did anyone notice? this deck auto looses to judge deck check. tinker is banned in legacy
Big opps on my part. ><!
I think my last post was the original post on this thread.. I've been so in and out of the loop on magic lately :S
My last Legacy tourney (which was a flop... a no show event) was about 2 years ago, and since my move out from my location in Michigan to Washington, i've hardly played magic. Since i wanted to redo the deck, i sorta went through my cards and rebuilt the deck and the thought didn't really cross my mind.
Lemme rework that out of the deck and come up with a new posting. I wasn't really a fan of Fabricate, but if that's the route i need to go for Artifact tutor i might do that. Enlightened Tutor would be an option (i did want to run Elspeth, Knight-Errant as a possible planeswalker)...
Bumping this old thread as i've finally gotten around to redoing this idea. I still firmly believe this can be a good deck idea with the right inspiration.
Updated the deck list.. and looking for more creative ideas to push Proliferate into the field.
Made a thread a while back supporting a 5 color build around sunburst and proliferate. I scrapped the idea, and figured i would start out fresh with this build that i would like to abuse.
And as always, i am more than willing to make a detailed Primer if this idea actually becomes worthwhile.
Deck Objective: Utilize the power of Proliferate to keep Fading permanents alive and ramp cards that build off Charge Counters. The deck focuses on locking the opponent down via Tangle Wire and/or Parallax Tide. Win condition at the moment revolves around a large and fast Chimeric Mass or aided help from my Planeswalkers.
I was hoping to stir up conversation on this idea.. in hopes that i could find a way to make this deck work out, without the fear of being disrupted easily. Any thoughts or suggestions?
What about trading out Seal of Fire for Lightning Bolt? Being able to set aside the 2 damage for whenever you need is a cool feature, but a sorcery speed shock isn't. And 1 damage doesn't seem like much, but seeing as Magic has been pushing out fast beat creatures with a bit of meat on their bones, that extra 1 damage could be a savior.
Standstill is an awesome card. Great card to end the turn with.. One of those good mind trick cards. It keeps your opponent from wanting to play anything to keep you from gaining a large tempo, yet can always be played right before you drop a spell down. Turn 4 Standstill//Burning Inquiry after Tyranny is out seems really fun =P
Saw Winds of Change on a previous list, never knew it existed. Might be a great card to try, though it could prove too slow later in the game.
My only suggestion i can see as of now would be to drop the Leaks for Arcane Denial. Same cost, for a hard counter... and a chance to get the opponent to draw into more cards... plus you don't lose card tempo with it.
My only other worry would be running up against an aggro deck.. someone who can drop their cards faster than you can set up.. or can push though your lack of defense. Its too bad Lethal Vapors is too slow
Kills me to see this thread having all the action. I feel like the list i posted makes good use of all said ideas. I can list out the cards for my build here... i feel like you guys are missing out on premium cards out there.. but i'd be easier to read my write up on my first post.
Shessh bud. You and I are building off the same style. My original idea was to use Reactor as well but that's just too slow.
Check out my decklist in the Legacy Casual section. I was gonna put it up here, but i didn't know how "competitive" these legacy buffs would think it is... yet its far from "casual".
I went a more aggro route, and i run all 5 colors. You complained that there wasn't a colorless Peacekeeper. If you ran all 5 colors you could have it. =]
My deck revolves around Sunburst, Charge/Loyalty/Fading Counters, and Proliferate. Its of the same idea you aimed at. Perhaps we could work together to try and make something happen. =]
Hope my deck idea sheds some light on what you wanna do. And of course, you can bounce any idea off on me and i would be more than happy to process my thoughts =P
I'll offer some suggestions since you commented on mine =]
Well, when i clicked into this list, i thought i'd see some of the Affinity artifacts from the first Mirrodin set. You referred to the deck as an aggro deck, but it seems more of a mid-range style deck. Quick artifacts to set youself up, some decent cards for early beat, then finishing off with a burn spell or a strong casted artifact creature.
I guess i'd like to know the direction you want to take it. Do you like the aspect of burning them or drawing large amounts of mana for your 3 mentioned cards, or are you interested in strong artifact creatures that can hit hard and quickly?
I feel like the Vulshok creatures are a bit misplaced. 3 mana for a 1 toughness creature can be costly (even if its just 3 mana). Its got a nice ability along the lines of your deck idea, but i just... feel like there could be something better in place of it.
Here's some good artifact creatures that would fit in, and give that aggro feel.
Tezzeret was a big mention by my local friend for my deck. I think once Tezzeret is online, i should easily be able to dig though my deck for a cheap artifact card each turn. And his 3rd ability is pretty screams "good game" considering almost every card i run is an artifact. I think a single copy of him in the deck would work out fine. =]
Grindclock was in the deck, and was the card that sort of started this whole idea. I was going to build a mill deck and use them (mainly cause i pulled one as a foil in my box).. but it seems a bit too slow and lacked some form of defense while i set up. Since my deck has fast ways of pushing out damage i think trying to fit mill in as well might be too much.
Regardless, great suggestions =]
Going to edit the first post and get Tezz in the deck. =P
off topic: The art for Thrummingbird makes it out to be an artifact. So silly that its not.
Good suggestions. I've considered the Chalice. Even as is, i could just load 1 counter on it and slowly press its way up. But i feel like it's too slow to start off (for my deck), and then it will ramp up so high that all that mana would be useless. I mean i suppose it could be a good mana outlet after i pop a Dais for a large draw flavor. But a good portion of my cards are mana color cost cards, or play off sunburst. I'm not too sure all that colorless mana would be needed. I'll put it this way, its not a card that would hurt to have, but i'm not too sure on what would need to be removed to make room for it.
Thrummingbird is an interesting idea. A cheap creature with a good evasive ability to trigger off Proliferate. I love the interaction with Coretapper's 2nd ability, to trigger 2 charge counters right when he hits play (at the cost of sac'ing him). But the biggest thing i like about Core that i don't about the bird is one's an artifact and one isn't. Arcbound can grab coretapper back, and he can help trigger off Golem Foundry.
Thirst and Thoughtcast are good suggestions, but at the moment i'm not sure on what to remove for them. In fact that's my biggest problem with the deck. I'm just not sure on what i don't really need, and what do i need more of. Draw power, i believe i have enough of, with Jace and Dais. Not bad suggestions though.
Academy Ruins is a great tip. I use to run it in my standard control deck back in Time Spiral. Kinda shocked i never thought of them. Might have to squeeze the land around and add 1 or 2.
Welder... a great suggestion, but i wouldn't be sure on what artifact i would want to ditch off the field (except for maybe a troublesome Tangle Wire) for something in the grave. Unless someone sends an important card to the grave, most of what will be in there will be Coretappers, or any other artifact with a sac power. Although, i could always ditch an artifact land for something else. Hmmmmmm... I might have to think on him =]
I like the suggestions. Keeps them coming. Is there anything in my original list that should be switched around? Removed? More added?
Idea: The point is to combine the power of cards that generate counters, with the power of Proliferate + Charge counter production.
Win condition come from a plump Chimeric Mass. The deck also shines with a permanent lockdown through Tangle Wire, or endless turn cycles with Magistrate's Scepter. Tutor your cards out with Bringer if you really need.
Breaking down other cards with counters (though they explain themselves): Culling Dais - Insane draw power at a cheap price. Pentad Prism - Free mana! Golem Foundry - Easy creature engine. Good fodder to sac off for Geth. Clearwater Goblet - Fuel to recover from Bringer life loss. Lux Cannon - Just because. Engineered Explosives - Usually doesn't get Proliferate targets.. but always has that option Arcbound Reclaimer - Finds your artifacts back, keeps you from decking.
Planeswalkers - Jace for draw fuel, Elspeth for protection and well.. because its Elspeth.
Changed my Stasis around. Haven't had a real chance to slap it down against a serious group of legacy players.. so i don't have solid results to back the idea with.
I've slowly changed my Stasis build back to the way it use to be, prior to the post i made on here. The post here was after a swift beating playing another Stasis deck. I modified my version, and posted what you saw on page 1. I feel, even through the counterspells, that decks could find answers even after i setup Stasis.
I feel this version lacks on the counterspells, though. I wanted to go back to my Wish build, because the toolbox to fight through a situation was always wonderful. White offered some great ways to rebound from a bad moment, and gain ground again.
Amazing. I took a break from playing magic due to lack of time, to see that my thread has exploded. What a wonderful thing to stumble upon with my return back to playing
I've been toying around with this deck off and on over the last year, getting daily spurts to play again and ending up not.. I've made random deck attempts on MWS to try new ideas to safely keep the lock in check. Today was another one of those spurts to play, but this time i decided to check my thread. Glad i did ^^
There's a ton of amazing ideas over the past several pages. Pretty exciting to see chatter going on cause of my post.
Through reading the thread, i've briefly looked at everyone's lists and read their arguments for what makes their build good. I'm not so sure on the Green Blue version, it looks like an interesting idea. But i've been stuck on whether run Mono Blue or Blue White. My decks still built as the list shows on the website, i only changed it on paper. I like the ideas and discussion Alpha bases off of. It makes the deck preform much smoother if you only run 1 color. When i do splash, i add like.. 1 plains. And fetch cards.. just so its not super common to see that white.
Many suggestions were mentioned that i've tried. My old statis lock was Stasis + Vedelken Mastermind. I had attended a tourney where i went up against another Stasis.. which was just crazy to see 2 stasis decks face off in a legacy tourney. His was far more stable and ran off Chronotog. Since playing him, it's the build ive been far more sucessful with.
I'm gonna revamp my original deck, and keep checking this thread out. Sheesh, had i known there was discussion going on here i woulda got back in months ago
I should probably read though everything here.. i have commons/uncommons pulled aside that i thought would have been suggested or used in people's cube.. that i didn't see in the OP's list.
Big opps on my part. ><!
I think my last post was the original post on this thread.. I've been so in and out of the loop on magic lately :S
My last Legacy tourney (which was a flop... a no show event) was about 2 years ago, and since my move out from my location in Michigan to Washington, i've hardly played magic. Since i wanted to redo the deck, i sorta went through my cards and rebuilt the deck and the thought didn't really cross my mind.
Lemme rework that out of the deck and come up with a new posting. I wasn't really a fan of Fabricate, but if that's the route i need to go for Artifact tutor i might do that. Enlightened Tutor would be an option (i did want to run Elspeth, Knight-Errant as a possible planeswalker)...
Bah. Sorry about that. I'll get it fixed
**Edit**
Deck has been edited.
-4 Crystal Vein
-4 Saprazzan Skerry
-4 Tinker
-1 Magistrate's Scepter
+4 Plains
+1 Island
+3 Calciform Pools
+4 Enlightened Tutor
+1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Updated the deck list.. and looking for more creative ideas to push Proliferate into the field.
And as always, i am more than willing to make a detailed Primer if this idea actually becomes worthwhile.
Deck Objective: Utilize the power of Proliferate to keep Fading permanents alive and ramp cards that build off Charge Counters. The deck focuses on locking the opponent down via Tangle Wire and/or Parallax Tide. Win condition at the moment revolves around a large and fast Chimeric Mass or aided help from my Planeswalkers.
Current Decklist as of May 12, 2011
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Calciform Pools
4x Glimmervoid
5x Island
4x Plains
Engine: 15
3x Contagion Clasp
1x Contagion Engine
4x Energy Chamber
4x Throne of Geth
3x Thrummingbird
4x Chimeric Mass
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4x Everflowing Chalice
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1x Magistrate's Scepter
3x Parallax Tide
4x Tangle Wire
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
4x Enlightened Tutor
2x Gifts Ungiven
I was hoping to stir up conversation on this idea.. in hopes that i could find a way to make this deck work out, without the fear of being disrupted easily. Any thoughts or suggestions?
Saw Winds of Change on a previous list, never knew it existed. Might be a great card to try, though it could prove too slow later in the game.
My only other worry would be running up against an aggro deck.. someone who can drop their cards faster than you can set up.. or can push though your lack of defense. Its too bad Lethal Vapors is too slow
Awesome deck though =]
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=279219
Hope my deck gives aid to you all looking for a win condition.
Check out my decklist in the Legacy Casual section. I was gonna put it up here, but i didn't know how "competitive" these legacy buffs would think it is... yet its far from "casual".
I went a more aggro route, and i run all 5 colors. You complained that there wasn't a colorless Peacekeeper. If you ran all 5 colors you could have it. =]
My deck revolves around Sunburst, Charge/Loyalty/Fading Counters, and Proliferate. Its of the same idea you aimed at. Perhaps we could work together to try and make something happen. =]
Hope my deck idea sheds some light on what you wanna do. And of course, you can bounce any idea off on me and i would be more than happy to process my thoughts =P
Well, when i clicked into this list, i thought i'd see some of the Affinity artifacts from the first Mirrodin set. You referred to the deck as an aggro deck, but it seems more of a mid-range style deck. Quick artifacts to set youself up, some decent cards for early beat, then finishing off with a burn spell or a strong casted artifact creature.
I guess i'd like to know the direction you want to take it. Do you like the aspect of burning them or drawing large amounts of mana for your 3 mentioned cards, or are you interested in strong artifact creatures that can hit hard and quickly?
I feel like the Vulshok creatures are a bit misplaced. 3 mana for a 1 toughness creature can be costly (even if its just 3 mana). Its got a nice ability along the lines of your deck idea, but i just... feel like there could be something better in place of it.
Here's some good artifact creatures that would fit in, and give that aggro feel.
I like the idea you got going for ya though =]
(i'd post more but i have to get ready for work ><)
Tezzeret was a big mention by my local friend for my deck. I think once Tezzeret is online, i should easily be able to dig though my deck for a cheap artifact card each turn. And his 3rd ability is pretty screams "good game" considering almost every card i run is an artifact. I think a single copy of him in the deck would work out fine. =]
Grindclock was in the deck, and was the card that sort of started this whole idea. I was going to build a mill deck and use them (mainly cause i pulled one as a foil in my box).. but it seems a bit too slow and lacked some form of defense while i set up. Since my deck has fast ways of pushing out damage i think trying to fit mill in as well might be too much.
Regardless, great suggestions =]
Going to edit the first post and get Tezz in the deck. =P
Good suggestions. I've considered the Chalice. Even as is, i could just load 1 counter on it and slowly press its way up. But i feel like it's too slow to start off (for my deck), and then it will ramp up so high that all that mana would be useless. I mean i suppose it could be a good mana outlet after i pop a Dais for a large draw flavor. But a good portion of my cards are mana color cost cards, or play off sunburst. I'm not too sure all that colorless mana would be needed. I'll put it this way, its not a card that would hurt to have, but i'm not too sure on what would need to be removed to make room for it.
Thrummingbird is an interesting idea. A cheap creature with a good evasive ability to trigger off Proliferate. I love the interaction with Coretapper's 2nd ability, to trigger 2 charge counters right when he hits play (at the cost of sac'ing him). But the biggest thing i like about Core that i don't about the bird is one's an artifact and one isn't. Arcbound can grab coretapper back, and he can help trigger off Golem Foundry.
Thirst and Thoughtcast are good suggestions, but at the moment i'm not sure on what to remove for them. In fact that's my biggest problem with the deck. I'm just not sure on what i don't really need, and what do i need more of. Draw power, i believe i have enough of, with Jace and Dais. Not bad suggestions though.
Academy Ruins is a great tip. I use to run it in my standard control deck back in Time Spiral. Kinda shocked i never thought of them. Might have to squeeze the land around and add 1 or 2.
Welder... a great suggestion, but i wouldn't be sure on what artifact i would want to ditch off the field (except for maybe a troublesome Tangle Wire) for something in the grave. Unless someone sends an important card to the grave, most of what will be in there will be Coretappers, or any other artifact with a sac power. Although, i could always ditch an artifact land for something else. Hmmmmmm... I might have to think on him =]
I like the suggestions. Keeps them coming. Is there anything in my original list that should be switched around? Removed? More added?
Decklist as of Oct 23, 2010
2x Great Furnace
3x Seat of the Synod
3x Ancient Den
4x Vault of Whispers
2x Tree of Tales
4x Glimmervoid
1x Tendo Ice Bridge
1x Academy Ruins
4x Coretapper
2x Arcbound Reclaimer
4x Bringer of the Black Dawn
Artifacts: 27
4x Chimeric Mass
1x Clearwater Goblet
2x Culling Dais
1x Golem Foundry
4x Energy Chamber
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Magistrate's Scepter
4x Pentad Prism
4x Tangle Wire
3x Throne of Geth
1x Lux Cannon
1x Inexorable Tide
1x Tezzeret the Seeker
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
2x Great Furnace
4x Seat of the Synod
3x Ancient Den
4x Vault of Whispers
2x Tree of Tales
4x Glimmervoid
1x Tendo Ice Bridge
Creatures: 10
4x Coretapper
2x Arcbound Reclaimer
4x Bringer of the Black Dawn
4x Chimeric Mass
1x Clearwater Goblet
2x Culling Dais
1x Golem Foundry
4x Energy Chamber
2x Engineered Explosives
1x Magistrate's Scepter
4x Pentad Prism
4x Tangle Wire
3x Throne of Geth
1x Lux Cannon
1x Inexorable Tide
1x Jace Beleren
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Idea: The point is to combine the power of cards that generate counters, with the power of Proliferate + Charge counter production.
Win condition come from a plump Chimeric Mass. The deck also shines with a permanent lockdown through Tangle Wire, or endless turn cycles with Magistrate's Scepter. Tutor your cards out with Bringer if you really need.
Breaking down other cards with counters (though they explain themselves):
Culling Dais - Insane draw power at a cheap price.
Pentad Prism - Free mana!
Golem Foundry - Easy creature engine. Good fodder to sac off for Geth.
Clearwater Goblet - Fuel to recover from Bringer life loss.
Lux Cannon - Just because.
Engineered Explosives - Usually doesn't get Proliferate targets.. but always has that option
Arcbound Reclaimer - Finds your artifacts back, keeps you from decking.
Planeswalkers - Jace for draw fuel, Elspeth for protection and well.. because its Elspeth.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Darksteel Reactor
Contagion Engine
Jinxed Choker
Grindclock
Goblin Welder
Everflowing Chalice
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I've slowly changed my Stasis build back to the way it use to be, prior to the post i made on here. The post here was after a swift beating playing another Stasis deck. I modified my version, and posted what you saw on page 1. I feel, even through the counterspells, that decks could find answers even after i setup Stasis.
This is what i run now.
3x Flooded Strand
3x Forsaken City
4x Glacial Chasm
9x Island
2x Mystic Gate
1x Plains
Creatures: 4
2x Chronatog
2x Vedalken Mastermind
Artifact/Enchantment: 19
4x Chrome Mox
2x Ebony Owl Netsuke
2x Sensei's Divining Top
3x Standstill
4x Stasis
4x Tangle Wire
4x Arcane Denial
4x Cunning Wish
3x Daze
4x Remand
1x Argivian Find
1x Disenchant
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Holy Day
1x Orim's Chant
1x Counterspell
1x Divert
1x Trickbind
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rescue
1x Reset
1x Hurkyl's Recall
1x Mana Short
1x Sunder
1x Turnabout
I feel this version lacks on the counterspells, though. I wanted to go back to my Wish build, because the toolbox to fight through a situation was always wonderful. White offered some great ways to rebound from a bad moment, and gain ground again.
I've been toying around with this deck off and on over the last year, getting daily spurts to play again and ending up not.. I've made random deck attempts on MWS to try new ideas to safely keep the lock in check. Today was another one of those spurts to play, but this time i decided to check my thread. Glad i did ^^
There's a ton of amazing ideas over the past several pages. Pretty exciting to see chatter going on cause of my post.
Through reading the thread, i've briefly looked at everyone's lists and read their arguments for what makes their build good. I'm not so sure on the Green Blue version, it looks like an interesting idea. But i've been stuck on whether run Mono Blue or Blue White. My decks still built as the list shows on the website, i only changed it on paper. I like the ideas and discussion Alpha bases off of. It makes the deck preform much smoother if you only run 1 color. When i do splash, i add like.. 1 plains. And fetch cards.. just so its not super common to see that white.
Many suggestions were mentioned that i've tried. My old statis lock was Stasis + Vedelken Mastermind. I had attended a tourney where i went up against another Stasis.. which was just crazy to see 2 stasis decks face off in a legacy tourney. His was far more stable and ran off Chronotog. Since playing him, it's the build ive been far more sucessful with.
I'm gonna revamp my original deck, and keep checking this thread out. Sheesh, had i known there was discussion going on here i woulda got back in months ago
I should probably read though everything here.. i have commons/uncommons pulled aside that i thought would have been suggested or used in people's cube.. that i didn't see in the OP's list.