- Theogony_IX
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Member for 13 years and 9 months
Last active Sat, Jun, 10 2017 18:27:41
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Sliver Lord posted a message on [CN2] Arcane SavantIt doesn't work in sealed, but it would work if you decided to do a draft with 5 9-card boosters per person. So if you do a "draft" with 90 1-card boosters per person...Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
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PyreDream posted a message on [[Archetype]] The importance of having Aggro, Midrange, and Control in cube.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype DiscussionQuote from Gubbe85Socrates didn't.
I almost stopped reading here. Morbid curiosity is my biggest flaw.
Quote from Gubbe85- Balancing a cube means you strive for the elimination of as much luck as possible. (The possibility is arbitrarily dictated i.e., you could build a 540 pack rat cube)
This is just a byproduct of the end goal, not a meaningful goal in itself. The game's inherent nature means luck can only be minimized, never eliminated. Even with that nonsense example of a Pack Rat cube. You would have to change the fundamental rules of the game, which is a step most cubers don't really follow.
Quote from Gubbe85- Having a good deck means nothing if your opponent has the same deck with 4 moxes, black lotus and recall.
You seem to be under the impression that there are winners and losers in cube, where winners have power and losers don't. This couldn't be less true in my years of drafting a 720 powered cube.
Quote from Gubbe85I don't know what i'm trying to say. You are not helping me either as you don't explain to me what I'm trying to say either.
Gubbe85, the rebel without a cause.
Quote from Gubbe85In any case, I'm a dog chasing cars. I wouldn't know what I would do with one if I caught it.
The Dark Knight references went out of style years ago and the implied Joker self-comparison, while shedding a light on some worrisome personality elements, is in bad taste. But hey, why not quote some Hunter S. Thompson and Che Guevara while you're at it, you gonzo revolutionary you. That'll make you look even more hip and intellectual
You've had a chance to expound (or is that excrete? :D) your views at length, so allow me to provide some free advice:
1. Speak English. You're not in philosophy class anymore, you're in the real world. No one is grading you on the size of your words or the lengths you go to in obfuscating your text. No one comes here for jargon masquerading as information. That's what the philosophy class was for! You've tightened up the screws and it shows, but the occasional stream of pseudo-academic prose still escapes. And it's a shame, because you sometimes show a brilliant turn of phrase lost in that self-congratulatory sludge. You have a gift that could spread understanding and instead spreads confusion.
2. No attacking other people's intelligence. Bad, bad Gubbe65. Just because Antknee considers himself fairly intelligent but might not be so, doesn't mean we have to compare him to Socrates (really, Socrates? You don't want to throw in Jesus Christ and Albert Einstein while you're at it?) just to make a point. That's what we save our arguments for.
3. If we have to talk about sending rabbits to Australia or soccer player Lionel Messi in a forum about Magic cards, you've probably gone too far. I'm not sure if you just like to wax lyrical without really thinking through the ramifications of your analogies or if you genuinely have no idea about limits, but I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt and ask that please, save yourself further embarrassment - when your next madcap idea clocks in with a flash of inspiration, check first to see if it holds water. Particularly if you're going to use it to challenge established ideas.
4. You are not the white knight, dark knight, or really any color knight this forum needs or deserves. When you spend as much time talking about your crusade as you do about your points, your entire "thing" becomes about the messenger instead of the message. And as much as Nietzsche popularized the "be a bastard to your fans" routine and your boy Socrates made it his signature style, it really doesn't work in a crowdsourced environment like the forums. You want to philosophize about Magic? Take some time and actually put together a theory with some substance. I welcome such a venture as something worthy of our intellects (if you'll excuse my humble belief that I even have an intellect, lol!). You want to use that opportunity to poke holes in the importance of aggro and talk about how dinosaurs actually had feathers? Yo, that sounds like a winning combination to me.
Sincerely,
A former philosopher -
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Antknee42 posted a message on [[Archetype]] The importance of having Aggro, Midrange, and Control in cube.I consider myself to be a pretty smart dude, to be knowledgeable about Cube and my vision of what it could/should be, to have a pretty extensive vocabulary and have a good ability to interpret and express concepts on a variety of topics.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion
And yet, Gubbe, I read some of your posts and really have no idea what exactly it is that you are trying to express. It seems like people agree with you, but then you say 'no it's more than that', and then expound about soccer and goblins and luck (?) and I'm left wondering what it is that you were trying to express deeper than what wtwlf has already said. The luck comment in particular makes no sense to me, as the reason Magic (and poker) are still around and played so widely is due to a higher variance factor than Vs. System and its ilk. Luck is part of the drafting process inherently, and that's OK, in my opinion. I don't think completely eliminating luck is something you want to be doing (or possible).
Good cube designers use all sorts of tools to balance their Cubes, but your posts often read to me as 'You're not doing enough to [evaluate] your Cube like I am' and I just can't find that new piece of groundbreaking Cube wisdom that you seem convinced you are expressing. I feel like the discussions in which you engage wind up being restatements of the same points, but using examples which don't really prove your point the way you want them to (like Manamorphose, seen above).
I say all of this not to be ill-spirited, but to try to help you focus what it is that you are trying to say. You obviously have a passion for this format that we have all come to love, and even after getting a mandatory vacation you came back to talk about it some more. I'd really like to be able to clearly understand what it is you are trying to say, and I hope this post helps you look inward a bit to find a way to do that and share your viewpoint more effectively.
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Humpty_Dumpty posted a message on Multiple Copies of Cards in CubeThe enjoyment provided by playing with Magic cards is artificial, and is outweighed by the fun I have using actual eldritch forces to destroy my enemies.Posted in: The Cube Forum -
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wtwlf123 posted a message on [[Archetype]] The importance of having Aggro, Midrange, and Control in cube.The cardinal rule is always to do what's best for the playgroup. If your dudes aren't forcing blue control decks to thrash your midrange heavy environment because everybody is playing a super lax table, then aggro isn't as important for you. It proved to be critical for us because control was too good in a format over-represented by midrange decks. Aggro had to be improved because players were breaking the table and exploiting the natural imbalances inherent to traditional midrange slugfest "dragon" cubes. If your playgroup isn't interested in exploiting format weaknesses to win, leave the Jackal Pups out of your list. If you find yourself (or others in your group) starting to take advantage of the laxness of your drafts and winning by forcing control, you might consider making aggro better to punish those players and fix the table. If it's not a problem for you because of the types of players you have, great. But if it starts to rear its ugly head at some point, you can start a new thread called: "My players are crushing my table with control, how do I make aggro better" ...and we can all chime in to help you out.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
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narb777 posted a message on [Official] Digital Rendering ThreadThe new planeswalkersPosted in: Artwork
Xenagos, the Reveler:
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver:
(there's really no replacing Karla Ortiz's original art)
Ashiok (Nightmare Frame):
Elspeth, Sun's Champion:
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wtwlf123 posted a message on [[SCD]] Elspeth, Sun's ChampionThis is a much stronger card than I anticipated. 6 mana is a lot, but 3 threats per turn is a lot. And in decks that are cranking out lots of token-sized threats, the wrath can be very lopsided in your favor. Definitely a good 'walker for sure, and if she continues to play as she's been testing, she'll be making it into my 450 list.Posted in: Cube Card and Archetype Discussion -
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kampfer3233 posted a message on [Official] Digital Rendering ThreadProgenitor MimicPosted in: Artwork
Melek
Sire of Insanity
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NathanZimmerer posted a message on Print This Wizards (so I can put it in my cube)GPosted in: The Cube Forum
Creature - Human
T, Sacrifice a land: Search your library for a basic land and put it onto the battlefield.
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Phantizle posted a message on "The Third Power" podcast thread.Cranky rant incoming:Posted in: Articles, Podcasts, and Guides
I'm a big fan, but I was sadly disappointed with the discussion about the singleton rule. About one percent of it focused on what was actually being proposed and said about breaking the singleton rule, and 99% focused on what no one was proposing (ALL GRAVECRAWLERS!). It seemed like the point of why this change was proposed was completely missed, and after the slippery slope fallacy was acknowledged, it was plummeted down headfirst. I got excited when Anthony (I believe) brought up the fact that the proposal was for fun purposes and not for power purposes, but that promptly got lost in further discussions.
I am probably more sensitive to this than most, since I'm trying a second set of fetches, but I was excited for a conversation about the ideas potential, rather than an exploration of problems no one with any common sense was going to face. Something akin to, "I'm not interested in doing this with my cube, but if I did, here re some cool ideas I'd play around with...". It just seemed close minded, which is not like you guys at all.
As for the semantic argument, again, I think you are worried about nothing. The cat is out of the bag in terms of uniformity. Cubes are nothing alike even when they do adhere to some basic guidelines, so when a powered 720 with double fetch lands calls itself a cube, you are blurring absolutely no lines. Cube long ago stopped being what it originally was (the best cards in magic smushed together in a singleton draft format). We have all sorts of descriptions and addendum and errata, so I have no idea why adding a second copy of Armageddon would change a cube to something else.
Hope that wasn't too harsh. Keep up the good work. I was surprised that Tundra was not the runaway first pick in the crack-a-pack, especially over Siege Gang Commander, which is mostly just a solid role player these days in my cube. - To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
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While the anthem on Angel is cool, you have to already have a board for that anthem to pay off above its own servos. The problem is, if you have a board for this thing to pump, then it will be rare instances where you'd want to drop the angel to make your team better rather than hold it in reserve for when the board gets cleaned up. In those instances, sure, Angel is better, but most of time, Cloudgoat would do the job just as well because it goes wider and can adapt on the fly. What you get from Angel is both a token producer and an Anthem, but this is really only best for tokens.dec. That is a little too narrow an application for a higher cmc card.
Without that, it essentially has two modes, Baneslayer Angel mode and Cloadgoat Ranger mode. But it a poorman's imitation in either mode. In return for its loss of efficacy, you gain some cool interactions with Recruiters, Reveillark, and Alesha, Who Smiles at Death. If I have to cut one of my two 5 drops to fit the Angel in, the question becomes, are those interactions and added flexibility enough to pay you back for the loss of impact?
For me, the answer is no. I don't have much room in the five drop slot, so if I put something there, I want it to be the best at what it does. Even if that means losing some flexibility. This would have to be my third 5 drop with Cloudgoat and Baneslayer, which is still high praise for this card.
Also, Baneslayer is the boss monster. Queen beast. I'm not cutting her until they make a better her.
tldr; This is a modal creature that is either a poorman's Cloudgoat or a poorman's Baneslayer. The flexibility doesn't make me want to cut either of the originals. I'd only run it as the third 5 drop.
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Welcome to cubing. It's the best format I've found for simply hanging out with your friends. Here is a little terminology commonly used on these boards and background for cube so that you can make more informed choices.
Theatre - there are three major theatres related to cube that are discussed here on the boards. The aggro theatre, the mid-range theatre, and the control theatre. Many cube managers here attempt to balance these theatres by providing the support necessary in enough quantity to allows these types of decks to be drafted regularly and completely. However, in this cube, I do not try to balance these theatres at all, at least not in the traditional sense. Instead, I try to balance Archetypes.
Archetype - an archetype is a particular strategy a deck uses to win the game. For example, a token archetype uses tokens and anthems to create a dominant board position. A graveyard archetype uses the graveyard to create a dominant board position. A prison archetype uses hindrances to opponents to create a dominant board position. I try to select generals based on the archetype they support in the deck and then build the cube around those archetypes providing enough support for those generals to shine.
Cube size - your cube size can vary. I selected this cube size based on the number of drafters I had and what I wanted to see. When choosing a cube size, you need to consider three things.
-The range of cards you want to see. Will seeing the same good cards in many drafts bore you or keep you excited?
-How selective you want to be in choosing which cards make it in and which cards are cut. Some people don't want to cut cards they like just because something better was printed, some don't mind because a better card is better.
-The variance between the best cards in the cube and worst cards in the cube. The larger the cube, the lower the average power level of cards in your cube. It's like looking at the top 10 percent of cards versus looking at the top 20 percent of cards. The top 10 percent has an average power level of the 95th percentile. The top 20 percent has an average power level of the 90th percentile.
I chose a cube that supports 8 drafters. This gave me a good balance between the range of cards we saw (we like playing with the best even if we see those card regularly, but with only 4 players, we only see 50% of the cube in a draft), and the variance in powerlevel (the worst cards in the cube aren't too far from the best cards in the cube). However, this makes adjusting the cube to fit new cards more difficult on me because I have to be very selective, a price I am happy to pay.
All of my cards are double sleeved. I use a clear inner sleeve oriented with the open side at the bottom of the card, that I slip that into a regular sleeve oriented with the open side up. This creates a pretty solid barrier to liquids seeping inside so long as you don't leave them sitting in a large puddle. If I remember correctly, I ordered the brand Perfect Fit.
I don't balance the cube based on rarity. I simply put the best 576 cards into the cube that support my general's archetypes. As a result, I don't bother trying to balance the boosters based on rarity. It is all random.
This cube is built to support up to 8 players in a draft or 4 players in sealed. We typically play with only 4 of us and that is why I settled on this cube size. If we want to see the whole cube we can do that playing with 144 card sealed pools. Or if we want some variance and/or want to do multiple drafts seeing different cards each time, we can do that with 72 card draft pools.
With 8 drafters, a 15 card pack goes around almost twice. That means, you get 2 cards from the pack you open and from the six packs you saw next. In a four man draft with 15 card packs, you see the same pack almost 4 times. The packs start to become stale and unexciting and the best archetypal cards are easily hate drafted because drafters now they will see that same pack again 3 more times allowing them to grab other options later with ease. This has the effect of seeing decks with more mid-draft-picks rather that top-draft-picks. Reducing the pack size to 8 for a 4 man allows each pack to go around twice so they stay exciting and make your draft choices matter more. It also gives you more first picks allowing you to build a better deck.
Life total isn't much related to deck size. Life total is more related to the amount of damage that can commonly be dealt out in a single turn. This EDH cube focuses on large, haymaker plays where getting hit for 5-10 life is common. Having a higher life total allows for some back and forth rather than seeing the player with the best starting momentum swing the the game in his or her favor and no one being able to recoup.
Yup, that's pretty much it. When you draft your general, the focus isn't only on color though. You also want to focus on the archetype that general supports. You have Karador, Ghost Chieftain in your general pool and he sounds like fun to you. In your first pack, you see Grave Titan, Damnation, and Oppression. Damnation is probably top pick for me, as board resets are a good ace in the hole if you aren't the one with momentum. Grave Titan is also a top contender, great stats, can take over the game, and has fantastic synergy with a ton of black's other cards . . . including Karador. However, Oppression is the arguably best of these three to work with Karador at the helm as it quite literally oppresses the rest of the table in a way that doesn't affect you the same way . . . especially if you build around it. At the same time, you might see a Consecrated Sphinx in the pack and decide going blue is a better option simply on power and ignore what your blue generals actually do.
You're welcome. I hope this helps.
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Tough crowd, lol. Nope, I meant them just as they are. They need to be pushed in order to create the right amount of tension between two options. I figure a pushed body is more in line with today's design standards than an over powered effect. I'm also designing these as something that might fit into the smaller cubes (my own), so naturally, the bar is set fairly high and will appear obviously above the curve. You may scoff, but if I'm going to suggest a card, I should at least be able to slot it into my cube.
Also, I really see no argument as to why red can't have a Savannah Lions by today's standards other than wizards hasn't taken the time to print one yet. But I can see how it might offend a person's sensibilities, so imagine it says "can't block" on it. It would still be a fine inclusion even with that sort of drawback. Inner Growth is no Bitterblossom either. In fact it's comparable to Master of the Wild Hunt in that Master puts more power on the board than Inner Growth does with both coming down on curve.
@PyreDream: I always like the Augur cycle. That is a cool design.
@6jerfz: Reminds me of Dusk Urchins. That's another card I really liked.
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This seems like a very bad way to test the card and see what it's really capable of. It's kind of difficult to actually know if it's better or worse than the cards you're picking over it if you never play it, don't you think?
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Lack of fast mana definitely makes it more palatable. That is, relative to being with fast mana. This isn't as noticeable when you're the one being Twisted since it still comes as a surprise to you, but it's very noticeable when you're the one casting Twist having to wait for the card to reach its premium effectiveness. If your players can recognize this when they're on the receiving end of Mind Twist, then the card can become tolerable as players can acknowledge when it was well played.
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Guild
Shard
Wedge
5-Color
UUUUU
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WWWWW
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Blue Sun's Zenith
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Academy Ruins
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Yavimaya Hollow
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Skullclamp
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Batterskull
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Utility Land
Last updated 8/26/2012.
Creature: 36%
Sorcery: 15%
Land: 13%
Artifact: 12%
Enchantment: 12%
Instant: 9%
Planeswalker: 3%
Conclusion: Like all cubes, much of the game is centered around combat. However, the politics of the game warp combat in many ways, making non-creature spells the more vital tools in a player's deck.
Mana Requirements
White: 20%
Blue: 21%
Black: 21%
Red: 18%
Green: 20%
Conclusion: Red is our least mana intensive color - fixing can be less of a priority. Blue and black are the most mana intensive colors - fixing should be a high priority.
Curve
Average Converted Mana Cost: 4.21
0 cmc: 3 cards
1 cmc: 35 cards
2 cmc: 67 cards
3 cmc: 108 cards
4 cmc: 84 cards
5 cmc: 86 cards
6 cmc: 68 cards
7 cmc: 39 cards
8 cmc: 21 cards
9 cmc: 3 cards
10 cmc: 3 cards
11 cmc: 2 cards
12 cmc: 1 cards
Conclusion: The peak of the curve plateau's across converted mana cost 3, 4 and 5. Between turn 4 and turn 5 is when games start to really move. If by the end of turn 6 you have not been able to start moving your game plan along, you will fall behind and be at an extreme disadvantage without a board reset or some way to accelerate your position.
Display cube statistics
[640][Commander] Wildfire393's EDH Cube
[745][Commander] Dolono's EDH Cube
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I think Antknee is right, some honest self-reflection is what is called for here. It's one thing to say that differing philosophies are able to carve out their own space to be developed here on these boards. It's another thing entirely to say that we actively help to cultivate a space for these ideas to develop. Allowing the former is not the same as doing the latter. Also, how often in our dicussion are we more focused on being right and proving our points, than we are in giving consideration to where different ideas might fit? The two are not mutually exclusive, but the more of one you focus on the less room there is for the other. I'd rather my own behavior were more in line with cultivation and consideration, but my own self-reflection informs me that I have occassionally fallen short of that ideal.