Never liked the Phoenix. It's clunky and dies to everything. I really want to like the hushwing but prefer end hostilities to deal with green (which is the hardest match-up anyways and where you'd bring the griffins in).
As for banishing light, you can play them but Pol should still be present. The hardest Creature to deal with though is storm breath. Which encourages me even more to keep playing them.
I kind of like erase but would play deicide instead just because of the extra utility. And to answer the question about what it'd be good against... Other banishing lights obviously. Wouldn't want to waste mine on one of those.
Please tell me what Creature with three toughness you possibly care about that warrants using a banishing light on? As for planeswalkers, there are really only two in the format that matter : sarkhan and Nissa. Of those two, only Nissa is a valid target (as pol hits sarkhan). You're undervaluing the instant speed factor and most importantly, the exile. In addition, your opponent can't interact with it once it resolves. So I'd say, for our functions, pol is better than bl. It deals with all the tough creatures in the format. Which is what this deck can struggle against.
These were taken from the top 8 lists from the two star city opens we've had so far.
All of those are easily remedied with an attacking mantis or a burn spell. The only card in there of relevance is keranos. But that means you're likely facing the mirror and it rarely will come down to that card.
As for devouring light, it has a condition where the Creature needs to attack or block and costs two white mana. It's not terrible but I still prefer being able to be proactive.
Pillar of Light is only useful in certain matchups. Banishing light is never a dead card. The opportunity cost is too high. You're also assuming you always have enough burn spells that you can afford to throw them at creatures. I might play pillar in the sideboard over suspension field, and even that's a stretch as I prefer the lower mana cost.
Yes, the pillars are in the sideboard, not main. The thing about the banishing light is that it's a defensive card, and it can be removed. The purpose of the Pol is about the same as the banishing light. In that you're going to use it to remove a threat. 90% of the time that threat will be a Creature. I suggest you keep an eye out on how often you use the bl on something else than a Creature. That should give you a good idea of why Pol is better for us. And I never have not had enough answers in my hand as we have plenty of draw power with the augury and the dtt.
I want to add that i don`t disagree with Banishing Light main deck (or side). I'm just arguing in favor of POL. At any rate, it's likely that the BL get sideboarded out game two as your opponent is likely to bring in enchantment removal. So why give them the opportunity to react to a play to blow you out?
Please tell me what Creature with three toughness you possibly care about that warrants using a banishing light on? As for planeswalkers, there are really only two in the format that matter : sarkhan and Nissa. Of those two, only Nissa is a valid target (as pol hits sarkhan). You're undervaluing the instant speed factor and most importantly, the exile. In addition, your opponent can't interact with it once it resolves. So I'd say, for our functions, pol is better than bl. It deals with all the tough creatures in the format. Which is what this deck can struggle against.
These were taken from the top 8 lists from the two star city opens we've had so far.
All of those are easily remedied with an attacking mantis or a burn spell. The only card in there of relevance is keranos. But that means you're likely facing the mirror and it rarely will come down to that card.
As for devouring light, it has a condition where the Creature needs to attack or block and costs two white mana. It's not terrible but I still prefer being able to be proactive.
This is exactly why I don't want to play banishing light. Pillar of light does exactly the same thing but way better. It also costs the same and can't be interacted with post-resolve.
Pillar of light doesn't do the same thing at all. Pillar can't target anything with toughness 3 or less and can't target nonland permanents.
Please tell me what Creature with three toughness you possibly care about that warrants using a banishing light on? As for planeswalkers, there are really only two in the format that matter : sarkhan and Nissa. Of those two, only Nissa is a valid target (as pol hits sarkhan). You're undervaluing the instant speed factor and most importantly, the exile. In addition, your opponent can't interact with it once it resolves. So I'd say, for our functions, pol is better than bl. It deals with all the tough creatures in the format. Which is what this deck can struggle against.
Match 1 was vs a homebrew U/G deck that didnt really really do anything. 2-0
Match 2 was against a Jeskai deck more control oriented. He resolved a Narset and blew my entire world up game 1.
+ all my strokes
+ Narset
+ keranos
+ negate
- all my seekers
- steam augury
- and something else
Games 2 and 3 I just help mana up with negate + stroke until I could burn him enough. 2-1
Match 3 was against a really good B/G deck, that was manily green enchantment ramp with doomwakes. I misplayed a bunch and can't really evaluate the match. 1-2
Match 4 was against an Ashiok esper control deck.
Game 1 he mana flooded.
Game 2 his deck did exactly what it was sposed to do and he blew me up.
Game 3 I had a great opening hand and got him down before I saw his Restoration Angel @___@
Match 5 was the Abzan ramp/rhino shell with Nissa and Elsepth.
Had a rough first game. Sided in Hushwings + strokes/negate
Killed me game 2 by banishing lighing my bansihing light that was on his rhino which enteres the battlefield...again :
This is exactly why I don't want to play banishing light. Pillar of light does exactly the same thing but way better. It also costs the same and can't be interacted with post-resolve.
I play tested some more, going back to creatures and I find that it's best when this deck is the aggressor (at least it's more fun) than when it's draw-go. I tried out the Stormbreaths maindeck (2 of) and boy are they are beating acting as Sarkhans 3-4. I have been, sadly, underwhelmed again by the Seeker. He's an awful top deck and just doesn't do enough to justify his presence. On top of that, he just dies immediately as my opponents do know what he can do. I wish there was a better two drop to play but sadly we're kind of stuck on this one. Might just replace with something that isn't a creature at all.
I think your main problem is the lack of respect for the green decks in your sideboard choices. Disdainful Stroke should be a 2 of minimum in the side, mainboarded it just seems awkward. Anger of the gods is a key card in the green matchup because not only does it kill Mystics, it kills Caryatid, Hornet Queen, and her Bees.
Ya the deck is more control but I've found that having the strokes main is just fine. There's no deck that it doesn't hit something significant. That's certainly not the issue. Green is just a tough matchup no matter how you want to look at it. I never found the Angers to be that useful, even to kill some mana dorks because frankly, Polukranos will come out on turn 3 or 4, he's a problem either way. I also don't care about Hornet queen since...I'm not playing any creatures it can interact with. At worse, I'll have to counter it (it does cost seven mana).
I love the creature build version of the deck, but I feel that with the way the format is playing out right now, there's just way too much removal to maximize its power. Perhaps when the next set releases, we'll have some new toys to add that will make it more lethal.
As for Chandra: In all honesty, I've always found her awkward in this deck. I have no way to protect her on the ground and ya sure, the random card once in a while is good, but most of the time, I won't want to cast it on my main phase (especially not when I reveal a DtT with 4 cards in my grave). That's why she's a one of. She might be much better in the creature version in higher numbers since most of your spells cost less than 4 mana anyways.
Ok, I've been dying to reply to this thread for a while to report my results and findings.
I originally ran a list that had the 4 Riders/Rabbles/Seekers. It performed fairly well only losing to Jeskai Ascendancy (there's almost no way you can win this matchup).
At any rate, my first observation was that the meta is infested with black players. So this means that everyone is running a crap ton of removal. Which means that your twelve guys aren't putting much pressure on your opponents. So top decking creatures passed turn six is awful. So I thought about how this list could be improved for the majority of the field. The toughest matchups I found have been those that are running green. Either mono-green or abzhan. The rhino is a pretty annoying creature. Hard to kill and gives your opponent time. I thought about the hushwing as well, but that's really the only matchup that you can play it in and so it's not really worth our while.
So how do we improve our decklist to hit the majority of the board with great effect? Well...this might mean that the deck has to evolve. And basically, that means cutting ALL the creatures. After putting something together, I basically crushed. Not just like barely win my matches, I crushed while all my opponents sat there, not knowing what to side in and sitting with half their hands useless (removal). On top of that, Thoughtseize becomes incredibly bad because it's a free 2 damage source and most of my spells are redundant. Despise hits practically nothing as well.
I played in a standard tournament this sunday and topped four losing to Abzhan and a Green/Red deck that was simply too powerful (I'll get into details).
Yes, this appears to be more in line with a control/burn deck. And I guess it was. In a field filled with removal and dudes, this deck was simply phenomenal (mostly). My opponents couldn't stick a threat and sat there with nothing but removal in hand while I slowly burned their face.
Round 1: Red/white Rabble
Quick 2-0 game as my opponent couldn't stick a threat down and sat there with a bunch of creature targeting spells. Game two he drew into 13 lands.
1-0
Round 2: Mardu
These games lasted a bit longer but again, my opponent sat there with a bunch of removal and couldn't stick a threat. I countered the relevant stuff and killed him with Keranos/Narset.
2-0
Round 3: Abzhan
This was tougher. I lost 2-1 mostly because I ran into some missed land drops, he over committed to the board while I had an end hostilities in hand, needing a fifth land. I drew it, but it was a temple...Game two was Fleecemane, fleecemane, fleeceman, monstrous. I couldn't find any burn in that game and just lost to that 4/4.
2-1
Round 4: Mono Black
Deflecting palm here was huge. It won me game one and game two he couldn't really play anything knowing that it either wouldn't stick or would kill him. It happened often that my opponent resolved to killing his own guys.
3-1
Top Four, Round 1: Green/Red scary stuff
This matchup was abysmal. Just abysmal. Every card he played was a massive answer me now threat (Nissa, Sarkhan, Dragon, Polukranos, Xenagos) and I simply did not have the resources to handle everything. I was quickly dispatched game 1. Game 2 was far more epic. He mulled to 4, on the draw (and still won, btw)while I had a normally unbeatable hand. We traded blows until he was down to 11 and me to 7. He had no cards in hand and was in top deck mode. On his turn, he tops Nissa, I counter it. On my turn I drop Narset, pass. He draws...casts Nissa with two lands untapped. I have a mindswipe in hand, but only 4 mana. I hit him for 2, putting him down to 9. It resolves. He animates a land. I'm tapped out. Go down to 3. I draw (land). I have a stoke the flames in hand. I'm feeling pretty good. My opponent has an elvish mystic in play, a Nissa and a tapped 4/4 land. After some thinking, I swing, trigger Narset to reveal...3 lands and a stoke. He blocks with the elf. I kill the land and must kill Nissa, so i do so. I pass thinking that there's almost no way I can lose this game. He fetches on his upkeep, putting him down to 7. I cut and he draws...a third Nissa! GG.
So after thinking hard about the games I played, I decided to make some changes. Green is just a bad matchup and there are ways to improve it, namely, Mantis Rider. They simply cannot handle that creature and will lose to it on turn three. So I decided to put it back in, but in the SB specifically for that matchup.
Here are my card justifications:
2 Disdainful Stroke - A must. Hits almost all hard to handle threats.
4 Jeskai Charm - Fundamental
4 Magma Jet - Fundamental
2 Mindswipe - This turned to be extremely better than I thought it ever would be. 90% of the time it countered the spell but those extra points of damage were always relevant.
3 Dig through time - Would not play less than three but not four. Stellar card.
2 Steam Augury - I have never whiffed with this. My opponents were constantly left having to make impossible choices. And it feeds DtT.
4 Lightning Strike - Fundamental
2 Deflecting Palm - I had three originally but decided that it was too many. Two is just right. Any deck that runs big dudes will play around this and thus, giving you time to win.
4 Stoke the Flames - Fundamental
3 Searing blood - Unfortunately, kind of terrible. This becomes a flex slot. Right now, I've replaced with Arc Lightning but don't like that card either. Thinking about putting Dissolve.
2 Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker - I boarded him out often against heavy removal decks. I'd rather they just blank on those. But he's good against green.
1 Chandra, Pyromaster - Not a huge fan either, a little slow and hard to protect. I probably want to replace her with something else, but not sure what yet.
1 Keranos - Stellar card. Absolutely maindeck.
1 Narset - For my build, I want her maindeck and have only lost once with her on the board. She's just busted in an all spells build.
Sideboard
3 Pillar of Light - Was never unhappy to have that in hand. I prefer this over banishing light because it's an instant and cannot be removed by anything. Get rid of that Polukranos/Butcher/Sarkhan!
1 Disdainful Stroke - For the matchups with a lot of 4+ spells that have high impact
3 Negate - Against the mirror I found these to be crucial. It also allows you to interact with Ascendancy, a little.
3 End Hostilities - I had one main originally but didn't really like it. This is perfect for heavy creature builds like green.
1 Harness by Force - Again, a great finisher. Was always happy to have this.
2 Anger of the Gods - Awful. Just...awful. We have enough removal to get rid of those pesky early drops that I never wanted this. Never sided it in.
2 Magma Spray - Also useless.
So my changes:
- 3 Searing blood
+ 3 Arc Lightning/Dissolve
- 2 Magma Spray
- 2 Anger of the Gods
+ 4 Mantis Rider
I like the titans strength in the basis of the scry. And yes, I'm advocating it and disagree that you're looking to win by turn 8. I think it can happen a lot faster than that in this version. At any rate, the swifts pear demands that you take an aggressive stance. It's not a grindy creature.
How about something more similiar to that Legacy deck? I have always disliked Snapcaster Mage in Delver decks. Yes he is value and can steal games but I think he is a bit slow and now we have Treasure Cruise to use which seems higher impact.
I tried this exact list vs. an infect deck and here are some quick observations.
Lands: The 16 lands was a little bit of an issue, but I think it might be more doable if you switch a fetch or two for another basic. You can get in some tight spots where your manabase does a bunch of damage to you. Filling the yard for treasure cruise didn't seem to be much of a problem anyways. It might be better to just up the land count by one or two just because we need 1 or 2 mana open for counterspells where legacy builds with daze and force typically do not. Overall I never found myself to be completely mana screwed.
Monastary Swiftspear: Never drew one! Of course that happens when you want to test it.
Treasure Cruise: This card is nuts. I never got into a situation where I wanted to cast it but it was too expensive. The only time I left one my hand for a while was when I had just cast another copy and my grip was already plenty full. The deck fills your yard without much issue.
Thanks for testing the list! I am finding the same problem. I think just cutting the 3rd Thought Scour for a 3rd Island or possibly a Mountain solves the issue.
Swiftspear is pretty decent, just gets a bit awkward when you have something like Serum Visions, Thought Scour and Remand in hand after playing a 2nd land. You want to just main phase scour/visions so you can crack in for 3 but then you have no counters up. I am still not quite sure how to play the deck with spear, I think you may have to just take completely different lines in games where you start turn 1 Delver of Secrets vs. turn 1 Monastery Swiftspear.
Personally I feel that with switfspear, you become the aggressor and less of a control deck. Tempo becomes very important. Think of a turn 1 delver into turn two MS followed by a titans strength... That's 8 potential damage! That's a very aggressive curve. Not many decks can come back from such a quick beating.
If Burn is an auto-lose, typically, why not add Dragon's Claw in the side? Would flip that match up in your favour, would it not? Plus, burn seems to be picking up in popularity...In addition, what about adding Titan's Strength to the main? It practically acts as another bolt and allows you to scry and fills your grave just the same....To take LK's list:
2. Villainous Wealth: this should not be a $1 card. Genesis Wave is $5 for play in eternal and this is evenly powerful although different from G-Wave. In format this should be $6-$10. There's just not a lot of room for it gain. It could be called a sleeper though because it could easily tick up to $5 (although, most likely I see it sitting at $2-$3). Generally when we talk sleeper we're not talking about something that stays that low though.
Villainous Wealth doesn't target you, it targets opponents. I don't foresee many places where it will be anywhere as useful as Genesis Wave since you can build your deack around Genesis.
But it is any non-land spell and it is cast. So, you can get anything relevant from your opponent. If they don't have anything relevant it means you're already winning anyways.
And still no one comments on the fact that bloodsoaked champion can trigger his own raid.
Because everyone already knows that that's not a sleeper and that it's good ?
Jeskai Ascendancy is busted. Been playing with it and it's just nuts.
I think Sultai Ascendancy is also very good. The ability to cycle bad draws on upkeep in a slow format is pretty solid.
This is why serum visions is such a staple in modern. No matter how clever and powerful the combo, cheap dig and filter is key to getting it off the ground. I feel like standard is sorely lacking a nice blue cantrip lately.
Yes, standard is definitely missing a piece like that. But I don't see them reprinting anything of the likes for modern, unless it's a pure reprint of something that is already legal. At any rate, my edited combo version is pretty consistent. 4-6 turns. There's enough digging and filling up your graveyard to make dig through time a card that is simply the nuts. It's definitely masturbation magic though. And the actual win con becomes the altar of the brood. Mill out your opponent. Now it's not infallible, say if the bow of nylea becomes a thing...
The problem I find with Ornithopter is that you can often end up durdling around with that card and do nothing for several turns. When you become too reliant on having it turn into a 5/5 on turn two, sometimes you just have the worst draws with it. In most cases, the only way to dig for some of your decklists is the ascendency. But what if you don't get it in the first 5 turns? Then your opponent simply has to dispatch your one or two threats and you're dead in the water. Thoughtseize is still a card.
Consistency is always an issue with this idea as there aren't many ways in which you can dig for the pieces in your builds. This is why I think you've either got to go all in with the combo or you build in a slightly different way so as to have a system of many threats (a la token maker).
I actually really like this list. I think we can maybe cut a couple Swan Song for a couple Purphoros, God of the Forge. He fits with both the token and the burn strategy. He doesn't help the combo but I don't think we can expect to combo every game.
Edit: Talking about n00b king's list.
The purphoros were actually originally in the main but I had pushed them to the side board. It may very well be the right move to push them back in and cut two swan song.
I don't expect control to exist for a while, which does give us time to figure out the right build. I think game one could always be aimed at just regular beat down and game two to bring in the pain via combo. There's an article on star city discussing this very idea. I like battlefield thaumaturge as he gains hexproof when targeted with the helix. Icy blast is also nuts with him in play.
Swan Song sounds doable. it can counter courser as well (and gods if they're still played). but not artifacts or planeswalkers.
If you're adamant about going that combo route, what does it matter if Swan Song can't counter artifacts or planeswalkers? Are there planeswalkers that could be a problem in this new format? The only one I can think of is Sarkan and it's unlikely it will be an issue since by the time your opponent will be able to cast him, you should have won.
I still think the list should be a bit more varied than that. An "all in" on the ascendancy is iffy (with no real way of digging for it).
My take on the deck list. My version is even immune against Despise (which I do think is going to see a large amount of play):
Here's how I would build it to be more combo oriented. I think it's not uncommon to have it go off by turn 6 or so. The dig through time is crucial in this I think. It allows you to dig for the pieces at the end of your opponent's turn and win on yours.
I've been goldfishing with it and you can go through your deck very quickly. The only thing I really wish was in standard were mana rocks that cost 2 or less. It would really help speed up the deck.
As for banishing light, you can play them but Pol should still be present. The hardest Creature to deal with though is storm breath. Which encourages me even more to keep playing them.
I kind of like erase but would play deicide instead just because of the extra utility. And to answer the question about what it'd be good against... Other banishing lights obviously. Wouldn't want to waste mine on one of those.
Yes, the pillars are in the sideboard, not main. The thing about the banishing light is that it's a defensive card, and it can be removed. The purpose of the Pol is about the same as the banishing light. In that you're going to use it to remove a threat. 90% of the time that threat will be a Creature. I suggest you keep an eye out on how often you use the bl on something else than a Creature. That should give you a good idea of why Pol is better for us. And I never have not had enough answers in my hand as we have plenty of draw power with the augury and the dtt.
I want to add that i don`t disagree with Banishing Light main deck (or side). I'm just arguing in favor of POL. At any rate, it's likely that the BL get sideboarded out game two as your opponent is likely to bring in enchantment removal. So why give them the opportunity to react to a play to blow you out?
All of those are easily remedied with an attacking mantis or a burn spell. The only card in there of relevance is keranos. But that means you're likely facing the mirror and it rarely will come down to that card.
As for devouring light, it has a condition where the Creature needs to attack or block and costs two white mana. It's not terrible but I still prefer being able to be proactive.
Please tell me what Creature with three toughness you possibly care about that warrants using a banishing light on? As for planeswalkers, there are really only two in the format that matter : sarkhan and Nissa. Of those two, only Nissa is a valid target (as pol hits sarkhan). You're undervaluing the instant speed factor and most importantly, the exile. In addition, your opponent can't interact with it once it resolves. So I'd say, for our functions, pol is better than bl. It deals with all the tough creatures in the format. Which is what this deck can struggle against.
This is exactly why I don't want to play banishing light. Pillar of light does exactly the same thing but way better. It also costs the same and can't be interacted with post-resolve.
I play tested some more, going back to creatures and I find that it's best when this deck is the aggressor (at least it's more fun) than when it's draw-go. I tried out the Stormbreaths maindeck (2 of) and boy are they are beating acting as Sarkhans 3-4. I have been, sadly, underwhelmed again by the Seeker. He's an awful top deck and just doesn't do enough to justify his presence. On top of that, he just dies immediately as my opponents do know what he can do. I wish there was a better two drop to play but sadly we're kind of stuck on this one. Might just replace with something that isn't a creature at all.
Ya the deck is more control but I've found that having the strokes main is just fine. There's no deck that it doesn't hit something significant. That's certainly not the issue. Green is just a tough matchup no matter how you want to look at it. I never found the Angers to be that useful, even to kill some mana dorks because frankly, Polukranos will come out on turn 3 or 4, he's a problem either way. I also don't care about Hornet queen since...I'm not playing any creatures it can interact with. At worse, I'll have to counter it (it does cost seven mana).
I love the creature build version of the deck, but I feel that with the way the format is playing out right now, there's just way too much removal to maximize its power. Perhaps when the next set releases, we'll have some new toys to add that will make it more lethal.
As for Chandra: In all honesty, I've always found her awkward in this deck. I have no way to protect her on the ground and ya sure, the random card once in a while is good, but most of the time, I won't want to cast it on my main phase (especially not when I reveal a DtT with 4 cards in my grave). That's why she's a one of. She might be much better in the creature version in higher numbers since most of your spells cost less than 4 mana anyways.
I originally ran a list that had the 4 Riders/Rabbles/Seekers. It performed fairly well only losing to Jeskai Ascendancy (there's almost no way you can win this matchup).
At any rate, my first observation was that the meta is infested with black players. So this means that everyone is running a crap ton of removal. Which means that your twelve guys aren't putting much pressure on your opponents. So top decking creatures passed turn six is awful. So I thought about how this list could be improved for the majority of the field. The toughest matchups I found have been those that are running green. Either mono-green or abzhan. The rhino is a pretty annoying creature. Hard to kill and gives your opponent time. I thought about the hushwing as well, but that's really the only matchup that you can play it in and so it's not really worth our while.
So how do we improve our decklist to hit the majority of the board with great effect? Well...this might mean that the deck has to evolve. And basically, that means cutting ALL the creatures. After putting something together, I basically crushed. Not just like barely win my matches, I crushed while all my opponents sat there, not knowing what to side in and sitting with half their hands useless (removal). On top of that, Thoughtseize becomes incredibly bad because it's a free 2 damage source and most of my spells are redundant. Despise hits practically nothing as well.
I played in a standard tournament this sunday and topped four losing to Abzhan and a Green/Red deck that was simply too powerful (I'll get into details).
Here is the list I ran:
2 Disdainful Stroke
4 Jeskai Charm
4 Magma Jet
2 Mindswipe
3 Dig through time
2 Steam Augury
4 Lightning Strike
2 Deflecting Palm
4 Stoke the Flames
3 Searing blood
2 Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
//Gods
1 Keranos, God of Storms
//Creatures
1 Narset, Enlightened Master
3 Pillar of Light
1 Disdainful Stroke
3 Negate
3 End Hostilities
1 Harness by Force
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Magma Spray
Yes, this appears to be more in line with a control/burn deck. And I guess it was. In a field filled with removal and dudes, this deck was simply phenomenal (mostly). My opponents couldn't stick a threat and sat there with nothing but removal in hand while I slowly burned their face.
Round 1: Red/white Rabble
Quick 2-0 game as my opponent couldn't stick a threat down and sat there with a bunch of creature targeting spells. Game two he drew into 13 lands.
1-0
Round 2: Mardu
These games lasted a bit longer but again, my opponent sat there with a bunch of removal and couldn't stick a threat. I countered the relevant stuff and killed him with Keranos/Narset.
2-0
Round 3: Abzhan
This was tougher. I lost 2-1 mostly because I ran into some missed land drops, he over committed to the board while I had an end hostilities in hand, needing a fifth land. I drew it, but it was a temple...Game two was Fleecemane, fleecemane, fleeceman, monstrous. I couldn't find any burn in that game and just lost to that 4/4.
2-1
Round 4: Mono Black
Deflecting palm here was huge. It won me game one and game two he couldn't really play anything knowing that it either wouldn't stick or would kill him. It happened often that my opponent resolved to killing his own guys.
3-1
Top Four, Round 1: Green/Red scary stuff
This matchup was abysmal. Just abysmal. Every card he played was a massive answer me now threat (Nissa, Sarkhan, Dragon, Polukranos, Xenagos) and I simply did not have the resources to handle everything. I was quickly dispatched game 1. Game 2 was far more epic. He mulled to 4, on the draw (and still won, btw)while I had a normally unbeatable hand. We traded blows until he was down to 11 and me to 7. He had no cards in hand and was in top deck mode. On his turn, he tops Nissa, I counter it. On my turn I drop Narset, pass. He draws...casts Nissa with two lands untapped. I have a mindswipe in hand, but only 4 mana. I hit him for 2, putting him down to 9. It resolves. He animates a land. I'm tapped out. Go down to 3. I draw (land). I have a stoke the flames in hand. I'm feeling pretty good. My opponent has an elvish mystic in play, a Nissa and a tapped 4/4 land. After some thinking, I swing, trigger Narset to reveal...3 lands and a stoke. He blocks with the elf. I kill the land and must kill Nissa, so i do so. I pass thinking that there's almost no way I can lose this game. He fetches on his upkeep, putting him down to 7. I cut and he draws...a third Nissa! GG.
So after thinking hard about the games I played, I decided to make some changes. Green is just a bad matchup and there are ways to improve it, namely, Mantis Rider. They simply cannot handle that creature and will lose to it on turn three. So I decided to put it back in, but in the SB specifically for that matchup.
Here are my card justifications:
2 Disdainful Stroke - A must. Hits almost all hard to handle threats.
4 Jeskai Charm - Fundamental
4 Magma Jet - Fundamental
2 Mindswipe - This turned to be extremely better than I thought it ever would be. 90% of the time it countered the spell but those extra points of damage were always relevant.
3 Dig through time - Would not play less than three but not four. Stellar card.
2 Steam Augury - I have never whiffed with this. My opponents were constantly left having to make impossible choices. And it feeds DtT.
4 Lightning Strike - Fundamental
2 Deflecting Palm - I had three originally but decided that it was too many. Two is just right. Any deck that runs big dudes will play around this and thus, giving you time to win.
4 Stoke the Flames - Fundamental
3 Searing blood - Unfortunately, kind of terrible. This becomes a flex slot. Right now, I've replaced with Arc Lightning but don't like that card either. Thinking about putting Dissolve.
2 Sarkhan, the dragonspeaker - I boarded him out often against heavy removal decks. I'd rather they just blank on those. But he's good against green.
1 Chandra, Pyromaster - Not a huge fan either, a little slow and hard to protect. I probably want to replace her with something else, but not sure what yet.
1 Keranos - Stellar card. Absolutely maindeck.
1 Narset - For my build, I want her maindeck and have only lost once with her on the board. She's just busted in an all spells build.
Sideboard
3 Pillar of Light - Was never unhappy to have that in hand. I prefer this over banishing light because it's an instant and cannot be removed by anything. Get rid of that Polukranos/Butcher/Sarkhan!
1 Disdainful Stroke - For the matchups with a lot of 4+ spells that have high impact
3 Negate - Against the mirror I found these to be crucial. It also allows you to interact with Ascendancy, a little.
3 End Hostilities - I had one main originally but didn't really like it. This is perfect for heavy creature builds like green.
1 Harness by Force - Again, a great finisher. Was always happy to have this.
2 Anger of the Gods - Awful. Just...awful. We have enough removal to get rid of those pesky early drops that I never wanted this. Never sided it in.
2 Magma Spray - Also useless.
So my changes:
- 3 Searing blood
+ 3 Arc Lightning/Dissolve
- 2 Magma Spray
- 2 Anger of the Gods
+ 4 Mantis Rider
Personally I feel that with switfspear, you become the aggressor and less of a control deck. Tempo becomes very important. Think of a turn 1 delver into turn two MS followed by a titans strength... That's 8 potential damage! That's a very aggressive curve. Not many decks can come back from such a quick beating.
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Serum Visions
3 Treasure Cruise
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Titan's Strength
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pillar of flame/forked bolt/flame splash
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Spell Snare
4 Flooded Strand
4 Steam Vents
4 Island
1 Mountain
1 wooded foothills
Because everyone already knows that that's not a sleeper and that it's good ?
Jeskai Ascendancy is busted. Been playing with it and it's just nuts.
I think Sultai Ascendancy is also very good. The ability to cycle bad draws on upkeep in a slow format is pretty solid.
Yes, standard is definitely missing a piece like that. But I don't see them reprinting anything of the likes for modern, unless it's a pure reprint of something that is already legal. At any rate, my edited combo version is pretty consistent. 4-6 turns. There's enough digging and filling up your graveyard to make dig through time a card that is simply the nuts. It's definitely masturbation magic though. And the actual win con becomes the altar of the brood. Mill out your opponent. Now it's not infallible, say if the bow of nylea becomes a thing...
Consistency is always an issue with this idea as there aren't many ways in which you can dig for the pieces in your builds. This is why I think you've either got to go all in with the combo or you build in a slightly different way so as to have a system of many threats (a la token maker).
The purphoros were actually originally in the main but I had pushed them to the side board. It may very well be the right move to push them back in and cut two swan song.
I don't expect control to exist for a while, which does give us time to figure out the right build. I think game one could always be aimed at just regular beat down and game two to bring in the pain via combo. There's an article on star city discussing this very idea. I like battlefield thaumaturge as he gains hexproof when targeted with the helix. Icy blast is also nuts with him in play.
If you're adamant about going that combo route, what does it matter if Swan Song can't counter artifacts or planeswalkers? Are there planeswalkers that could be a problem in this new format? The only one I can think of is Sarkan and it's unlikely it will be an issue since by the time your opponent will be able to cast him, you should have won.
I still think the list should be a bit more varied than that. An "all in" on the ascendancy is iffy (with no real way of digging for it).
My take on the deck list. My version is even immune against Despise (which I do think is going to see a large amount of play):
4x Triplicate Spirits
4x Raise the Alarm
4x Hordeling outburst
4x Retraction Helix
4x Swan Song
3x Jeskai Charm
4x Stoke the flames
2x Briber's purse
1x Altar of the brood
//Enchantments
4x Jeskai Ascendancy
//Lands
4x Battlefield Forge
4x Shivan Reef
4x Mana Confluence
4x Temple of Epiphany
4x Temple of triumph
2x Mountain
2x Plains
Here's how I would build it to be more combo oriented. I think it's not uncommon to have it go off by turn 6 or so. The dig through time is crucial in this I think. It allows you to dig for the pieces at the end of your opponent's turn and win on yours.
4x Monastery Swiftspear
//Spells
4x Tormenting Voice
2x Dig through time
4x Retraction Helix
3x Taigam's Scheming
4x Magma Jet
3x Swan Song
3x Omen Speaker
4x Jeskai Ascendency
//Artifacts
4x Briber's Purse
2x Altar of the brood
//Lands
4x Shivan Reef
4x Battlefield Forge
4x Mana confluence
3x Mystic Monastery
4x Island
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
4x Thoughtseize
1x Swan Song
3x Void Snare
4x Negate
I've been goldfishing with it and you can go through your deck very quickly. The only thing I really wish was in standard were mana rocks that cost 2 or less. It would really help speed up the deck.