I wanted to do a comic on him, but I can't even seem to find out what RACE he is. Is he a goblin or a young man, or what? There seems to be no information about him on the web (that I could find, anyway). Is mentioned in a book?
He grabs a creature, then he makes them fight other creatures. He obviously loves fast creatures (haste), hard hitters (double strike), creatures that run through things (trample), and creatures that are a headache for opponents (hexproof).
He's Michael Vick.
That joke's right on the line of inappropriate. Let's not go there.
~kaburi
I would like to see a competitively costed way to grant cipher to spells without cipher.
Although this would be interesting, I don't see them doing it. Think Austere Command + Gideon, Champion of Justice. Any way of giving Gideon any cipher spell can get pretty bonkers. Even Cryptic Command as a return permanent and draw a card every turn is pretty bonkers.
The idea of a set like this is a great idea. Please also create a Modern Rares product that is the same type of idea. Charge me a little extra, and include 14 tournament staple rares and 1 tournament staple mythic per pack. I have limited space in my house, and there is no room for unplayable commons and uncommons anymore.
Before it would go into the "exile zone" from flash back the full card hasn't resolved yet. The card HAS to check Cipher before resolving, then its up to the controlling player if they want to encode it onto a creature or not. You are not reading the big part of Cipher that says THEN.
Flashback's "then" statement occurs during the cast, and before Whispering Madness's effects can happen. Whispering Madness's "then" statement occurs after casting costs have been paid, so you are unable to pay for it.
EDIT: gmax666 and the others that said that you would be able to cipher is correct, now that I think about it more. The part that makes them correct is the wording on "flashback" though. Because flashback does not have a "pay x mana, exile ~ CARDNAME:", the exile is not part of the casting cost, but the action to perform after the spell has resolved. As you can cipher before the spell resolves, you can use it to pay the cipher cost, then when the flashback exile would occur, the action of exiling the card again "fizzles".
Thank you gmax666 and others for your persistence and patience with helping me understand.
How does this work with Snapcaster Mage? As in, let's say I have no creatures on the battlefield when I cast a spell with Cipher, so I opt to let it go to the graveyard. Then later I cast a Snapcaster targeting a spell with Cipher. Can I then encode the flashbacked Cipher spell onto my Snapcaster (or any creature I've got on the battlefield at the time), or will it be exiled first?
Snapcaster would give the card flashback until end of turn. As part of its cost to cast it with flashback, you need to exile the card. After the spell resolves, you are then given the option for the "may" ability, but you would not be able to pay the cost to cipher because the card was already exiled for the flashback cost.
If Ciphers are too good, will Snapcaster's price drop?
I don't think so. There are instances where you will not want this card encoded on a creature. Snapcaster gives you versatility when deciding if the card should be encoded or go to the yard.
Side note - you won't get the cipher effect if you are trying to flashback a card with cipher on it, because it will be exiled as soon as it is cast, and therefore, the cipher trigger has no card to exile.
Agree, we will have to wait for official ruling. If I had to take a stab at it though, it would be something like this:
Encode the keyrune creature, and the creature gains the ability. The ability doesn't go away after the creature reverts to a non-creature artifact (similar to +1/+1 counters - they may be added to a creature, but once they are there, the object can stop becoming a creature, and the effect does not get removed) as there is nothing that is removing the encoding from the object at the end of the turn. As long as the object is the same object on the following turn, it will still be encoded when you activate the creature ability, and still allow you to cast the copy.
This card gets even better in Modern with the man-lands. ;-)
I think the card is, like the other swords, very strong and will probably be played in standard. The art is a little meh, looks too much like SOBM.
The set is not really mainly artifacts; there are a lot of them, but most cards (and especially creatures) are still colored. Therefore, one could argue that this card has evasion against like 1/3 of the creatures played, depending on the most popular decks when MBS is out.
Therefore this card should at least be a must-have sideboard card against black and/or green decks.
And seriously, untapping lands is cute at best? Explain, why is having a potential double mana pool every turn nothing more than cute
In a block that has SoBM, it is cute. What happens if you have this neither you or your opponent have cards in hand? your opponent takes a minimum of 3. Nothing else. And with SoBM? So which is the good mythic, and which is the filler? Which goes in the SB?
Looking forward to seeing you proved wrong. As for it being the 'junk filler mythic' - I know a couple of Heroes who'd like a word with you.
Would loved to be proved wrong on this one, but not seeing it. If Wizards errated it to take out the word "combat", I will be promoting it as much as you are. Until then, there are better options for my 60 cards.
Just another thought. Feast and Famine are opposite ideas. Maybe the famine should have been when you deal combat damage to an opponent, that opponent's lands do not untap during their untap step.
In the mythic rare slot, this card is obviously the trash filler. It will be used best by selling it on ebay to the peolpe that would buy it to complete the sword set.
Pro green and pro black are unimpressive in a set that is mainly colorless arifacts.
Specter abilites are cool when the creature has evasion. I don'e see evasion here.
Untapping all lands is cute at best, as it is useless if you have nothing to spend the mana on. In addition, if you are looking to play this in mono blue to make sure you have mana for counters or draw, you may want to reconsider how you play mono blue. Typically mono blue would not waste time with an artifact that requires a creature.
Overall thought is this thing would be a mediocre to good rare. At mythic, it is not worth my consideration.
He grabs a creature, then he makes them fight other creatures. He obviously loves fast creatures (haste), hard hitters (double strike), creatures that run through things (trample), and creatures that are a headache for opponents (hexproof).
He's Michael Vick.
That joke's right on the line of inappropriate. Let's not go there.
~kaburi
Although this would be interesting, I don't see them doing it. Think Austere Command + Gideon, Champion of Justice. Any way of giving Gideon any cipher spell can get pretty bonkers. Even Cryptic Command as a return permanent and draw a card every turn is pretty bonkers.
Flashback's "then" statement occurs during the cast, and before Whispering Madness's effects can happen. Whispering Madness's "then" statement occurs after casting costs have been paid, so you are unable to pay for it.
EDIT: gmax666 and the others that said that you would be able to cipher is correct, now that I think about it more. The part that makes them correct is the wording on "flashback" though. Because flashback does not have a "pay x mana, exile ~ CARDNAME:", the exile is not part of the casting cost, but the action to perform after the spell has resolved. As you can cipher before the spell resolves, you can use it to pay the cipher cost, then when the flashback exile would occur, the action of exiling the card again "fizzles".
Thank you gmax666 and others for your persistence and patience with helping me understand.
Snapcaster would give the card flashback until end of turn. As part of its cost to cast it with flashback, you need to exile the card. After the spell resolves, you are then given the option for the "may" ability, but you would not be able to pay the cost to cipher because the card was already exiled for the flashback cost.
I don't think so. There are instances where you will not want this card encoded on a creature. Snapcaster gives you versatility when deciding if the card should be encoded or go to the yard.
Side note - you won't get the cipher effect if you are trying to flashback a card with cipher on it, because it will be exiled as soon as it is cast, and therefore, the cipher trigger has no card to exile.
Agree, we will have to wait for official ruling. If I had to take a stab at it though, it would be something like this:
Encode the keyrune creature, and the creature gains the ability. The ability doesn't go away after the creature reverts to a non-creature artifact (similar to +1/+1 counters - they may be added to a creature, but once they are there, the object can stop becoming a creature, and the effect does not get removed) as there is nothing that is removing the encoding from the object at the end of the turn. As long as the object is the same object on the following turn, it will still be encoded when you activate the creature ability, and still allow you to cast the copy.
This card gets even better in Modern with the man-lands. ;-)
In a block that has SoBM, it is cute. What happens if you have this neither you or your opponent have cards in hand? your opponent takes a minimum of 3. Nothing else. And with SoBM? So which is the good mythic, and which is the filler? Which goes in the SB?
Keyword there is potential, but even still, it is not the Door.
Would loved to be proved wrong on this one, but not seeing it. If Wizards errated it to take out the word "combat", I will be promoting it as much as you are. Until then, there are better options for my 60 cards.
Pro green and pro black are unimpressive in a set that is mainly colorless arifacts.
Specter abilites are cool when the creature has evasion. I don'e see evasion here.
Untapping all lands is cute at best, as it is useless if you have nothing to spend the mana on. In addition, if you are looking to play this in mono blue to make sure you have mana for counters or draw, you may want to reconsider how you play mono blue. Typically mono blue would not waste time with an artifact that requires a creature.
Overall thought is this thing would be a mediocre to good rare. At mythic, it is not worth my consideration.