Thanks for the input guys. You're right, a few of the dragons are there for nostalgia/flavor. I can afford to drop a few of the cheap dragons for Belbe's Portal/Quicksilver Amulet/Urza's Incubator. Knowing how much this deck cycles, I should probably throw in a Reito Lantern too. All great suggestions.
Mana-Charged Dragon's gotta stay though. He earned his keep for me in multiplayer games. Especially in 2-headed giant. To each their own
I like the list. I've been thinking about converting Bladewing the Risen into Mr Z for a while, this looks similar to what I brainstormed. How many players in a typical game do you have?
Thanks. It's pretty fun to play. I plan to pick up Thundermaw Hellkite after rotation. It's already dropped in value and I'm just waiting for the right trade to come up.
My playgroup tends to favor 4-player FFA and sometimes 2-headed giant. If there's an odd number we do star. We also do quite a bit of 1v1 while we wait for others to show up.
Hey guys. Below is my Zirilan of the Claw deck. It's semi-budget (you could prob build it for about $100 if you shop around) and semi-casual, but I've found that it holds its own. I know an all Dragon deck isn't seen as super viable, but it's a ton of fun and you'd be surprised at the utility these dragons bring. Plus, I run 1 non-Dragon, so it's technically not an all-dragon deck
Remember: If Zirilan of the Claw sticks around you pretty much won the game. Of course, this means that he usually won't stick around. You will be hard casting dragons. This is why we run so many mana rocks and are able to cycle so many cards. Not only does it tilt our opponents (ruining their finely crafted hand) but it really helps us situate ourselves.
Some people don't like Wheel of Fortune like effects. Remember, just because you can cast it, doesn't mean you have to. But it's nice to have the option.
Decklist
Copy and paste into deckstats if you want to see the details)
These 2 allow for an easier time with Zirilan. Not to mention how well Fervor works with dragons Koth of the Hammer Sundial of the Infinite Keep your dragons when cast by Zirilan
10 mana rocks may seem like a lot, but you need a plan for when (not if) your general can't do his thing. You have enough card cycling to be able to draw what you need when you ramp
I know it's sorta far fetched, but a part of me is hoping the weapons are actually legendary enchantments (not creature enchantments). They would have some sort of triggered ability (ie a heroic act) to make them manifest and buff/debuff a creature or something. Even cooler would be if when the trigger requirements are met, it creates a token weapon.
Too much speculation sorry. Regardless the art looks amazing and I'm really looking forward to this set from a flavor standpoint if nothing else.
Interesting to see someone play with Koth of the Hammer, I never considered him as he cost 4, and this is quite high in a deck like ours, but it might be worth trying as a 2-of.
Honestly, I love Koth in my deck. I have a really low mana curve - Koth tops it at 4. And he's a 2-of
@Everyone
You have my version of the deck some posts above, but I play Goblin Guide and as I'm trying to play Gob as in Legacy (which might be the wrong way to go, I still have to test) which means with some mana denial, I don't think he helps us really a lot, I've seen a lot of person playing with Foundry Street Denizen and saying he is wonderful, but I've also heared a lot of good things about Spikeshot Elder and I like this card a lot, even more as I'm playing a Vial version of the deck (so we don't really need the mana to play our creatures, or not all that often), but I just can't choose between both, which one would you guys play in my version?
For your deck, I would run Foundry Street Denizen. Spikeshot is a good goblin, but I feel that oftentimes he's too slow/mana intensive. If you can actually afford the manasink go for it, but since you have a Vial build, Foundry seems like he can do some good burst damage some turns (and sneaky if you vial in a Mogg War marshal after blockers are declared).
So I took my mono-red list to the Modern FNM and it performed really well. It went 3-0 (and then I had to drop due to other commitments). Below is my feedback regarding certain cards as well as an updated decklist.
MVPs Faithless Looting
To be honest, I'm not quite sure why this card is not seeing more play. It fixes so many of our problems. It helps gives us that mid-game fuel (ie 3-4 mana) to let us push through that last little bit of damage. I play it as a 2-of and it seems to be the right number. I was always happy to see it.
Koth of the Hammer
I play in a removal heavy meta. This card gives us some much needed reach while avoiding common removal like bolt & wrath effects. What's my opponent going to use? Path to Exile? I'll gladly let that trade happen, haha.
Mogg War Marshal
We all know this card is good. But, I didn't realize how amazing it was. This card provides options. It was a 3-of, will be bumping it up to a 4-of
Cards that didn't quite make it Krenko, Mob Boss
Very much a win-more card. He came down either when it was too late for me, or I had the game pretty much wrapped up. It was a 2-of and now it's been cut.
UPDATED DECKLIST
So given my thoughts above, I have made the following changes. The most notable one being that I decided to splash white for Boros Charm. I think it will work nicely and give us the option to play Path to Exile, etc. It's a slightly different route in that it does not do some of the hate that the other white decklists here are doing. It sticks much more to the goblin "theme"
I think this kind of Blind Obedience to goyf is embarrassing. First you say that Flinthoof is strong but useless without land support. I guess that means Nactyl was useless without land support too, in other words its awesome. Next you say all you need to make goyf huge is to play green then play cards. Exaggerate much?
Do you even care that Deathrite Shaman hoses goyf while gaining his owner life, and shocking you. Oh and hes a mana dork. Oh and he hoses a lot of other popular cards in the format like kitchen finks.
Goyf is a great card. But you are right, I don't believe that now is the time to buy Goyfs for value. Because of the meta (Deathrite Shaman, other 2cmc creatures, etc) I'd hold off on picking them up until MM.
I play modern almost exclusively in paper. The modern community here is solid and growing rapidly. There are 3 stores near me that run modern events on various days. They pull anywhere from 8-30 people (30 being the modern FNM).
Quick update: Out of curiosity, I did some digging to see the decks that have performed and ran Gitaxian Probe.
Fortunately, we have an entire season to look back on. Below is a list of deck archetypes that placed well and contained Gitaxian Probe at a PTQ or higher level since the 1st of the year:
Who is saying this?? Re-read the thread with a +1 to comprehension. There is no discussion going on here as to what decks can run probe.
...
Good day sir.
Instead of arguing with me just to argue, please read the thread and you will find there has been several excellent posts discussing the potential merits of the card in various decks. They've just been drown out by your decision to argue.
Grit probe is awesome, but i needs to fix what deck you want it to be in. Probe is great because of 3 reasons
1. It lets you peek
2. It can be played for free
3. It is cycles.
If you think about 1, it helps you plan your game plan out. Combo, tempo, and control like this. aggro/midrange/ramp would prefer not to be reactive, but proactive.
As for 2, combo decks like this and tempo. Free spells let them get a head one way or another. Storm count, niv eats them, ect.
Lastly number 3 gives you a 56 card deck. Combo likes this more than anyone else. Allows them to get to the power cards.
I've been contemplating the idea of probe + meddling mage for a while now as a potential component of some sort UWr geist deck but haven't actually thrown a list together yet.
The peeking is actually pretty relevant, you could run Street Wraith otherwise (which I'd maybe recommend if there ever were a grixxis Storm).
However, as most manabases are pretty selfhurting (not to mention Thoughtseize) I'd stay away from Probe in a non-combo deck.
Decks where it could see some increased play in the future if something else enables those decks:
Storm - Will take something significant to bring it back, but when it does, it likely wants Probes
DredgeVine - Possibly useful if something boosts this deck to more playable, but Grisly Salvage may have usurped the room for it.
I certainly ask myself often if the deck I am working on wants probe, but the answer is often No.
Whether or not I agree with them, all are great points and show the strengths and weaknesses of the card. This is the kind of discussion I would like. As I said before, I'm trying to foster a discussion on the possible applications of the card. If you are unable to productively contribute, then please leave.
Its not acceptable for just any combo deck. Thats the part you are glossing over and the part that you and I do not agree about. An all in combo like Pyromancer or Storm or Eggs can run this. Combo-aggro hybrid decks like Infect, or Living End, or Dredge do NOT use probe.
Now back to your UW quest deck (not letting this go since you are in denial about it). That deck is not a combo deck. It's even more aggro-based than Infect which is not pure combo. Just because you weaken your game plan by putting in 8+ filter cards in it instead of embracing your alternate aggro based plan doesn't make it "more combo" than Nick's version. It just makes it less consistent and just worse in general.
Sorry if that's harsh but the truth can be like that sometimes.
Hrm... I'm not quite sure you are understanding. At all. In fact, I'm sure you are not. Let's try this approach: We all agree that Gitaxian Probe works in an all-in combo decks. There are others in this thread that believe that Gitaxian Probe can do some work in tempo, and control. I tend to think there's room for probe there as well -hence this thread. If you do not believe probe can work in any other decks, feel free to leave the thread. I'm trying to foster a discussion on the possible applications of the card. To date, you have said nothing but "it only works in combo and now I'm going to cross-thread argue with you." Let's keep it constructive.
(If you would really like to continue the discussion on the U/W deck, please PM me. I'm happy to discuss the merits of whether or not that deck has enough combo-like elements to warrant probe).
I guess there are a few things to cover... Haha. I read over your post Spraek and I really like the idea of Batterskull. I don't know why I over looked that. I'll have to try it out, probably over the second Argentum Armor. Glorious Anthem is nice because it buffs everything but I like the interaction with Tempered Steel and Blinkmoth Nexus as late game consistency. I'll keep it in mind while I playtest and see if the damage output would change significantly with those two cards swapped out.
On the other hand, I didn't want to go as deep on the Quest plan as you seem to have gone. It is a strong interaction but I figured it would be better to avoid losing to not seeing Quest in my opener by emphasizing the Tempered Steel/aggro back up plan. It just seemed more consistent than running dig spells in an aggro deck. Gitaxian Probe and the like make a lot of sense in your deck because you are trying to assemble the combo and win that way. Like you have said, to each their own. The list I posted fits my playstyle more so than assembling combo pieces.
I wanted to let you know about a little extra value you missed out on in your primer. In the example in your primer, you say you can play Faerie Imposter to bounce Ornithoper on turn 3. However, you could play Imposter and bounce Glint Hawk, replay Hawk, bounce Ornithopter and replay it. It gets you an extra trigger on Quest. Just something I thought you should be aware of regardless of how relevant it may or may not be.
As far as Blinkmoth Nexus vs Darksteel Citadel, I run the Nexus for it's ability to avoid sorcery speed removal. I played Tempered Steel in standard and Glint Hawk Idol was one of the strongest cards for that reason. So, with a Tempered Steel in play, Blinkmoth allows you to maintain a decent clock even if the opponent wiped your army.
Outside of that, the lands really need to produce white and blue. It makes Glint Hawk and Faerie Imposter more consistent pieces. I tried the deck with Plains instead of Adarkar Wastes and ran into several times having Imposter in hand and unable to play it.
Thank you understanding. You're absolutely correct. My version of quest is much more committed. I go for quest and if that doesn't work, then I transition over to an aggro plan. It doesn't always work (such is life) but it works consistently enough for me to play it. I've yet to have someone not scoop to a resolved turn 2 Argentum Armor annihilating their key piece (whether it be land or something else).
I guess there are a few things to cover... Haha. I read over your post Spraek and I really like the idea of Batterskull.
Batterskull is a great card. You may not always need Batterskull in your deck, but I found it quite useful against decks that run heavy removal (ie bolt'ing/path'ing the ornithopter in response to a Glint Hawk cast (forcing you to sac it too)). Nothing's more depressing than being able to pop quest and not be able to equip an equipment to anything - that's where Batterskull shines.
I wanted to let you know about a little extra value you missed out on in your primer. In the example in your primer, you say you can play Faerie Imposter to bounce Ornithoper on turn 3. However, you could play Imposter and bounce Glint Hawk, replay Hawk, bounce Ornithopter and replay it. It gets you an extra trigger on Quest. Just something I thought you should be aware of regardless of how relevant it may or may not be.
Glad you saw that, most people didn't. I left it out because popping a six counter Quest is not different than a 5 counter Quest
I actually really like your deck. I think I may sleeve it up and see how a less committed Quest version goes. My main concern when I was building my version was that I wasn't sure there was space for 2 fully committed gameplans.
If you dont want to listen to me listen to pretty much everyone on this thread that is saying the same thing I originally told you.
You keep saying its a play style difference which is a nice way of saying you don't agree with me and that's fine, but you are not giving any actual reason for using the card. You say your deck plays more like a combo deck, but true combo decks do not really interact with their opponents in any meaningful way and vice versa. The quest deck is somewhere between an aggro deck and an Infect deck. Infect decks would have more reason to run G-Probe than your quest deck, and I dont see them running it.
You think that the Peek allows you to play around their removal spells but unless you are planning on countering them or discard them, you dont need to know their hand to play around them. You should be playing around removal spells anyways, whether you saw them with probe or not. So if you peek at their hand and you find no removal spells that really doesn't mean anything as soon as they draw a card. You have to assume it could have been a removal spell they drew and you play around it.
I guess what irks me is the idea what you are just blindly using the probe without truly understanding the mechanics of it. I mean use whatever cards you want, I am only really trying to help you.
The last sentence is pretty amusing as I have backed every argument with stats and facts. I'm pretty sure you are in full on troll-mode, but I'm going to answer as best I can:
If you dont want to listen to me listen to pretty much everyone on this thread that is saying the same thing I originally told you.
Everyone in this thread agrees. Even you and I Gitaxian Probe works in great in combo decks (as was stated in the my previous post). I'm not quite sure why you keep bringing up the U/W deck. I get it. You disagree with me. Fine. I feel it has enough combo-like elements to warrant probe. You don't. Let's move on to the original point of the post. The potential of applying Gitaxian Probe to other decks.
You think that the Peek allows you to play around their removal spells but unless you are planning on countering them or discard them, you dont need to know their hand to play around them. You should be playing around removal spells anyways, whether you saw them with probe or not.
There are so many things wrong with this paragraph, I guess I'll start from the beginning. Google game theory. In particular "perfect information". And if you really want to dig down, do some reading on the consequences between a decision maker that has perfect information against one that does not. As someone whose job literally revolves around game theory, I encourage everyone to read up. Very useful and applicable to well... everything, lol.
In this case there are HUGE perks to having perfect information. You know exactly what your opponent has (or doesn't). This optimizes your game play as you know exactly what your opponent can and cannot do. It also greatly reduces your chance of error. It may not always be of benefit (meaning you'd still play the exact same way), but you won't know that if you haven't played probe. You stated that you should always play around removal. That's one of my points. With probe, you know exactly whether or not you have to.
So if you peek at their hand and you find no removal spells that really doesn't mean anything as soon as they draw a card. You have to assume it could have been a removal spell they drew and you play around it.
I think you are forgetting that you can cast probe during the 1st main phase. It doesn't affect your mana & allows you accurately plan your turn. For one turn, you have perfect information. In following turns you get to make less assumptions which in turn provides less chance of error.
Phew. Sorry about that. I'm not trying to rant; I'm genuinely trying to articulate the pros to the peek ability as it seems to have been overlooked.
Anyways, back to the question at hand. I think we've all agreed that probe is a great card in combo decks, etc. Do you guys think that Gitaxian Probe has room for decks that are not combo? Does the option of paying 2 life to cycle and gain the knowledge of your opponent's hand provide enough value to place it in other decks? I also play it in Faeries, but I've dropped it to a 2 or 3 of as I am running Vendilion Cliques as well
Great discussion so far guys! There are some very valid points both for and against it. I feel as most people do: the card adds a lot of value in combo decks & decks that need to dig. But only if you can afford to pay the life/mana.
+1 Storm count: Well worth it in storm decks, useless elsewhere.
+1 Peek: Knowing your opponents hand is fun but unless you have a counterspell suite or conditional discards, knowing some of their cards wont help you win. If you are playing a non interactive deck (such as the UW quest deck you ripped this debate from) what good is knowing what your opponent is holding? You cant do anything to stop their game plan anyways...
MemoryLapse, in the case of the U/W quest, I think it's just a playstyle difference. That deck plays more like a combo deck for me so I really gain value from the probe.
I think you are undervaluing the Peek ability. A lot. You don't have to run conditional discard or counterspells to gain from knowing an opponent's hand. You also gain the ability to play around your opponents removal/gameplan. That's HUGE. Knowing how your opponent may respond allows for you to play tighter and gives you the ability to make decisions based off of facts (such as calling their bluff if they're sitting on Lightning Bolt mana, etc)
Don't get me wrong. The card is not perfect, but there's a lot of value to be gained from it in the right deck.
Mana-Charged Dragon's gotta stay though. He earned his keep for me in multiplayer games. Especially in 2-headed giant. To each their own
Thanks. It's pretty fun to play. I plan to pick up Thundermaw Hellkite after rotation. It's already dropped in value and I'm just waiting for the right trade to come up.
My playgroup tends to favor 4-player FFA and sometimes 2-headed giant. If there's an odd number we do star. We also do quite a bit of 1v1 while we wait for others to show up.
Remember: If Zirilan of the Claw sticks around you pretty much won the game. Of course, this means that he usually won't stick around. You will be hard casting dragons. This is why we run so many mana rocks and are able to cycle so many cards. Not only does it tilt our opponents (ruining their finely crafted hand) but it really helps us situate ourselves.
Some people don't like Wheel of Fortune like effects. Remember, just because you can cast it, doesn't mean you have to. But it's nice to have the option.
Decklist
Copy and paste into deckstats if you want to see the details)
1 Zirilan of the Claw
//Dragons
1 Dragon Mage
1 Ryusei, the Falling Star
1 Dragon Tyrant
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Scourge of Valkas
1 Hellkite Tyrant
1 Archwing Dragon
1 Balefire Dragon
1 Dragon Whelp
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Fledgling Dragon
1 Furnace Whelp
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Hoarding Dragon
1 Kilnmouth Dragon
1 Knollspine Dragon
1 Mana-Charged Dragon
1 Moltensteel Dragon
1 Moonveil Dragon
1 Nalathni Dragon
1 Scourge of Kher Ridges
1 Thunder Dragon
1 Utvara Hellkite
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Shivan Dragon
1 Dragonspeaker Shaman
//Spells
1 Chaos Warp
1 Starstorm
1 Faithless Looting
1 Wild Guess
1 Reforge the Soul
1 Shattered Perception
1 Incendiary Command
1 Winds of Change
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Relentless Assault
1 Comet Storm
1 Red Sun's Zenith
1 Blasphemous Act
1 Fireball
//Enchantments
1 Stranglehold
1 Price of Glory
1 Aggravated Assault
1 Smoke
1 Curse of Bloodletting
1 Electropotence
1 Fervor
1 Gratuitous Violence
1 Pandemonium
1 Where Ancients Tread
1 Koth of the Hammer
//Artifacts
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
1 Fire Diamond
1 Mind Stone
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Serum Powder
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Star Compass
1 Worn Powerstone
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Sundial of the Infinite
//Lands
32 Mountain
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Homeward path
1 High Market
1 Kher Keep
Breakdown of non-dragon cards:
Hate Cards
Stranglehold
Price of Glory Greatest hate card that no one really talks about. Seriously. Click the link and see for yourself.
Smoke
Removal
Red card "advantage"
Double Dragon
Because a Dragon by itself is never enough of an advantage. When you get in for damage, it's going to count.
Misc
These 2 allow for an easier time with Zirilan. Not to mention how well Fervor works with dragons
Koth of the Hammer
Sundial of the Infinite Keep your dragons when cast by Zirilan
Ramp
10 mana rocks may seem like a lot, but you need a plan for when (not if) your general can't do his thing. You have enough card cycling to be able to draw what you need when you ramp
Dragons!
Dragon Mage - Card advantage
Knollspine Dragon - Card advantage
Dragon Tyrant - Massive Damage
Bogardan Hellkite - Damage/Board wipe
Scourge of Valkas - Hilarious with Utvara Hellkite
Balefire Dragon - Board wipe
Scourge of Kher Ridges - Targeted removal
Kilnmouth - Damage
Hellkite Charger - Double damage
Flameblast Dragon - Targed removal
Thunder Dragon - Board wipe
Stell Hellkite - Removal
Hoarding Dragon - Tutor
Dragon Whelp - Sometimes you need cheap creatures
Fledgling Dragon - Sometimes you need cheap creatures
Furnace Whelp - sometimes you need cheap creatures
Mana-Charged Dragon - politicking
Moltensteel Dragon - Unexpected 1-shots
Moonveil Dragon - Creature buff
Nalathni Dragon - Nostalgia
Shivan Dragon - Nostalgia
Utvara Hellkite - Bonus dragon!
Too much speculation sorry. Regardless the art looks amazing and I'm really looking forward to this set from a flavor standpoint if nothing else.
Mostly because I can'd find my Arid Mesas, haha
Honestly, I love Koth in my deck. I have a really low mana curve - Koth tops it at 4. And he's a 2-of
For your deck, I would run Foundry Street Denizen. Spikeshot is a good goblin, but I feel that oftentimes he's too slow/mana intensive. If you can actually afford the manasink go for it, but since you have a Vial build, Foundry seems like he can do some good burst damage some turns (and sneaky if you vial in a Mogg War marshal after blockers are declared).
So I took my mono-red list to the Modern FNM and it performed really well. It went 3-0 (and then I had to drop due to other commitments). Below is my feedback regarding certain cards as well as an updated decklist.
For the record, here is the old list:
20 Mountain
//Creatures
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
3 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin King
2 Krenko, Mob Boss
//Spells
2 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Goblin Grenade
3 Burst Lightning
MVPs
Faithless Looting
To be honest, I'm not quite sure why this card is not seeing more play. It fixes so many of our problems. It helps gives us that mid-game fuel (ie 3-4 mana) to let us push through that last little bit of damage. I play it as a 2-of and it seems to be the right number. I was always happy to see it.
Koth of the Hammer
I play in a removal heavy meta. This card gives us some much needed reach while avoiding common removal like bolt & wrath effects. What's my opponent going to use? Path to Exile? I'll gladly let that trade happen, haha.
Mogg War Marshal
We all know this card is good. But, I didn't realize how amazing it was. This card provides options. It was a 3-of, will be bumping it up to a 4-of
Cards that didn't quite make it
Krenko, Mob Boss
Very much a win-more card. He came down either when it was too late for me, or I had the game pretty much wrapped up. It was a 2-of and now it's been cut.
UPDATED DECKLIST
So given my thoughts above, I have made the following changes. The most notable one being that I decided to splash white for Boros Charm. I think it will work nicely and give us the option to play Path to Exile, etc. It's a slightly different route in that it does not do some of the hate that the other white decklists here are doing. It sticks much more to the goblin "theme"
Changes:
-2 Krenko, Mob Boss
-3 Burst Lightning
-8 Mountain
+4 Boros Charm
+1 Mogg War Marshal
+4 Sacred Foundry
+4 Marsh Flats
4 Goblin Guide
4 Legion Loyalist
4 Goblin Bushwhacker
4 Mogg War Marshal
4 Goblin Chieftain
4 Goblin King
4 Boros Charm
4 Goblin Grenade
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Faithless Looting
2 Koth of the Hammer
//Land
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Marsh Flats
12 Mountain
Your thoughts are always appreciated
Goyf is a great card. But you are right, I don't believe that now is the time to buy Goyfs for value. Because of the meta (Deathrite Shaman, other 2cmc creatures, etc) I'd hold off on picking them up until MM.
Fortunately, we have an entire season to look back on. Below is a list of deck archetypes that placed well and contained Gitaxian Probe at a PTQ or higher level since the 1st of the year:
Infect (U/G Infect)
Splinter Twin
Storm
Grixis Delver
Merfolk
Instead of arguing with me just to argue, please read the thread and you will find there has been several excellent posts discussing the potential merits of the card in various decks. They've just been drown out by your decision to argue.
A few good examples:
Whether or not I agree with them, all are great points and show the strengths and weaknesses of the card. This is the kind of discussion I would like. As I said before, I'm trying to foster a discussion on the possible applications of the card. If you are unable to productively contribute, then please leave.
Hrm... I'm not quite sure you are understanding. At all. In fact, I'm sure you are not. Let's try this approach: We all agree that Gitaxian Probe works in an all-in combo decks. There are others in this thread that believe that Gitaxian Probe can do some work in tempo, and control. I tend to think there's room for probe there as well -hence this thread. If you do not believe probe can work in any other decks, feel free to leave the thread. I'm trying to foster a discussion on the possible applications of the card. To date, you have said nothing but "it only works in combo and now I'm going to cross-thread argue with you." Let's keep it constructive.
(If you would really like to continue the discussion on the U/W deck, please PM me. I'm happy to discuss the merits of whether or not that deck has enough combo-like elements to warrant probe).
Thank you understanding.
Batterskull is a great card. You may not always need Batterskull in your deck, but I found it quite useful against decks that run heavy removal (ie bolt'ing/path'ing the ornithopter in response to a Glint Hawk cast (forcing you to sac it too)). Nothing's more depressing than being able to pop quest and not be able to equip an equipment to anything - that's where Batterskull shines.
Glad you saw that, most people didn't. I left it out because popping a six counter Quest is not different than a 5 counter Quest
I actually really like your deck. I think I may sleeve it up and see how a less committed Quest version goes. My main concern when I was building my version was that I wasn't sure there was space for 2 fully committed gameplans.
The last sentence is pretty amusing as I have backed every argument with stats and facts. I'm pretty sure you are in full on troll-mode, but I'm going to answer as best I can:
Everyone in this thread agrees. Even you and I
There are so many things wrong with this paragraph, I guess I'll start from the beginning. Google game theory. In particular "perfect information". And if you really want to dig down, do some reading on the consequences between a decision maker that has perfect information against one that does not. As someone whose job literally revolves around game theory, I encourage everyone to read up. Very useful and applicable to well... everything, lol.
In this case there are HUGE perks to having perfect information. You know exactly what your opponent has (or doesn't). This optimizes your game play as you know exactly what your opponent can and cannot do. It also greatly reduces your chance of error. It may not always be of benefit (meaning you'd still play the exact same way), but you won't know that if you haven't played probe. You stated that you should always play around removal. That's one of my points. With probe, you know exactly whether or not you have to.
I think you are forgetting that you can cast probe during the 1st main phase. It doesn't affect your mana & allows you accurately plan your turn. For one turn, you have perfect information. In following turns you get to make less assumptions which in turn provides less chance of error.
Phew. Sorry about that. I'm not trying to rant; I'm genuinely trying to articulate the pros to the peek ability as it seems to have been overlooked.
Anyways, back to the question at hand. I think we've all agreed that probe is a great card in combo decks, etc. Do you guys think that Gitaxian Probe has room for decks that are not combo? Does the option of paying 2 life to cycle and gain the knowledge of your opponent's hand provide enough value to place it in other decks? I also play it in Faeries, but I've dropped it to a 2 or 3 of as I am running Vendilion Cliques as well
MemoryLapse, in the case of the U/W quest, I think it's just a playstyle difference. That deck plays more like a combo deck for me so I really gain value from the probe.
I think you are undervaluing the Peek ability. A lot. You don't have to run conditional discard or counterspells to gain from knowing an opponent's hand. You also gain the ability to play around your opponents removal/gameplan. That's HUGE. Knowing how your opponent may respond allows for you to play tighter and gives you the ability to make decisions based off of facts (such as calling their bluff if they're sitting on Lightning Bolt mana, etc)
Don't get me wrong. The card is not perfect, but there's a lot of value to be gained from it in the right deck.