Yes, I understand that Ghost Quarter is good and currently not being played as much as they should be. When they start being used more, I'll obviously modify to suit the metagame, but right now I'm going to do everything I can to take advantage of other players' poor deck building decisions. This is a very meta deck, and I'm playing to the meta.
I'm also very sorry for you that you get stuck at five lands when you're running 27. I've never, ever had this problem. I would get stuck at five lands when I tried running 24 (yes, that was a dumb idea, I know.) But with 25 I usually make it up to about 6-8, which, with 4 storage lands and 4 Rewinds, has been plenty for me.
Fair enough points. Although 4 rewinds seems like a lot. The card scares me because combo decks love dispel and I feel like that is just a pure blowout moment if there ever was one.
Did you guys see chapin's deceiver teachings? Interesting idea in my opinion. It could be grixis with the deceiver package to finish the game fast after we gain control with black for teachings and thoughtseize and things like that. Thoughts?
I've never had mana issues. At all. Between 6 cantrips (4 remand, 2 repeal) 5 card advantage spells (6 if you count Dralnu), and 25 lands including 2 Dimir Aqueduct, which helps you hit land drops every turn and makes sure you don't fall behind in mana, 4 Dreadship Reef, which really accelerates your mana and is pretty much the best land for this deck, I have absolutely no mana issues.
Seriously, everyone should be running at LEAST 2 storage lands, but 4 if you can pull it of. They are incredible.
Hi my name is ghost quarter, im a really good card that people currently only play 2 of, but as soon as some genius begins to playmore, I get to laugh at your dimir aqueduct manabase.
All sillyness aside why in the jesus would I play a land that comes into play tapped if I don't have to? Especially when it is that weak to land destruction? The new zoo lists would legitimately laugh at that.
I actually play 2 storage lands and they consistently underperform. I only keep them in because, I always get stuck on five land and I play! Always play 26-27 lands.
So lets see... You are running red for 4 bolts and 1 cruel?
I like me some bolts and cruel more then your average player, but messing up your mana base just for 5 cards makes no sense. Just run U/b/w Teachings, you can still run dismember or go for the throat.
And where are the cryptics?
I think Trickbind is betters then Angel's grace if you want a silver bullet for your Teachings.
Also I;m Running Preordain, and i've switched them for Telling time. I think its a better card and it digs 3 deep... also instant = good?
I always play 4 cryptics sorry guess I forgot to put them in the list.
The problem with esper teachings is that it doesn't have a way to flat out end the game. Which is the whole point of playing cruel ultimatum. Your argument is fair, but your card replacements are terrible.
Dismember is bad in this format.
Go for the throat doesn't stop affinity which is the main reason to play cheap removal.
Saying Trickbind is better as a silver bullet is hilarious.
The whole reason to play angel's grace is so you don't lose to hivemind/pyromancer/twin and sometimes it can buy you a turn against affinity and zoo. Trickbind only stops 1 of those combos while angel's grace is not only 1 manaless, but stops all 3 from killing you.
Why Mana Leak over Rune Snag? If you're playing a playset, Rune Snag is almost certainly better, since drawing them in multiples late game isn't completely dead against some decks.
Why Damnation over a quicker board wipe like Firespout? This deck plays a lot of tap lands, hitting a turn 3 board wipe on turn 4 isn't unlikely, and will often save you many lost games as opposed to dying the turn before you 5th turn Wrath.
Why only 2 Cruel? Have you tested 3? Is 2 significantly better? I'm not seeing the draw power to consistently see one of 2.
Why Sorin's Vengeance?
Why 2/2 Path/Terminate? Why not 3/1 or 4/0? Path is arguably just better if you can play it.
Why Oblivion Ring? What does it do for you that Cryptic generally won't?
I don't think Ajani has a place in this deck. You don't have sufficient resources to protect him until late game, where he becomes almost irrelevant.
I don't think Chandra fits in here, either. Copying a Cruel (or a Vengeance) is cool, but will likely never happen, since that would require 11 mana and them to not have disruption or dudes to beat her down before you hit 11 (should you play her before then).
Why no Bolts as more fast removal?
Why Go for the Throat in the side? Terminate/Path are just better.
Why Wrath of God/Slagstorm? Double cost of any color besides Blue (barring Cruel) is incredibly tough in this deck (though Black is manageable), and there's a decent chance you don't hit RR on turn 3 or WW on turn 4. This is why we came to the consensus that Firespout is the correct board wipe for the deck (and the meta), while Damnation is the correct hard board wipe in the sideboard as a singleton.
Timely Reinforcements seems rather lackluster in this format. It's a great card, don't get me wrong. I'm just not sure it fits.
I'm debating taking out the Inquisitions for them. I will be testing tonight and tomorrow to see how they hold up. They are powerful in almost every matchup: fetchland triggers, Eldrazi cast effects, Persist, Hive Mind triggers, etc.
Rune Snag Vs Mana Leak (It for the most part doesn't matter. Although I will say I'm on the rune snag side now.)
If you actually play enough cheap removal you can afford to play damnation over firespout on the fact that it is simply better and you can have the extra turn if you killed 1 of their creatures dead.
3 Cruel Ultimatum is preference. I hate 3 because I always draw them and 2 is pretty much better because you are more likely to draw action instead of another cruel ultimatum when you are stuck on 4 lands.(It happens)
Some people run an assortment of removal over just 4 path to exile so that they can cast multiple in a turn. Nothing wrong with that.
Timely Reinforcements is alright if your opponent doesn't play punishing fire, buys you atleast 1-2 turns.
I feel like if you just play teachings that you don't have to play Blue Sun because it is really overcosted and you definitely won't resolve it against another control deck unlike teachings which they let happen simply because I can just flash it back to get the +1 anyway.
I don't know if you guys have still been playing this style of deck, but my updated list is pretty decent it avoids a lot of weaknesses we have.
What we need is a list of decks for the format so that we can then list general answers to them and thus overlapping answers can be used to make our decks as efficient as possible. If anyone is interested in helping me make this list I think it could progress this style of deck very quickly.
Anyway this is what I have been using, its really hard to play so easy to make a mistake with, but anyway.
what cards u recommend vs jund with demigod and fauna shaman
im thinking 2xidentity crisis and 1 faerie macabre plus 2 celestial purge i have 1 sadistic sacrament too
The problem with identity crisis is that it is only good against ooze and other control decks(which are basically nonexistant).
Relic of Progenitus is really powerful and solves all the problems we could ever have against graveyard based decks.
Just do what the rock deck did. Toss 4 Thoughtseize, 2 inquisition, 2 duress into jund and call it a day.
Fair enough points. Although 4 rewinds seems like a lot. The card scares me because combo decks love dispel and I feel like that is just a pure blowout moment if there ever was one.
Did you guys see chapin's deceiver teachings? Interesting idea in my opinion. It could be grixis with the deceiver package to finish the game fast after we gain control with black for teachings and thoughtseize and things like that. Thoughts?
Congratulations to italy.
The spellskite came down way earlier and he didn't have the second bolt at the time.
Hi my name is ghost quarter, im a really good card that people currently only play 2 of, but as soon as some genius begins to playmore, I get to laugh at your dimir aqueduct manabase.
All sillyness aside why in the jesus would I play a land that comes into play tapped if I don't have to? Especially when it is that weak to land destruction? The new zoo lists would legitimately laugh at that.
I actually play 2 storage lands and they consistently underperform. I only keep them in because, I always get stuck on five land and I play! Always play 26-27 lands.
I always play 4 cryptics sorry guess I forgot to put them in the list.
The problem with esper teachings is that it doesn't have a way to flat out end the game. Which is the whole point of playing cruel ultimatum. Your argument is fair, but your card replacements are terrible.
Dismember is bad in this format.
Go for the throat doesn't stop affinity which is the main reason to play cheap removal.
Saying Trickbind is better as a silver bullet is hilarious.
The whole reason to play angel's grace is so you don't lose to hivemind/pyromancer/twin and sometimes it can buy you a turn against affinity and zoo. Trickbind only stops 1 of those combos while angel's grace is not only 1 manaless, but stops all 3 from killing you.
Rune Snag Vs Mana Leak (It for the most part doesn't matter. Although I will say I'm on the rune snag side now.)
If you actually play enough cheap removal you can afford to play damnation over firespout on the fact that it is simply better and you can have the extra turn if you killed 1 of their creatures dead.
3 Cruel Ultimatum is preference. I hate 3 because I always draw them and 2 is pretty much better because you are more likely to draw action instead of another cruel ultimatum when you are stuck on 4 lands.(It happens)
Some people run an assortment of removal over just 4 path to exile so that they can cast multiple in a turn. Nothing wrong with that.
Timely Reinforcements is alright if your opponent doesn't play punishing fire, buys you atleast 1-2 turns.
I feel like if you just play teachings that you don't have to play Blue Sun because it is really overcosted and you definitely won't resolve it against another control deck unlike teachings which they let happen simply because I can just flash it back to get the +1 anyway.
Then he would just be too good. No reason to not play nights with that kind of delicious craziness.
Cruel Control is really powerful. Its just really difficult to pilot. That's why it hasn't topped a lot.
What we need is a list of decks for the format so that we can then list general answers to them and thus overlapping answers can be used to make our decks as efficient as possible. If anyone is interested in helping me make this list I think it could progress this style of deck very quickly.
Anyway this is what I have been using, its really hard to play so easy to make a mistake with, but anyway.
1 Teferi
1 Plumeveil
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Baneslayer Angel
Spells
4 Preordain
4 Path to exile
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Mana Leak
4 Esper Charm
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Angel's Grace (lol hivemind)
1 Damnation
1 Consume the Meek
1 Cruel Ultimatum
4 Reflecting Pool
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Marsh Flats
3 Islands
1 Plains
2 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundary
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Dreadship Reef
1 City of Brass
2 Mystic Gate
3 Mindbreak Trap
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Sowing Salt
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Echoing Truth
1 Disenchant
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Ricochet Trap
1 Ravenous Trap
The zendikar traps have surprisingly been really good if you haven't noticed.
The problem with identity crisis is that it is only good against ooze and other control decks(which are basically nonexistant).
Relic of Progenitus is really powerful and solves all the problems we could ever have against graveyard based decks.
Also do you not run path to exile? I play 4 now.