There are many things to respond to from the last page or so of posts. I'll try to do so with as much brevity and clarity as possible.
We do indeed have transparent criteria for banning. What you might be asking for is objective criteria, which as has been pointed out, we don't, since the most likely thing we could draw objective data from (tournament data) is not a thing we consider. We also don't consider online play because far more of it than you might expect is 1v1, and the RC's focus is on Commander as a multiplayer format.
Being firm about a vision isn't being dismissive (a word with clearly negative connotations) about things outside the vision. We're not dismissing 1v1 or tournament play, for example, we're simply acknowledging that they're something we aren't doing. Not putting anchovies in my cinnamon roll recipe isn't dismissive of anchovies, it's recognition that they're not the right ingredient for this particular recipe--but they sure would be if I wanted to make a Caesar salad.
I recognize that most of my decks are what Jason Alt calls the 75% solution. I'm not saying "I don't break this card, so it's not all that bad," I'm creating a demonstration of how an otherwise-difficult card can be used fairly. This doesn't demonstrate some kind of naivete about the card, but serves as an example of how a card might fit into the mindset we've created. If we're going to create an outside-of-the-box vision, then it behooves us to show how we think is the best way to fit within it.
To Jusstice's point about the soft bans of cards for power level, I'd argue that it's an indication that the social contract is a working, viable idea. Sure, it's really sticky sometimes, it's by no means fool-proof, and it even occasionally creates mismatched expectations between players, especially between those who are strangers. The whole idea is different, and perhaps even radical. It doesn't need to be perfect to be right for us, because we're aware that not one size fits all. The way we've set up and messaged the format encourages and counts on buy-in from the fan base. If you've noticed the wording on the Banned List, we've always encouraged people to take time to consider other cards like the ones on the list. If you think Tooth and Nail is too much like Protean Hulk and don't want it in your games, then we support your efforts
As for ProfessorWhen's comment, we don't need anyone to agree with us, but we're happy that lots of folks do. If you disagree with how we're implementing what we've said we're trying to do, we're all ears. Sure, we're not going to engage in discussion on something that's outside what we're doing. You might have the best argument ever on how to make Commander a great tournament format, but that's outside our scope. It's in no way reflective of you or the quality of your argument, it's simply not what we're focusing on. Feel free to help us better implement our vision, but please don't get upset if we say no thank you if you're trying to change the fundamental nature of the format.
We feel like Commander has found a rather comfortable niche as a Magic format. It's not a commercial property for us which needs to adapt to changing markets in order to survive (although we're sensitive to the fact that it's a commercial property for our friends at Wizards of the Coast). It has no need and we have no desire to change the fundamental nature of the format. If you're interested in taking a piece of it and running in a different direction, we wish you success and enjoyment.
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Sheldon posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer BanlistPosted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum -
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Tiax posted a message on Donald Trump's PresidencyPosted in: DebateQuote from TaheenMage »I can only take Ms Broaddrick's word - and she's not given me any reason not to, whereas Hillary's done that many times already - and wouldn't presume to put words in her mouth or make assumptions on her behalf. In closing, and again, we can continue to dance around making assumptions on the victim's behalf, or we can agree to disagree like adults.
What assumptions am I making on her behalf? I'm just recounting her version of events. I AM taking her at her word.
So, to recap, you, in order to demonstrate that "both candidates have their skeletons", present an alleged wrongdoing for each. For Trump, you present his leadership of a nearly decade-long racist conspiracy theory. For Clinton, you claim that she's a "rape enabler". When pressed, your only evidence of that is that she shook the hand of someone in 1978. When I point out that this is wildly insufficient, you want to "agree to disagree", because that would be "like adults". You know what would be a good thing to do if we're acting like adults? Not peddling this nonsense in the first place. And when you find yourself defending an indefensible position, just admit your mistake rather than trying to weasel out of it by "agreeing to disagree". -
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dox posted a message on Donald Trump's PresidencyPosted in: Debate
And here we have the problem. Not only do you admit being unwilling to fact check Trump you also assume that Trump is the only person committed to solving these issues which is totally false. No politician is running on a platform of open borders and free travel from destabilized regions. These are problems that everyone wants to solve Trump is just louder and more extreme about his positions.Quote from MTGTCG »Even if what you are saying is true,which I highly doubt is true and am too lazy to research, Trump has shown a commitment to end illegal immigration and protect this country from the muslims who just yesterday killed 80+ people in France... for this reason(and others too) I will continue to support him...
Not to mention the fact that radical bigotry such as that from Mr Trump only serves to bolster enemy numbers by giving their hatred a real face to show off in their recruitment propaganda. So not only does Trump's radical bigotry do nothing positive but also it drives more people to join the enemy thus endangering more innocents.
My advice to you is do some research and stop letting Trump make uniformed decisions for you. There is a reason why overly simple solutions like "build a wall" and "ban all people of X denomination" does not work. Because in the real world problems are never that simple and in the world of American politics Trump isn't some genius who saw the super obvious solution that everyone else ignored, people have thought of these ideas before and correctly dismissed them due to their many shortcomings in practicality and usefulness. -
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Doctor.Hydrogen posted a message on Crazy Plays in EDH.A new player wandered in on EDH night this week and sat down. He seemed nice and asked about the meta, and one of my friends said that generally speaking everyone at this point is playing somewhat intentionally casual decks with the intent for half hour, 45 min games. He nodded and sat. I pulled out my Isperia sphinx tribal deck which is usually what I play with new players, one guy pulled out is mostly stock Daxos pre-con, and the third guy his semi-durdly Titania deck. We shuffle up, and new guy unboxes Narset. Looks are cast about the table, and I casually ask "Oh, Narset, what's it do?"Posted in: Commander (EDH)
And he laughs and proceeds to describe Narset.net.dec with all the extra turns and attack phases and mana rocks mass land destruction possible, with all the sound and fury he can muster, telling as if he's the first person every to come up with such a cunning plan. He sounds like a bad Big Bang Theory character named "Annoying Magic Guy.". Which is totally fine if that's your scene, but like thirty seconds ago we had just got done describing the basic meta, and he saw us purposely pull out what are clearly pretty casual decks.
Whatever, it's one game. Cards are dealt, hands examined, etc. Mine wasn't great, but I had a Leyline of Anticipation to flop on the open, several rocks, and an Act of Authority to hopefully deal with the first Naset play.
We spin around the board a time or two, ramp happens, Narset comes out, and I Act her at instant speed thanks to my Leyline, buying us a turn or two. I topdeck a Chancellor of the Spires which isn't gonna help, and it doesn't look like anyone else has a way to hit her, either. Next turn Narset comes down and swings. Narset guy flips a Time Stretch and snickers and makes some weasly comment about how nobody can handle his deck. I look down and count my mana. Hmmm, with mana rocks that's eight, three of which is blue.
"End turn and move to my first extra turn."
"Wait, a sec. Before the end of your turn, I'm going to flash in this Chancellor of the Spires, casting Time Stretch."
He scowls.
I move to my first extra turn, and draw.
It's a Stolen Identity. -
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dox posted a message on Donald Trump's PresidencyPosted in: Debate
It would be one thing if he said it passingly once off hand but that isn't what happened. He was explicitly clear about what he meant, three times he said he wants to take out the families of terrorists. You can't be any clearer than the way he said it. Then after the backlash when more people than he expected disagreed with his statement he back tracked and flipped on the issue to change its meaning entirely. Just more lies from Trump, one after the other.Quote from HolyJello »Trump wanted to "target" the accomplices of terrorists, even if it was the wife. You imagined something much worse than what Trump said. Probably because it is politically convenient to do so. It is MOST telling that you refuse to accept Trump's clarifying remarks. Absolute perfection the first time, every time, is a VERY inflexible and counter productive standard.
I care about innocent people and you should too. The fact of the matter is the these hate groups are fueled by Islamophobia like the hate speech that Trumps spews all over the television screen. I can guarantee they have signs that say "Trump wants to kill your wife and kids" at recruitment centers and websites. This undue hate speech is fanning the flames of this conflict. These people hate America because we give them something very hate worthy, and Trump is making matters worse. He likes funny retorts like " the wall just got ten feet taller" but each time he blames Muslims as a whole ISIS gets ten new recruits. You say he is a patriot but facts say he is aiding the enemy.Quote from HolyJello »
Why are u so worried about the accomplices of terrorists? The innocent victims, IMO, are worthy of a lot more thought and effort. Are u more protected from Islamic terrorists if u spend gobs of time defending their "rights" online? 300+ human beings were directly harmed by Islamic terrorists in Belgium in less than a few hours. How many of them care if the accomplices of the terrorists are "targeted" and treated as enemies of humanity?
You ask me why I would defend the rights of innocent civilians? The answer is that is the only way to prove that we are not the evil force that the enemy claims us to be. -
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PrettyFlyForAGreenGuy posted a message on Crazy Plays in EDH.We can post the other guy's crazy play, here right?Posted in: Commander (EDH)
4-player game: Me, playing Jalira, Gisela, combo Riku, and a Zedruu player who hasn't played in a couple years.
The game goes pretty long, me and the Gisela player end up running out of cards, and it looks like if the Riku player untaps one more time, they win the game. Zedruu player starts their turn, untaps, draws, stares at the card they drew for a minute, then casts Mirror Gallery. He waits to see if it resolves, but neither of the other two blue players want to counter it; we're both waiting to see what jank comes out of this. After it resolves, Zedruu casts a kicked Rite of Replication targeting Gisela. Riku tries to counter it, but Zedruu had Misdirection + spare blue card in hand. Zedruu gets his 5 Giselas.
And then he casts Acorn Catapult. It resolves, and Zedruu proceeds to use it to deal 32 damage to the Riku player, killing him. -
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SonofaBith posted a message on Problematic friendPosted in: Commander (EDH)Quote from Jedimindtricks »Quote from SonofaBith »Quote from Jedimindtricks »Quote from SonofaBith »I guess I should have clarified, yes, after first asking him to remove it, and explaining it ruined peoples fun.
But what do you do when he then complains about your xyz card ruining his fun?
The fact that it's happened: ONE TIME, in six years, with about 12 players, and literally 100+ decks (I alone have 18 decks, and another player regularly shows up with 25 decks each week) and the fact it was group agreement that we all hated the one card, leads me to believe it won't happen again. We've all dealt with hundreds of powerful cards in that time, most of us are big spenders so there is no shortage of power, and we've all adapted to others cards, leads me to believe it's unlikely to happen again. It's not up to "him" to complain about one card in response/retaliation, because the B2B hatred was a decision made by 4 players against 1 players card that failed to listen to the groups complaints. If I run a card that 4 people hate, ask me to remove, and then I see a game has devolved into the table vs. me, I'll remove the card, but I'd have removed it before it ever came to that point.
While everyone in our group wants to win, and we all spend a lot of $ to do so and are not afraid of building strong decks, ultimately the group is about fun. All of us work hard in our real lives, 40+ hours per week, and we come together once per week for 5 hours. If we can't have fun in that time, and B2B drained the fun, there flat out isn't a reason to get together and play. This isn't a tournament where anything goes provided you stay within the parameters of the format, where an entrance fee was paid or prizes are at stake. In those instances I firmly believe in "build a better deck, adapt to it, etc, etc". Take your B2B enabled win, enjoy it, now remove it because you're making the rest of your friends have a negative experience. Again, we've come to a "gentleman's agreement" over ONE card in 6 years. It's never come up again, so it's not a case of editing someone's deck.
Emphasis mine. In your own words, that's exactly what it was. But tell yourself whatever you need to in order to sleep better or feel right.
To sleep better at night? Lol, get over yourself with that melodramatic nonsense. Yes, I lie awake at night in cold sweats, in agony over something that happened in 2010.
When you selectively put emphasis on something you conveniently IGNORE everything else. Like the fact it happened once in six years. One card. Hundreds of decks. GROUP CONCENSUS TO REMOVE THE CARD.
You know what I DO concern myself about? That the 5 people that I act as HOST to at MY house nearly every Wednesday for the last six years had a good time that night, and want to come back next week. Tell you what: YOU host a gathering. Watch 4-5 people sit miserably, unable to play the game to any reasonable degree. On successive weeks. Then tell me if you don't step in to remedy the situation? If the answer is remove one card from a pool of 10's of thousands vs everyone making changes to their decks to deal with it, which is most logical? Again, because you chose to focus on one part of my post, you're ignoring that we deal with strong cards every single week, things like Iona, Moat, Blood Moon, things that by their nature are restrictive. Nothing sucked the fun off the table like B2B, repeatedly. We're not afraid to adapt our decks. NO ONE WAS HAVING FUN. -
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LouCypher posted a message on [[Official]] Unreleased and New Card DiscussionValue-wise, these decks currently are still somewhat above market price, if not by much. I think we're kinda spoiled by the C14 decks in that aspect which were jampacked with goodies. I would've liked a few more reprints in the $5-10 zone but ah well. The main focus is the new cards anyway and most of those are really good. There are a few duds (Awaken the Sky Tyrant being the standout) but so many of the new cards made me go either "I wanna brew with that" or "I should slot that in existing deck X", so at least that part was gotten right. Most (Not all) of the new legendaries are pretty interesting too, taking especially Orzhov into a nice new direction. So while I wouldn't say I'm hyped up about this product...I am statisfied.Posted in: Commander (EDH) -
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DoTArchon posted a message on Rudest/worst MTG opponent you've ever played?No one is defending this person. Everything about the interaction was unpleasant and that is unacceptable. The issue lies in your willingness to humiliate another human being, rather than trying to remedy the problem, either personally or by speaking to someone in a postion to do so.Posted in: Magic General
I disagree that this is off-topic, there are far too many posts in this thread that follow a similar line of thinking to yours and I think it needs to be addressed publicly. A few other members have said the same. A lot of these issues could have been avoided or resolved if people had just discussed things with either the problem person or someone of authority. This is something that the MTG community as a whole needs to realise and act on, we all play this game for the same reasons. To have fun (and yes, to win). -
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Tremor88 posted a message on [[Official]] General Discussion of the Official Multiplayer BanlistI'm reading these anti-sol ring posts, and wow you guys are noisy. There's a lot of talking and not a lot of listening. I used to share that view but I hope I never sounded that angry about itPosted in: Commander Rules Discussion Forum
First of all - show some damned respect. Sheldon, papa_funk, and the rest of the RC are legends in the magic scene. If you've watched pro tour footage you've probably seen Sheldon judging final tables. He understands competitive magic, and doesn't need a lesson on broken cards.
Secondly - they didn't just invent this wonderful format that we all love, they defined its guiding philosophy which has been the reason for its popularity and growth. This vision of EDH that has been continually challenged for these last ~10 pages or so IS what EDH is.
Perhaps instead of lecturing them on things you *think* they don't understand, stop and listen. There is wisdom and experience behind this philosophy, and if you make some effort to understand and appreciate it you might start to realize that it isn't "inconsistent" or "flawed" - it's actually beautiful.
I'm speaking as a guy who, at first, thought it was ridiculous that sol ring was legal. If you search my username on the now-retiring wotc forums, you'll see me making the same exact points that are being made now. Like EXACTLY. But that was a long time ago and I 'get it' now. And if you open your mind a little, you could too.
And you really should, because believe me, group magic is WAY more fun this way. Deckbuilding....somewhat less so, I'll admit. There is a certain pleasure to be found in tuning a decklist to near-perfection. But as far as actually sitting down for a game with others and enjoying the process of playing? Not even close...embracing the casual EDH philosophy is the way.
I see a lot of examples given, none of them actually applicable. Many of you are confusing banlist problems with social problems.
A guy dumping a bunch of mana rocks and winning uninteractively is not a banlist problem - that's a job for the social contract.
A guy enjoying a great start for krenko, or his voltron general can be fine - but if he decides to use that to focus one single opponent out of the game in 2 swings - that's another social issue too, believe it or not.
Casual play is all about understanding that sometimes it's worth sacrificing some %age of your win rate to ensure the game is more fun for your peers. And that includes everything from deck-building, to deciding who to attack. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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It's not the most powerful deck, but I have never seen another atraxa that plays quite like it.
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As it may sound, this deck will be playing commons that have not seem the light of day since one of the most notoriously de-powered sets rotated out of standard. I am aware that this is perhaps the most fragile glass cannon that could be built, and I hope you agree with me that it is hilarious. I am trying to make this deck as powerful/consistent as is reasonable possible without deviating from the tag line, so please suggest anything that comes to mind. Yes, I did just ask for consistency in mono-red.
The deck is built to utilize Zada, Hedron Grinder to radiate cantrip spells such as crimson wisps and chaotic strike, then leverage those into a higher storm count and mana with rituals like inner fire and/or battle hymn with the eventual goal of targeting Zada with multiple instances of arcane spells with overblaze and desperate ritual spliced in to overwhelm your opponents.
Like other Zada decks, we will be playing a large number of targeting pump spells, such as downhill charge, rouse the mob, and temur battle rage. Unlike other Zada decks, I don't want to settle for mere overkill. I want to cast path of anger's flame and other arcane spells with overblaze spliced into it as many times as possible. Side Note: current cap in testing has been 15 instances of overblaze and my personal damage record in game is 320 trillion.
1 Zada, Hedron Grinder
Artifacts
1 chrome mox
1 ruby medallion
1 helm of awakening
1 mana crypt
1 mox amber
1 phyrexian altar
1 scroll rack
1 sol ring
Creatures
1 mogg fanatic
1 skirk prospector
1 mogg war marshal
1 young pyromancer
1 priest of urabrask
1 krenko, mob boss
1 beetleback chief
1 pia and kiran nalaar
1 treasonous ogre
1 thopter engineer
1 spikeshot elder
1 siege-gang commander
1 goblin dark dwellers
1 goblin instigator
1 runaway steam-kin
1 imperial recruiter
1 blazing shoal
1 desperate ritual
1 into the fray
1 overblaze
1 path of anger's flame
1 unnatural speed
1 crimson wisps
1 chaotic strike
1 stun
1 boiling blood
1 accelerate
1 spawning breath
1 battle hymn
1 brightstone ritual
1 titan's strength
1 brute force
1 fatal frenzy
1 firestorm
1 expedite
1 rush of adrenaline
1 brute strength
Sorceries
1 fiery gambit
1 dragon fodder
1 mogg alarm
1 hordeling outburst
1 empty the warrens
1 krenko's command
1 devastating summons
1 twinflame
1 heat shimmer
1 molten birth
1 gamble
1 past in flames
1 mizzix's mastery
1 inner fire
1 kari zev's expertise
1 renegade tactics
1 distemper the blood
1 make mischief
1 rile
1 maximize velocity
1 reality scramble
33 mountain
1 Nykthos, shrine to nyx
1 Zada, Hedron Grinder
Ramp/Ritual
1 ruby medallion
1 helm of awakening
1 sol ring
1 skirk prospector
1 priest of urabrask
1 desperate ritual
1 battle hymn
1 fiery gambit
1 inner fire
1 brightstone ritual
1 treasonous ogre
1 chrome mox
1 mana crypt
1 mox amber
1 phyrexian altar
1 runaway steam-kin
1 kari zev's expertise
Cantrips and Hand Sculpting
1 scroll rack
1 crimson wisps
1 chaotic strike
1 stun
1 boiling blood
1 accelerate
1 titan's strength
1 fiery gambit
1 rile
1 renegade tactics
1 expedite
1 mogg war marshal
1 young pyromancer
1 thopter engineer
1 krenko, mob boss
1 beetleback chief
1 pia and kiran nalaar
1 spawning breath
1 dragon fodder
1 mogg alarm
1 hordeling outburst
1 empty the warrens
1 krenko's command
1 devastating summons
1 goblin instigator
1 twinflame
1 heat shimmer
1 molten birth
1 spikeshot elder
1 siege-gang commander
1 mogg fanatic
1 make mischief
1 goblin dark-dwellers
1 imperial recruiter
Arcane (6)
1 desperate ritual
1 blazing shoal
1 into the fray
1 overblaze
1 path of anger's flame
1 unnatural speed
1 brute force
1 fatal frenzy
1 maximize velocity
1 distemper the blood
1 brute strength
1 rush of adrenaline
1 distemper the blood
1 otherworldly outburst
Assorted Awesome (4)
1 past in flames
1 Mizzix's Mastery
1 gamble
1 firestorm
Lands (34)
33 mountain
1 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
goblinslidethe most effective token generating permanents this deck has to offer. These are especially effective when properly stacking the triggers to generate the tokens before Zada's trigger resolves. Pyromancer in particular quickly gets out of hand once twinflame has been cast a couple of times.Notable Current Exclusions:
No ramp?The cost reducing artifacts typically cover the grand majority of the colorless requirements. Colorless mana is nowhere near enough to keep the engines running, if you're looking to accelerate this deck look for sources of [mana]r/mana]. I added this exclusively to ramp out Zada sooner. It's usually dead weight if already going off. I may swap it back to a mountain. Definitely not required, but the sol ring -> cost reduction into turn 2 Zada + pyromancer hands tempted me with higher frequency.EDIT: I've rebalanced some of my cantrip suite recently and took out the least useful arcane carrier. The changes improved consistency, but sacrificed some of the instant speed flexibility. This means that a higher premium should be kept on the remaining instant speed options, in order to continue going off around disruption.
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So far this year's sets have given us rile and I had some fun with Hazoret's Monument in a slower build and may be worth it for you. I am still working on a version that creates fewer tokens via spells and plays 25-30 creatures. In that version, I am testing wily goblin.
I've never serously tested Aetherflux reservoir in Zada, but I expect that it could be less effective win condition to psychosis crawler. It also has some serious synergy with treasonous ogre as mana production via life gain. To answer your question: I definitely cast 10-20 spells when I am going off optimally, but these days my playgroup just scoops when I hit critical mass.
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earthcraft + 1 basic land that can tap for 3 + rings of brighthearth + Kamahl, fist of Krosa. If the lands are animated, they can tap to untap themselves, which can then be copied to untap other lands.
While I'm here, what are other people's opinion on harvest season? I run more mana dorks.
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I've never tested dynacharge, but I don't think it does enough for us. Most pump spells give something else in addition to power. I don't think that I would play a card that's just +2/+0 other than a small haze of rage.
Creatures that produce mana have treated me well, but it really does need to produce R to be the most effective in my opinion. Iron myr has been in and out of my deck fairly frequently. On a similar topic, I've had relatively good results from priest of urabrask. At the worse, it's basically a free zada target. At the best, it can be an effective ritual with cost reduction and twinflame effects. I may be biased because I got a win with the priest as my only ritual effect for the first 40 cards or so.
Regarding reforge the soul, or wheel effects in general: I don't play ones other than my current testing of fateful showdown. I chose this specifically to hold onto my arcane cards in hand. I need to say that not all Zada decks want to do this and I've seen some good Zada storm decks that do use the wheels and filtering to back up the cantrips.
My experience with faithless looting and other looting is that it can help with some of the poorer hands that we can draw. I chose to give up those cards to try and maintain a critical mass of pump and arcane spells. I considered filtering cards to be approximately equal to a creature in the presence of a cantrip when looking at the probability of drawing into another cantrip. I would argue that they are overshadowed by the cantrips, but it will depend on how many of each function you play. If you play a smaller arcane packeg or fewer pump spells, these can be effective without lowering the probabilities of drawing into what you need by too many percentage points.
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My quick search indicated that the Elder was a cheaper card, but I'd rate Pia and Kiran more important because it helps to have a critical mass of token sources.
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Until I read this I had misread it as 1 life per spell. So that means that this can net mana via treasonous ogre...
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