My problem with the deck from the daily is that he runs almost no card draw. 2 esper charm is far from enough...He must of played some very uncompetitive decks.
Ensnaring bridge is ok, but it is only a band aid on a larger problem. They will draw a repeal and you will be sad. For ensnaring bridge to work properly you need a clock or another way to shut them out.
He has a very valid point in the card choices.
Card Draw he has:
4 Cryptic (Conditional)
2 Esper Charm (Raw Card advantage)
4 Ponder (This is card advantage, sure it isn't a direct +1, but guaranteeing that you draw action/lands at the right time is essential arguably more important than getting a direct +1.)
4 Repeal (This solves so many problems, makes sense against aggro because in reality a cruel ultimatum will end many games against aggro)
Spell Pierce(IDK how I feel about this one.)
Just because he doesn't play a lot of direct +1s doesn't mean the deck can't find what it needs. Besides Cruel Ultimatum negates anything that he loses from playing these card choices over say careful consideration or 4 esper charm. Not saying it is correct, but it is something to look at.
Not Grixis, but have people considered Voidslime and Krosan Grip? Both are excellent control cards that don't really have a parallel that I've seen in the existing decks. (I'm not really sure how you would replace Voidslime.)
Voidslime seems like a legit teachings target.
On to more important things. You guys see the 4 color teachings deck? Is that guy crazy or what?
I really like his list and all of his 1of's. All kinds of neat stuff in his package.
EDIT: You guys play teachings in your cruel control? What for? (lol)
honestly I didn't notice his mana base because all of his cards were together instead of being spit up into land,creature, and other spells. IMO, without vivid lands your better off just going grixis. A fetch shock mana base hurts to much, and the use of too many basics with filters is also in consistent.
So you posted a deck to the front page without knowing if it was even good? Yeah that will attract the masses.
So outside of losing the dice roll to bloodmoon.deck you think the deck is good...there is no way im going to play a deck like that and there is no way im playing spell pierce in a non aggressive blue deck to get around the blood moon.
3 islands is all the basics you need. I've been playing with fetchlands and shocks for forever it doesn't hurt nearly as much as you are acting like it does.
This is fine. I kinda like the fact that you built it to try and make g1 against 12 post manageable, but thoughtseize is going to lose you a ton of games against zoo in the mainboard. In my opinion losing game 1 to a combo deck when your deck is built to handle aggro is okay, because the entire sideboard is just pure combo hate.
I lost game 1 to scapeshift in extended all the time. When you board in like 10 cards for a match up they don't even recognize your deck anymore and the lesser players will derp all over the place because of it.
your mana base needs a bit of work, and I would throw in 1-2 creature win conditions. also you need some mulldrifters or something to draw cards. preordain and spreading seas isn't going to get you to enough spells.
This is simply not true. U/b in standard did really well against the kut with preordain and spreading seas and still had an excellent match up. Granted they had jace, but he was mostly for fatesealing in that match which isn't the same as drawing cards.
And you didn't voice this when you saw burstinatrix's mana base. Either you are lying to make yourself look better or you don't want this deck to progress. Please continue with what you think the manabase should look like.
So I had a thought during class today that 4 reflecting pool may be bad in a list without vivid lands. So I think that if you don't play vivid lands you should cut your reflecting pool count down and replace it with something. Im going to think about more later but I definitely think that less reflecting pools is better for the mana base.
Zoo: basically if you bolt or path atleast 1 creature on turn 1 or 2 and then follow up with turn 3/4 firspout/damnation. You win.
Green 12 post: if you have action in your hand(boss creature) don't be afraid to cryptic bouncing a land and drawing a card to set them back a turn. Try to make your cruel or titan or whatever happen before the first titan derps you
Affinity: same as zoo only slightly more complicated because of vault skirge and master of etherium. Oh and ravager is pretty nutty but once again bolt saves the day. Also if you play punishing fire this deck doesn't exist to you
U post: concede game 1(lol), board in 4 mindbreak traps and a logic knot and literally wait the game out(this takes less time if you have punishing fire combo). Most lists only play like 6 boss monsters and around 2 condescends(this is the only counter you give a **** about) when you get to like a billion mana bait them with eot teferi. Lose the counter war but try to get them to use the condescends. Now cruel them. You may be asking yourself how much is a billion mana? Enough mana to cast cruel ultimatum and keep up a mindbreak trap/cryptic command or two. If you play teachings this is even easier because you can just tutor for the trap and they don't really want to waste counters on a card you can use twice.
Living end: hope you have more than a mana leak game 1.
sideboard 3 relic of progenitus and win.
The only red decks I've played smashed me, but they weren't burn. On guy pplayed turn 1 koth and blood moon. I was like wtf.
Jund: slower version of zoo. In extended this match up was basically a pure attrition war, I would imagine it is exactly the same here except we now have punishing aka everything except for goyf just dies.
Oh I forgot I play sowing salt aswell and it seems pretty powerful
What am I forgetting?
While Elspeth might be the second best planeswalker ever printed, I wouldn't play her in any variant of this deck. The only one I can see myself legitimately running is banned.
If punishing fire was not in the format. I would certainly play elspeth over ajani. Whenever I pick planeswalkers for a control deck. I always think about which planeswalker would win in a fight. Elspeth beats everything except for garruk, karn and bolas in a straight up fight. I remember in extended I played 5cc with 3 jace and 1 elspeth and I watched as elspeth single handedly won me more games than cruel ultimatum.
To be completely honest. 12post will destroy any control deck in this format game 1 purely based on the fact that control is built to handle aggro, but a lot of control decks are sideboarding tons of hate for it and it doesn't become nearly as bad. Atleast for me because sowing salt puts in work.
Genuine question time. On the front page leyline of sanctity is in the sideboard. What matchup is that for?
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
I am really not a fan on chandra either. The only planes walker i would consider for this deck would be:
1 elspeth knight errant
and MAYBE ajani vengeant
If the new garruks mana cost was a bit more forgiving i would consider it but 3 green is way too hard on the manabase.
If he was 2 Green I would bite the bullet and play vivids by god. 3/3 Beasts are nothing to talk smack about. PLUS if you resolve a grave titan garruk becomes draw 6 cards. Do want.
planeswalkers are kinda bad in a deck that doesn't run blockers.
also I fixed that space issue Burstinatrix
The real reason planeswalkers are bad in this format is because of punishing fire. Control decks with punishing fire don't care at all about planeswalkers. Otherwise I would certainly have elspeth in my deck.
He has a very valid point in the card choices.
Card Draw he has:
4 Cryptic (Conditional)
2 Esper Charm (Raw Card advantage)
4 Ponder (This is card advantage, sure it isn't a direct +1, but guaranteeing that you draw action/lands at the right time is essential arguably more important than getting a direct +1.)
4 Repeal (This solves so many problems, makes sense against aggro because in reality a cruel ultimatum will end many games against aggro)
Spell Pierce(IDK how I feel about this one.)
Just because he doesn't play a lot of direct +1s doesn't mean the deck can't find what it needs. Besides Cruel Ultimatum negates anything that he loses from playing these card choices over say careful consideration or 4 esper charm. Not saying it is correct, but it is something to look at.
Voidslime seems like a legit teachings target.
On to more important things. You guys see the 4 color teachings deck? Is that guy crazy or what?
I really like his list and all of his 1of's. All kinds of neat stuff in his package.
EDIT: You guys play teachings in your cruel control? What for? (lol)
Spell Pierce, but that card is really really weak.
Punishing Fire is the best answer next to firespout.
Repeal/Echoing Truth/Counter Magic. Unless they are derping hard on turn 1/2 with a god hand its not as big a deal as everyone makes it.
Pro tip: play more lands.
Vesuva sounds okay if they can't just search inresponse, but if they can then your plan is the worst.
So you posted a deck to the front page without knowing if it was even good? Yeah that will attract the masses.
So outside of losing the dice roll to bloodmoon.deck you think the deck is good...there is no way im going to play a deck like that and there is no way im playing spell pierce in a non aggressive blue deck to get around the blood moon.
3 islands is all the basics you need. I've been playing with fetchlands and shocks for forever it doesn't hurt nearly as much as you are acting like it does.
This is fine. I kinda like the fact that you built it to try and make g1 against 12 post manageable, but thoughtseize is going to lose you a ton of games against zoo in the mainboard. In my opinion losing game 1 to a combo deck when your deck is built to handle aggro is okay, because the entire sideboard is just pure combo hate.
I lost game 1 to scapeshift in extended all the time. When you board in like 10 cards for a match up they don't even recognize your deck anymore and the lesser players will derp all over the place because of it.
This is simply not true. U/b in standard did really well against the kut with preordain and spreading seas and still had an excellent match up. Granted they had jace, but he was mostly for fatesealing in that match which isn't the same as drawing cards.
Vivid lands are way more reliable, but the come into play **** is really bad in a format with turn 2 blood moon all over the place.
Green 12 post: if you have action in your hand(boss creature) don't be afraid to cryptic bouncing a land and drawing a card to set them back a turn. Try to make your cruel or titan or whatever happen before the first titan derps you
Affinity: same as zoo only slightly more complicated because of vault skirge and master of etherium. Oh and ravager is pretty nutty but once again bolt saves the day. Also if you play punishing fire this deck doesn't exist to you
U post: concede game 1(lol), board in 4 mindbreak traps and a logic knot and literally wait the game out(this takes less time if you have punishing fire combo). Most lists only play like 6 boss monsters and around 2 condescends(this is the only counter you give a **** about) when you get to like a billion mana bait them with eot teferi. Lose the counter war but try to get them to use the condescends. Now cruel them. You may be asking yourself how much is a billion mana? Enough mana to cast cruel ultimatum and keep up a mindbreak trap/cryptic command or two. If you play teachings this is even easier because you can just tutor for the trap and they don't really want to waste counters on a card you can use twice.
Living end: hope you have more than a mana leak game 1.
sideboard 3 relic of progenitus and win.
The only red decks I've played smashed me, but they weren't burn. On guy pplayed turn 1 koth and blood moon. I was like wtf.
Jund: slower version of zoo. In extended this match up was basically a pure attrition war, I would imagine it is exactly the same here except we now have punishing aka everything except for goyf just dies.
Oh I forgot I play sowing salt aswell and it seems pretty powerful
What am I forgetting?
I will always play 4 crytic command in a format like this. Especially when wizards said they didn't want turn 3 kills.
If punishing fire was not in the format. I would certainly play elspeth over ajani. Whenever I pick planeswalkers for a control deck. I always think about which planeswalker would win in a fight. Elspeth beats everything except for garruk, karn and bolas in a straight up fight. I remember in extended I played 5cc with 3 jace and 1 elspeth and I watched as elspeth single handedly won me more games than cruel ultimatum.
DaGarver. I can't agree with that. Elspeth is the second best planeswalker ever printed. Plus superfriends has to tapout to do stuff. Combo decks would have way too much of a field day against it.
If he was 2 Green I would bite the bullet and play vivids by god. 3/3 Beasts are nothing to talk smack about. PLUS if you resolve a grave titan garruk becomes draw 6 cards. Do want.
The real reason planeswalkers are bad in this format is because of punishing fire. Control decks with punishing fire don't care at all about planeswalkers. Otherwise I would certainly have elspeth in my deck.