I play ponder in favor over standstill standstill felt bad in some match ups
Agreed. I also lost some matches by limiting my tempo by playing standstill. I realized that after the fact. As much as I love standstill I don't think it works in some metas.
That being said, I play R/U Fish with bolt. I started running brainstorms since I have fetches. It almost functions like a risk free standstill with a fetch. Great!
I'm also not entirely convinced yet that TNN is a godly card. When it hits it is great, yes, but it is a bit slow. It mostly improves our bad match ups, right? It gives us inevitability. I definitely DO NOT agree with running him as a 4 of. Does anyone agree?
Hey guys!! I will be going to a local legacy event on Sunday and I want to go back to my fishes after playing miracles for quite a long time. I run a pretty standard merfolk list:
I am not sure I am happy with Dismember maindeck anymore (also it does not much against my meta as you will see bellow) and I would like to swap it with something else. I have seen some successful lists of the last few months and they have small variations like Gitaxian Probe and Repeal, so I might test them. Also I was thinking maybe a third Spell Pierce and Phantasmal Image. Do you have any suggestions on that?
Most importantly what sideboard suggestions do you have for a meta with Omni-Show, Sneak Attack, Grixis, Stoneblade and Dredge??
Try Thassa. She would seem good in a controlish build like yours (until the new merfolk comes out anyway).
Assuming Identity Nemesis is a Merfolk, I can potentially see it being run in either 1) the flex spots that Phantasmal Image currently occupies or 2) the sideboard to come in vs non-combo decks.
That being said, it does have some marks against it. Namely the cost, and the fact that it would be pretty much the only fish that has no impact when it comes into play. Could its efficient Power to CMC ratio and pro-removal overcome these weaknesses? Potentially, but the fact that Merfolk is almost entirely 2 drops at this point is one of its strong suites, especially when compared to other Aether Vial decks, and this guy throws (another) wrench into that.
If he had one more ability (flash, cantrip, peek, scry, bounce, etc) I'd be on board to immediately testing this guy as a 3 of. As it stands, I'm going to place myself into the This-guy-is-the-next-Wake Thrasher camp and say he won't see much play once the hype (assuming there is any) settles down.
Well said. Being as I am testing Thassa at the moment he will replace her in that slot. He can end stale mates and help you recover if you're being hit with big dudes.
Man I love playing standstill, but now that I see this guy I may need to cut them to go the aggro route. He seems so good! Cutting standstill really hits our CA though. How do you guys make up the CA without standstill?
How has MoW been for you? I don't like him because he seems very win more. If you are losing he comes in with 1 other dude. He doesn't pump your other merfolk, and he doesn't provide you with enough advantage to stabilize.
I like Jitte in the mainboard. Do you think its the right call?
I always found jitte great against tribal and midrange decks, but a tad too slow. That is why I started running bolt. I would rather run another counter spell in its place. I'm testing out a Thassa in Jitte's place right now. It is working well right now.
It gives me a decent mid game, fixed draws (card quality), a big body, and unblockability vs nonblue decks.
Well yes, I concede that usually the damage calculations will tip Thassa into the nay column, but my point is actually that her other abilities can greatly improve some match ups.
I've found myself in my situations unable to beat through for the final damage, chumping big dudes while trying to stabilize, and drawing way too many lands, aether vials, or counters when I wanted threats. The fact that she helps in those situations AND has a big body is quite a positive for me. She can also help me draw into sideboard cards.
I'd also like to note that I'm running the full, typical package of folk (including 2 image) and running her in the flex slots.
We are a tempo deck, but lets face the fact that we get stomped on by certain colors and strategies. I think she could balance it a bit (I'm only advocating her as a 1-2 of).
If I compare them in a vacuum I'd rather have Thassa than any more (extra) images and over a bolt as well as over a merfolk sovereign.
I'm testing Thassa(testing as a 1 of). She gets that last bit of damage through if you cannot win in combat and secures your draws for the rest of the game if you are losing. It also helps you dig for sideboard answers. People are really underestimating her. I wouldn't run more than 1-2 of her mainboard though as you never want to draw multiples.
What do others think of her?
My current list:
Lands:
20 Lands
Creatures:
4 Curse Catcher
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
Enchantments:
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Standstill
Another list just top 16d a scg with 1 fow in the 75 and 3 counterspells main.
Now, I wouldn't argue that the deck gets better with less force, but this isn't the first time this has happened. FOW is pretty great in this deck because you have so much blue. Still, card advantage is hard to eke out. Counterspell 1 for 1s instead of 2 for 1s, and works well with vial.
It may not be completely incorrect to play fewer forces and it seems to be a perfectly legitimate budget route for the deck.
But it is contra to the entire point of force of will. It allows us to drop threats and attack while keeping the mana open. I wouldn't suggest running 1, but maybe 3 is okay.
Running counterspell is possible depending on your mana base, but with 8 colorless lands it could prove quite difficult.
I've been testing Thassa lately and I have to admit that she has proven to be pretty amazing. She comes online usually on turn 4. Her scry on the upkeep was so useful and kept me drawing gas. After she came online she helped me chump big knights, goyfs, etc. She also provides pseudo island walk. She is not totally immune to destruction though. Edict effects and swords to plowshares got her, but she does take the heat off of our lords. I'm overall very happy running her as a 2 of in a standstill build.
I like the card, but at the same time I think it basically does the same job as Submerge. This will hit Goblins, and Submerge doesn't, but it's still not going really help against Goblins all that much anyways because they still have a superior lategame, virtually immune to countermagic, and pro blue on Piledriver.
And against any other deck that you would bring this in against, I don't think you want this more than Submerge, but I'm not 100% certain on that. Submerge will handle any threat against Gxx decks not just green and red duders, and costing 0 mana is so huge.
It is miles better than submerge. It hits red, permanently solves the problem (until removed), and also beats (and is pumped).
Glad to hear that I'm not the only one. I felt like an outcast advocating 1-2 of him in the md. Everyone else has the fever.
Agreed. I also lost some matches by limiting my tempo by playing standstill. I realized that after the fact. As much as I love standstill I don't think it works in some metas.
That being said, I play R/U Fish with bolt. I started running brainstorms since I have fetches. It almost functions like a risk free standstill with a fetch. Great!
I'm also not entirely convinced yet that TNN is a godly card. When it hits it is great, yes, but it is a bit slow. It mostly improves our bad match ups, right? It gives us inevitability. I definitely DO NOT agree with running him as a 4 of. Does anyone agree?
Try Thassa. She would seem good in a controlish build like yours (until the new merfolk comes out anyway).
Lands:
20 lands
Spells:
4 Force
4 Daze
4 Bolt
Artifacts:
4 Vial
Creatures:
2 True Name Nemesis
4 Curse Catcher
4 Silvergil Adept
8 Lords
4 Rejereey
2 Image
Sideboard:
2 Submerge
1 Curse of the Swine
2 REB
2 Fire/Ice
4 Spell Pierce
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Relic of Progenitus
Well said. Being as I am testing Thassa at the moment he will replace her in that slot. He can end stale mates and help you recover if you're being hit with big dudes.
If it is not then how do we squeeze it into the deck?
I always found jitte great against tribal and midrange decks, but a tad too slow. That is why I started running bolt. I would rather run another counter spell in its place. I'm testing out a Thassa in Jitte's place right now. It is working well right now.
It gives me a decent mid game, fixed draws (card quality), a big body, and unblockability vs nonblue decks.
I've found myself in my situations unable to beat through for the final damage, chumping big dudes while trying to stabilize, and drawing way too many lands, aether vials, or counters when I wanted threats. The fact that she helps in those situations AND has a big body is quite a positive for me. She can also help me draw into sideboard cards.
I'd also like to note that I'm running the full, typical package of folk (including 2 image) and running her in the flex slots.
We are a tempo deck, but lets face the fact that we get stomped on by certain colors and strategies. I think she could balance it a bit (I'm only advocating her as a 1-2 of).
If I compare them in a vacuum I'd rather have Thassa than any more (extra) images and over a bolt as well as over a merfolk sovereign.
What do others think of her?
My current list:
Lands:
20 Lands
Creatures:
4 Curse Catcher
4 Silvergil Adept
4 Lord of Atlantis
4 Master of the Pearl Trident
4 Merrow Reejerey
2 Phantasmal Image
Enchantments:
1 Thassa, God of the Sea
3 Standstill
Instants:
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Lightning Bolt
Artifacts:
4 Aether Vial
But it is contra to the entire point of force of will. It allows us to drop threats and attack while keeping the mana open. I wouldn't suggest running 1, but maybe 3 is okay.
Running counterspell is possible depending on your mana base, but with 8 colorless lands it could prove quite difficult.
http://media-dominaria.cursecdn.com/attachments/112/202/635201278392614256.jpg
It is miles better than submerge. It hits red, permanently solves the problem (until removed), and also beats (and is pumped).