EDIT: I seem to have gotten beaten to posting things while I was typing >.<
Don't worry, yours is a lot easier to read than mine I do think that Precursor Golem will be very good in this kind of deck though. It just seems custom-made for stompy decks, and a lot of people seem to be undervaluing it by not realizing that destroying it is a 1-for-1 and not a 3-for-1. I actually think we both missed another good card though: Chimeric Mass. It ends up being a 4/4 for 5 (like several other things) when necessary, and it dodges non-instant creature removal like Flame Slash and Day of Judgment and Gatekeeper of Malakir quite handily. I could see it as a good sideboard card.
Does Infiltration Lens have any room in a super-aggro deck like Mono-Green?
Extra card draw in Green would be great but I can't see myself cutting any Stampedes/Monuments for it. That leaves cutting out Garruk or 2-3 creatures...
I don't see why not. They're either going to be taking tons of damage, losing card advantage in the form of their dying creatures while you gain massive card advantage, or using up their removal exactly where you want it. I wouldn't take creatures out for it though.
So I'm kinda new around here. I usually just watch the Rumor Mill, but this time I thought I'd make a real post in a real deck thread. The reason being, I recently finished a summer-long stint of FNM with some friends, and I felt like sharing the deck that brought me so much satisfaction during that time. I'm taking a break from FNM and really everything but casual/release events for a while, and I feel it's time to move on to new ideas, so I won't be playing this exact deck again. It was played 4 times at FNM, three times by yours truly and once by a friend, and each time it went 4-1 (4th, 4th, 5th, 5th).
It should probably be noted that it started as an Elf deck with Khalni Hydra and Momentous Fall, and evolved into something more interesting over time. It could doubtless use improvements on several fronts, but it worked well enough for a leisurely time at FNM. Here are some explanations for card choices, although most of them should be obvious:
4 Llanowar Elves - part of the original elf engine. Powers up archdruids and gets three-drops on turn 2.
4 Arbor Elf - 5-8 llanowars to make sure you get one in the opening hand.
4 Elvish Archdruid - drop choice #3 on turn 2. Provides fuel for Wolfbriars and makes the other elves useful in attacking. Its actual best use is a decoy for people who are scared of elf decks.
4 Mul Daya Channelers - drop chioce #2 on turn 2, huge beef or 5-8 of the archdruid. Use fetchlands to make it what you want. Max 9-10 noncreature spells in deck make it usually useful.
4 Leatherback Baloth - drop choice #1 on turn 2, always huge beef. Great with turn 3 attack -> opponent removes -> Momentous Fall using lands + llanowar.
4 Wolfbriar Elemental - ton of beef, wish I could have 8 of it. Mana dump and great even if not kicked.
3 Obstinate Baloth - tons of Jund and RDW in my meta, got it from the sideboard so much I eventually maindecked it. A good switch in for Momentous Fall against discard if you're sideboarding it.
2 Mitotic Slime - for Jund and the UW control that always pops up in my meta. Very effective at getting the kill with Overwhelming Stampede, even if the spell only gives a small boost for each.
3 Overwhelming Stampede - win condition that works well with a few 4/4s or a lot of 2/2 elves. Got a LOT of rogue wins due to producing just enough power to win.
3 Eldrazi Monument - win condition most effective against Jund. Don't play it if you only have a few fatties and no llanowar sac-fodder unless it means the win. May be even more effective in the future against Elspeth Tiriel.
3 Momentous Fall - my favorite card in the deck. Gamebreaking when applicable, useless when not. Don't be afraid to sac a 2/2 archdruid to it. Got sided out a lot for vines, however, so might be best as a side against other green aggro.
2 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Misty Rainforest - would probably have used more if I had them. Thins deck and gets the channelers into the right mode.
4 Great Sable Stag - phenomenal against Jund. There are also a lot of GWB and UB variants at my shop, and this works well against them. Too bad it's rotating out.
3 Vines of Vastwood - anti-card disadvantage and pseudo removal for larger opposing creatures. Substitute in over Momentous Fall to keep the right noncreature spell ratio. Could stand to be a 4-of.
3 Acidic Slime - never needed to use this once. Actual use is vs. other green monument decks. Best replaced by Sylvok Replica once Scars comes around.
2 Kozilek's Predator - used to be Garruk's Companion. Never really used these, but they're for the mirror to give more beef. Would probably be something better in Scars.
1 Mitotic Slime - extra anti-removal vs Jund and UW control.
1 Eldrazi Monument - sub in over an Overwhelming Stampede against UW control and Jund.
1 Overwhelming Stampede - sub in over an Eldrazi Monument against removal-light decks.
Cards that got cut:
> Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper - great when you land it turn 3, not so great when you play an attacker turn 2. Ended up being too expensive and win-more most of the time. Could still be a nice sideboard against other green decks, I suppose.
> Elvish Visionary - the only two-drop, which the deck sorely misses. It often just didn't do enough, however, and I'd sideboard it out for the Obstinate Baloths. Could perhaps be added back in (in the form of Sylvan Ranger) given more sideboard space for the baloths. Fauna Shaman might work well, too.
> Joraga Warcaller - from the old elf version of the deck. Went away when I put more non-elf things in, and Wolfbriar is a better mana-sink anyway.
> Garruk's Packleader - works ok as beef and card advantage, but mainboard mitotic worked out better in general.
Other cards that might be useful now or in the future:
> More sac lands - the life doesn't hurt much, and you want those channelers in the right mode.
> Vengevine - I'm not made of money so I had none. I think it would be useful, but this deck only sometimes plays multiple creatures a turn. Would be good with Fauna Shaman, of course.
> Fauna Shaman - could be a good replacement for the old Elvish Visionary, since it keeps the elf count up at 2 mana.
> Nest Invader - probably should have tried this as a two-drop, but never got around to it.
> Bellowing Tanglewurm (Scars) - more redundancy in evasion. Would probably put the mainboard mitotics in the sideboard over Kozilek's Predators to make room for these mainboard, especially since a lot of the removal is going away and mitotics might not be as necessary.
> Precursor Golem (Scars) - another candidate to replace the mitotics mainboard. So much beef, and if removed you've only lost a 3/3 for 5, which isn't so bad. Nuts with the deck's win conditions and still amazing without.
> Wurmcoil Engine (Scars) - works well if you get the magical 6-mana turn 3. Might be a good replacement for the mitotics. Has the same problems as Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper, however.
> Copperhorn Scout (Scars) - keeps the elf count up and provides a massive wall of meat on the opponent's turn. Usually I killed them by attacking before they could kill me with attacking, though.
> Withstand Death (Scars) - when people start running Day more due to creature-based (infect, grand architect, myr tribal) Scars strategy, this might be better than Vines. Maybe.
> Sylvok Replica (Scars) - will probably replace Acidic Slime in the sideboard.
> Infiltration Lens (Scars) - a possible replacement for the Momentous Falls. If they block your 5/5 channelers, you get a ton of card advantage. Multiple lenses on your team is even more ridiculous.
Other thoughts gleaned from experience:
> Due to the lack of a 2-drop and low land count, aggressive mulligans are sometimes indicated. It's not impossible to win without a turn 1 llanowar, but it severely hampers you (a good thing since a turn 1-2 bolt on the turn 1 llanowar hurts like hell). Hands with 1 land and 1 llanowar are usually just fine. Again, putting the Obstinate Baloths in the sideboard and mainboarding 3x Nest Invaders or another useful 2-drop would probably be the next step for this deck. Dropping a llanowar for a 23rd land might be acceptable as well, although risky.
> On turn 2, the play priority is: leatherback, channelers, archdruid. Meat before ramps is always the best.
> The deck has problems with creatures larger than it, which is half the reason for vines. Thankfully its archnemesis Knight of the Reliquary is going out, but vines is still well-used killing a huge blocker or baneslayer.
> With Great Sable Stag going out, Autumn's Veil may be indicated depending on the meta. For creature protection vines is still better, but you gotta do what you gotta do against counterspells not named Mana Leak (for which you usually have plenty of mana). Just have to keep the noncreature spell ratio correct when siding.
> Always go for it if it would do any good at all. If you can't win with a stampede, then play a wolfbriar and get in when you can. This deck (and green decks in general) does not reward sitting on your laurels.
Important matchups (that I can remember):
> UW Control - +1 Eldrazi Monument/-1 Overwhelming Stampede, +1 Mitotic Slime/-1 Obstinate Baloth, +3 Vines of Vastwood/-3 Momentous Fall
Abuse the vines to get through for damage/reduce losses from single-target removal/kill walls of omens and baneslayers. Try to get the mitotics and monuments out fast, and always save some mana elves in your hand in case you get blown out. Use sac-lands to deal with Jace fateseal, and attack planeswalkers only if you absolutely have to (to keep them from going off or if they're named Gideon Jura).
> Aggro decks (allies, mirror, GWx) - sideboard depends on the opponent's deck. Exchanging a monument for the fourth stampede is almost always indicated, and vines may be useful if they have lots of removal alongside or creatures of insurmountable size (otherwise Momentous Fall should be fine). Racing them is the key.
> RDW - think about bringing in the last mitotic and perhaps another stampede. Vines usually isn't necessary, but keep them in mind. Priority goes to both baloths since they are good at standing up to red.
Well, these are most of my thoughts on this deck type at the moment. Perhaps some of them will be of use to a fellow green aggro player in the future. As someone who plays best by attacking with creatures, I enjoyed piloting this deck very much, and I leave it with fond memories. I may try an artifact version of this deck with the metalcraft dudes (Carapace Forger/Ezuri's Brigade + Momentous Fall = awesome) come winter, but we'll just have to see what comes up. Thanks to those who read the wall of text, and keep on swinging!
And for the record, I choose neither. I've often won on two lands, preferring to keep my mana curve tight with the highest cmc spell at 5, which is already pushing it imo. Losing to manascrew isn't fun, so I prefer to minimize the impact of that particular circumstance as much as possible.
When I first saw the Intimidate guy, I was like "OMFG AWSM!!!11" until I realized how hard they were pushing artifact creatures like Myr. That's one of the first 4/4's for 5 I've liked in awhile (besides Mitotic to an extent) because of the way he can possibly affect the boardstate, but I think it'll really depend on the soon-to-be-chaotic meta to determine his worth in MGA.
I agree with your sentiments on Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper for exactly the same reasons. As for the wurm, the abundance of artifact creatures doesn't really bother me much. If people play artifact blockers, Naturalize and Sylvok Replica both become "destroy target would-be blocker." This may still be a problem against Wurmcoil Engine, but I think the intimidate wurm should still do plenty when attacking with the team, especially if they only have half a field of artifact creatures. I'm not sure I would pick it over Precursor Golem, however.
Artifacts can block it, sure, so if only it were in the main color for artifact removal...
I believe this card can make it in T2, actually.
Yeah. It's more redundancy in green evasion (on top of Eldrazi Monument and Overwhelming Stampede), which can only be better. Even if the opponent runs lots of artifact creatures, that's just allowing the green player to use Naturalize and Acidic Slime and other things as an easy "destroy target creature," in green of all colors.
Heh, looks like Troll Ascetic has been spreading his doctrine :3 As someone who often plays green, I love Asceticism and I can't wait to try using it. All the same, I can't help but feel that it's still outclassed by Eldrazi Monument...
Vampires in Scars would be fun with all the Zendikar stuff, but...I can't help thinking that some new Phyrexians are going to come and show vampires what black is really about
Back on topic, I would actually also like to see Faith's Fetters back. It's a bit high at 4, but it shuts down a lot of things, including planeswalkers.
We are dealing with lots of counters after all. Sunburst and Infest...
That's what I was thinking too. It would be a really nice way to make up for all the Planeswalker removal that's going out. I could certainly see a new version that removes poison counters somehow, but that may be a little too powerful, depending on how heavily the set relies on poisoning people to death.
Don't worry, yours is a lot easier to read than mine
I don't see why not. They're either going to be taking tons of damage, losing card advantage in the form of their dying creatures while you gain massive card advantage, or using up their removal exactly where you want it. I wouldn't take creatures out for it though.
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Arbor Elf
4 Elvish Archdruid
4 Mul Daya Channelers
4 Leatherback Baloth
4 Wolfbriar Elemental
3 Obstinate Baloth
2 Mitotic Slime
3 Overwhelming Stampede
3 Eldrazi Monument
3 Momentous Fall
Lands
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
18 Forest
4 Great Sable Stag
3 Vines of Vastwood
3 Acidic Slime
2 Kozilek's Predator
1 Mitotic Slime
1 Eldrazi Monument
1 Overwhelming Stampede
It should probably be noted that it started as an Elf deck with Khalni Hydra and Momentous Fall, and evolved into something more interesting over time. It could doubtless use improvements on several fronts, but it worked well enough for a leisurely time at FNM. Here are some explanations for card choices, although most of them should be obvious:
4 Llanowar Elves - part of the original elf engine. Powers up archdruids and gets three-drops on turn 2.
4 Arbor Elf - 5-8 llanowars to make sure you get one in the opening hand.
4 Elvish Archdruid - drop choice #3 on turn 2. Provides fuel for Wolfbriars and makes the other elves useful in attacking. Its actual best use is a decoy for people who are scared of elf decks.
4 Mul Daya Channelers - drop chioce #2 on turn 2, huge beef or 5-8 of the archdruid. Use fetchlands to make it what you want. Max 9-10 noncreature spells in deck make it usually useful.
4 Leatherback Baloth - drop choice #1 on turn 2, always huge beef. Great with turn 3 attack -> opponent removes -> Momentous Fall using lands + llanowar.
4 Wolfbriar Elemental - ton of beef, wish I could have 8 of it. Mana dump and great even if not kicked.
3 Obstinate Baloth - tons of Jund and RDW in my meta, got it from the sideboard so much I eventually maindecked it. A good switch in for Momentous Fall against discard if you're sideboarding it.
2 Mitotic Slime - for Jund and the UW control that always pops up in my meta. Very effective at getting the kill with Overwhelming Stampede, even if the spell only gives a small boost for each.
3 Overwhelming Stampede - win condition that works well with a few 4/4s or a lot of 2/2 elves. Got a LOT of rogue wins due to producing just enough power to win.
3 Eldrazi Monument - win condition most effective against Jund. Don't play it if you only have a few fatties and no llanowar sac-fodder unless it means the win. May be even more effective in the future against Elspeth Tiriel.
3 Momentous Fall - my favorite card in the deck. Gamebreaking when applicable, useless when not. Don't be afraid to sac a 2/2 archdruid to it. Got sided out a lot for vines, however, so might be best as a side against other green aggro.
2 Verdant Catacombs, 2 Misty Rainforest - would probably have used more if I had them. Thins deck and gets the channelers into the right mode.
4 Great Sable Stag - phenomenal against Jund. There are also a lot of GWB and UB variants at my shop, and this works well against them. Too bad it's rotating out.
3 Vines of Vastwood - anti-card disadvantage and pseudo removal for larger opposing creatures. Substitute in over Momentous Fall to keep the right noncreature spell ratio. Could stand to be a 4-of.
3 Acidic Slime - never needed to use this once. Actual use is vs. other green monument decks. Best replaced by Sylvok Replica once Scars comes around.
2 Kozilek's Predator - used to be Garruk's Companion. Never really used these, but they're for the mirror to give more beef. Would probably be something better in Scars.
1 Mitotic Slime - extra anti-removal vs Jund and UW control.
1 Eldrazi Monument - sub in over an Overwhelming Stampede against UW control and Jund.
1 Overwhelming Stampede - sub in over an Eldrazi Monument against removal-light decks.
Cards that got cut:
> Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper - great when you land it turn 3, not so great when you play an attacker turn 2. Ended up being too expensive and win-more most of the time. Could still be a nice sideboard against other green decks, I suppose.
> Elvish Visionary - the only two-drop, which the deck sorely misses. It often just didn't do enough, however, and I'd sideboard it out for the Obstinate Baloths. Could perhaps be added back in (in the form of Sylvan Ranger) given more sideboard space for the baloths. Fauna Shaman might work well, too.
> Joraga Warcaller - from the old elf version of the deck. Went away when I put more non-elf things in, and Wolfbriar is a better mana-sink anyway.
> Garruk's Packleader - works ok as beef and card advantage, but mainboard mitotic worked out better in general.
Other cards that might be useful now or in the future:
> More sac lands - the life doesn't hurt much, and you want those channelers in the right mode.
> Vengevine - I'm not made of money so I had none. I think it would be useful, but this deck only sometimes plays multiple creatures a turn. Would be good with Fauna Shaman, of course.
> Fauna Shaman - could be a good replacement for the old Elvish Visionary, since it keeps the elf count up at 2 mana.
> Nest Invader - probably should have tried this as a two-drop, but never got around to it.
> Bellowing Tanglewurm (Scars) - more redundancy in evasion. Would probably put the mainboard mitotics in the sideboard over Kozilek's Predators to make room for these mainboard, especially since a lot of the removal is going away and mitotics might not be as necessary.
> Precursor Golem (Scars) - another candidate to replace the mitotics mainboard. So much beef, and if removed you've only lost a 3/3 for 5, which isn't so bad. Nuts with the deck's win conditions and still amazing without.
> Wurmcoil Engine (Scars) - works well if you get the magical 6-mana turn 3. Might be a good replacement for the mitotics. Has the same problems as Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper, however.
> Copperhorn Scout (Scars) - keeps the elf count up and provides a massive wall of meat on the opponent's turn. Usually I killed them by attacking before they could kill me with attacking, though.
> Withstand Death (Scars) - when people start running Day more due to creature-based (infect, grand architect, myr tribal) Scars strategy, this might be better than Vines. Maybe.
> Sylvok Replica (Scars) - will probably replace Acidic Slime in the sideboard.
> Infiltration Lens (Scars) - a possible replacement for the Momentous Falls. If they block your 5/5 channelers, you get a ton of card advantage. Multiple lenses on your team is even more ridiculous.
Other thoughts gleaned from experience:
> Due to the lack of a 2-drop and low land count, aggressive mulligans are sometimes indicated. It's not impossible to win without a turn 1 llanowar, but it severely hampers you (a good thing since a turn 1-2 bolt on the turn 1 llanowar hurts like hell). Hands with 1 land and 1 llanowar are usually just fine. Again, putting the Obstinate Baloths in the sideboard and mainboarding 3x Nest Invaders or another useful 2-drop would probably be the next step for this deck. Dropping a llanowar for a 23rd land might be acceptable as well, although risky.
> On turn 2, the play priority is: leatherback, channelers, archdruid. Meat before ramps is always the best.
> The deck has problems with creatures larger than it, which is half the reason for vines. Thankfully its archnemesis Knight of the Reliquary is going out, but vines is still well-used killing a huge blocker or baneslayer.
> With Great Sable Stag going out, Autumn's Veil may be indicated depending on the meta. For creature protection vines is still better, but you gotta do what you gotta do against counterspells not named Mana Leak (for which you usually have plenty of mana). Just have to keep the noncreature spell ratio correct when siding.
> Always go for it if it would do any good at all. If you can't win with a stampede, then play a wolfbriar and get in when you can. This deck (and green decks in general) does not reward sitting on your laurels.
Important matchups (that I can remember):
> UW Control - +1 Eldrazi Monument/-1 Overwhelming Stampede, +1 Mitotic Slime/-1 Obstinate Baloth, +3 Vines of Vastwood/-3 Momentous Fall
Abuse the vines to get through for damage/reduce losses from single-target removal/kill walls of omens and baneslayers. Try to get the mitotics and monuments out fast, and always save some mana elves in your hand in case you get blown out. Use sac-lands to deal with Jace fateseal, and attack planeswalkers only if you absolutely have to (to keep them from going off or if they're named Gideon Jura).
> Aggro decks (allies, mirror, GWx) - sideboard depends on the opponent's deck. Exchanging a monument for the fourth stampede is almost always indicated, and vines may be useful if they have lots of removal alongside or creatures of insurmountable size (otherwise Momentous Fall should be fine). Racing them is the key.
> RDW - think about bringing in the last mitotic and perhaps another stampede. Vines usually isn't necessary, but keep them in mind. Priority goes to both baloths since they are good at standing up to red.
Well, these are most of my thoughts on this deck type at the moment. Perhaps some of them will be of use to a fellow green aggro player in the future. As someone who plays best by attacking with creatures, I enjoyed piloting this deck very much, and I leave it with fond memories. I may try an artifact version of this deck with the metalcraft dudes (Carapace Forger/Ezuri's Brigade + Momentous Fall = awesome) come winter, but we'll just have to see what comes up. Thanks to those who read the wall of text, and keep on swinging!
Also...
I agree with your sentiments on Khalni Hydra/Terra Stomper for exactly the same reasons. As for the wurm, the abundance of artifact creatures doesn't really bother me much. If people play artifact blockers, Naturalize and Sylvok Replica both become "destroy target would-be blocker." This may still be a problem against Wurmcoil Engine, but I think the intimidate wurm should still do plenty when attacking with the team, especially if they only have half a field of artifact creatures. I'm not sure I would pick it over Precursor Golem, however.
EDIT: typos.
Yeah. It's more redundancy in green evasion (on top of Eldrazi Monument and Overwhelming Stampede), which can only be better. Even if the opponent runs lots of artifact creatures, that's just allowing the green player to use Naturalize and Acidic Slime and other things as an easy "destroy target creature," in green of all colors.
Try saying it out loud and thinking 'foreplay.'
My casual Spellbook deck is going to loooove Venser's Journal
Kuldotha Forgemaster says hi!
I sure wish that arbiter had been around at the same time as Knight of the Reliquary q_q
Reminds me of
Umezawa's Jitte 2
Destroy target Umezawa's Jitte.
Back on topic, I would actually also like to see Faith's Fetters back. It's a bit high at 4, but it shuts down a lot of things, including planeswalkers.
That's what I was thinking too. It would be a really nice way to make up for all the Planeswalker removal that's going out. I could certainly see a new version that removes poison counters somehow, but that may be a little too powerful, depending on how heavily the set relies on poisoning people to death.