I finally found a thread here for this deck. Unfortunately I saw no discussion about it on the Storm forums. Looking forward to some matchup analyses. Do you have time issues when playing this deck? Against decks that can't interact that well with the combo (Stompy, Infect etc) I was scooping g2 if I won g1 due to time constraints.
Why 3 Mnemonic Wall? I noticed you are running only 20 lands. Is it enough for you?
I used to play this deck a lot, time is its biggest drawback, you simply don't have time for 3 games (at least I don't) That said its extremely consistent, and scooping game 2 is the ultimate pro strat, might as well be on the play. I'd agree that MBC and fast aggro are the hard matchups, all the others actually feel pretty easy.
Its easy to over sideboard in burn. Even if you had an answer to Elderscale Wurm, you still have to fight hard to win after getting rid of it. Turning a 20/80 matchup into a 30/70 matchup is really not much of a gain worth devoting slots to. At some point you juts have to accept you will lose games and not be able to do anything about it.
Has anyone compared Eidolon to timewalk yet? No, ok then I will.
Its not just "2 mana, 2 damage, dies to removal". They are forced to remove it right away, usually eating up their whole turn to do so, and getting a card out of their hand, so its basically a timewalk that does 2 damage as well.
Sure its not ideal if they remove it right away, you would rather it sticks around longer, but its not the end of the wolrd if they do and you still get good value out of it. It also means less removal for your other creatures. In a lot of cases I am perfectly ok with playing eidolon as a lightning rod.
So I know its not literally timewalk before someone calls me out, but you have to take the resources your opponent uses in dealing with it in consideration when evaluating it.
Well said.
A huge part of burn is baiting your opponents. Similarly to playing around and/or into wasteland with PoP, its not always correct to just jam everything you've got. Some times its ok to run bolts and other instants straight into a counter to tap them down and let you resolve a vortex. Often times if the pace of the game allows it its correct to pass a turn or 2 doing nothing just so you can better overload their resources.
Whoever compared eidolon to standstill was definitely right. Some games you will want to jam it on turn 2 and race, but other times it makes for a great way to sit slow the game to a halt to let you refuel your hand.
Turns 1-3 in a burn are usually easy, but turns 4+ are where sequencing and managing both your own and your opponents resources matter a lot.
Yea I get the analogy. My biggest issues is Price of Progress, once a player knows your playing burn they are fetching for basic lands. There are times POP is dead in my hands, other times I'm lucky to hit them for 2 damage. Sure you can win games with POP - but to play a burn deck without POP is insane. So I usually play 3 POP's in my deck.
PoP is one of the first cards to get sided out, and thats the beauty of it. You side it out and your opponent then slows themselves down playing around a card you don't even have.
This is where it is important to know your opponents deck. Decks like U/R delver and U/W miracles don't have too hard of a time fetching basics, so you side PoP out, and still get the benefit of them playing around it. But against a deck with a greedier manabase, like Jund, or BUG you keep it in because its not as easy for them to just fetch basics.
Against those decks though you have to play around their wastelands, sometimes its ok to burn a low to no damage PoP just for the tempo gain when they waste their own lands. Other times its better to save it waiting for them to tap down.
I watched some of Eggit's stream and was appalled by some of the decisions he made.
So was I lol
I play like ***** on Modo, I've probably only played 25 or so games on it total and spend so much time worrying about miss clicks that I don't think through my plays enough. I need more practice with both the deck and modo itself. I have no idea how many times I have let a ninja of the deep hours through when I meant to prevent it.
I really want to give unearth a try though, it does sound like a great card in the deck, but I am not really sold on staggershock. It really feels too slow in this deck to me.
If you wouldn't mind PMing some of the bad decisions you saw I'd like to hear, but I probably knew they were bad at the time, and if you watch again feel free to post em in chat, I don't mind being called out. This is eggit BTW in case that isn't clear, new forums new name change.
Going to try and stream an 8-man tonight if one pops in time. http://www.twitch.tv/esporks
And I punted 2 8-mans horribly. I'm not used to the mtgo interface and it makes me flustered into making stupid plays.
If only there were a way to not view something we didn't want to. Something like a remote control only for the computer. Alas we have no such thing and are thus forced to watch everything that comes by.
As soon as you figure out how to travel into the future while watching a twitch live stream, let me know. It doesn't help that they play the same clip over and over either.
Always sad to see someone lose their job. I hope he finds something comparable financially soon, but I won't miss him from MTG coverage. He wasn't good.
This is basically how I feel, but I know a large portion of the community didn't like his content which may have been why he was sacked.
Also the first time piloting the deck aside from 2 practice games. Seeing the deck called "GRUW" makes me think we need to splash unearth just so the name has the full impact. Although I guess "Grow" works too since you are growing your creatures with domain and enchantments.
Mezzel and _Tezzeret were the 2 delver decks I took loses too, and I think seijim2 might have been the burn deck. I also beat Xochipilli in round 1.
Not sure how that elves matchup is, he got a really fast combo game 1, but game 2 and 3 I had elecktrickery in my opening 7.
I'm also planning on streaming this deck when I can, probably doing another pre on saturday. http://www.twitch.tv/esporks
Mind posting your list and SB plan?
I think my biggest problem with delver is a SB plan, I don't really want to take anything out. Maybe the 3 drops just to play around counters better I guess.
I was bringing it against any deck I thought would either be a race, or where I would need to stabilize. It came in handy against delver, I'm not sure if I played against any other creature based strategies.
Its a great way to make a guy big enough they just can't deal with it, and its also a good way to be able to apply some pressure while building up defenses int he form of padding life.
Lol, coming from the guy playing Reality Acid. It wasn't too long ago that that was the new janky deck everyone was trying out.
There was also a point where he called my cards bad, yes wild nacatyl, brainstorm, and tribal flames are "bad cards", they definitely haven't proven themselves to be multi format all stars, and are much worse than the 10th power of reality acid.
Thats one reason I really like this deck, you get to play legacy staples at full power, its pretty awesome.
Having played against Jund a lot I actually feel like they should side out lilli against us, but they are probably too afraid to board out such a good card. Pitch a genesis wave, you won't be casting it for a while. Cast a harmonize, draw an e-wit and get back your wave when its time.
It sounds so crazy, but this deck can out grind jund. Jund players haven't adapted to that yet, the longer the game goes the more it swings in our favor which is so abnormal for jund.
Its the games where they get t1 thoughtsieze on your ramp, then drop a goyf and beat you down before you get to 6 mana that really hurt. I also don't feel like bob is that good against us. Yes its a good card, but once you put them on the backfoot they end up racing their own bob and the lifegain and plow modes of primal command both do some great work there.
I've won a few games from a jund player burning themselves with bob and trying to stabilize with a batterskull, I really hope you enjoy flipping batterskull to bob for the next 4 turns!
I will never, ever believe that Reality Acid is a real deck, unless they get a new card that makes them function reliably. Maybe that enchantment-bouncing serpent in BNG will break through for them? Tribal Flames for a kill-shot.
Game 1 I was able to get his only reality acid with a pridemage, he still got a 2 for one, but i was able to overrun him big beaters while he attempted to clog the board with sea gate oracles and wall of omens.
Game 2 was a major grind fest, I did get 2 reality acids with ray of revelation, but he eventually took the game.
Game 3 I went abundant growth > Presence, Growth > Aura Gnarlid > Rancor, Rancor. He didn't even let me swing before he went on his rant about my "5 color pile".
I don't think the matchup is good, I think I just got lucky and caught my opponent off guard.
I used to play this deck a lot, time is its biggest drawback, you simply don't have time for 3 games (at least I don't) That said its extremely consistent, and scooping game 2 is the ultimate pro strat, might as well be on the play. I'd agree that MBC and fast aggro are the hard matchups, all the others actually feel pretty easy.
Its not just "2 mana, 2 damage, dies to removal". They are forced to remove it right away, usually eating up their whole turn to do so, and getting a card out of their hand, so its basically a timewalk that does 2 damage as well.
Sure its not ideal if they remove it right away, you would rather it sticks around longer, but its not the end of the wolrd if they do and you still get good value out of it. It also means less removal for your other creatures. In a lot of cases I am perfectly ok with playing eidolon as a lightning rod.
So I know its not literally timewalk before someone calls me out, but you have to take the resources your opponent uses in dealing with it in consideration when evaluating it.
A huge part of burn is baiting your opponents. Similarly to playing around and/or into wasteland with PoP, its not always correct to just jam everything you've got. Some times its ok to run bolts and other instants straight into a counter to tap them down and let you resolve a vortex. Often times if the pace of the game allows it its correct to pass a turn or 2 doing nothing just so you can better overload their resources.
Whoever compared eidolon to standstill was definitely right. Some games you will want to jam it on turn 2 and race, but other times it makes for a great way to sit slow the game to a halt to let you refuel your hand.
Turns 1-3 in a burn are usually easy, but turns 4+ are where sequencing and managing both your own and your opponents resources matter a lot.
This is where it is important to know your opponents deck. Decks like U/R delver and U/W miracles don't have too hard of a time fetching basics, so you side PoP out, and still get the benefit of them playing around it. But against a deck with a greedier manabase, like Jund, or BUG you keep it in because its not as easy for them to just fetch basics.
Against those decks though you have to play around their wastelands, sometimes its ok to burn a low to no damage PoP just for the tempo gain when they waste their own lands. Other times its better to save it waiting for them to tap down.
So was I lol
I play like ***** on Modo, I've probably only played 25 or so games on it total and spend so much time worrying about miss clicks that I don't think through my plays enough. I need more practice with both the deck and modo itself. I have no idea how many times I have let a ninja of the deep hours through when I meant to prevent it.
I really want to give unearth a try though, it does sound like a great card in the deck, but I am not really sold on staggershock. It really feels too slow in this deck to me.
If you wouldn't mind PMing some of the bad decisions you saw I'd like to hear, but I probably knew they were bad at the time, and if you watch again feel free to post em in chat, I don't mind being called out. This is eggit BTW in case that isn't clear, new forums new name change.
And I punted 2 8-mans horribly. I'm not used to the mtgo interface and it makes me flustered into making stupid plays.
Maybe his humor isn't for me, I can understand that, but a good interviewer. Seriously?
This is basically how I feel, but I know a large portion of the community didn't like his content which may have been why he was sacked.
Am I eFamous yet?
Also the first time piloting the deck aside from 2 practice games. Seeing the deck called "GRUW" makes me think we need to splash unearth just so the name has the full impact. Although I guess "Grow" works too since you are growing your creatures with domain and enchantments.
Mezzel and _Tezzeret were the 2 delver decks I took loses too, and I think seijim2 might have been the burn deck. I also beat Xochipilli in round 1.
Not sure how that elves matchup is, he got a really fast combo game 1, but game 2 and 3 I had elecktrickery in my opening 7.
I'm also planning on streaming this deck when I can, probably doing another pre on saturday. http://www.twitch.tv/esporks
Mind posting your list and SB plan?
I think my biggest problem with delver is a SB plan, I don't really want to take anything out. Maybe the 3 drops just to play around counters better I guess.
6 etb fetches and 2 panoramas maybe. The deck can actually make use of colorless mana quite a bit, and they can still fetch color in a pinch.
I was bringing it against any deck I thought would either be a race, or where I would need to stabilize. It came in handy against delver, I'm not sure if I played against any other creature based strategies.
Its a great way to make a guy big enough they just can't deal with it, and its also a good way to be able to apply some pressure while building up defenses int he form of padding life.
There was also a point where he called my cards bad, yes wild nacatyl, brainstorm, and tribal flames are "bad cards", they definitely haven't proven themselves to be multi format all stars, and are much worse than the 10th power of reality acid.
Thats one reason I really like this deck, you get to play legacy staples at full power, its pretty awesome.
It sounds so crazy, but this deck can out grind jund. Jund players haven't adapted to that yet, the longer the game goes the more it swings in our favor which is so abnormal for jund.
Its the games where they get t1 thoughtsieze on your ramp, then drop a goyf and beat you down before you get to 6 mana that really hurt. I also don't feel like bob is that good against us. Yes its a good card, but once you put them on the backfoot they end up racing their own bob and the lifegain and plow modes of primal command both do some great work there.
I've won a few games from a jund player burning themselves with bob and trying to stabilize with a batterskull, I really hope you enjoy flipping batterskull to bob for the next 4 turns!
Game 1 I was able to get his only reality acid with a pridemage, he still got a 2 for one, but i was able to overrun him big beaters while he attempted to clog the board with sea gate oracles and wall of omens.
Game 2 was a major grind fest, I did get 2 reality acids with ray of revelation, but he eventually took the game.
Game 3 I went abundant growth > Presence, Growth > Aura Gnarlid > Rancor, Rancor. He didn't even let me swing before he went on his rant about my "5 color pile".
I don't think the matchup is good, I think I just got lucky and caught my opponent off guard.