For God's sake, this is not an Instant Messenger conversation. What you post here will be sticking around for a while, so try to make it look presentable.
Issues with your card...
1. That effect goes on an enchantment, not a sorcery.
2. That's not how you word it. If you're going to design cards, use proper templating.
I'm around more often than you think; I just like to avoid running my mouth off for the sake of running my mouth off. Greetings Dark Majic and Starleaf!
The wording on Parahydrox is the correct wording, so I'm not sure why you're bringing this up. If people don't understand how the card works, that is not our fault. There are plenty of Rules Gurus on this site who would be able to clear up any confusion, or they could have asked us to clarify like Jenesis did.
The problem, as I stated, was that some people would not know that it let you chain all the spells you RFG'd, and for those who did, would think that was not our intent. In the called thread, they specifically gutted our points BECAUSE it appeared we didn't know what our card did. The much easier to understand wording, where you play all of the removed spells on the first trigger, simply would've worked better in all regards.
And it doesn't really change its power level, as anyone who was going to kill it probably would've done it before you got a chance to play a spell to trigger it.
Eds: DF, KoZ, and kaipalin have all been officially prodded and have until Friday to get their cans in gear. I don't expect a reply from Keeper as he's apparently fallen off the face of the earth, I understand DF has IRL issues so I think she'd be better suited as a friend, and I'm not sure what to expect from kai.
The Family's Cuigine's contract is sooo broken! how can nobody realize that? Srsly, kill three creatures for three mana getting around shroud? BROKEN! Unmake was three mana just to kill ONE creature...
I don't know about broken, but it's such a cool design that people didn't care. I'm not surprised we're out; I made my thoughts known for Triplicate, and surprise surprise, we lost points for exactly what I said we would.
I hate to insinuate horrible things, but it seems like the Called would always hate our card more than everyone else, and we would return the favor to them. It might just be our demographics clashing, but it seemed just a little ridiculous to me.
Either way, we didn't deserve a top 4 slot. Only one of our designs was really good in my opinion, and we managed to give it such an unclear wording so that it raised way too many questions, and appeared unintentionally overpowered.
Next time, try listening to me. Just because everyone here likes the card doesn't mean it appeals to everyone in the other clans...
I have too much work to do to spend time modifying the thread this year, so have fun without me. Also, you're a little early Zazzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Anyways, my quick impressions on the submissions for the contest:
Mindweave (CMU) - Even if you go all the way, you're just going to end up milling all your opponent's lands. I'd like it more if the repeating this process was optional. It is a pretty aggressive miller.
Flash Gordon (Soundtrack) - A rules nightmare and it's got spelling errors to boot. Also doesn't include the non-core set keyword. Don't know if I would consider it offensive...
Incendiary Guivre (Called) - I love how it can deal at most 6 damage either way if you just want to chuck it at something, be it your opponent' head or one of his/her guys. Not sure why it's green though.
Ulfur's Avenger (The Pack) - They hit it out of the park again. Such a cool combination of abilities. It might be a tad overpowered (I'd make it 2/1 or 2/2), but creatures need pushing nowadays so that isn't too much of an issue.
Here is why I don't think submitting triplicate is a good idea:
1. Other clans might not "Get" the usage of three in the title, whether or not the clan council agrees with it or not.
2. Likewise, other clans might not "Get" why it's defensive, because it appears as a combo card first and foremost.
3. Other clans wight be put off by the simplistic double Fork design.
It's a cool and elegant card, don't get me wrong, but we are pretty much guaranteed to lose if we submit it this round.
Here's an idea I had; it may need balancing.
Veil of Storms 3UU
Instant
Put three 3/3 blue Weird creature tokens with flying, defender, and "When this card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, draw a card." onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
It's got limited applications, so perhaps a cool counter is in order.
~Insert Cool One Word Name Here~ XUU
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays X. Draw a card.
Might be a little too simple, but it's a design I think people would like.
I did forget to include an important clause, though.
Triplicate :3mana::symu::symu:
Instant [R]
Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Copy target instant or sorcery spell. You may choose new targets for the copy.
Reminds me of Radiate in that it'll probably have lots of unrealized potential. Also, how is this exactly defensive?
Again, If you have any questions as to why your score is what it is, feel free to PM me and I'll be happy to walk you through it.
On to round 3. Remember, after this round, we will be cutting to the top 4 clans, the top 2 from each group.
"Let the battle begin!"
As Baru's words echo throughout the coliseum, the very ground beneath you begins to tremble. In fact, you notice the entire coliseum itself begin to shake. You know Baru is powerful, but even he could do something like this.
Immediately the center of the pit errupts with a pillar of flame. As you watch, the flame begins to take the form of a dragon as it flies around near the top of the coliseum. With another burst of flame, a mysterious man appears in the middle of the arena.
He has a rugged appearance, his black hair long and wild. His armor appears to be made of scales and spikes and his carries a mangled staff. His eyes glow a menacing red, yet they have no thought in them--only mindless chaos. As he looks around and sees his surroundings, he simply begins to laugh.
Immediately after, another man appears in a puff of blue smoke. "Sarkahn, you must stop this!" shouts this new stranger.
Sarkahn's laughter quells. "My master wants chaos. My master wants destruction. My master wants... your service." His eyes begin to glow an even brighter and deeper red and the arena again begins to rumble.
The man in blue turns to each of you. "If you wish to save yourselves and those you love, even this very world you live in, you must help me defeat him!"
Looks like your first coliseum battle will certainly be one to remember.
Group 1:
Your third challenge is:
Make a defensive card. Group 1 bonus criteria: - Has the number 3 or word "three" somewhere on the card. (not including flavor text or reminder text)
- Does not have T in its rules text.
Group 2: Your third challenge is: Make an offensive card. Group 2 bonus criteria: - Includes a non-core set keyword. - Does not include the words "when" or "whenever."
You have 4 days to design and submit your card, starting at the time stamp of this post. Following that, you will have 2 daysto review the other team submissions and post your critiques (feel free to split those up between other clan members so one person isn't completely swamped.)
Also, if you have any questions or wish to discuss this contest, please post that in the Clan Council thread so as not to clutter this thread up (makes it easier when reviewing cards and what not.)
As always, have fun and good luck.
So a defensive card that involves the number 3 that doesn't tap... Let's make the final four guys!
Design (2/10): Hello Bogardan Hellkite Ripoff. Not much else to say really. Why couldn't this burninate + tutor up a dragon instead? Development (7/10): An absolute beating in limited and a strong potential for constructed play, with pretty much no potential for abuse. It's also very flavorful, too bad they stole the flavor from Bogardan Hellkite. Polish (3/5): Can't really argue with AI here.
Total: 12/25
Design (4/10): The card does combine some red, blue, and green abilities together, but I'm expecting something new here rather than a retread of old cards (Global Sleep and Firespout). The fact that the alt cost really only requires you to be playing green and have a creature in play isn't very helpful either. Development (5/10): The mana cost is fine by me, and the alt cost could be built around, but it lets you play this in mono green decks, which is an issue. I don't really see the flavor here. Polish (2/5): I take off more points for 3+ mistakes than AI does.
Total: 11/25
Design (9/10): See AI's post. I'm more inspired than he is by the concept though. Development (6/10): The Regular cost seems a little low, and as AI said, the alt cost doesn't restrict you to playing this in green or white. Polish (5/5): No Issues here.
Total: 20/25
Design (7/10):
As a top-down design, this is awesome. Hit a Creature, then the arrow keeps going to hit the creature behind it. Too bad it's restricted to attacking instead of attacking or blocking, and you NEED two targets to play this. I understand why this is mono red, as Lina Inverse is, but it certainly feels white too.
Development (4/10): In trying to cost it for constructed, they made it way too good in limited. At least your opponent can play around it, which makes for more interesting decisions, but the alt cost might be too easy to pull off. Polish (4/5): See AI's post.
Total: 15/25
My Top Three (Definitely in order):
1. The Pack - A very interesting build around me card, but it's probably a little too powerful. 2. Soundtrack - The walls make sense to me, no matter how boring they may appear. 3. MTGS Brigade - Highly likely to have balance issues, but I like the top-down flavor
Design: 8/10 = I'm not deducting points from any one particular section, but I do find that any card which slows the game down considerably as this is likely to do a poor design. I would've rather seen a creature that ends up being summoned on your opponent's side of the field with a comes into drawback that had to attack each turn so it could better combo with the original wall. The card itself is interesting, but boring when placed alongside the original wall.
Development: 9/10 - The rules work fine with this card and it doesn't seem over or under costed. I'm not sure if the nontoken clause is necessary on the alternate cost though, and it does stymie deck building ideas which I don't like. I'm not that big of a Pink Floyd buff, but I'll assume their flavor texts are relevant.
Polish: 3/5 - Meets both bonus criteria, but Wall isn't capitalized and it doesn't specify creature tokens. See Ant Queen.
Total: 20/25
Design: 5/10 = It's interesting because it gives you options when you play it, and does give a form of "discard" that seems reasonable in blue. I'm not sure who the target demographic is for this card, and the alternate cost, while meshing well with the design, seems a little steep and doesn't force the caster to play blue.
Development: 2/10 - There are many issues with this card development-wise. For starters, allowing someone to tutor as a cost seems like a big rules issue, as AI put it. Additionally, this card is very underpowered at 1UU for a regular cost. I can understand the creativity behind it, but flavor text and art would've helped.
Polish: 2/5 - Meets both bonus criteria, but that's all it does. Doesn't specify shuffling the opponent's library after they tutor, the "If you do" is unnecessary, and "that player puts the chosen cards on the bottom of his or her library" would simply specify to put them there, not to mention in any order. See Agonizing Memories.
So I just did some searching and found that DF, KoZ, and kaipalin all disappeared from our thread around January 20. Apparently kaipalin is still hanging around the standard forums, but as for our more senior members, does anybody have an idea as to their whereabouts?
I'd love to, but I will recommend SC over myself because he's more level-headed and less likely to get us involved in any counterproductive Clan Council politics.
This is perfectly understandable, and I pretty much agree with you on all points. The main reason we love you is your seniority, but I don't think that should be the end-all be-all of these decisions.
joboman, feel free to pick an empty apprentice spot to fill.
This card is just odd. Pro-white feels off and its second and third abilities still don't do anything on their own.
For reference, this is what I'm testing with:
Parahydrox2(U/R)(U/R)
Creature - Weird [R]
When Parahydrox enters the battlefield, exile any number of target instant or sorcery cards from target player's graveyard.
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell that shares a converted mana cost with a card exiled by Parahydrox, you may cast the exiled card without paying its mana cost. 3/3
So far it's been pretty safe. It turns out that putting potentially broken abilities on creatures tends to be safer than putting them on noncreature cards because creatures die a lot. I've yet to get double value out of Gifts Ungiven, but I did manage to use Cryptic Command twice to win a game.
I think it should be a little smaller, with 2/3 being my suggestion. Also, I'm sure the intent is to only play one of the exiled cards upon triggering, but I'm not 100% sure the wording conveys that. Perhaps limiting it to up to 3 instants or sorceries being exiled instead of any number would also be in order, but I don't think that's entirely necessary.
Given that I'm not capable of being as active as I once was here (though admittedly not in quite some time :rollout:), and that I foresee some further complications eating up my time throughout the week, I'm going to pass along the clan-rep status. AI is active, and has already impromptu-taken over for me, so he'd get my vote.
For God's sake, this is not an Instant Messenger conversation. What you post here will be sticking around for a while, so try to make it look presentable.
Issues with your card...
1. That effect goes on an enchantment, not a sorcery.
2. That's not how you word it. If you're going to design cards, use proper templating.
The problem, as I stated, was that some people would not know that it let you chain all the spells you RFG'd, and for those who did, would think that was not our intent. In the called thread, they specifically gutted our points BECAUSE it appeared we didn't know what our card did. The much easier to understand wording, where you play all of the removed spells on the first trigger, simply would've worked better in all regards.
And it doesn't really change its power level, as anyone who was going to kill it probably would've done it before you got a chance to play a spell to trigger it.
Eds: DF, KoZ, and kaipalin have all been officially prodded and have until Friday to get their cans in gear. I don't expect a reply from Keeper as he's apparently fallen off the face of the earth, I understand DF has IRL issues so I think she'd be better suited as a friend, and I'm not sure what to expect from kai.
I don't know about broken, but it's such a cool design that people didn't care. I'm not surprised we're out; I made my thoughts known for Triplicate, and surprise surprise, we lost points for exactly what I said we would.
I hate to insinuate horrible things, but it seems like the Called would always hate our card more than everyone else, and we would return the favor to them. It might just be our demographics clashing, but it seemed just a little ridiculous to me.
Either way, we didn't deserve a top 4 slot. Only one of our designs was really good in my opinion, and we managed to give it such an unclear wording so that it raised way too many questions, and appeared unintentionally overpowered.
Next time, try listening to me. Just because everyone here likes the card doesn't mean it appeals to everyone in the other clans...
I'm too lazy to post in depth analysis, but I'm pretty sure my top three are:
1. The Pack
2. Called
3. Clan Mono U
Anyways, my quick impressions on the submissions for the contest:
Mindweave (CMU) - Even if you go all the way, you're just going to end up milling all your opponent's lands. I'd like it more if the repeating this process was optional. It is a pretty aggressive miller.
Flash Gordon (Soundtrack) - A rules nightmare and it's got spelling errors to boot. Also doesn't include the non-core set keyword. Don't know if I would consider it offensive...
Incendiary Guivre (Called) - I love how it can deal at most 6 damage either way if you just want to chuck it at something, be it your opponent' head or one of his/her guys. Not sure why it's green though.
Ulfur's Avenger (The Pack) - They hit it out of the park again. Such a cool combination of abilities. It might be a tad overpowered (I'd make it 2/1 or 2/2), but creatures need pushing nowadays so that isn't too much of an issue.
1. Other clans might not "Get" the usage of three in the title, whether or not the clan council agrees with it or not.
2. Likewise, other clans might not "Get" why it's defensive, because it appears as a combo card first and foremost.
3. Other clans wight be put off by the simplistic double Fork design.
It's a cool and elegant card, don't get me wrong, but we are pretty much guaranteed to lose if we submit it this round.
Here's an idea I had; it may need balancing.
Veil of Storms 3UU
Instant
Put three 3/3 blue Weird creature tokens with flying, defender, and "When this card is put into a graveyard from the battlefield, draw a card." onto the battlefield. Exile them at the beginning of the next end step.
It's got limited applications, so perhaps a cool counter is in order.
~Insert Cool One Word Name Here~ XUU
Instant
Counter target spell unless its controller pays X. Draw a card.
Might be a little too simple, but it's a design I think people would like.
Reminds me of Radiate in that it'll probably have lots of unrealized potential. Also, how is this exactly defensive?
So a defensive card that involves the number 3 that doesn't tap... Let's make the final four guys!
Development (7/10): An absolute beating in limited and a strong potential for constructed play, with pretty much no potential for abuse. It's also very flavorful, too bad they stole the flavor from Bogardan Hellkite.
Polish (3/5): Can't really argue with AI here.
Total: 12/25
Development (5/10): The mana cost is fine by me, and the alt cost could be built around, but it lets you play this in mono green decks, which is an issue. I don't really see the flavor here.
Polish (2/5): I take off more points for 3+ mistakes than AI does.
Total: 11/25
Development (6/10): The Regular cost seems a little low, and as AI said, the alt cost doesn't restrict you to playing this in green or white.
Polish (5/5): No Issues here.
Total: 20/25
Development (4/10): In trying to cost it for constructed, they made it way too good in limited. At least your opponent can play around it, which makes for more interesting decisions, but the alt cost might be too easy to pull off.
Polish (4/5): See AI's post.
Total: 15/25
My Top Three (Definitely in order):
1. The Pack - A very interesting build around me card, but it's probably a little too powerful.
2. Soundtrack - The walls make sense to me, no matter how boring they may appear.
3. MTGS Brigade - Highly likely to have balance issues, but I like the top-down flavor
Development: 9/10 - The rules work fine with this card and it doesn't seem over or under costed. I'm not sure if the nontoken clause is necessary on the alternate cost though, and it does stymie deck building ideas which I don't like. I'm not that big of a Pink Floyd buff, but I'll assume their flavor texts are relevant.
Polish: 3/5 - Meets both bonus criteria, but Wall isn't capitalized and it doesn't specify creature tokens. See Ant Queen.
Total: 20/25
Development: 2/10 - There are many issues with this card development-wise. For starters, allowing someone to tutor as a cost seems like a big rules issue, as AI put it. Additionally, this card is very underpowered at 1UU for a regular cost. I can understand the creativity behind it, but flavor text and art would've helped.
Polish: 2/5 - Meets both bonus criteria, but that's all it does. Doesn't specify shuffling the opponent's library after they tutor, the "If you do" is unnecessary, and "that player puts the chosen cards on the bottom of his or her library" would simply specify to put them there, not to mention in any order. See Agonizing Memories.
Total: 9/25
I'll get to the rest later.
It looks very nice, now if only we could replace the background...
This is perfectly understandable, and I pretty much agree with you on all points. The main reason we love you is your seniority, but I don't think that should be the end-all be-all of these decisions.
joboman, feel free to pick an empty apprentice spot to fill.
I think it should be a little smaller, with 2/3 being my suggestion. Also, I'm sure the intent is to only play one of the exiled cards upon triggering, but I'm not 100% sure the wording conveys that. Perhaps limiting it to up to 3 instants or sorceries being exiled instead of any number would also be in order, but I don't think that's entirely necessary.
I have no objections.