I was stressing my opinion that midrange isn’t viable at all.
Don't take this the wrong way, but if your opinion is so one-sided as to be "X isn't viable at all" and you start having to mess around with people's definitions of a word for your opinion to viable, it's a problematic view. Your actual view may be more realistic, but the words you are using are 'extremifying' it, to the extent that you've almost proven yourself wrong by definition. It doesn't allow for discussion, there's no compromise, no room for talk, you've not even given any room for your expressed view to be incorrect in the slightest.
As soon as a single midrange deck hits a top 8 anywhere in the world, your 0-100% opinion suddenly gets nulled the heck out.
Hyperbole just makes it easier to be disproven, even if it feels like it backs you up or makes a more more intense.
Advice: pull back on the extreme view about midrange. Settle on something more moderate like "it's not favoured right now" which is far easier to discuss and less easy to disprove. (and I think we'd all agree with you)
Oh and I think it's been satisfactorily shown that grixis death's shadow is at least partly midrange in its game-plan. There are no easily defined decks. Everything has a bit of everything. Stop trying to square-peg-round-hole and you'll probably find people here friendlier and more amenable to your views.
Except the view given to me was that the top 8 of the event was nice and healthy. I said as in no midrange decks ever. That was followed by the statement that 2 top 8’d and I believe that to be far from true. Midrange isn’t good right now and gds just isn’t a midrange deck, sorry but it’s just not. Mardu and gbx just isn’t a viable strategy right now. I’m not taking an extreme view I’m taking a realistic one. I play tons of modern decks, this isn’t a my deck isn’t good thing this is an archetype isn’t good thing. BBE and trophy haven’t been enough to bring midrange back. Mardu was great for about a month but it just can’t compete right now either. This was all a response to the top 8 being healthy but I personally think it was/is missing midrange being viable. Maybe gds can be midrange but that’s not how it’s winning it’s winning being tempo and aggro control.
Edit: and yes my post was supposed to say that’s all not at all but that’s beside the point.
why does it even matter. if you want to feel vindicated in believing midrange sucks, you dont need to reach that far. it does. traditional GBx was destined to fall in power level as the card pool grew. the format moves towards extremes and you just dont cover as much as well.
besides no matter how you categorize GDS someone loses. GDS is propping both midrange and 'grow' spell based tempo in representation. with grow decks actually being worse off since the next 'best' option is probably UR wizards, whereas jund and rock occasionally post high profile finishes at the SCG and GP level.
The argument on the previous page was that the priemier midrange deck had 2 spots in the top 8 so I was stressing my opinion that midrange isn’t viable at all.
Just asked another pro play what ds is because that’s who’s opinions matter I guess and gabe nassif said tempo definitely sometimes aggro control. I really don’t see it as midrange no mater how many ts/iok are in it.
While i agree that the numbers of UR Phoenix are kind of worrisome, lets not forget that the hype train is more than real on this one. After all it's finally a good blue and red deck with some "tempo plays" to it where you can play your Bolts + Cantrips while attacking with 3/2 flyers.
However, unlike many other linear decks this one dies more to interactive spells than pure sb hate which promotes decks that are heavy on interaction such as Bgx, GDS and Control. Overall this looks like the type of "linear deck" that could actually be good for moderns health.
Is it just hype? The deck has a lot of consistency and does what wants to do pretty much all the time. The last events I watched I've seen it do double phoenix turn 2 way to frequently for my own taste. It's not a turn 2 kill but it's close. I've seen them goldfish the heck out of Amulet/KCI, which is kinda scary.
To be fair, if it helps policing the dumb(er) linear decks I'm on board, specially since it has a even/negative matchup against the interactive decks which are needing a bit more representation.
Isn’t that how modern has gotten to the point it’s at. If this crazy thing helps against this crazy thing it’s ok (as long as that crazy thing isn’t twin). Is it really fun gameplay when before your first turn you’re looking at at least 6 damage on your next turn that you really can’t interact with unless you have t1 gy hate? The amount of times you saw on stream morphose x2 or x3 was rather crazy. I’m all for these decks too but just unban stuff if this is the modern world we live in.
Articles over a year old but I agree we don’t need to argue about our opinions or that just because pros think things doesn’t make them true. I respect your opinion just don’t agree.
Traditionally, tempo decks deploy threats and then protect the threats and/or disrupt the opponent while the threat wins. Midrange decks tend to disrupt first and then deploy threats on a safe board, although some will still seek to protect a deployed threat later. See the difference between traditional Delver builds (T1 Delver/Swiftspear, hold up protection/removal) and old school BGx (T1 DS into T2 removal/Bob into T3 Lily into a clock). GDS can certainly role-shift in matchups, but it's more fundamentally a midrange deck than a tempo deck.
So traditionally gds is tempo. That’s why it plays stubborn denial to protect its big threat it played on t2. Gds isn’t midrange imo.
The line of T2 GDS/Angler/Tasigur into Denial is way less common than the line of T1 removal/discard into T2 removal/discard/cantrip into T3 threat. You just need to look at the decklists to verify this, with few top-placing lists running more than 3 Stubs. Instead, they run 6 discard and 6+ removal, plus all the cantrips. Even without watching a single game, we can tell that the odds of drawing deployable threat into Stubs is way lower than the other play patterns.
That doesn’t change the fact that DS plays a threat and then protects it. They don’t look to grind out games they look to end them. They don’t often need the t2 stub when they go disruption, disruption, and then threat. They look to fade 1 turn then protect the queen. While smashing face (sometimes killing in 1 turn with tbr).
Traditionally, tempo decks deploy threats and then protect the threats and/or disrupt the opponent while the threat wins. Midrange decks tend to disrupt first and then deploy threats on a safe board, although some will still seek to protect a deployed threat later. See the difference between traditional Delver builds (T1 Delver/Swiftspear, hold up protection/removal) and old school BGx (T1 DS into T2 removal/Bob into T3 Lily into a clock). GDS can certainly role-shift in matchups, but it's more fundamentally a midrange deck than a tempo deck.
So traditionally gds is tempo. That’s why it plays stubborn denial to protect its big threat it played on t2. Gds isn’t midrange imo.
The fact that she’s a 1 card kill really makes it hard to see her not see modern play. Chord at eot means untap and you’re dead kinda like twin was. If you’re really interested in the deck just buy now because if it does see play like Phoenix it’ll be $$$.
Maybe drs is something we need. Help vs gy decks, help vs aggro, and make some midrange decks have a little more chance. I realize how toxic it could be but modern imo is already there.
A fixed version of DRS would be a good addition to Modern. What if DRS could only be cast for G, was a 1/1, and the abilities only dealt or healed 1 damage instead of 2? Is that still broken?
Maybe drs is something we need. Help vs gy decks, help vs aggro, and make some midrange decks have a little more chance. I realize how toxic it could be but modern imo is already there.
Electrodominance is a net positive for Modern's diversity. I bet it will make A TON of garbage decks into tier 3, maybe tier 2 as well, archetypes.
Personally, I can't wait to test it out in UR tempo builds. But, Living End is the real deck now.
Ponza, UR control builds,cascade decks, Grixis stuff(at your draw step, stop, instant speed thoughtseize you), Grixis Goryo's Kiki, and God knows what else.
Scapeshift maybe?
Can't wait for it! Johnny players, rejoice!
This is terrible in LE. Why would you want to cascade into this if you don’t have LE in hand. And ideally you don’t have LE in hand.
Because BB is black and plays with sprites well. How is fetch or shock cast a 1 drop better vs aggro though? That's to say nothing of fetch shock ts so I'm at 15 to start. What makes white better vs aggro?
Except the view given to me was that the top 8 of the event was nice and healthy. I said as in no midrange decks ever. That was followed by the statement that 2 top 8’d and I believe that to be far from true. Midrange isn’t good right now and gds just isn’t a midrange deck, sorry but it’s just not. Mardu and gbx just isn’t a viable strategy right now. I’m not taking an extreme view I’m taking a realistic one. I play tons of modern decks, this isn’t a my deck isn’t good thing this is an archetype isn’t good thing. BBE and trophy haven’t been enough to bring midrange back. Mardu was great for about a month but it just can’t compete right now either. This was all a response to the top 8 being healthy but I personally think it was/is missing midrange being viable. Maybe gds can be midrange but that’s not how it’s winning it’s winning being tempo and aggro control.
Edit: and yes my post was supposed to say that’s all not at all but that’s beside the point.
The argument on the previous page was that the priemier midrange deck had 2 spots in the top 8 so I was stressing my opinion that midrange isn’t viable at all.
Isn’t that how modern has gotten to the point it’s at. If this crazy thing helps against this crazy thing it’s ok (as long as that crazy thing isn’t twin). Is it really fun gameplay when before your first turn you’re looking at at least 6 damage on your next turn that you really can’t interact with unless you have t1 gy hate? The amount of times you saw on stream morphose x2 or x3 was rather crazy. I’m all for these decks too but just unban stuff if this is the modern world we live in.
That doesn’t change the fact that DS plays a threat and then protects it. They don’t look to grind out games they look to end them. They don’t often need the t2 stub when they go disruption, disruption, and then threat. They look to fade 1 turn then protect the queen. While smashing face (sometimes killing in 1 turn with tbr).
So traditionally gds is tempo. That’s why it plays stubborn denial to protect its big threat it played on t2. Gds isn’t midrange imo.
Healthy as in no midrange decks ever in modern.
Probably not good enough then honestly
This is terrible in LE. Why would you want to cascade into this if you don’t have LE in hand. And ideally you don’t have LE in hand.