With the seemingly "most powerful" cards in the set spoiled so far being uncounterable, I don't see how they're going to screw up standard. They'll make it more creature based, which sucks because its already almost entirely creature based. But it wont allow UW to dominate the format as it has been able to do since Caw.
I doubt modern is a big concern (the shockland reprints should provide enough agency for players with low bank rolls), but Legacy is definitely on R&D's mind. Things like Abrupt Decay ruin so many strategies in legacy its unbelievable, and the colors are usually the least played in the format, another healthy attribute.
What's also nice to see is the Uncounterable 3 drop 4/4 vanilla. He's just a dude, so that's not op, but he's a house in a format with equipments like Jitte and Swords, and his Dodecapod ability provides an excellent answer to the very archetype that got buffed: Loam Pox.
Abrupt Decay->Loam Pox/Rock
In modern, yeah AB is going straight into Jund and yeah it's going to bully Splinter Twin and alot of other decks. Is it too strong a card? Maybe.
Is it providing strength where it needed to be? Definitely.
seems to be precisely what BG zombies is starved for: 2 drops.
if you wait a turn you can have a very hard to kill 3 drop or if they waste removal on it you are clear to throw down the Messenger.
Again, this thing loves Gravecrawler and also loves Dreg Mangler at mid to late game. BG zombies looks to have a ton of new toys and it kinda sucks that you can't fit them all in a 60 card main.
Another possible use for this guy, probably after Gatecrash release, is Junk Reanimator. He can apply early pressure while tossing Griz into the yard, like Liliana 5-8.
as much as i believe whole heartedly that BG zombies will be a deck come rotation, i doubt this guy will be a part of the mainstream builds.
as stated, he's not hitting the table as more than a 4/4 or most 5/5, which is cool, but his abilities are too expensive :/
both lists are on the right track, however you each seem to be lacking certain things.
@ace1: the deck needs Cabal Therapy, it's a house with recyclable creatures.
innocent blood is good, however sometimes i've found instant speed removal is stronger like Diabolic Edict, especially in the Burn matchup.
High Priest isnt very good in standard, in legacy he will never get to do what he's supposed to and most decks will try very hard to keep your people off the board so if you ever have 4+ simultaneously you probably already won.
Bob is very good but also very squishy, i'd actually prefer Bitterblossom for a creature engine you can use to lock with Contamination out of the board. He is good though, so maybe the cards are better than endless dudes and the lifeloss :/
for changes i'd do: -2 High Priest, +1 Geralf's, +1 Blood Artist.
@Johanovich: you really dont have enough creatures and just about all your choices there arent strong cards. Lords are out right away, Marauder is a terrible card, Festering Goblin, while great vs Thalia and the like, isnt strong enough for competitive scenes. And you dont even have Gatekeeper if you're trying to do a "gate" approach
Carrion Feeder does so much work it's criminal not to include 4x. You need way more dudes. Bloodghast 4x, Bob/Bitterblossom 4x, Blood Artist maybe if you're going to machine gun route. Artist actually helps cut the bitterblossom lifeloss and turns it into a better win condition.
Props for Diabolic Intent, its a very good card but i doubt you want all four, it's meant to replace any one or two cards you cant run too many of, like Jitte, probably the best equipment in the history of the game, very strong, but not 2, you cant even play 2.
Nameless Inversion, while a very cool card, isnt going to do much. I get that its great vs elves, but really once they get a few guys down you either kill them all or they combo off and its over. Perish is needed in the board.
Ritual is a card i have always loved as it replaces lands and makes the deck faster, but i'm not sure it's worth it as a 4x, since you cant reasonably go t1: Ritual, Messenger. It will just get exiled or countered.
Phyrexian Tower, very cool, but you need DUDES.
Unholy Grotto, cute, possibly worth 1 or 2 slots.
I like the blasting station idea from Ace1's list, screw white, and screw red.
the Vendillion Clique vs Funeral Charm Situation sucks if you dont know your opponent's last card is Clique. If you do know, then the best option is to let them cast it and take you're Charm. Either way, you lose the Charm because if you cast it they will respond with Clique anyway, so if you just let them play it, you'll draw a card, which is better than having no cards.
Also, if you pass to them and they dont cast on your turn, now they'll draw another card and have 2 in hand. So now you can cast Charm all you want and they can still respond with Clique but you'll get the other card if its not also an instant.
About your list: I like Necroplasm since it's a reusable Keg effect and can eventually beat in for a few points, but it's awful slow at 3, id rather have Crucible and get more mileage out of my lands.
Other than that it looks pretty solid, I know some people prefer Funeral Charm to targeted discard because of the instant speed, but i run Bitterblossom so i've found Cabal Therapy to be more bang for the buck. Thats a slightly different list though.
Sideboard: Planar Void is not what you want. You need to recur Nether Spirit right? What you want is Leyline of the Void. It will come in uncounterable before t1 and will seriously ruin reanimator/dredges chances in the early game unless they have something to ans with and they usually dont run too many answers. If you dont run Spirit, and I dont particularly like it, you can use Planar Void because it's easy to cast at any point in the game, but if you dont begin the game with it in hand you'll likely lose to reanimator/dredge anyway, so leyline makes more sense by odds.
As for Powder Keg, I like that it wont hurt you're PW, but i personally like Ratchet Bomb becuase it also gets enchantments, like Land Tax and Exploration, its not a big difference but it could mean a game vs some decks. There's also perish, Engineered Plague and other hate to consider.
Pithing Needle is usually a 2x and so is Extirpate, to increase you're options like more Spinning Darkness vs Burn, or if you want to try out Bitterblossom as a win con, you can run Contamination which will definitively shut down alot of decks.
Okay!
I got a good reason to run Rituals. I played Burn and Goblins just now online, about 4 games each.
Nobody boarded.
i tried this list
2x Crucible
4x Contamination
4x Bitterblossom
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Dark Ritual
3x Innocent Blood
4x Smallpox
3x Liliana of the Veil
Ok, so i'm not saying this deck was built right or with the right numbers, but the Blossination combo is very good at shutting down mono red, since they have zero ways to deal.
I dont know if this is exciting for anyone else but it is for me because I know alot of Burn players and I always thought it was a near unwinnable match with Reid Pox.
The only way I got this down early enough was using Dark Ritual t1 or t2.
Once I did they all but packed it up. Gobs still has Aether Vial but kill spells can handle them one at a time.
idk the speed always feels worth it when I do get the T1 Liliana or Crucible into Wastelands, also it allows me to beat blue decks' counterspells with discard effects early on, then cast my power spells.
Ritual never gets countered because they always want to try and two for one you, assuming that someone playing a tier 2 deck isnt bright enough not to walk into FoW and Daze.
Yeah topdecking them late game sucks. It sucks to see Mox Diamond late game too and thats still a good piece of fixing.
I've also been in situations where i have to keep my opponent at 2or less lands and that usually means i'm at 2 or less lands, so getting a Lili or even a cheaper Tombstalker through that is often a win.
haha "Blossination".
5 CIPT lands seem like it would cause problems. haha
yea I dont play with Salvages for that reason, I just picked up a crucible to try that out. I dont think you need Loam for recursion to work, yea its nice but adding Green makes Ritual less powerful (useless, actually) and the manabase is meh...plus i dont feel like spending craptons on Bayous and Tarmogoyf and Loam, id rather just play a deck that's cheaper and screws all that.
and hey, all those dopey combo decks call their tech dumb little names so i did a Brangelina thing for gigs
unless im totally wrong and that's very possible, isnt Contamination combo pointless with The Rack? if they cant play spells their hand will fill up, not shrink, so how does rack win that game?
not that you'd lose once you have "Blossination" online (is that too lame? _-_) anyway.
as far as Acclimation's decklist, id think you always need Dark Ritual to compete with the speed of other decks.
Also, i think you're underusing your land slots. Salvage is cool if you're doing something in addition to Ghast, like Syphon life or Raven's Crime, but those both seem sub-optimal.
I mean, you could have Wastelands, Factories, a Maze, Bojuka Bogs, all make crappy matches better.
Ofcourse then you need about 3 Urborgs, so it makes you more vulnerable to opponent Wastelands, and Stifle can mess up your Wastelands, but Cabal Therapy is getting to be a better and better target discard spell with all the dudes. EDIT: I realize that's a totally disjointed thought, but i keep recalling a game where I Cabal Therapy'd 3 Stifle from a RUG delver hand and the guy scooped to my Wastelands.
only deck i see being very hard to beat game 1 is going 2nd and seeing the early Quasali Pridemage coming down and shooting you're Blossom before you get to Contamination.
Blossom is a great wincon, im just not sure if Trinisphere/Nether Void is better than Contamination or what?
Oh and i'm definitely playing Urami, just picked one up this weekend for free, few people even know it exists or that they had it in their binders :rolleyes:.
Bloodghast is way better in Loam, Spirit is better in LD Pox but i personally hate them both since there's no way to protect them once theyr in play, so i'd say Bitterblossom all day
i don't agree with killing them off altogether but blue still has draw...oh wait
well, ok blue still has creatures...:tongue: umm, i mean, well, ok blue has "Jace the- oh forget it sorry bro, blue is the new red
With the seemingly "most powerful" cards in the set spoiled so far being uncounterable, I don't see how they're going to screw up standard. They'll make it more creature based, which sucks because its already almost entirely creature based. But it wont allow UW to dominate the format as it has been able to do since Caw.
I doubt modern is a big concern (the shockland reprints should provide enough agency for players with low bank rolls), but Legacy is definitely on R&D's mind. Things like Abrupt Decay ruin so many strategies in legacy its unbelievable, and the colors are usually the least played in the format, another healthy attribute.
What's also nice to see is the Uncounterable 3 drop 4/4 vanilla. He's just a dude, so that's not op, but he's a house in a format with equipments like Jitte and Swords, and his Dodecapod ability provides an excellent answer to the very archetype that got buffed: Loam Pox.
Abrupt Decay->Loam Pox/Rock
In modern, yeah AB is going straight into Jund and yeah it's going to bully Splinter Twin and alot of other decks. Is it too strong a card? Maybe.
Is it providing strength where it needed to be? Definitely.
the Rock is back?
she doesn't seem to fit into any existing archetypes, but there could easily be a big Jund deck waiting to abuse the hell out of things like this
i really dont know if GB > RB at this point, RB has the answers to PWs now but GB has a seemingly endless army of monsters
if you wait a turn you can have a very hard to kill 3 drop or if they waste removal on it you are clear to throw down the Messenger.
Again, this thing loves Gravecrawler and also loves Dreg Mangler at mid to late game. BG zombies looks to have a ton of new toys and it kinda sucks that you can't fit them all in a 60 card main.
Another possible use for this guy, probably after Gatecrash release, is Junk Reanimator. He can apply early pressure while tossing Griz into the yard, like Liliana 5-8.
Love this thing, thank you wizards.
i just want to point out that the scavenge mechanic works against undying, and both abilities are equally vulnerable to GY hate.
had golgari gotten something outside the yard to work with zombies, i think the deck would be too epic.
still waiting to see what Rakdos brings to the table
as stated, he's not hitting the table as more than a 4/4 or most 5/5, which is cool, but his abilities are too expensive :/
then again i could be wrong
@ace1: the deck needs Cabal Therapy, it's a house with recyclable creatures.
innocent blood is good, however sometimes i've found instant speed removal is stronger like Diabolic Edict, especially in the Burn matchup.
High Priest isnt very good in standard, in legacy he will never get to do what he's supposed to and most decks will try very hard to keep your people off the board so if you ever have 4+ simultaneously you probably already won.
Bob is very good but also very squishy, i'd actually prefer Bitterblossom for a creature engine you can use to lock with Contamination out of the board. He is good though, so maybe the cards are better than endless dudes and the lifeloss :/
for changes i'd do: -2 High Priest, +1 Geralf's, +1 Blood Artist.
@Johanovich: you really dont have enough creatures and just about all your choices there arent strong cards. Lords are out right away, Marauder is a terrible card, Festering Goblin, while great vs Thalia and the like, isnt strong enough for competitive scenes. And you dont even have Gatekeeper if you're trying to do a "gate" approach
Carrion Feeder does so much work it's criminal not to include 4x. You need way more dudes. Bloodghast 4x, Bob/Bitterblossom 4x, Blood Artist maybe if you're going to machine gun route. Artist actually helps cut the bitterblossom lifeloss and turns it into a better win condition.
Props for Diabolic Intent, its a very good card but i doubt you want all four, it's meant to replace any one or two cards you cant run too many of, like Jitte, probably the best equipment in the history of the game, very strong, but not 2, you cant even play 2.
Nameless Inversion, while a very cool card, isnt going to do much. I get that its great vs elves, but really once they get a few guys down you either kill them all or they combo off and its over. Perish is needed in the board.
Ritual is a card i have always loved as it replaces lands and makes the deck faster, but i'm not sure it's worth it as a 4x, since you cant reasonably go t1: Ritual, Messenger. It will just get exiled or countered.
Phyrexian Tower, very cool, but you need DUDES.
Unholy Grotto, cute, possibly worth 1 or 2 slots.
I like the blasting station idea from Ace1's list, screw white, and screw red.
the Vendillion Clique vs Funeral Charm Situation sucks if you dont know your opponent's last card is Clique. If you do know, then the best option is to let them cast it and take you're Charm. Either way, you lose the Charm because if you cast it they will respond with Clique anyway, so if you just let them play it, you'll draw a card, which is better than having no cards.
Also, if you pass to them and they dont cast on your turn, now they'll draw another card and have 2 in hand. So now you can cast Charm all you want and they can still respond with Clique but you'll get the other card if its not also an instant.
About your list: I like Necroplasm since it's a reusable Keg effect and can eventually beat in for a few points, but it's awful slow at 3, id rather have Crucible and get more mileage out of my lands.
Other than that it looks pretty solid, I know some people prefer Funeral Charm to targeted discard because of the instant speed, but i run Bitterblossom so i've found Cabal Therapy to be more bang for the buck. Thats a slightly different list though.
Sideboard: Planar Void is not what you want. You need to recur Nether Spirit right? What you want is Leyline of the Void. It will come in uncounterable before t1 and will seriously ruin reanimator/dredges chances in the early game unless they have something to ans with and they usually dont run too many answers. If you dont run Spirit, and I dont particularly like it, you can use Planar Void because it's easy to cast at any point in the game, but if you dont begin the game with it in hand you'll likely lose to reanimator/dredge anyway, so leyline makes more sense by odds.
As for Powder Keg, I like that it wont hurt you're PW, but i personally like Ratchet Bomb becuase it also gets enchantments, like Land Tax and Exploration, its not a big difference but it could mean a game vs some decks. There's also perish, Engineered Plague and other hate to consider.
Pithing Needle is usually a 2x and so is Extirpate, to increase you're options like more Spinning Darkness vs Burn, or if you want to try out Bitterblossom as a win con, you can run Contamination which will definitively shut down alot of decks.
just some suggestions, hope they help
and Spinning Darkness could work to keep you alive.
instant speed removal is rough but definitely doable in this deck, Diabolic Edict for one, might work
I got a good reason to run Rituals. I played Burn and Goblins just now online, about 4 games each.
Nobody boarded.
i tried this list
2x Crucible
4x Contamination
4x Bitterblossom
4x Hymn to Tourach
2x Cabal Therapy
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Dark Ritual
3x Innocent Blood
4x Smallpox
3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Nether Spirit
Lands
2x Bojuka Bog
4x Mishra's Factory
4x Wasteland
3x Urborg
12x Swamp
Sideboard:
Crap, needs work
Ok, so i'm not saying this deck was built right or with the right numbers, but the Blossination combo is very good at shutting down mono red, since they have zero ways to deal.
I dont know if this is exciting for anyone else but it is for me because I know alot of Burn players and I always thought it was a near unwinnable match with Reid Pox.
The only way I got this down early enough was using Dark Ritual t1 or t2.
Once I did they all but packed it up. Gobs still has Aether Vial but kill spells can handle them one at a time.
Ritual never gets countered because they always want to try and two for one you, assuming that someone playing a tier 2 deck isnt bright enough not to walk into FoW and Daze.
Yeah topdecking them late game sucks. It sucks to see Mox Diamond late game too and thats still a good piece of fixing.
I've also been in situations where i have to keep my opponent at 2or less lands and that usually means i'm at 2 or less lands, so getting a Lili or even a cheaper Tombstalker through that is often a win.
yea I dont play with Salvages for that reason, I just picked up a crucible to try that out. I dont think you need Loam for recursion to work, yea its nice but adding Green makes Ritual less powerful (useless, actually) and the manabase is meh...plus i dont feel like spending craptons on Bayous and Tarmogoyf and Loam, id rather just play a deck that's cheaper and screws all that.
and hey, all those dopey combo decks call their tech dumb little names so i did a Brangelina thing for gigs
not that you'd lose once you have "Blossination" online (is that too lame? _-_) anyway.
as far as Acclimation's decklist, id think you always need Dark Ritual to compete with the speed of other decks.
Also, i think you're underusing your land slots. Salvage is cool if you're doing something in addition to Ghast, like Syphon life or Raven's Crime, but those both seem sub-optimal.
I mean, you could have Wastelands, Factories, a Maze, Bojuka Bogs, all make crappy matches better.
Ofcourse then you need about 3 Urborgs, so it makes you more vulnerable to opponent Wastelands, and Stifle can mess up your Wastelands, but Cabal Therapy is getting to be a better and better target discard spell with all the dudes. EDIT: I realize that's a totally disjointed thought, but i keep recalling a game where I Cabal Therapy'd 3 Stifle from a RUG delver hand and the guy scooped to my Wastelands.
only deck i see being very hard to beat game 1 is going 2nd and seeing the early Quasali Pridemage coming down and shooting you're Blossom before you get to Contamination.
Blossom is a great wincon, im just not sure if Trinisphere/Nether Void is better than Contamination or what?
Oh and i'm definitely playing Urami, just picked one up this weekend for free, few people even know it exists or that they had it in their binders :rolleyes:.
pox(es)