Moon
  
• Molten Rain
  
• Boom
  
• Fulminator Mage
  
• Crumble to Dust

Combos

• Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
  
• Torpor Orb
  
• Hushwing Gryff
  
• Aegis of the gods
  
• Hallowed Moonlight
  
• Spirit of the Labyrinth
  
• Eidolon of the Great Revel
  
• Gaddock Teeg
  
• Spirit of the Labyrinth
  
• Rule of Law
  
• Ethersworn Cannonist
  
• Eidolon of Rhetoric
  
• Aven Mindcensor
  
• Leyline of Sanctity
  
• Unified Will
  
• Swan Song
  
• Stubborn Denial
  

Control

• Grand Abolisher
  
• Vexing Shusher
  
• Guttural Response
  
• Boros Charm
  
• Domri Rade
  
• Collected Company

Midrange

• Vines of Vastwood
  
• Blossoming Defense
  
• Selfless Spirit
  
• Ghor-Clan Rampager
  
• Thrun, the Last Troll
  
• Chained to the Rocks
  
• Chandra, Pyromaster

Tempo

• Dryad Militant
  
• Grim Lavamacer
  
• Rending Volley
  
• Roast

Aggro

• Searing Blaze
  
• Volcanic Fallout
  
• Pyroclasm
  
• Fiery Justice
  
• Kitchen Finks
  
• Feed the Clan

Others

• Burning-Tree Shaman
  
• Skullcrack
  
• Atarka's Command

My scarecrow deck (link in my sig) is a Reaper King deck. But the scarecrows are not the main theme, or even second theme. Its the thrid.

First theme is overall good stuff (In a spooky halloween theme. ) followed by a sac recurr theme. Both support the 3rd theme which is scarecrows replacing removal because of Reaper Kings ability. Since there are so few good scarecrows (2 good ones, 2 to 3 ok ones, and one banned one) and a few changlings to cover some numbers, you have to use blink and recurring to abuse their ability.

Reaper King is way too far off to be a good commander. But it can play what it can to be a good stuff deck with control elements.

Mainphase is no longer hosting the meta updates, but tapped out is. It's the same data. Here the monthly update

• Titanshift goes to tier 1
• Storm, Abzan, Humans, Smallpox, Jeskai Control goes to tier 2
• Azban Company, BW Eldrazi, Pinned in Developing Competitive for being tier 3 this month.
• I also Pinned the other tier 3 stuff thats been tier 3 for a while to separate them from the life time members of Developing Competitive

Sorry I'm a little late on the updates. Heres the shifts:

• Titanshift goes to tier 1
• Storm, Abzan, Humans, Smallpox, Jeskai Control goes to tier 2
• Azban Company, BW Eldrazi, Pinned in Developing Competitive for being tier 3 this month.
• I also Pinned the other tier 3 stuff thats been tier 3 for a while to seperate them from the life time members of Developing Competitive

I dunno. Thia set screams edh to me. Like almost every csrd.

It doesnt dredge so its just a slow mill effect. Id rather run Tome Scour or thought scour if I was in blue

Returning from a small FNM modern in my LGS. It was a sweet night to Dredge. Driven//Despair shined against both a U Tron and a Eldrazi Tron, cripling their hands in turn 3 and 4 with me on the play both times. Grixis Shadow just takes so much damage that it's not that of a horrible match up. And the last game was against afinity, and I had my sweet vengeance cruising 2-0 this time with great hands in my side. My record was also a first 8-0 in games for me.

On the topic of usual deck themes, I tried an Atogatog deck (thread in signature) that was unusual. I'm also familiar with a neat thread with Reaper King at the helm, located here.

I do not have much experience with your two ideas, but I've read a lot of threads so I'll add what I can.

In terms of your top deck manipulation idea, have you considered a deck built around Primal Surge? All permanents, meaning your top deck cards get better. Things like Lurking Predators and Vizier of the Menagerie seem like they would help you do more than just curdle.

Thanks for the feedback Lantern and OFSpagoogdle!

I'll test more keeping in mind what you said

Missed the PPTQ due to lack of testing/piloting the deck prior. In my testing since I can say that Sheltered Thicket is hot garbage in the version that wants to break out fast. It was awkward 3rd land in hand more then a few times. In a version maxing on Collective Brutality and looking to go long I could see it being better.

Rally the Peasants is insane versus removal. It helps extend power onto the board after spot removal takes care of an Amalgam or Ghast.
Dark Blast is stellar versus affinity, it is also an easy board out card. I enjoyed my two in the main.

robaldelli versus burn you want gnaw to the bone, just play it around their skullcracks and commands.

People fear change, we see it every time. Like I've mentioned (maybe it was Twitter) before.

How are those Bitterblossom, Valakut, ThopterSword and AV decks looking at Tier 0? Oh wait, other than Valakut...they dont even sit at Tier 1 or 2.

And before someone says 'Troll!' It wasnt Troll that broke Dredge, it was Cathartic Reunion and Prized Amalgam.

Quote from Lantern »

I beat dredgevine with new dredge the day I got the deck.

I'm not throwing shade really (well, I did to you, you threw it first.) I was just stating a simple fact with data to back it up. Dredgevine has less of a meta share, mostly because it is less conistant (burst vs a full engine) and because it has a harder time sideboarding (we can "draw" ours easier and cut cards easier) as well as slots issues. Our deck takes around 8 slots for beaters, and our engine smaller, giving us more slots to play with.

Not trying to make a big deal outta it. I used to play dredgevine (likely will 2 weeks from now for fun), but I can admit coming from both that dredge dredge just functions easier. As far as I know, the most competitive dredgevine lists that have placed are using conflag and amalgams, so its basically, dredge with some vines added in. Though I'm partial to Varolz, the Scar-Striped, death's shadow as it gives a niche dredge cant attack with.

I agree, Dredgevine is definitely less consistent than traditional Dredge. I'm hoping my newer build of the list incorporating Hollow One helps fix the consistency a bit but we'll have to see. Feel free to check out the deck over in the Dredgevine thread

Speaking of Hollow One have any of you discussed it as a possible card for normal Dredge? While I know the deck mainly leans on cheating creatures into play from the yard, Turn 2 Looting into a 1 mana 4/4 still seems pretty good. Or heck, even being able to play them for free after a large Conflagrate if your opponent is still alive seems like it might at least warrant some testing.

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Quote from Killer_Manfred »

Against what do you bring in Driven // Despair?

To borrow some of the analysis and testing from the Dredge thread in this post and this post, the Despair half can be a house against midrange and combo decks.

Two mana to destroy their hand can often just set you up to win games on the following turn. Consensus so far seems to be using it as early as is reasonable (2-4 creatures attacking) and menace will help your dudes get through. Driven is good but (at least in Dredge) not the primary use. I could see it being slightly better in Dredgevine where you actually want some creatures not named Gravecrawler in hand to cast or to draw land for Bloodghast triggers or hard-casting dudes, but the real value comes from Despair ripping your opponents hand away just before they can stabilize.

That being said, it shouldn't be more than a two-of, since it is utility, and is pretty easy to side out against aggro decks that are too fast at dumping their cards on the table.

Went 6-3 at the Cincinnati SCG classic, ended at 33rd

Beat Grixis Death's Shadow - relatively close races but I was always ahead and chumping is good.
Beat Vizier - I showed up late, giving up game 1, and still wrecked it in 2 games.
Beat Abzan - Ground it out, put her on the back foot every game by having more threats.
Beat 8 Rack - Mulled to Loam on 5 both games and rolled through the win.
Beat UW Control - Got to drop a satisfying burning inquiry that took away a RIP and a Cryptic. He didn't have enough answers to pseudo wide boards.
Lost to Storm - I struggle a lot with this matchup. I don't have a driven//despair yet. I killed every body he put down before his combo turns but still went off on t4 in game 2 and 3. Game 1 he fizzled by 1 storm and I darkblasted his attacking Baral to survive and win the swing back.
Lost to Burn - find lifegain or lose.
No Show
Lost to Burn - find lifegain or lose.

My 1-ofs are Scourge Devil and Haunted Dead, and I'm finding I don't care much for haunted dead and I may make it the Driven//Despair slot. I'm also running a split of 2 Burning Inquiry and 2 Collective Brutality. I wanted the Inquiries for more turbo dredging, but I kinda just want 4 Brutalities after seeing them be crucial and I don't want to waste sideboard slots on more of them. Also I'm past caring about Neonate, it just doesn't feel like it does enough.